Motorhome dealers, no better than a second hand car sales

[postnote]

Wow Barry spoken like a real MH salesman, I’m sure that MH dealers will appreciate being compared to car sales men. Yes I agree that they have to make a profit, but on the back of broken promises. Maybe just maybe if they offered a better aftersales service then maybe they would get return business and make more profit, now that is an incentive and will survive.

Barry, oh Barry, what in your mind is a sufficient margin £1000, £2000 I wonder. Enough for all the family to drive around in top of the range BMW’s

 

I would beg to disagree with the odd disaster, there are many customers that have more than the odd disaster, but are too sheepish to go back to the dealer and have it fixed elsewhere at their cost. If you took time to read my original post I stated that when I took my Autotrail Cheyenne 696g back to the dealer they said, “yes we new there was a fault in the sargent control box”. There is a difference in the publics eye to the odd disaster and knowing a fault when selling a MH.

 

Once again you make excuses for your profession or lack of. Maybe there should be some sort of qualification, even tyre fitters lower down the pecking order than MH sales men can now do a City and Guilds in there profession. So Barry we have now established thanks to you that these guys are unqualified and lowly educated living off their wits.

Maybe the fault is with the manufacturer, maybe he should set the bar higher to become a dealer?

 

Can dishonest and astute be compared in the same sentence? I don’t think so but must be MH lingo.

 

Look at the likes a BMW, had no one complained about the wheels cracking they would have probably done nothing. I was only that one, then two which quickly multiplied into hundreds they did anything about it. So as you quote “they will have the simple choice of being unhelpful over faults, or going bust. I suspect with the limited interlectual intelligence opt for being unhelpful. Don’t you realize that by helping the customer you have more chance of return business and a second chance to fleece him.

 

Yes we are our own worse enemy, we still trust people, yes we haggle, but so do MH salesmen when taking a part exchange. Both sides are as bad as each other, but unlike the purchaser he is not playing with a loaded hand.

 

I agree with you analogy “We, the buying public are, in general, no more honest or dishonest than the dealers, but the dealer's opinion of us, in general, is that we are out to take them for every penny we can” where I think you are wrong. Reading your post I feel that the previous statement “dishonest and astute” can now be used in context. At least with a second hand car dealer you know they are going to try and fleece you, but I thought a MH sales man was different, a class above, how wrong the public’s perception of this.

 

Maybe in the past when a dealer has been taken to the cleaners, it’s not by a totally unscrupulous member of the public, but a fellow private trader. I expect you know a few Barry.

I’m surprised you say “there are members of the public who have been taken to the cleaners by a totally unscrupulous”, you yourself said “there is no degree in motorhome dealing, and no professional institute of motorhome dealers with a written code of practice”. So are you saying they are ‘Fly Boys’?

 

Find out about dealers, haven’t we started here listening to peoples problems, the MH dealers have a right of reply, oh listen to the deafening silence!

 

Yes I agree, buy with caution. When you see that smiling salesman greeting you like a long lost relative, remember he is sizing you up for how much he take from you. The best sales man is the one that can fleece you, sell you a pig of a MH and you walk feeling satisfied and good. Yes avoid thinking of them as professionals, as Barry has explained they have no training and live on their wit’s . A bit like a fox! There bottom line is how much bonus they can make out of the sale. Name and shame being one sided, ask my dealer I have made it clear to him and his directors what I thought of their service and never will I buy from them again. However I must say that Simpson’s in Gt Yarmouth are a breath of fresh air and most helpful.

 

I see you are indirectly asking for the magazine proprietor to remove these posts, I expect he will as someone has already mentioned that the MH advertisers won’t like it. And It sounds as though you have vast experience in these matters.

 

I expect you will win the day and your sordid profession will continue to flourish.

 

[Guest Peter James]

Very well put Brian.

 

Incidentally, when you add up what a dealer's overheads and taxes must be, its an eye opener when you work out how much margin they need to make on each sale 8-)

[Guest Peter James]

Postnote I used the search facility on this thread - you are the only person on this thread using the name Barry, so I don't know who you are talking about (?)

[bolero boy]

I assumed he was referring to Brian's post?

[postnote]

That's correct, but I didn't want to embarrass that person by naming him!!

 

As the previous member wrote "Incidentally, when you add up what a dealer's overheads and taxes must be, its an eye opener when you work out how much margin they need to make on each sale"

 

Or should it have read

"Incidentally, when you add up what a dealer's overheads and taxes must be, its an eye opener when you work out how much they need to fleece the customer on each sale"

 

Show me a poor MH dealer, just look at the directors cars etc

[Guest pelmetman]

So the secret is out 8-) ..............Brian is really called........... Barry :D

[laimeduck]

As usual, I think Brian has summed up eveything quite logically & succinctly.

 

It seems to me that it would be a much more positive step to name the GOOD dealers, then vote with our feet and ignore the bad ones. Then it's their choice whether to mend their ways, or in time, go under.

 

Jeremy the L'aimeDuck

 

 

[Guest Tracker]

postnote - 2011-05-20 8:16 AM

Show me a poor MH dealer, just look at the directors cars etc

 

On the other hand when you consider the financial investment and commitment needed to set up and run a motorhome dealership I would consider that the owners are entitled to a decent reward for their efforts - wouldn't you?

 

Or would you be happy to do it for an 'average' income - or even philanthropy as some seem to hint at?

 

We all have the choice - if we don't fancy the financial aspects of the deal on offer we can walk away - but I suspect that all too often many of us walk into a motorhome dealership with our rose tinted specs on - and it's only when it does not work out to our satisfaction that we really see the downsides of our own actions?

 

That is not excusing or justifying bad service but we do need to get it into perspective.

 

I too was unimpressed by the attitude at Elite - so I walked away!

 

 

[postnote]

laimeduck - 2011-05-20 8:25 AM

 

 

It seems to me that it would be a much more positive step to name the GOOD dealers, then vote with our feet and ignore the bad ones. Then it's their choice whether to mend their ways, or in time, go under.

 

Jeremy the L'aimeDuck

 

 

I agree with you laimeduck, maybe a step forward would be to name the better ones. I would then assume reading between the lines the ones not mentioned are not so good?

[postnote]

Tracker - 2011-05-20 8:34 AM

 

On the other hand when you consider the financial investment and commitment needed to set up and run a motorhome dealership I would consider that the owners are entitled to a decent reward for their efforts - wouldn't you?

 

Or would you be happy to do it for an 'average' income - or even philanthropy as some seem to hint at?

 

We all have the choice - if we don't fancy the financial aspects of the deal on offer we can walk away - but I suspect that all too often many of us walk into a motorhome dealership with our rose tinted specs on - and it's only when it does not work out to our satisfaction that we really see the downsides of our own actions?

 

That is not excusing or justifying bad service but we do need to get it into perspective.

 

I too was unimpressed by the attitude at Elite - so I walked away!

 

 

I am not saying they shouldn't make a profit or what margin and hope they make a heathly profit. What I am saying is; if they are happy to take your money then give a good after service. Although the MH dealer corrected the faults and I don't like to mention Elite, it is there attitude, more over the attitude of Sue one of the owner/directors. I imagine if a poll was taken, she would be the contributing factor of why people's complains. Oh was I allowed to say that?

 

[Brian Kirby]

postnote - 2011-05-19 11:23 PM

 

Wow Barry spoken like a real MH salesman, I’m sure that MH dealers will appreciate being compared to car sales men. Yes I agree that they have to make a profit, but on the back of broken promises. Maybe just maybe if they offered a better aftersales service then maybe they would get return business and make more profit, now that is an incentive and will survive.

Barry, oh Barry, what in your mind is a sufficient margin £1000, £2000 I wonder. Enough for all the family to drive around in top of the range BMW’s

 

I would beg to disagree with the odd disaster, there are many customers that have more than the odd disaster, but are too sheepish to go back to the dealer and have it fixed elsewhere at their cost. If you took time to read my original post I stated that when I took my Autotrail Cheyenne 696g back to the dealer they said, “yes we new there was a fault in the sargent control box”. There is a difference in the publics eye to the odd disaster and knowing a fault when selling a MH.

 

Once again you make excuses for your profession or lack of. Maybe there should be some sort of qualification, even tyre fitters lower down the pecking order than MH sales men can now do a City and Guilds in there profession. So Barry we have now established thanks to you that these guys are unqualified and lowly educated living off their wits.

Maybe the fault is with the manufacturer, maybe he should set the bar higher to become a dealer?

 

Can dishonest and astute be compared in the same sentence? I don’t think so but must be MH lingo.

 

Look at the likes a BMW, had no one complained about the wheels cracking they would have probably done nothing. I was only that one, then two which quickly multiplied into hundreds they did anything about it. So as you quote “they will have the simple choice of being unhelpful over faults, or going bust. I suspect with the limited interlectual intelligence opt for being unhelpful. Don’t you realize that by helping the customer you have more chance of return business and a second chance to fleece him.

 

Yes we are our own worse enemy, we still trust people, yes we haggle, but so do MH salesmen when taking a part exchange. Both sides are as bad as each other, but unlike the purchaser he is not playing with a loaded hand.

 

I agree with you analogy “We, the buying public are, in general, no more honest or dishonest than the dealers, but the dealer's opinion of us, in general, is that we are out to take them for every penny we can” where I think you are wrong. Reading your post I feel that the previous statement “dishonest and astute” can now be used in context. At least with a second hand car dealer you know they are going to try and fleece you, but I thought a MH sales man was different, a class above, how wrong the public’s perception of this.

 

Maybe in the past when a dealer has been taken to the cleaners, it’s not by a totally unscrupulous member of the public, but a fellow private trader. I expect you know a few Barry.

I’m surprised you say “there are members of the public who have been taken to the cleaners by a totally unscrupulous”, you yourself said “there is no degree in motorhome dealing, and no professional institute of motorhome dealers with a written code of practice”. So are you saying they are ‘Fly Boys’?

 

Find out about dealers, haven’t we started here listening to peoples problems, the MH dealers have a right of reply, oh listen to the deafening silence!

 

Yes I agree, buy with caution. When you see that smiling salesman greeting you like a long lost relative, remember he is sizing you up for how much he take from you. The best sales man is the one that can fleece you, sell you a pig of a MH and you walk feeling satisfied and good. Yes avoid thinking of them as professionals, as Barry has explained they have no training and live on their wit’s . A bit like a fox! There bottom line is how much bonus they can make out of the sale. Name and shame being one sided, ask my dealer I have made it clear to him and his directors what I thought of their service and never will I buy from them again. However I must say that Simpson’s in Gt Yarmouth are a breath of fresh air and most helpful.

 

I see you are indirectly asking for the magazine proprietor to remove these posts, I expect he will as someone has already mentioned that the MH advertisers won’t like it. And It sounds as though you have vast experience in these matters.

 

I expect you will win the day and your sordid profession will continue to flourish.

 

Well, Mr Anonymous Postnote, get yourself a drink, print off what I wrote, put on your thinking cap, and then sit down quietly, and actually read it. At the very least that should help you get the name right! (lol)

What I was, and am, trying to say to you is that we have to deal with the world as it is, and not with the world as we would like it to be. I don't much like it either, but it is futile ranting about it. As they say, don't get mad, get even - but please reserve your revenge for the dealer who let you down, not some other poor sod. :-|

Beyond that, I am a motorhomer, and have never been in the slightest inclined to become, nor am I, in any way connected with the motor, or motorhome, trades, in any capacity whatsoever other than as a humble consumer.

I'm sorry your van was defective, and I absolutely agree that it should not have been so, and that your dealer should not have sold it knowing it had a fault. Clearly, you could not have been expected to spot the fault before you bought. The main point is whether the dealer, having shown himself devious (or perhaps too honest for his own good!), then rectified the fault as he should.

What puzzles me more, though, is that with your stated knowledge of the numbers of dissatisfied motorhome customers, you are, actually, surprised to discover for yourself that motorhome dealers aren't angels.

As to dishonest and astute being set alongside each other, of course they can. The astute thief is the one who doesn't get caught; the mug is the one who thinks himself astute, and ends up in prison. It's a 'ard world, innit? :-D

[Brian Kirby]

pelmetman - 2011-05-20 8:24 AM

 

So the secret is out 8-) ..............Brian is really called........... Barry :D

 

You watch it, or I'll start calling you pouffeman! :D

[Guest pelmetman]

Brian Kirby - 2011-05-20 4:54 PM

 

You watch it, or I'll start calling you pouffeman! :D

 

Sorry Barry............I mean Brian :D

[postnote]

Brian (alis Barry), you might be suprised to read this, but I like you and your thoughts.

[Brian Kirby]

I have no expectations of being liked or disliked, I merely aim to please. Ahem! (lol)

[Travelling Tyke]

Hello Brian,

 

As a small servicing team "We aim to please" was our "Mission Statement".........

 

 

 

But we also added

 

" But some time we miss!".... :-D :-D

[Tony Jones]

postnote - 2011-05-20 11:56 AM

 

laimeduck - 2011-05-20 8:25 AM

 

 

It seems to me that it would be a much more positive step to name the GOOD dealers, then vote with our feet and ignore the bad ones. Then it's their choice whether to mend their ways, or in time, go under.

 

Jeremy the L'aimeDuck

 

 

I agree with you laimeduck, maybe a step forward would be to name the better ones. I would then assume reading between the lines the ones not mentioned are not so good?

 

This would be especially helpful if we had a clear convention of saying positive things whenever they are deserved. Then when the "other sort" cropped up we could simply post

"I recently dealt with so-and-so, I have NOTHING to say."

No-one could be sued for that, but it would ring some much-needed alarm bells!

[fred grant]

dot dot dot dash dash dash dot dot dot

 

me ansums?

 

farawayfred

[Derek Uzzell]

If it's to be expected that motorhome magazines should publish critcisms of dealers, naming those dealers, and that dealerships should be expected to respond to those criticisms in print, then surely (for fairness alone), the magazines should also publish criticisms of customers by dealers, naming the customers, and those customers should be expected to reply. I'm not sure I'd be particularly interested in reading the former, but the latter might be entertaining.

[Mel B]

Brilliant idea Derek!

 

C'mon you motorhome dealers ... give us your 'horrible customer' stories!!! :-D

[John Francis Ware]

Can't complain about the after sales service from Westcountry Motorhomes in Somerset. Gave the best part exchange price by far for a new Starblazer, and although there have been some problems, all have been sorted under warranty reasonably promptly without any prevarication. Would definitely buy there again and recommend to friends. Speak as you find.

[stantheman]

Surely the advantage of internet forums is that people can share their views openly. We need to know about good pieces of kit and helpful service but it's just as important to know what, and who to avoid. Nobody likes to learn by their own mistakes.

 

If all the forums on the 'net showed cautious restraint, they would have shut down by now through sheer lack of interest. Litigation certainly hasn't curtailed their activity. If you can't expose a charlatan in cyberspace, where can you?

 

Just remember to simply state the facts, be able to back them up with firm evidence and not to 'bad-mouth' a person or organisation. Libel is the publication of defamatory matter. To defame is to attack somebody's good name or reputation, (that's assuming they have one!).

 

Anyway, if retailers don't want a bad press they know what to do about it. And on the forums, they do have the right and opportunity to reply!

 

Forum administrators - please note.

 

(by the way, I think all of us motorhomers are just a wee bit too law-abiding!!!)

[postnote]

There are a few points that have come out of this forum subject; most of all Warner publications have not censored any of the comments as far as I can see. I don’t think there have been any slanderous accusations so far, unless one dealer has used this forum to run down another.

 

Secondly I’m sure the MH dealers are keeping quite as I’m sure the flood gates would open should they try to point their point across.

 

One disparagement seems to be inter department bickering, the sales side seems to go smoothly, well they are taking our money, then the service department seems reluctant to correct any faults.

 

Maybe it impacts on their budgets or turnover and they would much prefer to fit after sales equipment were the parts department make a profit and in turn the service dept. makes a profit. Who would what to make a buyer happy if it means none chargeable labour and parts?

 

What is highlighted in this forum, is that people are very quick to complain, but human nature has it that we can’t raise the same enthusiasm to compliment. Is the a British trait that we can't be bothered?

 

[breakaleg]

Its a funny thing isn't it.

Even naming the good dealers doesn't mean that everyone has had a good experience.

 

Five years ago, when I bought my new van, I had an absolute nightmare with the dealer, they had 15 days to prepare the van, and we had to go back week after week to have their stupid mistakes put right.

 

Guess what, the same year they won dealer of the year in MMM.

 

 

[postnote]

breakaleg - 2011-05-30 11:19 AM

 

Its a funny thing isn't it.

Even naming the good dealers doesn't mean that everyone has had a good experience.

 

Five years ago, when I bought my new van, I had an absolute nightmare with the dealer, they had 15 days to prepare the van, and we had to go back week after week to have their stupid mistakes put right.

 

Guess what, the same year they won dealer of the year in MMM.

 

Mine had 14 days to prepare ours and yes they gave it to us with faults known to them. I agree even the bad ones still ply their trait. Maybe it is unfair to name them as I'm sure they don't always do this! But I wasn't riding a cock horse to Banbury Cross, to see a Fyne lady !! *-)