Which matters more on a compact PVC: grey water tank or spare wheel?

[flicka]

Definately retain the Spare Wheel, IMO.

a) As previous posts, Breakdown services may refuse to attend.

b) In many cases punctures result in severe damage to the tyre and replacements are not always readily available.

 

Grey Water Tank,

I don’t share others posters concerns regarding resale, as yours is a customised layout (which IMO would have the biggest impact on resale value) there is no Model specification, stating that the motorhome originally had a Waste Tank fitted. So a Caravan Waste Caddy or Bucket method would appear to be the most practical.

If you want to explore the option of a.n.other Grey Water Tank, have a word with CAK Tanks, Kenilworth, http://www.caktanks.co.uk/ they did make custom build sizes to order & although maybe a little more expensive could be shaped to any available space.

It is also possible that a local Plastics fabricator could do this, but I suspect they would be more expensive than CAK.

 

“Pelmetman

Or another thought ... I seem to remember Bedford CF's and VW having them on the front”

 

I posed the question of mounting the Spare Wheel at the front over 3 years ago, (as I had done it previously in 1975 on a Bedford CF) the general consensus being that it would be detrimental to the performance of the Air Bags on modern Vehicles.

If you go down exploring this option check your front axle spare capacity first.

 

[twooks]

seems to me you have a fairly even split

 

perhaps you should consider the vans of the people offering the different advice

 

and what sort of use you make of your vehicle

 

we don't use our waste water tank and haven't done for a long time

don't see how this should reflect on our use of a toilet as i recall someone suggested

 

we haven't had a water heater for a while, no hot water - no need for a tank

we don't like the taste of water out of a tank and so carry in small containers - no need for a tank

 

we do use the van as a popular second vehicle, do as much mileage this way as we do as a camper

have had punctures and unfortunately a blow out

 

so for us no contest - we want a spare wheel

 

as or waste water - put it in the loo and empty as normal - what's your problem, if it's just washing up waste water - you can pour it down the drains or water the flowers

 

of course if you have a great big home from home with all the tackle that goes with it

get a water tank

 

if you want to travel light - if you want to explore and be really independent - get a spare wheel

 

 

as for 907 cylinders - the main issue is the exorbitant expense

if you want to carry a spare - look at 904

 

 

 

 

[Guest Tracker]

flicka - 2011-04-21 10:01 PM

“Pelmetman

Or another thought ... I seem to remember Bedford CF's and VW having them on the front”

 

I posed the question of mounting the Spare Wheel at the front over 3 years ago, (as I had done it previously in 1975 on a Bedford CF) the general consensus being that it would be detrimental to the performance of the Air Bags on modern Vehicles.

If you go down exploring this option check your front axle spare capacity first.

 

It doesn't help the engine cooling very much either and today's engine cooling is a lot less tolerant to lost airflow than the vans of yesteryear - like the CF?

Would you want to risk it on a modern engine - not known for being cheap to replace or repair - I wouldn't?

The VW was of course rear engine and with forward control the front mounted spare wheel may even have provided some much needed impact protection in the pre crash protection era?

[mel wood]

 

We never use the grey water tank when camping as it's always easier to carry a container to disposal point than to move the van.

 

 

 

 

I think you've answered the question yourself.

 

In my opinion, it's how YOU use the van and WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU.

 

(We have the same size of van and it was essential to us that we had a spare wheel.)

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your thoughts ... especially if you have a compact PVC.

[George Collings]

If you travel in remote areas where spares may be difficult to find its best to retain a spare wheel in case both tyre and wheel are damaged. As you stay in the UK giving up the spare might be the easiest solution. Punctures are relatively rare in LCV tyres (one in 13 years and 100,000 miles in my case but on a long motorway river bridge I was glad I had a spare).

 

CAK may have a suitable tank and but I recall they only do stock items. Other suppliers provide custom made version to fit available space (inside the chassis rails alongside the prop shaft for instance). I do not have details of custom builders but I know Clive Mott Gotobed will be able to help.

 

On my medium wheelbase VW LT (identical chassis to a Sprinter) I fabricated a larger grey-tank to fit closely into available space from 9mm marine ply bonded together with epoxy resin. In theory being rigid it will be more vulnerable to frost damage than a plastic item but the ply is a better insulator. With large radius fillets in the internal corners for strength and to deflect the ice upwards a few litres in the bottom should be OK.

 

Your proposed LPG tank is still much bigger than you need. Before we went over to a refillable a 6.5 kg cylinder lasted a month’s trip in summer. As you only require gas for cooking would a much smaller cylinder from the Campingaz www.campingaz.com range be sufficient. They come in arrange of sizes and one of the smallest could be carried as a spare. Its expensive gas but how often do you have to buy it.

 

The Sprinter like my Lt comes with a genuine hydraulic jack fitted in a neat space under the passengers feet.

 

 

[Guest Tracker]

mel wood - 2011-04-21 10:42 PM

We never use the grey water tank when camping as it's always easier to carry a container to disposal point than to move the van.

]

 

The other perspective is what happens to waste water when you stop en route for a brew up - or a loo stop and handwash - or when it's hissing with rain?

 

I find it much easier to let the waste tank half fill and then dump it where it will not offend anyone - when it suits me - NOT on the road whilst moving - and let's not start that old argument about where is legal to dump soapy water!

 

Carry buckets or containers of waste cross a site to a drain - not on your nelly - that's stone age ablutions and defeats the whole point of a built in waste tank - but then again we never stop more than a night or two in the same place so moving the van is not an issue?

 

'Orses fer courses - you have to do what suits your camping style best and as long as anything you alter can be changed back if it needs to I don't see how it would affect the value?

[davidashapirouk]

George Collings - 2011-04-21 11:08 PM

 

CAK may have a suitable tank and but I recall they only do stock items. Other suppliers provide custom made version to fit available space (inside the chassis rails alongside the prop shaft for instance). I do not have details of custom builders but I know Clive Mott Gotobed will be able to help.

 

On my medium wheelbase VW LT (identical chassis to a Sprinter) I fabricated a larger grey-tank to fit closely into available space from 9mm marine ply bonded together with epoxy resin. In theory being rigid it will be more vulnerable to frost damage than a plastic item but the ply is a better insulator. With large radius fillets in the internal corners for strength and to deflect the ice upwards a few litres in the bottom should be OK.

 

Your proposed LPG tank is still much bigger than you need. Before we went over to a refillable a 6.5 kg cylinder lasted a month’s trip in summer. As you only require gas for cooking would a much smaller cylinder from the Campingaz www.campingaz.com range be sufficient. They come in arrange of sizes and one of the smallest could be carried as a spare. Its expensive gas but how often do you have to buy it.

 

I'm really quite reluctant to give up the flexibility and controllability of the refillable cylinder with level gauge. Our previous van relied on 907s but had no gas heating. Whilst we usually use gas only for cooking we have occasionally been off hook-up in chillier weather and been glad of gas heating of air and water.

 

I'm not up to making my own tank, but Google has found me custom water tank makers if I wanted to go down that route. But not sure how much space would be left after installation of the underslung gas bottle. Yes, I do wish there was a smaller one than 9.2kg.

[davidashapirouk]

Retread24800 - 2011-04-21 7:32 PM

 

[so if you didnt have a sliding step and used a caravan step? (^)

 

That would save some space but it's a narrow step so would still require a new, smaller, custom-made waste water tank which is looking like the only way to keep both tank and spare wheel

[davidashapirouk]

Thanks to everyone for replying to my question, much appreciated. Based on the fact that both the grey water tank and the spare wheel have received compellingly-argued, strong support from several of you, I reckon I should keep both. This narrows the options to 3:

 

1. Do nothing, except work on keeping down the amount of stuff we take with us so as to make do with existing storage.

 

2. Reduce from 11kg to 6kg Gaslow bottle, for a very slight increase in storage space within the gas locker around the bottle. (If the squatter-shaped Alugas 6kg bottle came with a level gauge that would be much preferable as it would release more useable space within the locker.)

 

3. Go ahead with the Autogas underslung bottle, placing it as far forward as possible, to leave room behind it for a smaller, possibly L-shaped, custom-made grey water tank.

 

I'll post again to report progress on this.

 

Thanks again. ;-)

[Guest Tracker]

Or - 4 - Having not seen your rear end I can't tell - but maybe get a small box made up to fit beneath the bike rack into which some more clutter that you didn't know you needed can fit! Should be able to get a gas locker sized box made maybe?

[Guest JudgeMental]

and visit a weigh bridge first to see what allowances you have on either axle, tanks full of gas are heavy....... to be honest it is a no brainer IMO just use puncture seal and forget the spare wheel. if yo geta lose a tyre you have to wiat for breakdown assistance no big deal in a camper.....And canvas how many times that happens, not once in over 20 years at this have I had a puncture

[colin]

Can I go back to your original question.

If you don't ever use the grey tank why keep it? You've had a van built for yourselves, have it as you want it and don't worry about it.

[Mel B]

I believe that O'Leary's do bespoke water tanks - might be worth giving them a call.

 

Their website only gives a fraction of all the stuff that they do:

 

O'Leary's

[Mel B]

This might be a daft question, but would a top box or back box be out of the question?

[davidashapirouk]

JudgeMental - 2011-04-22 7:02 PM

 

and visit a weigh bridge first to see what allowances you have on either axle, tanks full of gas are heavy....... to be honest it is a no brainer IMO just use puncture seal and forget the spare wheel. if yo geta lose a tyre you have to wiat for breakdown assistance no big deal in a camper.....And canvas how many times that happens, not once in over 20 years at this have I had a puncture

 

Weight not a problem as I've had the van replated to 3.3t from 3.0t (at which rating I was struggling) as well as fiting semi-air suspension to increase rear weight limit.

 

Re spare wheel I guess it's hard to put a price on "peace of mind" -- even though most of us haven't had punctures some of us have have saved major hassles by carrying a spare, plus there's the threat of breakdown services not supporting you if you've discarded the spare. So I'm now looking at trying to have it both ways by fitting a custom-made grey water tank.

 

 

[davidashapirouk]

colin - 2011-04-22 7:43 PM

 

Can I go back to your original question.

If you don't ever use the grey tank why keep it?

 

Only because one day I might curse not having it (on a car park, perhaps?), just as one day I might have a puncture or worse happen to a tyre. But you have a point, thanks.

[davidashapirouk]

Mel B - 2011-04-22 9:24 PM

 

This might be a daft question, but would a top box or back box be out of the question?

Not a daft question, thanks, but what with two roof lights, roll-out awning and directional TV aeriel the SWB roof is pretty crowded and the bike rack prevents a back box when carrying bikes (which we do).

 

[malc d]

To me, a spare wheel is a bit like medical insurance when touring on the continent.

 

The fact that I haven't had to use it for many years doesn't tempt me to go without it.

 

 

;-)

 

( Just hope I'm not tempting fate by saying that ).

 

:-(

[davidashapirouk]

Mel B - 2011-04-22 9:24 PM

 

This might be a daft question, but would a top box or back box be out of the question?

 

Thanks. Will check them out after the holidays, together with http://www.plasticwatertanks.co.uk/

[Pc Plod]

I have to totally disagree about dishing the spare wheel.

 

Last year i hired a motorhome and went to France with a pal who had a timberland pvc and unfortunatley he had a blowout.

 

He did not have a spare wheel and the tyre was shredded. A tin of tyre foam would have been of no use to him, the upshot of it all was that we had to wait 3 days for a spare wheel to be delivered to the tyre depo.

 

This ruined both our holidays and when i purchased a timberland pvc the first thing i did was to get a spare wheel and carrier fitted.

 

There was a writeup in a recent mmm from a writer explaining the problems he had when he also had a shredded tyre.

 

I believe it is foolish to be without a spare wheel and tyre, if you wear glasses would you venture abroad without a spare!

[roger20]

PC Plod - I think you are missing the point I made about why blowouts occur. PunctureSafe is something which is permanently in the tyre to prevent slow leaks and consequently blowouts. I agree that sidewall weakness could cause blowouts but in a good tyre kept properly inflated I would suggest that underinflation is the biggest cause of blowouts.

 

I agree that attempting to put something into the tyre after a puncture or a blowout is a waste of time but we were discussing viable alternatives to carrying a spare wheel.

 

The fact that PunctureSafe is used by the Royal Mail fleet says something about its usefulness (and I have no connection with the product whatsoever - just someone who can see its merits).

 

If payload was not an issue I would almost certainly have a spare wheel in addition to PS. However I would sooner ditch the spare wheel than risk being possibly uninsured for being over the MGVW in the event of an accident.

[roger20]

PC Plod - I think you are missing the point I made about why blowouts occur. PunctureSafe is something which is permanently in the tyre to prevent slow leaks and consequently blowouts. I agree that sidewall weakness could cause blowouts but in a good tyre kept properly inflated I would suggest that underinflation is the biggest cause of blowouts.

 

I agree that attempting to put something into the tyre after a puncture or a blowout is a waste of time but we were discussing viable alternatives to carrying a spare wheel.

 

The fact that PunctureSafe is used by the Royal Mail fleet says something about its usefulness (and I have no connection with the product whatsoever - just someone who can see its merits).

 

If payload was not an issue I would almost certainly have a spare wheel in addition to PS. However I would sooner ditch the spare wheel than risk being possibly uninsured for being over the MGVW in the event of an accident.

[malc d]

I wouldn't think that the reference to Royal Mail using PS is very relevant. I'm sure that if they had a shredded tyre they wouldn't have to wait three days to get another wheel to get the van back on the road,

They've got a bit more back up than a man on his own in a motorhome ( possibly in a foreign country).

 

 

;-)

[davidashapirouk]

Just to update if anyone's interested:

 

I've decided not to fit the external gas tank. This thread was helpful in reminding me of the benefits of both spare wheel and grey water tank, as well as the opportunities to economise on storage.

 

In the end, the costs (total for new gas and grey water tanks to be supplied and fitted almost a grand!) and complexity of getting a custom-made grey water tank to accommodate the external gas tank were just too much relative to the gain in storage.

 

I've had my 11kg Gaslow cylinder exchanged, free of charge, for a 6 kg, by Gaslow at Loughborough. The gain in storage space is modest, but it's so much cheaper! Re-siting the restraining strap and adjusting the pipework will make the most of the additional cupboard space relased.

 

Thanks to everyone who posted on this.