Barryd999 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 For my 100th post I thought I would start a new thread as a spin off from the LHD drive thread. Soon I will be a looking for a new van to replace my Swift Kontiki 640. I basically want the following 6 berth (only two of us but want space) Rear Lounge Front Dinette Over cab bed for storage or if A class plenty of storage elsewhere. Huge payload (well enough to take scooter or small motorbike on a rack on the back not in a garage) Winterised I was thinking of the Eura Mobil Activa 770HS but comments about damp on the LHD drive thread have me concerned otherwise that van is perfect for our requirements. I also thought about an Autotrail Arapaho but feedback elsewhere has me concerned about build quality although I would rather suffer stuff falling to bits than damp. We may well full time in this van and keep it 10 years or more so I have to get it right. Dont want a new van and budget £30-45K. Is it out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 As a matter of interest and because I am curious, why do you stipulate a scooter / bike not in a garage surely its beneficial to have a garage ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Rear lounge = British Fully Winterised = German Often difficult to combine the two but you can still get very comfortable front lounges in German vans. Not all A Class have a double floor but if you need extra storage the drop down bed can be removed and replaced with lockers. A good place to start looking is Mobile.de nearly every German dealer list their stock here. http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/search.html?scopeId=MH&lang=en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 ips - 2011-06-08 10:33 AM As a matter of interest and because I am curious, why do you stipulate a scooter / bike not in a garage surely its beneficial to have a garage ? Thanks for the reply Dont think you can have a rear lounge which is non negotiable and a garage with a scooter in it so its best hanging off the back to create more space inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Ah, I missed the need for a rear longe, must read posts better in future :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 lennyhb - 2011-06-08 10:55 AM Rear lounge = British Fully Winterised = German Often difficult to combine the two but you can still get very comfortable front lounges in German vans. Not all A Class have a double floor but if you need extra storage the drop down bed can be removed and replaced with lockers. A good place to start looking is Mobile.de nearly every German dealer list their stock here. http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/search.html?scopeId=MH&lang=en Thanks Yes generally the British vans have the rear lounges but I know some of the foreign ones do as well. Hymer do one as obviously Eura Mobil does. I absolutely have to have a large rear lounge. It’s just not an option otherwise. I won’t rule out another British van as long as it’s well built, winterised and has the payload for the bike. I would have had a newer Kontiki to be honest but for some reason they have taken out the front dinette and replaced it with a kind of L shaped seating area opposite the cooker. Where do you eat? We were dead lucky when we got our first and current van. We have loved the layout and space and it’s been perfect for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Hi Barry, You will not get a fully winterised British van at the moment but some of them come quite close. I would think it might only be a problem in extreme conditions. If you are fulltiming and are still in the UK in extreme weather, then you are doing it wrong. :D My Burstner is very comfortable in Winter touring, the insulation level is very good. Bear in mind that a rear lounge setup has more glass (well, Acrylic) and will probably be a bit poorer at retaining heat. I sometimes cannot believe the amount of rear overhang on some new models. They would be no good for carrying a scooter. A tag axle or twin wheel rear axle would be the best option, so that has probably cut down some more models. Best of luck in your search. My advice would be something no later than a 2006 model as there is less to go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 All I will add to this one is that I think you will struggle. Sorry, but IMO Lenny has it about right. The winterisation you want points to a high spec German van. The layout you want points to a UK made van. The payload and space you want point to a MAM in the region of 5 tonnes, which in turn, for me, rules out anything with FWD, confirmed because you want to use it in winter. 5 tonne vans with FWD may work (just, with favourable conditions) in summer, but on wet, slippery, winter roads? Reliably? This, in turn, points to a RWD Merc, or Iveco, chassis. Then you are into the likes of the Hymer S class, Niesmann, Carthago, Concorde, Esterel, or Le Voyager vans, mainly on Merc chassis. The rear lounge may be available, but I suspect won't - at least not within that budget. You just might get lucky, but you will have no choice, IMO it will be take it or lose it. If you can find one of these vans for your budget, it will be at the "banger" end of the market, and will be likely to be a restoration project. That is not to say knackered, because they underpinnings are very tough, but it will be old technology, thirsty, and relatively noisy. You are looking, at todays prices, at vans retailing in the £150,000 range, +/- say £20,000. You can guess their age/condition if offered for sale at around £K30-45! If you look for UK registered vans, I doubt you will find the payload, or the winterisation, you seek. That's just me, and is probably the pessimistic, negative, presentation. :-) Let's now see what the cheerful chappies can come up with. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 747 - 2011-06-08 1:10 PM Hi Barry, You will not get a fully winterised British van at the moment but some of them come quite close. I would think it might only be a problem in extreme conditions. If you are fulltiming and are still in the UK in extreme weather, then you are doing it wrong. :D My Burstner is very comfortable in Winter touring, the insulation level is very good. Bear in mind that a rear lounge setup has more glass (well, Acrylic) and will probably be a bit poorer at retaining heat. I sometimes cannot believe the amount of rear overhang on some new models. They would be no good for carrying a scooter. A tag axle or twin wheel rear axle would be the best option, so that has probably cut down some more models. Best of luck in your search. My advice would be something no later than a 2006 model as there is less to go wrong. Cheers for that. The Kontiki we currently have is perfectly fine in the winter. Wilding down to -18 at Christmas. Its not fully winterised but pretty much so. So no its not essential but I wouldnt want external water tanks. A guy on a CL had an Autotrail at the same time we were on it and his tank froze while mine didnt. Agree about the overhang and ours for a long van is not that bad. I suspect there will be a none tag axle out there that will meet the requirments if I look hard enough though. The newer Kontiki overhang isnt bad but they did away with the front dinette which seems bonkers. I might sound like Im unwilling to compromise but we are going to be practically living in it and I dont want to have to change it every two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild rover Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 My brother has just bought a Tribute 720. It's got 6 berths and a lounge/diner at the back. He is very pleased with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Thanks everyone. It is clearly a big ask. Im starting to think that the logical thing to do is to get another Kontiki. A modern 645 or something. This is the one that doesnt have the front dinette but then how hard would it be to fit a table in the front? Depends on the payload I suppose. :It appears to have an even shorted overhang than our current van. I reckon £30-35k would get a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Whils the rear lounge is certainly a UK trait, a number of European manufacturers have had the option (over a long term) for a rear lounge. Dethleffs, for instance, have offered an "SG" version of some of their 'vans, with a wraparound rear lounge (with a full, front dinette). You'd have to check the rear overhang, but the weights go up to 4 tonnes, with a decent length wheelbase, and close onto 600kg payload. If you could pass on the front dinette, but go for the Euro-lounge half dinette, table and swivelling cab seats (something I'd rather have than a "pullman" setup any day, there was always the Dethleffs Fortero, on the (double) rear-wheel drive Transit, which was also available until recently with a full wraparound rear lounge. (An ex work-colleague of mine has one just such). A M/B rack was a factory option on all these Dethleffs. As a (no longer available) example: http://www.caravanselecta.co.uk/motorhomes/dethleffs/dethleffs-fortero-a-6915-sg-cs209837.aspx I am sure there are others of similar configuration, though the option of a rear lounge may be one that is taken by a minority of customers abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 My quarrel with the Kontiki, is that it only achieves its Grade 3 classification by insulating and heating its underslung fresh water tank. That means that to prevent freezing you would need to run the heater, which is 12V, giving a constant drain on your battery, so mains hook-up would become essential under such conditions. It also seems to have a rather slender payload for so large a van, especially if the weight of a rack and motorbike at the rear is taken into account. So, now tail heavy, and FWD. Not, IMO, a good recipe for winter driving happiness. Robin's Fortero is a better bet but, IMO, overbodies the transit, albeit in 3.85 tonne RWD form. Big overhang to hang a motorbike off. Over 3.0 metres high, so Class 3 if you stray onto toll autoroutes! Might be a bit of a handful in high winds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Brian Kirby - 2011-06-08 5:04 PM Robin's Fortero is a better bet but, IMO, overbodies the transit, albeit in 3.85 tonne RWD form. Big overhang to hang a motorbike off. Over 3.0 metres high, so Class 3 if you stray onto toll autoroutes! Might be a bit of a handful in high winds. The overhang is indeed a sight to behold. My friend bought his second-hand (but almost unused) with all the toys, including a tow-bar. As he has a steep drive, one of the first jobs I helped him with was removal of the tow-ball and electrics (as they were leaving a nice trail in the tarmac). :-D It did come in the same layout as a low-profile, though - somewhat under 3m - and still plenty of storage accessible from the exterior and under the rear seating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Thanks again Our Kontiki has internal water tanks. So the new ones are outside. Well thats progress! The Dethleffs looks ok but why did they put such a small rear window in? How strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chudders Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 My Euramobil 810 HS would fit your criteria completely (Not for sale) Rear lounge, front dinette, fully winterised, double floor. nearly 1000 kg payload. 6 berth, drop down bed. Your price bracket would get you one. And just look at the extras included, a second Truma heater in the cab, isoair air cooling system. Electric windscreen blind, double glazed cab windows with blinds Huge storage area between the floors, etc etc. Gross weight 5000kg,s. Fuel consumption ,.... well, I get about 22 to 24 driven sensibly about 60mph. However witha 2.8JTD engine not the fastest motorhome around if you need speed etc. A few for sale on internet at the moment. Don,t know how to do links but one instance is www.travelworldrv.co.uk with loads of piccies to look at. PS I am biased in my opinions , clearly PP www.edenmotorhomes.co.uk have pictures of the non A class version layout otherwise the same. More pictures there. PPPPPPPS And another at www.elite-motorhomes.co.uk Wish I knew how to copy a link directly but not clever enough Regards, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Many thanks. I had seen that model. Any problems with damp in yours (see earlier) Cheers Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chudders Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Barryd999 - 2011-06-08 9:03 PM Many thanks. I had seen that model. Any problems with damp in yours (see earlier) Cheers Barry No none that I am aware of. All seems pretty well jointed and sealed and the construction method is supposed to be better than some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I would still go German...its a no brainer in my opinion. double floored, fully winterised and decent build quality. the more expensive Euras are beautiful. if you want a Dethleff can I recommend German dealer where I just bought my Adria (Dethleff agent as well) Only 4 hours from Calais.... http://duemo-duelmen.de/mobile.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Hi Barry There was a review in one of the mags about 2 years ago on an A-class Rapido ( 90 series?) on Merc 4 or 5 tonne ? chassis, Which from memory would fit your criteria - Double floor, Front lounge was one side sofa & one L sofa, rear U lounge with 1/2 height garage, but I can't find the mag to give you the full details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 flicka - 2011-06-08 11:10 PM Hi Barry There was a review in one of the mags about 2 years ago on an A-class Rapido ( 90 series?) on Merc 4 or 5 tonne ? chassis, Which from memory would fit your criteria - Double floor, Front lounge was one side sofa & one L sofa, rear U lounge with 1/2 height garage, but I can't find the mag to give you the full details. Thanks. Had a look on Autotrader and there are a few 90 series vans A class but not with a rear lounge. did find this one though http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/makemodel/make/rapido/stock-item-id/at8a60b91b2ddc890a012de17aedad202e/advert Looks ok but long overhang and I have no idea of payload. The only ones that fit the bill so far are the two big Eura's or an Arapaho. Are there advantages in an A class over a coachbuilt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chudders Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Are there advantages in an A class over a coachbuilt? I have an A class Euramobil and the advantage over the coach built I think is that, the bed is huge and drops down without the need to move the driver or passenger seats. Although it is supplied with a small ladder we have never used it, the bed drops low enough to sit on the edge and get on the bed. I think there is also much more headroom compared with an overcab bed. You can easily sit up in bed for instance. I am not sure about other overcab beds but that was not the case with our previous Autotrail. I do however have a small niggle and that is the weight of the drop down bed. It is very sturdy but the downside is that it is a bit heavy to put back up even though it is on gas struts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 We have a Auto-Trail Scout that would suit your needs 2006 model Fiat based,6 berth,front dinette and rear lounge,only 6,500 miles on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 alex - 2011-06-09 10:20 PM We have a Auto-Trail Scout that would suit your needs 2006 model Fiat based,6 berth,front dinette and rear lounge,only 6,500 miles on the clock. Thanks, just had a google and it looks very similar to the Kontiki. Do you know what the user available Payload is? I have been talking to the owner of John Cross Motorhomes and he reckons the Kontiki 645 at 4250KG has a user payload after the driver and fuel etc of 500KG. "More than enough for a rack and scooter". To be honest if its true it ticks all the boxes apart from the dining table which presumably can be addressed. Judge. I dont think the water tanks are external. The waste tank is but then so is the one on our current Kontiki which has never frozen even down to -18. Although in those conditions I usually leave it open dribbling away. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Barryd999 - 2011-06-09 10:44 PM....................I have been talking to the owner of John Cross Motorhomes and he reckons the Kontiki 645 at 4250KG has a user payload after the driver and fuel etc of 500KG. "More than enough for a rack and scooter". To be honest if its true it ticks all the boxes apart from the dining table which presumably can be addressed.................................. Then I'm afraid I disagree with the dear boy! More than enough for a rack and scooter? In isolation, maybe, but what about the occupants, their clothing, their clutter, their food and drink, etc etc? A van that size, being used as a full time home, will need at least 500Kg just for the occupancy load. The overhang is substantial, so the rack will be heavy, and will also sit low. My money is on an overloaded rear axle, a lot of grounding problems, and continual concerns about overload. IMO, you'll need about 750Kg payload after driver and fuel etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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