Jump to content

Gas Regulator Recommendations


JohnP

Recommended Posts

Can you recommend a replacement and supplier of a regulator for the Truma Securemotion. I do not use gas on the move so the securemotion part isn't necessary. The outlet must be 10mm and it will be used in conjunction with twin Gaslow cylingders.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Clesse-branded 30mbar regulator (marketed by Gaslow and others) is reckoned to be the most resistant to contamination. See:

 

http://www.vanplusdirect.co.uk/epages/es133288.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es133288/Products/01-1780&ViewAction=ViewProductViaPortal&Locale=en_GB

 

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/063.asp

 

There’s also a version with an integrated manual changeover device. I’m guessing this has a 10mm outlet-fitting, but you’d be wise to check beforehand if you decided to purchase one.

 

http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/Caravan_Manual_Changeover_Regulator.html

 

(You need to be aware that Truma’s SecuMotion regulator is designed to guard against gas leaks irrespective of the leisure-vehicle being static or moving. Replacing a SecuMotion regulator with the Clesse type will remove that protection.)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before you do this, it might be worth:

 

1) contacting your insurers to see if it will affect your cover as you will be modifying the orignal fittings;

 

2) contacting your dealer to see if it will affect your warranty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest peter
Does that mean I have to notify my insurers if I put a different cd player in my van then Mel?. Or change the colour of the curtains?.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Somehow Peter I don't think they'll affect the 'safety' ... except if you put some absolutely horrific curtains in that distracts other motorists (knowing your fashion sense I wouldn't be surprised! :D ).

 

I'm coming at it from the point of view that he is looking to REMOVE an original piece of SAFETY equipment, which was installed by the manufacturer and therefore could cause concern for the warranty and insurance. They may not be bothered, but better not to take the risk is it? :-S

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Derek Uzzell - 2011-05-15 3:30 PM

 

The Clesse-branded 30mbar regulator (marketed by Gaslow and others) is reckoned to be the most resistant to contamination. See:

 

http://www.vanplusdirect.co.uk/epages/es133288.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es133288/Products/01-1780&ViewAction=ViewProductViaPortal&Locale=en_GB

 

 

Derek do you think if people change to one that does not block up can they expect the contamination to be passed through the pipework and cause long term damge?Has anyone any problems like this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

jhorsf - 2011-05-16 12:41 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2011-05-15 3:30 PM

 

The Clesse-branded 30mbar regulator (marketed by Gaslow and others) is reckoned to be the most resistant to contamination. See:

 

http://www.vanplusdirect.co.uk/epages/es133288.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es133288/Products/01-1780&ViewAction=ViewProductViaPortal&Locale=en_GB

 

 

Derek do you think if people change to one that does not block up can they expect the contamination to be passed through the pipework and cause long term damge?Has anyone any problems like this?

 

Long before the damaged-Truma-regulator saga began in the UK around 2004, there had been numerous reports in France about 'oily residues' in LPG blocking the solenoid-valves of leisure-vehicle heaters and fridges.

 

In fact, when I discussed this problem with Truma(UK) technicians (as I had had two Truma/GOK regulators fail in quick succession), the apparent ability of other-make regulators to tolerate, or be immune, to whatever was causing the problem with the Truma product was raised.

 

My attitude then (and now) is that, if there is sometimes 'muck' in the LPG and the Truma regulator then acts as a filter, I'd rather lose the regulator and have to replace it than have the contaminants pass through the regulator and block heater/fridge solenoid-valves further downstream.

 

As the jury still seems to be out as to exactly what causes the Truma regulator to fail, it's impossible to say with 100% certainty how to prevent this happening. Truma now advises that neither Calor's system-design recommendations, nor using a metal-core gas-hose, offer guaranteed protection. In France, there's been a move towards fitting a filter to the LPG-bottle to attempt to address the in-bottle contaminants (assuming that there actually ARE "in-bottle contaminants" of course!) at source.

 

You pays your money...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Here we go again!

 

Our Truma regulator failed on our last trip away, we currently have no gas supply while I make my mind up what to do regarding its replacement. Another Truma or some other set-up (?)

 

The current configuration is a bulk head fitting with one hose. The regulator is mounted above the 6kg bottles with a fall in the hose back to the bottle valves, which seems to be a recommendation to help prevent blockage. It's not worked in this instance. We have never used anything except Calor propane since the MH was new and I always turn off the gas and purge the system when the MH is not in use for several days/weeks.

 

I emailed Truma last night and they have asked me to send them the regulator for inspection. It's out of warranty at 34 months old so I don't expect any favors from them - we will see.

 

Derek makes a vaild point regarding the Truma acting as a filter and preventing black residue from reaching other critical parts of the gas system and equipment, but also other posters have not had problems with bottle mounted regulators for years of service - hence my confusion on what to do for the best outcome and long term reliability. The last thing we want to happen is the lost of gas while in the deepest depths of France in September.

 

Do any forum readers and contributors have any further experience or thoughts on this annoying problem which seemingly is not getting resolved by the industries involved.

 

Any helpful advice would be much appreciated , as always.

 

Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can confirm from own exp[erience that Truma regulators seem prone to failure and I also replaced it with one from Gaslow (CMR) at a show. Hasten to add it was not my van but one belonging to a friend who was also at the show. I had the spanners!

C.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just had the regulator replaced on my 2009 Elddis Sunseeker 120.

 

Had the modified version fitted (Green button, gas can be left on whilst moving).

 

Touch wood it will be ok.

 

Cost including fitting was £90.

 

So far this has been the only problem with the van.

 

Andy

 

:-D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Clive & AndyB for your replies.

 

Andy - did you replce yours because of failure? or was it just so that you could have the gas on while travelling?

 

To follow on from Derek's point about the possibility of LPG residue clogging up the solenoids of fridges etc. Has anyone suffered from this problem which may have been caused by 'dirty' LPG (?)

 

It will be interesting to know how many appliances have failed because of suspected LPG residue.

 

Regards,

John & Anne.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John & Anne

 

The regulator failed whilst we were at Glastonbury in June.

Fortunately it lasted till the Sunday. Up till then we were running the fridge

& hot water for showers on gas.

 

After Glasto we went to Padstow for a week but had electric hook up so weren't

bothered about the gas as we bar b q'd and ate out.

 

In order for a quick repair our dealership whipped the new regulator off a new Elddis that they

had in stock. Apparently as you say it allows you to run the gas whilst moving. I doubt that we

we'll use this feature though.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a SecuMotion which is getting on for 6 years old now. Its mounted so the outlet is right at the top of the gas locker and, touch wood we will continue to be lucky and not have it fail.

 

I replaced it because we thought that the ability to automatically shut the gas off in the event of an accident was very important and it saves having to switch off each time you set off. As Derek points out it also acts as a leak detector. I never turn my gas off now at the bottle, even when leaving it over winter.

 

We just keep the old one tucked away in the event that the SM fails.

 

Not sure whether this has any relevance to failure of these units but we have never used Calor, only Autogas, the great majority of which was bought in this country rather than abroad which has, I believe a different gas mix..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for your responses guys.Still no feedback on appliance failure though (?)

 

Interesting point about Autogas and the possible difference in mix to Calor.

 

I'm coming to the conclusion that regulator failure is a high probability and one that I should be prepared for by carrying the necessary spares to at least get me out of the problem in the short term.

 

Anymore words of wisdom would be welcomed 8-)

 

Cheers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I understand the advice in Truma's literature, just replacing a standard bulkhead-mounted regulator with a SecuMotion equivalent (plus the matching pigtail(s)) will NOT automatically 'legalise' the vehicle for all-over-Europe using-the-heater-while-driving.

 

SecuMotion regulators come in three flow-rate versions and the regulator SHOULD be matched to the demands of a leisure vehicle's gas appliances. This requirement has proven to be something of a nuisance for motorhome/caravan manufacturers - one reason why SecuMotion has been superseded.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looking at the Truma website, they seem to show the SecuMotion being installed with the inlet from the cylinder at the top, with the outlet at the bottom.

 

Adria seems to install these with the inlet at the bottom, which would allow any liquids in the high pressure hose to stay in the hose instead or running down into the regulator. This seems to be a much more sensible way of fitting the regulator.

 

I have to wonder why Truma show it the other way up after all the failures they have experienced. It doesn't seem to make any sense, but presumably there is a reason for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JamesFrance - 2011-07-27 11:22 AM

 

Looking at the Truma website, they seem to show the SecuMotion being installed with the inlet from the cylinder at the top, with the outlet at the bottom.

 

Adria seems to install these with the inlet at the bottom, which would allow any liquids in the high pressure hose to stay in the hose instead or running down into the regulator. This seems to be a much more sensible way of fitting the regulator.

 

I have to wonder why Truma show it the other way up after all the failures they have experienced. It doesn't seem to make any sense, but presumably there is a reason for it.

 

If you download the SecuMotion Operating/Installation Instructions

 

http://www.truma.com/downloadcenter/secumotion_installation_instruction_de_gb_it_fr_nl_dk_e.pdf

 

you'll see that Adria's method of installing the regulator conflicts with Truma's advice that also matches 'best practice' advice from Calor regarding installation of any bulkhead-mounted regulator (not just a Truma/GOK one).

 

In fact, what you are suggesting (that it would be sensible to install the regulator with its inlet facing downwards so that any liquid forming in the high-pressure hose would stay there) is the very scenario that Truma's/Calor's instructions seek to avoid.

 

The argument has been (from Calor at least) that regulator failures have been provoked not by 'tainted' LPG but by plasticisers (phthalates) leaching from the flexible HP hose as a result of gas condensate being 'trapped' in the hose. There's a summary that you might find useful on

 

http://www.nationalcaravan.co.uk/images/news/gas_regulator_blockages.pdf

 

and the relevant statement is

 

"The strong recommendation of all parties is to mount the regulator so that the hose rises continuously from the cylinder outlet to the regulator inlet."

 

This is to prevent condensate staying in the HP hose and, although it would clearly be possible theoretically to mount a regulator with its inlet facing downwards and still achieve an arrangement where the HP hose "rises continuously from the cylinder outlet to the regulator inlet", it's most unlikely that a leisure-vehicle's gas-locker will have sufficient interior height to make this arrangement a practicable proposition. Hence the regulator is normally mounted with its inlet facing upwards and, if gas-locker interior height is still an issue, with a angled connection fitted to the regulator's inlet.

 

It would seem from your comments that, either Adria gas-lockers are extremely 'tall' inside, or that the Adria is choosing to ignore the recommendations of Truma and bottled-gas suppliers. It's something you might want to pursue with Adria as it would be interesting to have their views.

 

'Muck' in motorhome gas systems has been complained about for years in France and I did once see a suggestion in a camping-car magazine that a really long HP hose be used to combat the problem. The idea was that the bottom of the hose would form a 'swan neck' that would collect and hold any muck, preventing this from reaching the bulkhead-mounted regulator. Every now and again the motorhome would remove the HP hose and shake out any muck inside it. This, of course, assumed that the LPG itself was the culprit and did not consider the plasticisers-leaching theory. The long-hose collecting-muck suggestion seemed sensible to me and I employed that arrangement on my Hobby for a while, during which time I had two Truma/GOK regulators fail. I then swapped to a short hose and made sure that this rises from the gas-bottle connection. Although my own self-fitted Truma/GOK regulator is angled with its inlet facing downwards, Regulator Three has been problem-free since I dropped the long hose idea. Probably coincidence, but worth thinking about perhaps...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Derek Uzzell - 2011-07-28 8:59 AM

 

Although my own self-fitted Truma/GOK regulator is angled with its inlet facing downwards, Regulator Three has been problem-free since I dropped the long hose idea. Probably coincidence, but worth thinking about perhaps...

 

Thanks for your continued responses Derek.

 

Just so that I am uderstanding this correctly, are you saying that you have indeed ignored industry advice and fitted your 3rd regulator against this advice (?) And since fitting it this way it has proved to be reliable - how long has this been (?)

 

Regards,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JohnP - 2011-05-15 11:48 AM

 

Can you recommend a replacement and supplier of a regulator for the Truma Securemotion. I do not use gas on the move so the securemotion part isn't necessary. The outlet must be 10mm and it will be used in conjunction with twin Gaslow cylinders.

 

May I return to the OP, as above? John doesn't say why he wants to remove the Truma Secumotion regulator, only that he has no requirement to use gas on the move, so considers the fitting unnecessary. So, why can't he use the Secumotion regulator and pigtails with refillable Gaslows? Could the Truma Secumotion twin cylinder auto-changeover valve not be added? I wonder if John should discuss his options with Truma before discarding the Secumotion elements. On the face of it, if the claims made for autogas from refillable cylinders are valid, it shouldn't matter a hoot to the Secumotion installation whether the gas fed into it comes from exchange cylinders - be they propane or butane - or from refillables with the autogas mix of the two gases.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John & Anne - 2011-07-28 10:45 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2011-07-28 8:59 AM

 

Although my own self-fitted Truma/GOK regulator is angled with its inlet facing downwards, Regulator Three has been problem-free since I dropped the long hose idea. Probably coincidence, but worth thinking about perhaps...

 

Thanks for your continued responses Derek.

 

Just so that I am uderstanding this correctly, are you saying that you have indeed ignored industry advice and fitted your 3rd regulator against this advice (?) And since fitting it this way it has proved to be reliable - how long has this been (?)

 

Regards,

 

My 2005 LHD Hobby came with a 30mbar 'on-bottle' regulator. I removed this in August 2005 and replaced it with a standard Truma/GOK bulkhead-mounting regulator (not a SecuMotion one) that (according to the Truma/GOK instructions that it came with) could happily be installed in any orientation.

 

To avoid playing about with the Hobby's metal gas-pipework I fitted the regulator at an angle on the gas-locker's inner wall with the regulator's inlet pointing downwards and with that inlet positioned well below the level of the gas-bottle's outlet. And I used the 'long hose' I mentioned above. (It's perhaps worth pointing out that, although there's now 'best practice' advice on how a regulator should be installed, that advice came later.)

 

I discovered that this regulator (Regulator 1) was no longer working just before I was due to go abroad in March 2006, so I had to buy and fit another identical one (Regulator 2) very rapidly. Subsequently, Truma replaced Regulator 1 under warranty (Regulator 3).

 

Regulator 2 failed in March 2007 (in similar circumstances) and Regulator 3 was brought into play, together with a shorter, Truma-branded gas-hose (the long hose was not Truma-branded). Regulator 2 was replaced under warranty with Regulator 4.

 

So Regulator 3 (fitted in March 2007) is still going strong in 2011 (or it was when I last checked!!) and I carry Regulator 4 as a back-up.

 

If Regulator 3 fails I'll fit Regulator 4 and, if that fails, I can probably revert to the original on-bottle regulator (that's carried as a Last Hope back-up) while I think about what to do next.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

May I add a comment based on my experience. I use Calor butane mostly and have the regulator mounted above the bottles so have been following the recommended practice. I have not had any bad experience with the regulator to date fortunately. However, as I always switch the bottles off at the cylinders when not in use I have discovered on several occasions that the tap at the cylinder has become choked presumably with gunge dropping back down the hose. As I use EHU on sites it can often be several days before any gas is used and it has been irritating to find that when required, no gas is available. The solution has been to disconnect the tap and soak it in hot water and work and blow through the opening to clear it. I also carry a cleaned spare as back up. Although there seems to no main’culprit’ as far as the gas itself, I can state that I have not had any similar problem when using Camping Gaz, and none of our Dutch, French, German buddies have seemingly had any issues using Camping Gaz either, so I do wonder about Calor.

 

For other reasons I am going to drop using Calor and merely carry 2 Camping Gaz cylinders as 1 907 bottle has covered all our needs for a 3 month trip to the sun, so why carry heavy cylinders I ask myself.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dave225 - 2011-07-28 5:35 PM

 

May I add a comment based on my experience. I use Calor butane mostly and have the regulator mounted above the bottles so have been following the recommended practice. I have not had any bad experience with the regulator to date fortunately. However, as I always switch the bottles off at the cylinders when not in use I have discovered on several occasions that the tap at the cylinder has become choked presumably with gunge dropping back down the hose. As I use EHU on sites it can often be several days before any gas is used and it has been irritating to find that when required, no gas is available. The solution has been to disconnect the tap and soak it in hot water and work and blow through the opening to clear it. I also carry a cleaned spare as back up. Although there seems to no main’culprit’ as far as the gas itself, I can state that I have not had any similar problem when using Camping Gaz, and none of our Dutch, French, German buddies have seemingly had any issues using Camping Gaz either, so I do wonder about Calor.

 

For other reasons I am going to drop using Calor and merely carry 2 Camping Gaz cylinders as 1 907 bottle has covered all our needs for a 3 month trip to the sun, so why carry heavy cylinders I ask myself.

 

Even though your cylinder-tap gunging problem only seems to occur using Calor(butane), I'd still be tempted to replace the high-pressure hose that leads to your regulator as a precautionary measure.

 

The thinking behind siting the regulator above the gas-bottle's outlet and ensuring that the hose always runs upwards from bottle to regulator is that any liquid/muck that gets into (or forms in) the hose can escape back into the bottle via gravity. However, your practice of always turning off the bottle at its tap when you aren't using gas will prevent this happening.

 

I agree with you that, if a single Campingaz 907 bottle will last you 3 months, why carry anything larger?

 

(Somewhere in the back of my mind is the idea that Calor is nowadays responsible in the UK for the distribution/refilling of Campingaz cylinders. Can any forum member say whether this is correct, please?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Derek,

 

I agree with your comments. It is highly likely Camping Gaz and Calor have some form of unified supply in the UK, as do most fuel Companies for example. However, I often exchange the cylinder in Europe so there has to be a difference there. I switch off the cylinder when not in use as I am cautious, and of course when on the move, that is standard practice. I did check the HP hose as you suggested but found that there is what appears to be a ball valve at the cy;inder end which prevents you 'blowing it through'. Certainly my puff was insufficient even when I went blue in the face, but when connected to the cylinder, gas flowed freely. That raises the question as to why the tap blocked, and I have no answer.

 

I have been watching our Continental cousins and most of them carry only 1 907 cylinder, so I figured out, why not me. I cook mostly with an electric BBQ (low wattage) and electric kettle (low wattage) so thereis little to actually use gas for, and any hob work is done with an external Camping Gaz hob. Ergo, I suspect I am over killing my requirements, and the extra weight saved is a bonus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...