Over weight, over priced and everywhere.

[Retread24800]

Ok thanks everybody,

With fuel fast aproaching £1.50 a litre thats about £8.00 a gallon as a reality check how long are we going to be able to fund our hobby?

US RV's at 6mpg are an extreme example but here normal eurovans struggle to achieve 35mpg say 11.5l/100km.

The trouble I forsee is that without a serious look at fuel economy no one will be able to use an average coachbuilt or even a PVC .

Engines are much more efficient than they were 20 years ago, a 2.2td can give 130bhp but touring efficiencies are still IRO 28mpg and I believe that this is mainly due to the excess weight carried on modern campers,

My ancient camper gives me 30mpg from a 2.5td I am no luddite, I enjoy my Flat screen, swivelin captains chairs, hot water and blown air heating. and 3 way fridge. Toilet and shower I even enjoy a permanent bed! but the 20ft van weighs in at just over 2 1/2 tonne giving a reasonable payload, with modern construction methods Light weight ALKO chassis, Monocoque Bodies etc I would have thought you could add a metre or so to that for no weight gain!

Where is the excess weight coming from?

 

 

[Mel B]

You can't assume that a shorter motorhome will be lighter.

 

Our Rapido 709F, bought new in 2003, had a payload (before extras added) of 585kg - it was only 5.56m long, 2.23 wide and 2.67 high - NOT what I would call large! Our current van at 5.99m long, 2.30m wide and 2.71m high, has a basic payload of over 700kg!

 

The Rapido was heavy for its size (but it was sooooooo cute! :D ), probably down to the thickness of the American type gel coat exterior etc.

 

It doesn't follow that longer motorhomes will be a lot heavier, as I believe the Chausson Flash 03 has a payload in excess of 600kg and that's an overcab at over 6.2m in length.

[Retread24800]

Mel B - 2011-04-23 9:15 PM

 

You can't assume that a shorter motorhome will be lighter.

 

It doesn't follow that longer motorhomes will be a lot heavier, as I believe the Chausson Flash 03 has a payload in excess of 600kg and that's an overcab at over 6.2m in length.

 

Sorry let me explain myself further.

If my lumbering old tank of a van 5.99x2.25x2.75 on a commercial chassis with steel reinforcing framework can come in at 2,550kg ULW and 30mpg with all the bells and whistles why is it that modern vans find it difficult to better the size/ weight/ economy ratio? OK I should have added that Low profile vans should have better aerodynamics too.

Why is it that van economy figures have failed to improve over the past 20 years?

 

Don't get me started on the Chausson Flash, I nearly gave up MHing after owning one of those back in 2007 (but it was the 04) >:-)

[Rosbotham]

Retread24800 - 2011-04-23 6:51 PM

 

With fuel fast aproaching £1.50 a litre thats about £8.00 a gallon as a reality check how long are we going to be able to fund our hobby?

US RV's at 6mpg are an extreme example but here normal eurovans struggle to achieve 35mpg say 11.5l/100km.

The trouble I forsee is that without a serious look at fuel economy no one will be able to use an average coachbuilt or even a PVC .

 

 

Again, this may be controversial but the cost of fuel may be a huge irritant, but the real impact on our hobby is somewhat overblown. RVs, yes, daft consumption, but this thread was originally about 4 tonne vans. With mine, even towing a tonne's worth of car behind, I average 20MPG. Compare that with the 28mpg you mention and based on 6000 miles/yr, that's approx 85 gallons a year more. Even at the £1.50/litre mentioned (we're not there yet!), that amounts to fifty quid a month more. A lot of money, yes, but put next to £40k's worth of motorhome, maybe not the big issue we consider it. Certainly not enough to make me wish to sell up & buy something smaller. Mind, I might think differently as I drive away from the petrol station...

[Guest Tracker]

Rosbotham - 2011-04-23 9:07 PM

Mind, I might think differently as I drive away from the petrol station...

 

Try some lateral thinking - fit a smaller fuel tank - that way filling up will cost less!

 

Simples!

 

I might even have to take four of the plugs out of the V12 Jag if it gets much more expensive!

 

Positive thinking - glad the van isn't V12!

[terry1956]

Hi all, last year I looked at replacing my old hymer b544, its 11 years old now. Well i did not want a larger motorhome, but I don,t realy like climbing up into bed at night and the lack of a garage is a pain ( no place to put the deck chairs) I looked long and hard, and came away with some ideas, but when i did the sums, trade in price v new motorhome price etc. i just could not do it. Also the mass of cheap plastic being used and the general feel of the materials was just not as good as my old hymer. so what to do??

well i think that sooner or later we will all be priced off the roads anyway, if its not the price of fuel it will be this euro engine rateing rubbish or some other form of red tape. so what is the point in shelling out more money on something with a limited use.

So I have paid out for some more upto date transfers to go on the hymer, had the engine/gearbox and both axles given a good service. and its as good as new. will just need to get use to climbing up into bed and the lack of a garage.

michael

[JamesFrance]

Retread24800 - 2011-04-23 9:56 PM

 

Why is it that van economy figures have failed to improve over the past 20 years?

 

I think that the answer to that is probably that today's motorhomes have far greater performance than those of 20 years ago and we use the acceleration available and much better braking. The normal cruising speed seemed to be 50 mph then whereas we expect to go at 60 or 70 mph today. Certainly the modern engine is far more efficient than they were, so if you use the same performance you will get better economy.

 

Most motorhomes are the same 3500kg weight as they have always been and I can remember getting good economy in the mountains simply by going at slower speeds than on main roads or motorways.

[Retread24800]

747 - 2011-04-22 8:29 PM  There has been an all electric option in panel van conversions for at least 2 years. No gas bottles needed and fine for club sites. As most m/homers exclusively use club sites,

Do they?

why have a shower in the first place (more space available)? Why need a large leisure battery when on hook up all of the time? Why cannot the owner specify a smaller fridge/freezer and not necessarily the latest model with automatic changeover? )

If you did away with the sink as well...supplied on club sites  and also dispensed with the bed you could stay at a 'Travel Lodge'

[Retread24800]

Getting back on subject when I first bought one of the first issues of MMM it was full of phrases like'car like handling' and 'can be used every day'.

Now it seems we have to tug a car to a site and then park up for the holiday before rehitching up to return our MH to its rightful home in a storage yard.  Sounds a bit like Horses behind the Cart to me.

With modern load allowances we cant even take our water or a couple of 13kg cylinders with us.

But to be fair it looks as if at least one Italian manufacturer is heading into the 21st Century, the Wingamm brownie 5.8, dont like the interior finish (or the price 62072 Euro) but applaud the 800kg load allowance

[747]

Retread24800 - 2011-04-24 11:37 PM

Getting back on subject when I first bought one of the first issues of MMM it was full of phrases like'car like handling' and 'can be used every day'.

Now it seems we have to tug a car to a site and then park up for the holiday before rehitching up to return our MH to its rightful home in a storage yard.  Sounds a bit like Horses behind the Cart to me.

With modern load allowances we cant even take our water or a couple of 13kg cylinders with us.

But to be fair it looks as if at least one Italian manufacturer is heading into the 21st Century, the Wingamm brownie 5.8, dont like the interior finish (or the price 62072 Euro) but applaud the 800kg load allowance

You started this discussion but have not come up with any solutions to the problem. Maybe you just like a good argument or are trying to prove some obscure point. I have a van with a 750 kg payload, 2 x 11 kg gas cylinders and lots of storage and space. This means I do not suffer from your payload issues and I shall retire from a pointless series of arguments. :D

[Retread24800]

From reading the various answers to this thread i've come to the conclusion that the answer to my question may be that buyers need to be educated in the pitfalls of expecting to have everything on board and having the largest possible living space, when I was caravanning and running a medium size family car I was expected to abide by the caravan clubs sensible 85% towing weight, Caravans in those days were built lighter to take into account the lighter more fuel efficient tow cars on the market then, and we used Awnings for additional living space, Today it is quite possible to have a 6 meter van with all the living space you could need on holiday, especially now that the drop down bed is available in low profile vans while retaining a decent load allowance and manouverability and decent fuel consumption.

[602]

Hi,

 

I have often found that my fuel consumption IMPROVES when I am towing. I think this is because I know that I can't accelerate, so don't even try.

 

When I started driving, a small car would do about 30mpg, and the average motor bike would do 100mpg. Today, the family car does nearewr 50mpg ....... and so does the average bike.

 

602

[Rosbotham]

Tracker - 2011-04-23 9:16 PM

 

I might even have to take four of the plugs out of the V12 Jag if it gets much more expensive!

 

Don't need to....my Jag's only a V8 (lol)