oldlowie Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Just peeling off at a tangent from another thread. It seems that down-sizing is a 'good thing', according to a couple of posters (myself included). My own experience - we went to a local dealer for some 'bits' for our coach-built Chausson, and Mrs O saw the PVC that she could live in (I'd been keeping on for a year or more about a smaller 'van). Did the business, then went home and started to empty out the coach-built - bloody hell!!! There was a MASSIVE pile of kit taking up a quarter of our garage 8-) - where the hell do we put all this when we pick up the PVC? Truth was, we did a few trips in the new 'van - Peugeot 2.2 with 6-speed 'box - superb driving experience, just like a car - and found that the massive pile of kit was still in the garage, and we hadn't missed any of it :$ Anyone had a similar experience? Or have you down-sized and entered a world of regret and recrimination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 when I started thinking about this last year and chatted about the subject on here the consensus was unsurprisingly from a motorhome forum that I would regret it.....I did the homework, visited Dusseldorf show and came away with a good idea of what I wanted. Sunday night we spent our last night in our Euramobil on a German Aire, even then I was thinking of pulling out of deal, and was I doing the right thing :-S Well we have spent 3 days in the new Adria so far, and we are both over the moon with our decision. layout is identical to our bigger coachbuilt. finish with the dark wood etc....very attractive, generally a very comfortable and well thought out vehicle. It drives impeccably, fuel consumption a lot better, reverses fine. just so much nicer on the road then a large coachbuilt. So for us, so far so good, while I understand not right for everyone, definitely a good move for us. Looking forward to a month away to Italy/Croatia this summer, and some long weekends before hand. Plus getting more use out of what is essentially a more multi purpose vehicle, in comparison to a hulking great Coachbuilt lol :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 We were unhappy with layout of our last coachbuilt (I know, we made a mistake despite 22 years experience of choosing layouts!) and we wanted something smaller. We got our PVC on 3 March - Autocruise Rhythm on Pug 2.2 6 speed, and love it.. Just like a big car to drive and even with the engine still tight we're getting about 33/34mpg. Downsides? Well all vans are compromises to some extent so here are our initial fears and our actual experience having spent about 15 nights in van so far 1. Waeco 12v compressor fridge might be noisy and eat up our battery capacity in no time - only 100aH - Fridge hums a bit but not an issue. I turn it down at night just in case and it maintains temp within safe zone. Uses about 5 - 6 amps whilst cooling fridge down. I've not timed exactly how long it takes to cool down but guesstimate its less than 20 minutes. Over 8 hours we seemed to average 2aH so I fitted an 80w solar panel and experience after 3 days with no EHU was battery stayed in good state - never dropped below 12v on load. During day only 30 minutes driving so alternator not putting too much into battery. I would prefer a gas option but in reality a perfectly acceptable compromise. 2. Storage space - we carefully audited everything we took in old van and what a load of unnecessary junk! I fitted shelves in 3 of the overhead lockers and combined with 'the audit' we have all the space we need. I had to fit a cycle rack on back door as we no longer have a garage but thats not a problem. Overall absolutely no regrets. It suits us, but everybody has different needs and compromises to live with. Arthur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 I haven't downsized yet but it is on the cards, I have a Hymer B694 tag axle 4500 kgs and I love it but my wife wants to go to a smaller van and we have been looking around, it seems like a huge decision to make as we are in our van more than we are home, doing 6 month tours etc and we carry everything but the kitchen sink as they say, Any way I guess the right van will come up eventually, I must have a fixed bed and seperate shower , top of my want list as I have that now, most vans we have looked at with a layout I could live with are over 3-5 tonnes and if I change I want to keep below 3-5 tonnes as in four years I will be 70 and don't want the hassle of Medicals to keep my licence and don't want to have to change again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryW Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 We have been recently been down and back up again. We down sized to Globecar Trendscout and last summer had a fantastic time touring Italy plus 8 other countries, 4,500 miles in total. We got on well with and found we could load everything, though the big comfortable chairs had to travel on the be. In our case we found the small cooking space a problem, not that we cook much inside in the summer but it was always a tight squeeze past hot pans and pots. It was a case of one sits while one works (I soon got the hang of that!) In the end we decided to move back up so we would have more room for the winter nights in Spain. Something we have not done yet but thought the PVC would have been a little small for long dark evenings. As to regrets: I never regret a decision made only ones not made. In short both worked for us though she prefers more space. One last comment the PVC was on a 140 BHP Ford and I nearly burnt the clutch out several occasions trying to avoid judder in reverse, after one bad case in southern France the smell of hot clutch was with us for the next 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 I think the Ford a tad to narrow to be practical...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryW Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 JudgeMental - 2011-04-16 11:58 AMI think the Ford a tad to narrow to be practical...... I agree, I found it difficult to get my girth between the front seats but it did let us see the inside of a few medieval Italian villages from up close and the MPG was exceptional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David B Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 We have a 2005 Autosleepers Nuevo ES - the one with 4 belted seats and berth over cab and 5.5m long. We make up the beds (as 2 singles in the lounge) and use the large over cab area for storage (with the mattress removed). All the bedding, reclining chairs, outside table and lots of other (light) clobber go up there as in the Nuevo there is no outside accessible storage (apart from the bike rack). We have just come back from the National show at Peterborough. After looking at all sub-6metre motorhomes we could find (coachbuilt and panel vans) with 4 belted seats, but we have decided to stick with our Nuevo. The vans are narrower than equivalent coachbuilts and this shows in the narrower gaps between furniture. We did like the Globestar 599 EKB we saw at last year's Lincoln show as the layout is similar to the Nuevo, but on a 5.99m PV. The smaller panel vans at 5.5m we find too small compared with our Nuevo. We would like a fixed bed, but ideally with the option of being to get to the loo in the middle of the night without disturbing spouse. Transverse beds save on space (vehicle length) but mean climbing over spouse. A longitudinal bed(s) compromises the salon seating area, even in the 5.99m vans. We don't want to go over 6m. Its all compromise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundowner Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 JudgeMental - 2011-04-16 11:58 AM I think the Ford a tad to narrow to be practical...... One of my requirements when we returned to motor-caravanning in 2006 was a maximum width of 6'6" to beat many of the width limits in the UK. However, I was seduced by the Adria Twin- 6'8", then another new Twin-6'9". I was already on dodgy ground exploring some backroads, so thought that as we were already over the magic 6'6" , we might as well go a bit bigger still. We now have an Adria Compact SL at just under 7' wide, and only 2' longer than our last Twin. This has turned out to be an ideal compromise, for the different requirements of my wife and myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 arthur49 - 2011-04-16 10:31 AM Pug 2.2 6 speed, and love it.. Just like a big car to drive and even with the engine still tight we're getting about 33/34mpg. Arthur Is that real, or computer fibs? My computer shows the fuel consumption to be about 10% better than it really is, checking between fills. But I'm still getting about 33 with a light right foot, and am very happy with the van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesFrance Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 We have had several different motorhomes over the years but I didn't ever feel really comfortable driving the big ones. Only one good eye has something to do with that. The large coachbuilts which seem to be the norm today are great for spending the winter on one Spanish site, but for touring give me a panel van every time. If you want static space you may as well buy a big Tabbert caravan and sit in that watching tv. I am amazed by the room and comfort of our Adria, it seems perfect for the two of us whereas a previous Autosleeper Rambler was too cramped in wet weather and not one window could be left open in the rain. The Adria also scores on storage with a cross double at the back. No British van I know can take two 13kg gas cylinders in the gas locker. OK we have only just taken delivery, so maybe some snag will surface with further use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Peter James - 2011-04-16 7:40 PM arthur49 - 2011-04-16 10:31 AM Pug 2.2 6 speed, and love it.. Just like a big car to drive and even with the engine still tight we're getting about 33/34mpg. Arthur Is that real, or computer fibs? My computer shows the fuel consumption to be about 10% better than it really is, checking between fills. But I'm still getting about 33 with a light right foot, and am very happy with the van. Computer says 35.4 from memory ......... always optimistic. Measured the hard way full to full tanks etc over 1200 miles. 55mph on m/way/open road. Like you light right foot Peter. Strangely my wife has a heavier foot! Arthur Arthur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smick Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 We downsized from a Hymer 640 to an HRZ Sprinter with a hightop, similar to a La Strada. We emptied out all the stuff we had amassed in the Hymer and stacked it all in the garage at home. We were staggered when the HRZ swallowed the lot, and we still had room for all the necessities. Added to which, the build quality was excellent, and it has been awesomely reliable over 20K miles, with the only problems coming from a reversing camera which was fitted after delivery. Granted, there's less movement room inside, but the conversion seems to work for us. However, the problem of grandsprogs has now raised its head, and we may need to go to something which can sleep two of them, as well as us and two collies. We are convinced that for the places we go, a PVC is the answer, I just need an expandable one for when the family are with us! Starting to look seriously at a Chameleon, or something on the 6.5 metre Merc,as we need the tight turning circle. Spent a lot of time at Peterborough visiting the PVC converters, with rather mixed results. Think some longterm research is in order, and we may well look at another German van, if we can't find what we want over here. From the practical point of view, we work on the principle of three piles: Essential, Desirable and Luxury. You have to get the first pile in, and as much - or all- of the second pile; after that it's a stand up fight about what else goes in! Smick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Having downsized last year from a Rimor Sailer 645TC at 7.14m, to a Chausson Flash 04 at 5.99m, we are very happy with our decision, the Rimor layour suited us fine and the Chausson is a shorter version of it. The only thing we both really miss is the split fridge/freezer, he misses the bigger garage, but the Chausson is quite a decent size and the bed can be raised/lowered to increase/decrease the storage as required, I also miss the gas heating - we have a diesel heater but the Rimor had a gas combi with the advantage that if the heating had been on the water was heated too! To get round the smaller fridge, we have a 12v coolbox which we can use if we want and leave in the garage area, and we've just left a load of stuff at home that never got used anyway to increase the storage in the garage. We haven't regretted downsizing though, not for one minute - best thing we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art338 Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Do you need an engine with a box on it for simple living, or do you need a comfortable spaced box with an engine to move it? I guess it all depends on where your needs lie. My interests are now driving the least amount of miles as possible with the utmost comfort. We have a CL 3 miles away so why go further, it has a 6 acre field, park anywhere you like with a host of different views. Its great. I don't need another warm body any more, sleeping with a be-whiskered and croaky grandmother does me no favours at all. Give me space so we can each do our own thing. art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Smick - 2011-04-16 8:22 PM We are convinced that for the places we go, a PVC is the answer, I just need an expandable one for when the family are with us! Smick The Hymer Car 322 same layout as Adria can be ordered with a raising roof now (same as on VW campers?)providing an extra bed space.....Very neat soloution for grandkids etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Pleased its working out Judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Pleased its working out Judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Poppy - 2011-04-17 8:11 AM Pleased its working out Judge. Thanks Poppy! Now have the right vehicle for island hopping around Croatia this year then Greece next! :-D It is a relief to get it sorted...pity I could not have done it otherside of Christmas would have saved a bit of money :-S (better exchange rate and less VAT) but health issues and the weather prevented that! when are you of to Croatia we leave 15th July....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 We leave on the 26th May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazdog6007 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 we are the same got loads of stuff from various coachbuilts all in a pile in the workshop. must get round to sorting it ! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Hi just joined and hope to contribute regularly. The downsize thread had me hooked but....... many posters say that they've downsized to achieve better MPG, less space on the road and then complain that they have insufficient room for rug-rats. I moved from a Chausson Flash 06 to a much older but roomier Hymer B594 (similar to the 544 but different layout). Under 6 meters long, beds for 5 storage augmented by a back box and its got a motorbike rack in the back bumper (with spring assisters that come into play if loaded) that retracts! If we go to the UK we remove the back box for cheaper ferry costs, because we mainly travel a deux we find we have plenty of room and the drop down bed is a great space saver, I notice that a number of 'lowish' profile vans are starting to fit these too. Surely the'garage' is a total waste of space and having a vast load space at the extremities cant help in the stability stakes.. how long before this fashion statement hits the rocks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Madge Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I'm a bit late in posting this but it might help somebody. It was first posted on the forum in Oct 2006 I've just updated it a bit. I think there is a trend these days towards the panel van conversions. Recently I visited the Timberland factory and was amazed to see the number of late-plated A Class and large coach-builts that had been traded in for the smaller vans. It's not everybody's cup of tea, though, and it can be a very expensive mistake if you get it wrong. Eight years ago due to ill health (unable to pass the dreaded 70+ medical) we had to downsize from our A class Laika Ecovip 400i (4,200 kg MAM). We had had the Laika for 2 years and had fitted it out for winter touring. Extras we had fitted were a pair of 60-litre LPG tanks for domestic use, a 60-watt solar panel and a Sporty Trailers aluminium back box. As standard, the Laika had a 135 litre fridge/freezer, 115 litre fresh water tank, 140 litre waste water tank and a marine toilet of 52 litre capacity. We had just got the van sorted to our satisfaction when we had to part with it. We usually wintered away for 4 or 5 months (Jan - May), then had an Autumn trip (late Aug - mid Nov), making 7 or 8 months' continental touring in a year. We had spent Jan - April 2002 in Turkey and returned home via Rhodes, Patras and Venice. The Laika was easy to drive, very spacious to live in and the only drawbacks we found during this extensive trip were difficulties in parking and the impossibility of taking it down extremely narrow difficult roads to visit isolated ancient sites. The search then started for a replacement motorhome, with two single beds and a reasonable payload. It was a lot harder than we thought it would be. It could not be above 3,500 kg MAM and we fancied a low profile coach-built but on most the payloads were inadequate for our needs. Some payloads were only 250 - 300 kg and we were still looking at fairly large motorhomes. We then started to look at LWB high top vans and after much thought and deliberation we settled for the Timberland Freedom 11 on the LWB Fiat Ducato with a payload of approx 500 kg. We were very apprehensive about laying out over £38,000 and having all our plans go pear-shaped. We spent a great deal of time and thought before placing an order for the van. Other vans we considered were the Autosleeper Duetto but this dropped out of the frame when we discovered that they were now built on the MWB instead of the LWB chassis. We also considered the Murvi but as they are built in Devon and we live in Yorkshire we decided it was too far to travel if any problems arose. Also its layout meant we could not have a back box. Another contender was IH Campers at Ferrybridge. They had a very good product and offered to build to our specification but Timberland got the nod, as they had the two single bed layout we wanted on the production line when we visited the works. The Timberland has all the same facilities that we had on the Laika. The toilet/shower area is smaller but still as good as many coach-builts. The cooking facilities are actually better, with a small full domestic cooker. The fresh/waste water tanks are smaller but we don't find this a problem. In addition we carry 4 8-litre water containers for tea/coffee making. We also prefer to fill the 60-litre fresh water tank with these, rather than carrying long hoses, which are often inconvenient anyway. Our hobby of chasing the winter sun often means travelling through cold weather before finding the sun. Before, in the Laika, having enough LPG for cooking, heating and the fridge was always a major problem. We chose to have the optional Eberspacher diesel heater fitted at Timberland and later had an MTH Autogas 13kg refillable gas bottle with an external filler installed. This solved all the heating and LPG problems. Our 60-watt solar panel was fixed on the roof, to keep the 2 leisure batteries and the engine battery topped up when not on the move. Storage space is down from the Laika but we still found room for all the essentials. It wasn't easy but we got there in the end. Sporty Trailers manufactured us a back box that hangs on the rear door, which takes care of the loungers and camping equipment. The main thing we had to come to terms with was the downsizing of the fridge/freezer, from 135 litres to 60 litres (I'm allowed one cold beer at a time now). It just means you have to shop more frequently. This is not a problem these days, even in Turkey/Greece/Morocco. Large supermarkets are fairly frequent, even small village shops are much better stocked than they used to be and local markets are good. General storage had to be juggled until it was right. The main thing is not to take anything not strictly essential (no ballgown or tuxedo). One of our main concerns was the fact that we might be falling over one another all the time. With a bit of thought and co-operation it never happened. Seating is comfortable and we can both lounge with feet up. Sleeping is also comfortable, with room to visit the loo and make tea. If you are thinking of downsizing, do your homework first. Sort out your major priorities and look at all the options. If you get it wrong it can be a very expensive mistake. It was forced upon us but now we feel it's done us a favour. It's almost halved our fuel bill, reduced our ferry crossings and we have parked and visited places we would not have thought possible in the past. So our freedom has increased. A 5-month tour of Turkey, Italy, Sardinia, Corsica and Austria went quickly without a hitch and all we could say about it was - this is even better than it used to be! I hope this in some way helps. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesFrance Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Retread24800 - 2011-04-21 5:40 PM Surely the'garage' is a total waste of space and having a vast load space at the extremities cant help in the stability stakes.. how long before this fashion statement hits the rocks? This is where a long wheelbase van conversion really scores. If you have a double bed across the back, you get lots of load space over the rear axle and the wheel arches are under there too, so don't intrude into the washroom or make you fit a fridge cut away to go over them. A long wheelbase is much better for carrying a scooter too, which we did on a lwb Herald Templar we once had. Our old Hymer got very droopy at the back after a few years of use and didn't like the pull from passing trucks on motorways, they were quicker than us as no turbo in those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 . Our old Hymer got very droopy at the back after a few years of use and didn't like the pull from passing trucks on motorways, they were quicker than us as no turbo in those days. With a scooter on the back Without the spring assisters I would agree, but with the Turbo and 95 bhp for with only 3500kg I overtake the lorries and tuggers without any problems. never notice any problem with side drafts but I am careful about loading always have been since my caravan days!! What I have noticed is that modern vans with vast overhangs also have infinitesimal ground clearances, the Hymer catalogue even sells extra castors to help you over Ferry ramps, hump back bridges etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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