davidashapirouk Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 We have a late-'07 Nu Venture Campers Elise-like conversion on SWB Sprinter, custom-built to maximise amenity within the smallest possible overall size. The biggest compromise in this design was on storage. Gas supply (11kg Gaslow) was overspecified (it lasts 60-plus camping nights between fills as we have compressor fridge, mains option on water heater and use fan heater when on hook-up).So we're planning to replace this with underslung 9.2kg cylinder from Autogas2000, to free the massive amount of much-needed storage space (relative to our van) the Gaslow consumes. But, to accommodate this will mean doing away with either the grey water tank or the spare wheel. We never use the grey water tank when camping as it's always easier to carry a container to disposal point than to move the van. On the other hand, we've never used the spare wheel, and I believe many or most large MH's dispense with this. In our shoes, which would you do without? One reason for asking this question concerns likely impact on resale value if we were to sell it on. Thanks for your thoughts ... especially if you have a compact PVC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Hi David and welcome to the forum. For me there is no contest. I can think of an emergency where I might need a spare wheel, but I can't think of an emergency where I suddenly need a grey water tank. You've been lucky if you haven't needed your spare wheel, but you can be sure it will be a cold wet windy night, in the middle of nowhere, when you do. (And you say you don't use the water tank anyway). ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 If you want to use aires de stationment or overnight parking here you will be lucky to find a disposal point! also where are you going to carry the waste water container? I believe both items are necessary. Using as little gas as this why not change over to a 907? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidashapirouk Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 Thanks, Retread24800. You have good point about aires, although we don't venture across the Channel for family reasons. Our waste and fresh water containers live in the washroom (alongside silverscreen and boot box) when driving between sites. I thought the problem with the 907 is there's no way to know when it's going to run out, so we'd have to carry two, wouldn't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidashapirouk Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 Thanks, malc, point taken. The middle of nowhere is pretty much where we like to take our van when we can ... Let's see what others have to say about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger20 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Ditch the spare wheel and use PunctureSafe. Most blowouts start with punctures, the tyre deflates very gradually (because none of us check it everyday do we?), overheats and then voila, a blowout. We have this dilemma with our Autotrail Tracker and to me it was a no contest. We travelled quite happily to Dubrovnik and Sarajevo. We had breakdown cover but knew there could be several days delay, if worst came to the worst, we had to source a new tyre. If we had been really bothered we would have found a way to strap and old tyre underneath, not a complete wheel. Not so much with a PVC but when you run close to the payload limits, the weight of a tyre is significant. The new Trackers only have 285kg spare now, partly because they have grown, but partly the spare wheel. Add a second person and most will be easily end up over the limit. There is also the hassle of getting at a spare wheel. Imagine trying to jack up a 3 tonne van with the scissor jack that comes with the van, on soft ground, at night in the rain and you then find that you are laid under the van trying to unseize the mechanism - no thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 To us both are essential! Any chance of someone like CAK Tanks supplying a smaller waste tank? Any chance of mounting the spare wheel on the back door - or even the roof - not that I much like the roof idea as access to a heavy wheel on the roof is not easy and it can look awful whereas on the door with a nice body coloured wheel cover might be an acceptable compromise? As you already have a spare wheel it makes sense to relocate it if you can? Beware of cans of puncture gunge as they can make a repairable tyre unrepairable which makes for an expensive puncture unless the gunge is permanent - don't know - never used the stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 If you are looking ahead at resale value I can't think of a motorhome that is sold without a grey water tank. However, many new vans do not come with a spare wheel. Ditch the spare wheel and buy puntureseal as suggested above. Also why go to the expense of buying n undeslung tank when your gas usage is minimal? Either use a Camng Gaz 907 or 4.5kg Calor. If you are doing this to increase storage you could always buy a Fiamma back box. I had one on my previous vehicle and it was amazing how much you could fit in. As I'm a committed panel van owner I would suggest you also examine carefully the stuff you actually need when you go away. Many people pack more than they need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 ditch the wheel and punture safe...a camper without tanks is not really a camper :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidashapirouk Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 Any chance of someone like CAK Tanks supplying a smaller waste tank? Good thought. Autogas2000 said that if we opted to take out the grey water tank they'd position their bottle within the available space so as to give us the best chance of fitting a smaller tank within what remained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidashapirouk Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 Tracker - 2011-04-21 6:08 PM Any chance of mounting the spare wheel on the back door - or even the roof - not that I much like the roof idea as access to a heavy wheel on the roof is not easy and it can look awful whereas on the door with a nice body coloured wheel cover might be an acceptable compromise? I don't think it would fit, what with the size of the wheel and our use of a bike rack fixed to the off-side rear door that runs right across the vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I wouldnt buy a van with no grey water storage, might as well not have a cassette toilet either! If you have room for a guzunda waste water carrier you have room for a spare 907 instead !!! But the best suggestion so far is the spare on the back door unless its one of those lifty up ones . (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Why not get the smaller Gaslow bottle instead? It may then be possible to reduce the size of the internals of the gas locker to allow you to store other items in there, ie by adding a removable shelf - stick the supports to the sides rather than screwing them in - still allowing for the gas to escape in case of a leak. For me, I'd say keep the waste tank as that could be a problem to retro-fit if someone wanted it (of the same size as original), but if you only venture out in the UK, even if you do have a problem with a flat tyre, your breakdown services would be able to sort you out, even if it meant moving your vehicle somewhere to await repair/replacement overnight and you had the times to spare - make sure your breakdown cover does not insist on a spare being carried though as I believe some do. It might also be worth getting a second opinion from someone else at possible locations for an underslug gas tank if you decide to go that way, they may spot other areas that Autogas haven't thought of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidashapirouk Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 roger20 - 2011-04-21 5:58 PM Not so much with a PVC but when you run close to the payload limits, the weight of a tyre is significant. The new Trackers only have 285kg spare now, partly because they have grown, but partly the spare wheel. Add a second person and most will be easily end up over the limit. There is also the hassle of getting at a spare wheel. Imagine trying to jack up a 3 tonne van with the scissor jack that comes with the van, on soft ground, at night in the rain and you then find that you are laid under the van trying to unseize the mechanism - no thanks Re payload, as supplied the 3.0t van was over limit when 2-up with holiday stuff, but we got it replated to 3.3t for £200 by SvTech in a purely paper exercise, so we're fine with the weight of the spare. Re hassle, I guess we might well pay a professional to do the tyre change for us, which is less disruptive than recovery and sourcing a new tyre which is the likely outcome of tyre failure without a spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I ran my last van for 4 years with puncture seal without incident...and from other threads on here punctures are reasonably rare anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidashapirouk Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 Retread24800 - 2011-04-21 6:44 PM I wouldnt buy a van with no grey water storage, might as well not have a cassette toilet either! If you have room for a guzunda waste water carrier you have room for a spare 907 instead !!! But the best suggestion so far is the spare on the back door unless its one of those lifty up ones . (lol) Useful points, thanks. But, unlike the grey water tank, we use the cassette toilet all the time, happily staying a week or more at CLs. Of course, the waste tank lives under the van when on site, whereas I'm not sure we'd want to leave a spare 907 outside. And the spare won't fit the back door together with the bike rack. That said, re resale value it's helpful to read your view that losing the grey tank would be a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 A few weeks ago a family member had a puncture ( on a car ). She phoned the AA and they asked if she had a spare wheel - if she didn't, they said they couldn't help. So it's worth finding out what your 'recovery' firms policy is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 davidashapirouk - 2011-04-21 7:03 PM Retread24800 - 2011-04-21 6:44 PM I wouldnt buy a van with no grey water storage, might as well not have a cassette toilet either! If you have room for a guzunda waste water carrier you have room for a spare 907 instead !!! But the best suggestion so far is the spare on the back door unless its one of those lifty up ones . (lol) Useful points, thanks. But, unlike the grey water tank, we use the cassette toilet all the time, happily staying a week or more at CLs. Of course, the waste tank lives under the van when on site, whereas I'm not sure we'd want to leave a spare 907 outside. And the spare won't fit the back door together with the bike rack. That said, re resale value it's helpful to read your view that losing the grey tank would be a bad idea. Couldn't you just remove the waste tank, and store it. If ever you want to sell the van, put it back. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyg3nwl Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Hi, Spare wheel cos most breakdown services require you to have a serviceable spare or they wont attend.. You can use a bucket or a washing up bowl to carry your waste water to a disposal point ( not ideal I know but feasible) we have to use the washing up bowl as waste tank outlet is so low down a bucket wont go under it. We also carry a waste hose to dump waste from tank into dump point when dump point is at ground level. (I know you asked an either /or question, so in my view, the lack of waste tank can be got around). tonyg3nwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidashapirouk Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 Mel B - 2011-04-21 6:48 PM Why not get the smaller Gaslow bottle instead? It may then be possible to reduce the size of the internals of the gas locker to allow you to store other items in there, ie by adding a removable shelf - stick the supports to the sides rather than screwing them in - still allowing for the gas to escape in case of a leak. It might also be worth getting a second opinion from someone else at possible locations for an underslug gas tank if you decide to go that way, they may spot other areas that Autogas haven't thought of. The smaller Gaslow is smaller in 3 dimensions so doesn't liberate as much useable space for bulky items (our particular need based on 3 years' use of the van) as one might think. There is also a hard-to-source Alugas 6kg bottle that is the same 30cm diameter as the 11kg Gaslow but shorter height which might make more sense if I could find one, but I understand this can't support a level gauge. I spent a fair amount of time under the van on a ramp with the Autogas2000 guys and what with the RWD prop shaft, sliding step for the side door, full length exhaust (unlike Sevel vans) and fuel tank, I really don't think there's anywhere else to put it than the rear area where the spare is or the current grey tank space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 How about putting the spare on a roof rack (?) :D...............Or another thought :D... I seem to remember Bedford CF's and VW having them on the front :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 sliding step for the side door, , I really don't think there's anywhere else to put it than the rear area where the spare is or the current grey tank space. So if you didnt have a sliding step and used a caravan step? (^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Ditch the spare wheel, as others have said a van without a waste tank will be hard to sell. A couple of points made are simply not true. Punctursafe will not render a tyre un-repairable, it simply washes out, second I have been without a spare for a number of years now and change my breakdown cover nearly every year. I have checked with every company i have been with and they all attend if vehicle does not have provision for a spare and carries an emergency repair kit. This kit, if used, may render a tyre un-repairable but you will probably need to carry one. I would get the tyres filled with punctursafe, or do it yourself, it is easy, and buy an emergency repair kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazooka Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Sparewheel would never travel without one Baz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everhopeful Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 My understanding of the breakdown cover / spare wheel issue is that if the vehicle is supplied new without a spare then most breakdown companies will still deal with you when the sealant doesn't work. Voluntarily doing without a spare seems fraught with danger and not a risk I would take. If you damage a tyre, which is quite easy to do, you will be in for a long and very expensive delay. You can bet that it will also be miles from anywhere and pouring with rain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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