Brock Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Bob, Would you buy food or drink products for your travelling companions, or expect them to consume the food or drink if it was from an establishment that you knew did not comply with food hygiene standards? Do you throw away food that has just gone past its sell by date 'just to be sure'? Do you always wash your hands after going to the toilet or before handling food? Asking yourself questions like these will help you work out your risk appetite [no pun intended]. If you are unwilling to expose your fellow motorhomers to even a minuscule amount of risk, and you do not mind paying out a few bob extra, then buy a food grade hose. On the other hand, if you think the food grade hose is just another attempt to unnecessarily part you from your hard earned cash and are willing to accept the minuscule risk on behalf of your travelling companions, use a garden hose that has been kept away from garden products - such as weed killer! You will not get motorhomers to agree on this one. Personally, I use a food grade hose. My wide practises good food hygiene in the kitchen and expects me to do so in the van. However, we are not saints, just ordinary people who try to follow good practice but do not always manage to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 This thread on food grade hoses has certainly come to me as a bit of a shock. I ate mine. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francisgraham Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 JudgeMental - 2011-04-29 9:59 AM Interesting topic...I only read it so that I dont have to watch that unspeakable event that is saturating the media Unspeakable event? Oh my God, what a drama queen! Methinks you doth protest too much sir. 2 billion people across the world would disagree with you and I have this morning witnessed an uplifting, joyous and majestic celebration that showed Britain at its best. Over the next couple of years this country will have a tourism boost that will repay the costs over and over. And unless you actually saw the 'unspeakable event' you simply will not be able to understand why this is so. I'm right of centre and in the U.S. would be a Tea Party Republican but, when Barak Obama was invested as a Democratic president I watched the event with a tear in my eye. It was inspiring and a huge pleasure and spectacle, just like this morning. I would not have been so mean-spirited, downright miserable and nasty enough to have boycotted it just because I'm not a supporter and neither would I have spewed vitriol about it just because my views don't correspond with those of others. The vast majority of the Britons and billions of people from all over the world have had a far more enjoyable morning than you have, I can assure you! You have my deepest sympathies! Anyway, must dash, it's the balcony scene any minute! What a genuinely lovely and nice couple they are. I wish them every happiness in their marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art338 Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 I wonder if they and their guests are drinking from plastic containers? art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francisgraham Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 art338 - 2011-04-29 2:00 PM I wonder if they and their guests are drinking from plastic containers? art If they are then they will be in 'food grade' materials as are all such vessels. It's been the law for many years and they are subject to scrutiny with severe sentences for anyone not using the correct materials. You think, as you said above that people who wish to take sensible precautions are'frightened of their own shadows'. Do you not wear a seat belt when you drive? Do you smoke forty cigarettes a day, drink a lot and not take any exercise? Or perhaps like most of us you're actually intelligent enough to balance risk and reward? I climb mountains but I take the right gear and make sure that, if alone, someone knows where I'm going. Am I frightened of my own shadow or am I just sensible and intelligent? Have you ever climbed an ice-wall or are you perhaps frightened of your own shadow? Feel free to use hoses with carcinogens and lead in them. Hoses made in Chinese factories from the cheapest possible materials with no concern for our health. The chances are that you won't be affected. If you smoke continue to do so, you may not get lung cancer, but then again! As I've said before, if all of the pipes in the food distribution chain and the plastic used for drinking and food was not food grade then we'd be looking at many more deaths from cancer. I would suggest that, before making smart-Alec comments about those of us who wish to minimise risk, that you go to a search engine and do a little research. I promise you, you'll change your tune! Take a chance by all means, that's your right but please do not ridicule those of us who have obviously done much more research into this matter than you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul2 Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 I think the flat blue food grade hose is easyer to store than garden hose (and god bless them I've not seen a thing but i have had double time at work today) Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Oops! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 francisgraham - 2011-04-29 1:10 PM JudgeMental - 2011-04-29 9:59 AM Interesting topic...I only read it so that I dont have to watch that unspeakable event that is saturating the media Unspeakable event? Oh my God, what a drama queen! Methinks you doth protest too much sir. 2 billion people across the world would disagree with you and I have this morning witnessed an uplifting, joyous and majestic celebration that showed Britain at its best. I went out for a bike ride and got a flat tyre....rather repair a flat then watch that drivel. They only changed their name in 1917 from "Saxe-Coburg and Gotha" to "Windsor" to ingratiate themselves with you mugs...They say you get the government you deserve? looks like you get the Royalty you deserve as well...and a minor German royal family at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul2 Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 i think the flat blue food grade hose is easyer to store than garden hose (and god bless them I've not seen a think but i got double time at work today) Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 JudgeMental - 2011-04-29 2:44 PM I went out for a bike ride and got a flat tyre....rather repair a flat then watch that drivel. They only changed their name in 1917 from "Saxe-Coburg and Gotha" to "Windsor" to ingratiate themselves with you mugs...They say you get the government you deserve? looks like you get the Royalty you deserve as well...and a minor German royal family at that. Still at least the female is from a genuine working class family of social climbers, done it in three generations too, not bad for a miners offspring, LoL!! Still believe the 'food grade' hose is a load of b'[[@cks though. Funny how people for instance eat unpeeled apples (see lindane) and the pips (see arsenic) and do all sorts of things that they don't know is not 100% perfect and don't even think about it, mention you have never used 'food grade' hosepipe in 30 years and read some really over the top comments. Even BS standards can be OTT especially since the rise of the dreaded Health and Safety at Work Acts and the jobsworths involved with that. It would be interesting to do a study and find out if there are any health issues between people that have used ordinary hosepipes for 30 plus years and those that have not, though I must say I have only noticed the rise of the food grade hose fairly recently, you couldn't buy them when we started out. It's a funny old world how easy it is to pry money out of some, still each to their own choice.! Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Basil - 2011-04-29 9:55 PM JudgeMental - 2011-04-29 2:44 PM I went out for a bike ride and got a flat tyre....rather repair a flat then watch that drivel. They only changed their name in 1917 from "Saxe-Coburg and Gotha" to "Windsor" to ingratiate themselves with you mugs...They say you get the government you deserve? looks like you get the Royalty you deserve as well...and a minor German royal family at that. Still at least the female is from a genuine working class family of social climbers, done it in three generations too, not bad for a miners offspring, LoL!! Bas That is only to strengthen their gene pool? weakened by years of inbreding.....Marry a strapping and healthy working class lass...then drive her to the edge of madness, with lack of love & attention etc... lets hope for her sake this is a different scenario *-) Would you trust your daughter into their loving arms? not in a million years would I let mine near them..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 JudgeMental - 2011-04-29 11:24 PM That is only to strengthen their gene pool? weakened by years of inbreding.....Marry a strapping and healthy working class lass...then drive her to the edge of madness, with lack of love & attention etc... lets hope for her sake this is a different scenario *-) Would you trust your daughter into their loving arms? not in a million years would I let mine near them..... I don't think you'd get that far judge ... they do have SOME standards you know, not any 'riff-raff' commoners will do! :D Somehow I think William and Kate are well aware of what a lot of their future life together will hold - its not a whirlwind engagement/romance like Charles and Diana had (I think he was 'forced' to get married by "the family" anyway, not that I am condoning his actions). With Kate and William spending the past 10 years to get to know each other they've certainly got a good start - and that alone is longer than a lot of marriages last! 8-) The next question will be - how long until the first sprog arrives and what's the betting it will have bright ginger hair? (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art338 Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 FrancisGraham Now that is interesting, you doubt my research, and yet you do not know me. Born in the 20's and spent a life in industry (still do) among some of the most carcinogenic materials possible, such as molten beryllium copper, chromium, molybdenum, manganese and leads of various grades etc. My claim to survival is due to a carefree attitude to it all and a simple understanding of how my body functions. An individual who becomes over anxious is more prone to being affected. Oh, I nearly forgot, two bouts of skin cancer came my way, they then decided I was not worth the effort and vacated me. Nothing concerns me one iota. I just get on with living and let obstacles pass me by. There’s too much to do and the days are becoming shorter. I always use garden hose. Just remove a few spiders first and all is well. art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art338 Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Judge I'm surprised you use the C word? Surely everyone should be the same with no 'Class', you tend to advertise the system that you dislike. I see no working or upper or any class, people are how you percieve them. I would have a guess that you see yourself in a particular 'Class'. (like food grade hose) Why art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundowner Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I' not certain what this thread is about any more, but if we are still discussing water hoses, (for the same reasons already mentioned by flicka), I use a food standard hose, and also have one one of the excellent "Nature Pure" water filters fitted. Apart from peace of mind, the water tastes better and saves wasting money on bottled water. For similar reasons, we also have a water filter and separate drinking water tap fitted in the house. The food quality hose also rolls up flat, making sure that there is no "stale" water lying in the hose, and is lighter and less bulky than a normal garden hose. The advantages far outweigh the cost, which is minimal, when compared with the overall cost of our hobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francisgraham Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 art338 - 2011-04-29 11:40 PM FrancisGraham Now that is interesting, you doubt my research, and yet you do not know me. Born in the 20's and spent a life in industry (still do) among some of the most carcinogenic materials possible, such as molten beryllium copper, chromium, molybdenum, manganese and leads of various grades etc. My claim to survival is due to a carefree attitude to it all and a simple understanding of how my body functions. An individual who becomes over anxious is more prone to being affected. Oh, I nearly forgot, two bouts of skin cancer came my way, they then decided I was not worth the effort and vacated me. Nothing concerns me one iota. I just get on with living and let obstacles pass me by. There’s too much to do and the days are becoming shorter. I always use garden hose. Just remove a few spiders first and all is well. art Mmmm. What a very contradictory person you are. You wrote: 'Me thinks some people are frightened of their own shadow. Unless anyone lives in a laboratory every day with a host of test equipment and examines everything they eat or drink they have not a clue as to what they are consuming! Labels and words are an aid to sales. Nothing more. Why believe what someone writes? ' End Quote. It appears that you have some kind of conspiracy theory that the information given to us on food labelling for instance, is simply made up. Or the fact that food establishments having to install high-quality food-grade hoses is just a myth and that these people will install low grade hoses. Have you not heard of health inspectors and snap inspections by trading standards officers? But what is particularly insulting about your general tone is the attitude that because some people wish to take sensible precautions about their health, that they are some kind of anxious and nervous wrecks. So before it became law, did you wear a seat belt? Would you now, knowing the evidence, smoke forty cigarettes a day? Or do you have the brains to make qualified decisions about taking sensible precautions to ensure a long and healthy life? I hope that this is the case. I can assure you that I have no anxieties I don't go through life believing that I can't read everything that's been written, that must be awful to be so paranoid. As I said, I climb mountains and do other moderately dangerous things. You were lucky with your skin cancer. One of my closest friends died of it. Would you now describe people who keep out of the sun or use heavy sun tan lotion as 'over anxious'? I would describe them as being sensible in light of the knowledge that we now have as opposed to what we knew fifty years ago. Finally, what are your qualifications to know that, with a cheap hose, 'all is well'? Presumably you have a degree in chemistry, or molecular biology, or maybe you're a medical man. I'm sure that we're all interested to know what it is that gives you this certainty that nothing can harm you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art338 Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I'm making no more comments as this thread is for M/home info not personal chattering. I do however think you do go on about it rather unnecessarily art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 This is awesome stuff! So entertaining! For pities sake chaps, we are talking about passing a bit of tap water through a hosepipe for just a couple of minutes only, maybe once every 3 or 4 days, maybe 10 times per year. This isn't painting your body with high level radiation. It isn't wrestling with crocodiles. It isn't going into war. Given the clear and enormous danger of instant death that apparently now exists from such an erstwhile usual practice, 'tis a wonder how the human race has managed for the previous fifty thousand years or so without "food grade" hose for such occasional usage. I'm rather intrigued. If you really think that there is such a significant risk in such a rare usage of non-food grade hosepipe, then how do you summon up the huge amount of courage to actually get out of bed, eat, walk, sit in chairs, swim, drive, go shopping etc, given your perception of and relative valuation of the risks inherent in those and indeed any other form of human activity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I just carry a 15' length of 'filler hose' (Towsure) and sterilise it once or twice a year, never needed anything longer, (so far), plus a selection of various 'tap adapters' for the owners of the taps who try to 'frusrate' van owners from 'filling up' , also 'grips' for if the tap handle is missing (used several times). Have never had 'Delhi belly' from the water system, which gets Sterilised twice a year as well. You never realise how 'essential' a supply of water is, Until you can't get any !! ;-) Ray Only take what you need, and make sure you turn the tap off fully (not dripping) after you finish. a 'tip' for wild campers in Scotland, there are nearly always water taps at the isolated Cemeteries near the coast. (above rule applies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francisgraham Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 BGD - 2011-04-30 4:37 PM This is awesome stuff! So entertaining! For pities sake chaps, we are talking about passing a bit of tap water through a hosepipe for just a couple of minutes only, maybe once every 3 or 4 days, maybe 10 times per year. This isn't painting your body with high level radiation. It isn't wrestling with crocodiles. It isn't going into war. Given the clear and enormous danger of instant death that apparently now exists from such an erstwhile usual practice, 'tis a wonder how the human race has managed for the previous fifty thousand years or so without "food grade" hose for such occasional usage. I'm rather intrigued. If you really think that there is such a significant risk in such a rare usage of non-food grade hosepipe, then how do you summon up the huge amount of courage to actually get out of bed, eat, walk, sit in chairs, swim, drive, go shopping etc, given your perception of and relative valuation of the risks inherent in those and indeed any other form of human activity? Thank you for this post which shows the level of debate by those who think the use of food grade hoses unnecessary. We survived for 50,000 years because we didn't ingest chemicals. One of modern life's biggest threats is carcinogens from chemicals and plastics and exhaust gases. Cancer was unheard of just a few generations ago, even in those who lived long lives. It is widely accepted that chemicals in all of the things that now permeate modern life are one of the main causes of many kinds of cancer and governments have taken steps to ensure that we ingest as few as possible, hence the introduction of food grade plastics in all food storage containers and tubing. No one in this thread has provided one bit of evidence to contradict the sensible points put forward which explain why food grade hoses are less risk than cheap plastic ones. All we get is the same sneering as above about how we are all scared of getting out of bed and spend our lives worrying. Rubbish, rubbish and more rubbish! Fifty years ago you couldn't breathe in some cities because of smog and thousands of people died from bronchitis and emphysema. Many wore smog masks to protect them. If one or two of you were around then I can just imagine the comment. "Smog masks? What a bunch of nancy boys. A bit of smog never harmed anyone!" Around the same time we used to use DDT on our crops. Guess what, people died! "What a bunch of wimps, a bit of DDT never did me any harm!" What is very amusing is that we have one man who tells us that he's over 80 and has never worried about anything. He can't seem to work out that the reason that he's lived far longer than his grandparents is because those politicians whom he probably despises, have put in place measures to ensure that our streets are not full of filthy smoke and fog, that our food is not laced with harmful chemicals and that the beer that we drink and the food we store is in food grade containers. These are made from high density polyethylene (HDPE) which is known not to leach any chemicals that are suspected of causing cancer or disrupting hormones, as opposed to, as just one example, polyvinyl chloride (V or PVC). To soften this into its flexible form, manufacturers add “plasticizers” during production. Traces of these chemicals can leach out of PVC when in contact with foods. According to the National Institutes of Health, di-2-ethylhexyl phthalate (DEHP), commonly found in PVC, is a suspected human carcinogen. Now let's spell this out yet again and keep it as simple as I can because some people seem unable to understand, or perhaps they haven't read the entire thread properly. Using a food grade hose may not do you any harm at all. Breathing a bit of smog will do some people no harm at all. But together, we still ingest lots of other carcinogens because of our exposure to modern chemicals. Most of them, ingested alone, will not kill us but it's the cumulative affect that is the problem. Now if people wish to take the risk of adding just that tiny little bit extra that cheap hoses will undoubtedly add to their system that's fine. I'd be the last person to deny them that right. But if some of you, God forbid, should actually get cancer I can promise you that you will wonder if perhaps it was that little extra from your cheap Chinese hose that finally turned one cell from normal to cancerous. What do you think cause a cell to become cancerous? Do you think that it does it for a bit of fun? It turns cancerous because of carcinogens from the nasty things in the air and in our lives! So, carry on ignoring the advice that any expert will give you and use your ordinary hoses but please, please, stop this nonsense of simply accusing those of us who like to act sensibly and weigh up the risks, of being some kind of nervous idiots. What is the difference for God's sake between someone making sure that his electrical system is properly earthed, just in case there's a short, and someone wanting to make sure that what he eats and drinks isn't contaminated by carcinogens. Finally, last week I climbed Blencathra in the Lake District, via Sharp Edge, and I've done it in Winter. In Winter I take an ice axe and crampons. Perhaps I'm a bit of sissy for needing these things? I bet you'd do it in your shorts and sandals! I mean, what are the chances of falling and needing to dig in an ice axe? Pretty slight but my God, if it happens, and it's happened to me, it's the difference between living and dying! So let's have it then. If you can come up with some coherent argument as to why we are wrong, let's have it, but cut out this silly crap about people being nervous wrecks who can't get out of bed in the morning when what they really are is intelligent and sensible people who weigh up risks and probably enjoy life more because of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 This thread like so many before it would have remained interesting had it not denigrated into a peeing up the wall contest. I don't know why anyone should be expected to accept anyone else's opinion, no matter how well intentioned, and by the same token those who express an opinion, no matter how factual they consider it to be, would do well not get all offended when someone deigns to disagree. On the other hand it does prove that paranoia is still alive and thriving - maybe he at least must be using only food grade hose to have lived this long! Living is a risk and we all choose to accept or decline to take those risks which we find - err - not worth the risk! And long may it remain so in spite of the well intentioned efforts of the EU and Elfan Safety to totally sanitize our lives. Now can we all just agree to disagree amicably please? Thanks fellas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 BGD - 2011-04-30 4:37 PM ... It isn't wrestling with crocodiles. Have you ever tried wrestling with a large slippery 'snake' (hose) that just won't curl up and go back in it's bag? 8-) Seriously, we use a standard hose pipe - not a cheap Chinese one - but a good quality garden hose which we have cut into two pieces, a 1/3rd of the orignal length, the other piece the remaining 2/3rds. One very good reason for using a standard hose is that when using a lay flat hose in our experience it take an absolute age to fill the tank due to their smaller bore. With our 'normal' hose, the water is in the pipe for a relatively miniscule amount of time so I don't worry about it, we've never had bad water, or a tummy upset from drinking the tank water, and we've been motorhoming since 1996. I wouldn't dismiss anyone who wanted to use food grade hose, after all it is their choice, but it is mine prerogative NOT to use it too. I very, very, very rarely drink alcohol because I don't like it (yeah, weird I know! *-) ), but some people think nothing of throwing a few pints down their neck, or bottles of wine, a few times a week - there is research to show that this is detrimental to health yet people still do it and that can cause stomach and throat cancer not to mention other nasties. Just remembered another reason we don't like lay flat hoses either, you usually have to unroll all of it to use it, then roll it all back up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art338 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I forgot one more interesting factor in this hose saga, it is that most people assume that water passes through a hose on a solid basis, in that its a 'solid tube of water' and therefore scours the plastic sides as it travels. Wrong. The inner wall of the plastic is stationary therefore the water at that point is either stationary or slow moving, The 'tube' of water moves at different speeds according to its position within a tube. Centrally its faster than at the sides against the wall. Therefore what comes out the end of your "garden hose" is almost exactly the same quality as that that went in, for it is the most central parts of the column of water that finally exits the tube. Any water that remains stationary in the tube (after use) and could become contaminated will of course be flushed out at the start of a new fill. art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I'm due some new hose........So where can you buy them please? :-D I prefer the flat type....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Any germs that come through my hose will have a fight on their hands when they arrive in my 21 year old water tank :D ..........................................must clean it one day.....................anybody know a good biological decontamination facililty (?) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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