euroserv Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Hello, Having been assured last year that euro5 would be in build at the beginning of March 2011 I am now assured that there is a mainland Europe launch on 6th May 2011. Fiat UK still do not know when it will be launched in the UK and they still do not know what will be offered but did speculate that the 2.2 will be gone, replaced by a 2.0 and that there would be a lower powered 3.0 than the current offering. (Which I predicted nearly 18 months ago!)- think 145hp and you wont be far off. I am not going to stick my neck out again regarding the fate of the 2.3 but at least we will know on or just after May 6th what is going to be offered. The UK offerings will be exactly the same as the rest of Europe and I think should be on stream by July at the lastest. Euro4 vehicles have to be registered before the end of the year so there could be some very attractive deals around pre-christmas. BUT TEST THEM THOROUGHLY FOR JUDDER! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor166uk Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Hi I'm curious what they are doing to them to make them euro 5 compliant. I believe the euro 4 versions (inc. my 2.3) do not have a diesel particulate filter. I think I've read this on the Fiat website somewhere. Is this something that the new ones will have? In my opinion you're better off without a DPF. I've read so many stories of problems associated with them, not particularly on Fiats but in general. Is some sort of a facelift going to accompany the engine revisions? Any mine doesn't judder!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Absolutely correct. There will be few changes apart from the addition of the DPF, and though nobody wants one, it is the only way to get the particulates down. The 2.2 PSA/Ford engine cannot get to Euro5 without additives and exhaust after-treatment and that is why it is being dropped from the Ducato because the FPT 2.3 and 3,0 units don't need that. DPF's usually add around £800 to the price of a vehicle, so I imagine new chassis will cost that much more. All new VW and Mercs plus soon all Fords will have this extra tank of chemical and while this may last for 20-30,000 miles between fills it is yet another system to go wrong and if it does; engine power will be drastically reduced in the same way as if you tried to run the vehicle without additive. It concerns me that very likely none of the manufacturers have considered the effects of this chemical being in the vehicle for many years as may be the case with campers. Best avoided. Renault, Vauxhall and the New Nissan version of the Master also acheive Euro4 and 5 without additives. (To be fair). I have been running a Fiat Scudo in Euro5 trim and can report that this van still has the same 2.0 Peugeot engine but it has increased in power from 120hp to 165hp because this is the only engine ready for Euro5 and therefore the only one on offer at present. It still does the same 30mpg by it goes like a rocket! This suggests to me that the change to Euro5 does not necessarily have to be all bad news and that fuel consumption may not increase, at least not in all cases; which is a pleasant surprise given that every previous incarnation HAS produced worse economy at the pumps (which is the only thing that really matters to most people). Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 well I am glad I just got a new Euro 4 van while there is still choice.........Euro 5 with a DPF is maybe OK for high mileage commercial users, but probably kiss of death for low mileage, seldom used to the max campers. You just have to look at the problems with DPFs with small under used diesel cars (and why I bought a petrol model!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 euroserv - 2011-04-18 6:36 PM given that every previous incarnation HAS produced worse economy at the pumps (which is the only thing that really matters to most people). Nick It's certainly all that matters to me ! i don't care whether it's 'Euro 0' provided the engine gives good MPG, and has the potential to last at LEAST 20 years ( after which it has usually STILL to reach 100,000 miles) which is the normal usage cycle for a motorhome or camper. Anything else is a step backwards. Motorhome's long term usage already makes them the most 'Evironmentally friendly' vehicles on the planet, if the 'whole life cycle' is part of the criteria. I appreciate than Your Criteria is somewhat 'differant' !!! we really value your input though, Thanks. Ray ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everhopeful Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Apparently euro5 vehicles will also benefit from lower road tax, possibly 50% less than older specs. This would be a year on year reduction and older specs would be penalised more as time goes on. I'll guess that the London emission zone will also favour euro5 and increasingly penalise older models. So, even if they cost more, the payback may be worth it in the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 Some truth there. There was a reduced road tax incentive that was for Euro5 vehicles registered before 31st December 2010 and has now expired. It was reduced to £100 on an allegedly continuing basis. There were few vans available in time and they included the Renault Master, VW Crafter, Merc Sprinter and most irritatingly the Iveco Daily which ironically uses the same engines as Ducato! There were some smaller vans too, but not relevant here but worth mentioning is the Fiat Fiorino which was launched with Euro5 availability in late 2009. I don't know what they have been piddling about at! As far as I can tell, Euro5 will be enforced for heavy goods vehicles in 2015 but not any higher than Euro4 for light commercials under 3.5T. It is totally cra~ for us because we have loads of trucks that are barely 6 years old and cannot go to London after the end of the year. I have to spend £3500 to £4000 on conversion kits for each truck if I want to continue to go there. I say: Don't go to London. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 euroserv - 2011-04-18 6:36 PM This suggests to me that the change to Euro5 does not necessarily have to be all bad news and that fuel consumption may not increase, at least not in all cases; which is a pleasant surprise given that every previous incarnation HAS produced worse economy at the pumps (which is the only thing that really matters to most people).Nick Not always Nick! May I suggest that fuel costs on the sort of mileages that most of us do - at a guess from 2000 to 12000 miles a year? - is much less of an issue for many of us than reliability, smooth running, maintainence costs and depreciation? I could no doubt save a few mpg in fuel costs by getting an X250 in place of my older Boxer but that would involve a large capital outlay resulting in higher depreciation which would more than offset any savings at the pump? So as long as the layout still suits us and the van remains reliable I think I'll stick with my old faithful Euro 4 and let others 'help' the makers to iron out the inevitable teething problems with Euro 5 - many of which might not become apparent untill a few years of real every day use have been achieved! We all know how good pre production testing on vans is these days! Progress eh !?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 everhopeful - 2011-04-18 9:29 PM Apparently euro5 vehicles will also benefit from lower road tax, possibly 50% less than older specs. This would be a year on year reduction and older specs would be penalised more as time goes on. I'll guess that the London emission zone will also favour euro5 and increasingly penalise older models. So, even if they cost more, the payback may be worth it in the long term. If the Road tax increases because of the vehicles age, I'll have to start Taxing it for only 6 months a year. Trying to force everyone to buy 'New' vehicles every 5 years will not work with Motorhomes, costing £40,000 and up. They only do 'piddling' mileages compared to the commercial vehicles they are derived from. So the 'excuse' of environmental protection just does not wash. Believe me, any reduction in Road tax will be very short lived, pity they don't ACTUALLY spend some of it on the Roads !! (but, then I remember when it was called 'the Road Fund License' not 'Ring fenced' of course). Now it's just another 'punitive' general tax. >:-( Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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