AL68 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 My tyres are 6 years old and were considered roadworthy by the MOT tester this week. I can see some slight crazing on the walls and front wheel tread is perhaps 3 or 4 mm. Rear tyres have considerably more tread and do not have the crazing on the wall. They are Michelin Camper. I intend to replace the 2 front with the same make and monitor the rear tyres. Best price I can find is £129 at 'bestbuytyres.co.uk'. Anyone know of anything better. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Try these which can be fitted locally. http://www.blackcircles.com/order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 New tyres should go on the rear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Hi. Depends what you mean by price, is this the basic price of the tyre, or the final price that you pay.I have just had replacement Miichelin Agilis camping 215/70R15C 109Q tyres from BMTR at Coleshill, price per tyre.£123 20, wheel balance. £4.47,old casing disposal. £1.49,vat £25 .85. Total paid per tyre, £155. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 PS. I was offered cheaper Hankook tyres, but for the same load capacity they would have been wider profile tyres. There is not enough clearance against the rear shock absorbers on my Hymer for wider tyres. 8-) Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
How Much Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 thebishbus - 2011-04-09 10:47 PM Hi. Depends what you mean by price, is this the basic price of the tyre, or the final price that you pay.I have just had replacement Miichelin Agilis camping 215/70R15C 109Q tyres from BMTR at Coleshill, price per tyre.£123 20, wheel balance. £4.47,old casing disposal. £1.49,vat £25 .85. Total paid per tyre, £155. Brian B.Old casing disposal?? They charge for binning the old tyres now? The cheeky gits! It's like a cafe charging extra to wash the pots - it should all be in with the price quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francisgraham Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 How Much??????? - 2011-04-10 6:20 PM thebishbus - 2011-04-09 10:47 PM Hi. Depends what you mean by price, is this the basic price of the tyre, or the final price that you pay.I have just had replacement Miichelin Agilis camping 215/70R15C 109Q tyres from BMTR at Coleshill, price per tyre.£123 20, wheel balance. £4.47,old casing disposal. £1.49,vat £25 .85. Total paid per tyre, £155. Brian B.Old casing disposal?? They charge for binning the old tyres now? The cheeky gits! It's like a cafe charging extra to wash the pots - it should all be in with the price quoted. Why do people automatically think the worst? They are not 'cheeky gits' at all. They have to pay to have them disposed of and what does it matter how it's charged, you still have to pay? I've just ordered four winter tyres to go on four new wheels. I'm not being caught out again if it snows. I won't have any old tyres to dispose of so, if a tyre price included disposal, I'd be paying for something that I don't need! As long as the prices are quoted upfront then we have no cause whatsoever for complaint. There's no need to pay the £1.49 if you think it unfair. You are perfectly free to dispose of them yourself if you like. A cafe has to wash its pots but a tyre dealer may well sell tyres without fitting them, he may well sell tyres and not have any to dispose of any old ones, so what's wrong with these items being costed separately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
How Much Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 francisgraham - 2011-04-10 6:40 PM How Much??????? - 2011-04-10 6:20 PM thebishbus - 2011-04-09 10:47 PM Hi. Depends what you mean by price, is this the basic price of the tyre, or the final price that you pay.I have just had replacement Miichelin Agilis camping 215/70R15C 109Q tyres from BMTR at Coleshill, price per tyre.£123 20, wheel balance. £4.47,old casing disposal. £1.49,vat £25 .85. Total paid per tyre, £155. Brian B.Old casing disposal?? They charge for binning the old tyres now? The cheeky gits! It's like a cafe charging extra to wash the pots - it should all be in with the price quoted. Why do people automatically think the worst? They are not 'cheeky gits' at all. They have to pay to have them disposed of and what does it matter how it's charged, you still have to pay? I've just ordered four winter tyres to go on four new wheels. I'm not being caught out again if it snows. I won't have any old tyres to dispose of so, if a tyre price included disposal, I'd be paying for something that I don't need! As long as the prices are quoted upfront then we have no cause whatsoever for complaint. There's no need to pay the £1.49 if you think it unfair. You are perfectly free to dispose of them yourself if you like. A cafe has to wash its pots but a tyre dealer may well sell tyres without fitting them, he may well sell tyres and not have any to dispose of any old ones, so what's wrong with these items being costed separately? What have they been doing with them before jumping on the eco bandwagon, now they are being kept an eye on? Getting rid for free somewhere, (country lane/beck etc?) or still having to pay? If so, why wasnt it a separate charge before then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francisgraham Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 How Much??????? - 2011-04-10 7:47 PM francisgraham - 2011-04-10 6:40 PM How Much??????? - 2011-04-10 6:20 PM thebishbus - 2011-04-09 10:47 PM Hi. Depends what you mean by price, is this the basic price of the tyre, or the final price that you pay.I have just had replacement Miichelin Agilis camping 215/70R15C 109Q tyres from BMTR at Coleshill, price per tyre.£123 20, wheel balance. £4.47,old casing disposal. £1.49,vat £25 .85. Total paid per tyre, £155. Brian B.Old casing disposal?? They charge for binning the old tyres now? The cheeky gits! It's like a cafe charging extra to wash the pots - it should all be in with the price quoted. Why do people automatically think the worst? They are not 'cheeky gits' at all. They have to pay to have them disposed of and what does it matter how it's charged, you still have to pay? I've just ordered four winter tyres to go on four new wheels. I'm not being caught out again if it snows. I won't have any old tyres to dispose of so, if a tyre price included disposal, I'd be paying for something that I don't need! As long as the prices are quoted upfront then we have no cause whatsoever for complaint. There's no need to pay the £1.49 if you think it unfair. You are perfectly free to dispose of them yourself if you like. A cafe has to wash its pots but a tyre dealer may well sell tyres without fitting them, he may well sell tyres and not have any to dispose of any old ones, so what's wrong with these items being costed separately? What have they been doing with them before jumping on the eco bandwagon, now they are being kept an eye on? Getting rid for free somewhere, (country lane/beck etc?) or still having to pay? If so, why wasnt it a separate charge before then? I can assure you that it's not tyre dealers who are jumping on any eco bandwagon! You may not have noticed but there's a much greater emphasis now on the environment and tyres are nasty things to dispose of. Are you really suggesting that reputable dealers dump them in lanes? My retailer has to pay a company to come along and pick up his old tyres and they have to be disposed of properly. Just because something didn't happen ten years ago doesn't mean that it can remain the same forever. We now have several wheelie bins where once we had one and that's just one example of the changes. But that's not really the point is it? You said dealers are 'cheeky gits' and that this charge should be included in the price. I simply pointed out why this is neither practicable or fair. You seemed to have simply jumped to a conclusion about this without giving it any real thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL68 Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 jhorsf - 2011-04-09 10:38 PM New tyres should go on the rear Why do you think that? I always feel that I want the front end to be firmly fixed on the road and new tyres should be better in this respect; deep tread, new casing, front wheel drive etc. Had thought that if I moved the old tyres to the front I could get some wear out of them before replacing next year. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL68 Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 thebishbus - 2011-04-09 10:47 PM Hi. Depends what you mean by price, is this the basic price of the tyre, or the final price that you pay.I have just had replacement Miichelin Agilis camping 215/70R15C 109Q tyres from BMTR at Coleshill, price per tyre.£123 20, wheel balance. £4.47,old casing disposal. £1.49,vat £25 .85. Total paid per tyre, £155. Brian B. I believe it's all inclusive and if so looks a good price - £129 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francisgraham Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 AL68 - 2011-04-11 8:42 AM jhorsf - 2011-04-09 10:38 PM New tyres should go on the rear Why do you think that? I always feel that I want the front end to be firmly fixed on the road and new tyres should be better in this respect; deep tread, new casing, front wheel drive etc. Had thought that if I moved the old tyres to the front I could get some wear out of them before replacing next year. thanks I'm sorry, but jhorsf is right. It is the rear end of a car that will always break first and there is ample evidence that new tyres should always go on the rear, in fact all the tyre manufacturers will recommend this. Type 'new tyres on rear' into Google and you'll see what I mean. Here's one example: http://www.etyres.co.uk/flashmovies/new-tyres-rear-etyres.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL68 Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 francisgraham - 2011-04-11 8:56 AM AL68 - 2011-04-11 8:42 AM jhorsf - 2011-04-09 10:38 PM New tyres should go on the rear Why do you think that? I always feel that I want the front end to be firmly fixed on the road and new tyres should be better in this respect; deep tread, new casing, front wheel drive etc. Had thought that if I moved the old tyres to the front I could get some wear out of them before replacing next year. thanks I'm sorry, but jhorsf is right. It is the rear end of a car that will always break first and there is ample evidence that new tyres should always go on the rear, in fact all the tyre manufacturers will recommend this. Type 'new tyres on rear' into Google and you'll see what I mean. Here's one example: http://www.etyres.co.uk/flashmovies/new-tyres-rear-etyres.htm No need to be sorry, gives me another reason for putting the old on the front. The video link is convincing on the breakaway while cornering in wet conditions. I wonder what happens in a straight line stop in the wet, will have a search as you suggested. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 AL68 - 2011-04-11 8:42 AM jhorsf - 2011-04-09 10:38 PM New tyres should go on the rear Why do you think that? I always feel that I want the front end to be firmly fixed on the road and new tyres should be better in this respect; deep tread, new casing, front wheel drive etc. Had thought that if I moved the old tyres to the front I could get some wear out of them before replacing next year. thanks As all your motorhome's Michelin XC Camping tyres are 6 years old, it could be argued that you should replace them all purely on the basis of their age (never mind the fact that two of the tyres are showing visible signs of degradation.) If you aren't prepared to do this and decide to replace just two of the four tyres, then it is generally recommended that you fit the new pair of tyres to the rear axle. This is simply because, if grip is lost while driving, it's considered preferable that the front tyres lose grip before the rear. The XC Camping pattern had a (well deserved) reputation for poor wet weather grip. With part-worn, 6-year-old XC Camping tyres on your motorhome's rear axle and brand-new Michelin tyres on the front axle, unless your vehicle has ABS it's pretty much inevitable that heavy braking on a wet road will lock the back wheels well before the fronts. And, if this happens while the vehicle is cornering quickly, then the resultant skid will be far from amusing. I'm sympathetic to your thinking as I was in much the same position last month with my 2005 Hobby. I considered moving the rear tyres (which still had plenty of 'meat' on them) to the front axle and fitting a pair of new tyres to the rear axle, but eventually decided to replace all four tyres. As the Hobby's original tyres had lasted 6 years, it seemed reasonable to assume that the next set would last equally long. It's unlikely that I shall still have the Hobby in 6 years time, so I'd rather have the benefit of new tyres all-round now, rather than hang on for one or (at most) two years just to eke out some more wear from the original tyres and then have to replace them before I dispose of the vehicle. Besides which, the local garage from which I bought the new tyres would fit/balance them free if I bought four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL68 Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 AL68 - 2011-04-11 8:44 AM thebishbus - 2011-04-09 10:47 PM Hi. Depends what you mean by price, is this the basic price of the tyre, or the final price that you pay.I have just had replacement Miichelin Agilis camping 215/70R15C 109Q tyres from BMTR at Coleshill, price per tyre.£123 20, wheel balance. £4.47,old casing disposal. £1.49,vat £25 .85. Total paid per tyre, £155. Brian B. I believe it's all inclusive and if so looks a good price - £129 Only one problem, they are not in stock and they can't get them. Michelin are not able to supply at the moment!!!! Same story with Continental. Good job it's not an emergency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dikyenfo Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 I put Federals on the Iveco and they were great and dont forget if you have the room go up to 225 wide as the rim is the same. I would have no problem fitting them to my MH next yesr as will be 5 years old and I can't wait to get rid of the Agulis noisy hard and all the grip of a sunday vicar. Federals 50 quid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 This is the age-old question "Should I replace 'camping-car' tyres on a like-for-like basis, or choose to fit cheaper 'white van' tyres instead?" There are only three European manufacturers of 'camping-car' tyres - Michelin ("Agilis Camping"), Continental ("VancoCamper") and Pirelli ("Chrono Camper"). These tyre patterns specifically target the motorhome market and are advertised as having particular benefits for motorhome usage. Esssentially, they all claim to have a more rugged construction than an equivalent 'white van' tyre and (as a consequence) are sold at a premium price. If it is felt that 'white van' tyres will be perfectly adequate for a motorhome, then there is normally plenty of choice and significant financial economies can be achieved. The following link shows a range of 215/70 R15C tyres, many of which have the same 109 load-index as a 215/70 R15C 'camping-car' tyre from Michelin, Continental or Pirelli. Some of these tyres can be bought for under half the asking-price of the specialised Michelin/Continental/Pirelli products. http://www.elitedirect.com/Tyres/Tyres-By-Size.php?section=215&profile=70&rim=15 The Hankook brand has a good reputation and is fitted by Ford as orignal equipment. The RA08 pattern is available in 215/70 R15C 109 size and should cost under £90. That would probably be my choice if I was on a tight budget. (If 'white van' tyres are chosen as replacements for 'camping-car' tyres, then you need to be careful not to over-inflate the new tyres beyond their design maximum pressure.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 dikyenfo - 2011-04-11 12:03 PM I put Federals on the Iveco and they were great and dont forget if you have the room go up to 225 wide as the rim is the same.. Why fit 225s when 215s are specified and the original fitment - confirmed on the sticker on the door jamb? Firstly, it'll be classified as a modification about which you should inform your insurance company: the first thing an insurance assessor will check following any accident is that the tyres are to specification. Secondly, you will (at the same 75% profile) have raised your overall gearing - including that of reverse gear, when the world and his wife are tyring to lower it.. Stick with 215s IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Steve928 - 2011-04-12 6:07 PM dikyenfo - 2011-04-11 12:03 PM I put Federals on the Iveco and they were great and dont forget if you have the room go up to 225 wide as the rim is the same.. Why fit 225s when 215s are specified and the original fitment - confirmed on the sticker on the door jamb? Firstly, it'll be classified as a modification about which you should inform your insurance company: the first thing an insurance assessor will check following any accident is that the tyres are to specification. Secondly, you will (at the same 75% profile) have raised your overall gearing - including that of reverse gear, when the world and his wife are tyring to lower it.. Stick with 215s IMHO. Replacing a Michelin XC Camping 215/70 R15C 109 tyre with (say) a Federal MS-357 225/70 R15C 112 tyre would provide an increase in potential axle-load-carrying capability of around 9% (2060kg to 2240kg). The increase in overall gearing would be about 2%, which is probably small enough not to be significant. A major snag with replacing genuine 'camping-car' tyres with 'white van' tyres is that the former tyres are claimed to have an (unspecified) higher tolerance of overloading than the latter tyres. Basically, the camping-car tyre is claimed to be designed to handle an axle-load higher than its sidewall-marked load index. Michelin used to advise that their 8-ply rated camping-car tyres offered an equivalent load-carrying performance to a 10-ply rated tyre. This implied that a Michelin XC Camping tyre with a marked load-index of 109 would, in practice, be able to cope with loadings that would otherwise require a tyre with a load-index of at least 112. Years ago, when the German motorhome magazine Pro Mobil carried out a comparative tyre test, XC Camping was the only specialised 'camping-car' tyre then marketed. Consequently, the test involved Michelin's XC Camping (8-ply rated) being compared with 10-ply rated tyres from other manufacturers. Although Continental, Michelin and Pirelli all make 'camping-car' tyres nowadays, the question still remains as to whether or not, if you swap from a 'camping-car' tyre to a 'white van' tyre (like a Federal , Hankook, etc.) on a like-for-like basis regarding size and ply-rating, you are in fact losing the load-carrying safety margin that the camping-car tyre is claimed to have. To retain that safety margin you should probably opt for an equivalent-size tyre with a higher ply-rating. However, as far as I'm aware, there is no 215/70 R15C tyre currently marketed with a higher ply-rating than 8 or a higher load index than 109. Having said all this, unless a motorhome is regularly driven with an axle loading at (or above!) its tyres' stated maximum load-carrying limit, there seems little advantage in altering tyre width just to gain potential extra load-carrying capacity that you won't be exploiting. If you are pushing your luck regarding axle overload, you might be better advised to stick with the 'correct' size of camping-car tyres for your vehicle as such tyres are designed to tolerate unkind treatment.. Occasionally it may be unavoidable to increase the tyre width when a motorhome's chassis is 'uprated' to gain extra payload and, in fact, a need to move from 215/70 R15C to 225/70 R15C has been mentioned before on this forum in such cases. If I remember correctly, the usual ploy has been to put the wider tyres only on the rear axle and, as the motorhomes involved have always been SEVEL-based and FWD, this doesn't affect the overall gearing/speedometer-readout. Presumably, when the chassis is uprated, the motorhome owner will have advised his/her insurance provider and the change in tyre size will have been mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy mccord Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Why would increasing the width of your tyre increase the overall gearing by 2%, I can understand increasing the sidewall from 70-80 would increase your rolling diameter but not your sidewall derek? regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 francisgraham - 2011-04-11 8:56 AM AL68 - 2011-04-11 8:42 AM jhorsf - 2011-04-09 10:38 PM New tyres should go on the rear Why do you think that? I always feel that I want the front end to be firmly fixed on the road and new tyres should be better in this respect; deep tread, new casing, front wheel drive etc. Had thought that if I moved the old tyres to the front I could get some wear out of them before replacing next year. thanks I'm sorry, but jhorsf is right. It is the rear end of a car that will always break first and there is ample evidence that new tyres should always go on the rear, in fact all the tyre manufacturers will recommend this. Type 'new tyres on rear' into Google and you'll see what I mean. Here's one example: http://www.etyres.co.uk/flashmovies/new-tyres-rear-etyres.htm it isn't that the rear will always break first in theory at least you get feedback through the steering and so will be aware of any front end slippage in time to make the necessary adjustment there is no such feedback loop from the rear well - not until your rear end's overtaking your front end anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I have made remarks on this before, watch most motoring progs and see the drivers going round bends with the tail end out in complete control, Tif last week on ice in 5th gear.if the front goes out, tough. But on here we are talking heavy rear end commercial vehicles costing many £000s of our own money, do we really drive like that?, in bad conditions, how many times have we had the back slide out, I have never had this happen and yet this year in France and Spain I lost traction on both wet and dry steep hills in my motor home . Back to cars, many have different size tyres on the front to the back, what then?, No lets let common sense come first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tp002c784tp002c784tp Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 AL68 - 2011-04-11 8:42 AM jhorsf - 2011-04-09 10:38 PM New tyres should go on the rear Why do you think that? I always feel that I want the front end to be firmly fixed on the road and new tyres should be better in this respect; deep tread, new casing, front wheel drive etc. Had thought that if I moved the old tyres to the front I could get some wear out of them before replacing next year. thanks I was always taught you should have your good tyres on the front, reasons being if you have a blow out on the rear it's easier to control than a front blow out another way of thinking Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 tp002c784tp002c784tp - 2011-04-13 7:46 PM AL68 - 2011-04-11 8:42 AM jhorsf - 2011-04-09 10:38 PM New tyres should go on the rear Why do you think that? I always feel that I want the front end to be firmly fixed on the road and new tyres should be better in this respect; deep tread, new casing, front wheel drive etc. Had thought that if I moved the old tyres to the front I could get some wear out of them before replacing next year. thanks I was always taught you should have your good tyres on the front, reasons being if you have a blow out on the rear it's easier to control than a front blow out another way of thinking Terry My sentiments to Terry. after 40 odd yrs driving virtually everything from Trucks to Mopeds and having 3 front wheel blowouts on Trucks (not good for your health, especially the heart) I feel that I can handle most of what happens at the back, It's the front that's the big problem. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 andy mccord - 2011-04-13 12:15 PM Why would increasing the width of your tyre increase the overall gearing by 2%, I can understand increasing the sidewall from 70-80 would increase your rolling diameter but not your sidewall derek? regards Andy A tyre's profile has its 'height' expressed as a percentage of its width. Increasing the width but not altering the profile will automatically mean that the tyre's height increases and, hence, its rolling circumference and (if the tyres are on the vehicle's driven wheels) the overall gearing will also increase. As an example, Michelin quotes a rolling circumference (RC) of 2070mm for a 215/70 R15C XC Camping tyre. The RC for Michelin 225/70 R15C tyres of similar vintage is given as 2112mm, about 2% greater. It seems reasonable to assume that the RC for a Federal 225/70 R15C tyre would be similar to that of Michelin's equivalent. For a more radical example, Michelin quotes an RC of 1985mm for a 195/70 R15C tyre. As I stated above, the RC of a Michelin 225/70 R15C tyre is 2112mm. The latter RC is 6.4% greater than the former, even though the wheel diameter (15") and profile (70% of width) are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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