Derek Uzzell Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 thebishbus - 2011-07-02 9:34 AM Anyway, back to my original post, handling hook up leads. I know people handle power tools in the garden, but that is not the same as retrieving a live hook up that has been laying in the grass, or as on some sites, across a road or driveway. We had an incident last year A crowd of us go to Emberton Park at some bank holidays, there are static vans the other side of the hedge from us, a rabbit chewed through a rubber gas hose. emptying the contents of a large gas cylinder into our field, could have been disastrous if any of us had been BBQ ing. Now if that had been a hook up lead, and retrived whilst still live, could have been very interesting, particulary as we packed away in the rain. What I am saying is, get into a safe routine and reduce risks It's always struck me as perverse that, when someone suggests something on this forum that's clearly sensible in terms of risk-avoidance (for example, the advice on reverse polarity), it's pretty much the norm for an argument to arise regarding the perceived level of risk and for that argument to rapidly develop into a slanging match. In this instance, it's plainly best practice to do as thebishbus originally advised, so why deliberately choose to argue about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Brian Kirby - 2011-07-01 12:05 PM Agreed Lenny. The problem is that these things are written, and not said. In conversation, meanings can be conveyed by facial expression or body language, so that the recipient knows (mostly! ;-)) whether the comment is a wind-up, a joke, or serious. In writing, all we have is the bare words minus the expressions (with the possible exception of the smileys - which some just use to try to portray jibes as humour) and it is left for each reader to interpret as they will. How they react, is the author's risk. So, if the intended joke goes sour, don't blame the recipient as being overly sensitive, or lacking humour, just apologise and explain (not directed at you, Lenny :-)). In communication, the onus is on the author to get the message right, not on the reader to arrive at the correct interpretation. Smack on the button, Brian, as usual. In my brief time on this forum I regularly see a pattern emerging - a question is asked advice is given counter advice is given (all good stuff in my book, promote debate, etc) camp splits into left/right discussion on merits of said advice superior attitude rises in one camp or t'other counter comments ensue comment level rises someone takes umbridge shock from poster causing the reaction period of 'no I didn't, yes you did' a calming influence appears to reduce tone of thread some weasely apologies are posted a can't see what the fuss is about post appears the poor original poster is left without the best mix of advice and wishes he never asked the question in the first place This is a great forum, I really enjoy the advice (and the banter), but with the written word it is difficult to 'really' know if some comments are meant in jest (unless you know the poster) or designed to provoke a reaction (unless you know the poster). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 ooops, I plugged my hook up into the bollard of a CL yesterday evening and then unwound it still live untill I got to my van then I handled the end which was covered by a lid and plugged it into my van. As it wasnt raining and the grass wasnt wet I couldnt be bothered doing a written risk assesment. I am still here ..... obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 ips - 2011-07-04 2:52 PM ooops, I plugged my hook up into the bollard of a CL yesterday evening and then unwound it still live untill I got to my van then I handled the end which was covered by a lid and plugged it into my van. As it wasnt raining and the grass wasnt wet I couldnt be bothered doing a written risk assesment. I am still here ..... obviously. So what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francisgraham Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 ips - 2011-07-04 2:52 PMooops, I plugged my hook up into the bollard of a CL yesterday evening and then unwound it still live untill I got to my van then I handled the end which was covered by a lid and plugged it into my van. As it wasnt raining and the grass wasnt wet I couldnt be bothered doing a written risk assesment. I am still here ..... obviously. Wow, I wish that I were as brave and macho as you. I bet that you only wear a seat belt because the law forces you to, after all, you're a real man with no time for this health and safety nonsense. Has it occurred to you that you can only do what you did because of stringent regulations governing the electrical installation that the CL owner has had to comply with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 er ... yes and thats partly my point. Its not a case of machismo (although now that you come to mention it :-D ) I do risk assesments regularily and have to abide by stringent health and safety regs that you wouldnt beleive on a daily basis. For the record I do not condone handling live electrics (even though we all do all the time, I bet you dont stop your wife or daughter from drying her WET hair with 240V ???) Its a matter of common sence if your cables not that poxy thin stuff and you know and can see that its in good condition and that the live end is covered with the flappy thing and that the circuit has RCD then I for one wont be too worried. SAFETY NOTE I do not condone nor do I suggets or reccomend that anyone other than me should handle a live hook up cable. You should allways implement "best practice" and connect to van then to bollard................phew ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Derek Uzzell - 2011-07-05 8:38 AM ips - 2011-07-04 2:52 PM ooops, I plugged my hook up into the bollard of a CL yesterday evening and then unwound it still live untill I got to my van then I handled the end which was covered by a lid and plugged it into my van. As it wasnt raining and the grass wasnt wet I couldnt be bothered doing a written risk assesment. I am still here ..... obviously. So what? Twas sarcasm my friend ... full explanation above. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundowner Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Hi there, "For the life of me", I cannot see what this discussion is all about. It is just as easy to follow safe practice as to take unnecessary risks by ignoring good advice intended to save us from the results of our own foolhardiness. There are too many posters on this website, who appear to start arguments just for the sake of it, thus fudging the sensible and interesting points being made. Perhaps I have no sense of humour, but some things are too serious to joke about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Whats wrong with the odd electric shock?:D.....................Its not that long ago that the medical profession thought it was a cure for mental illness(lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelling Tyke Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Sorry folks........I know that this is a serious post but I have laughed out loud twice reading it this morning. The banter and the "slights" taken along with digression into other contentious areas in some of the posts on this site is, to me at least, one of it good points. We, the forum members, have amongst us fishermen, who's hooks are freely taken. Wise men who moderate and advise. There are those who's points of view are entrenched so deep that others can't make an impression upon them..........Along with those who are indifferent with no axe to grind or points to make give advice and share experiences..........there are those who are always pushing their information, some times, not all good. We are a disparate group, that on the whole, are helpful and entertaining. Differences we may have and long may they continue, in a restrained manner of course. It really does make the forum what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlowie Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Travelling Tyke - 2011-07-06 10:40 AM The banter and the "slights" taken along with digression into other contentious areas in some of the posts on this site is, to me at least, one of it good points. We are a disparate group, that on the whole, are helpful and entertaining. Differences we may have and long may they continue, in a restrained manner of course. It really does make the forum what it is. Couldn't agree more! The banter and the spats are what I frequent this forum for, apart from the actual 'motorhome matters', of course :D The problems arise when the poster cannot use his or her noddle to differentiate between 'banter' and 'abuse', and lets him/her self down. For instance - "must be all the sad ones that stay on Caravan Club sites" - could hardly be called banter - could it? To me it's just plain rude... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 oldlowie - 2011-07-06 11:26 AM Travelling Tyke - 2011-07-06 10:40 AM The banter and the "slights" taken along with digression into other contentious areas in some of the posts on this site is, to me at least, one of it good points. We are a disparate group, that on the whole, are helpful and entertaining. Differences we may have and long may they continue, in a restrained manner of course. It really does make the forum what it is. Couldn't agree more! The banter and the spats are what I frequent this forum for, apart from the actual 'motorhome matters', of course :D The problems arise when the poster cannot use his or her noddle to differentiate between 'banter' and 'abuse', and lets him/her self down. For instance - "must be all the sad ones that stay on Caravan Club sites" - could hardly be called banter - could it? To me it's just plain rude... Typical you have taken it out of context and not read the full post, & if you read the whole tread you will find the only person who replied was a member who has a down on anyone who wild camps or uses free Aires & Stellplatz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlowie Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 lennyhb - 2011-07-06 11:48 AM Typical you have taken it out of context and not read the full post, & if you read the whole tread you will find the only person who replied was a member who has a down on anyone who wild camps or uses free Aires & Stellplatz. Thanks for the advice, I have taken it, and read the whole thread (again) *-) . Your sideswipe at those who choose to use the superbly appointed and immaculately maintained Caravan Club sites was made apropos of nothing, and BEFORE anyone had the gall to suggest that kipping down in a lay-by was a means of saving money! In what 'context' can "must be all the sad ones that stay on Caravan Club sites" be taken as not being rude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 oldlowie - 2011-07-07 9:54 AM lennyhb - 2011-07-06 11:48 AM Typical you have taken it out of context and not read the full post, & if you read the whole tread you will find the only person who replied was a member who has a down on anyone who wild camps or uses free Aires & Stellplatz. Thanks for the advice, I have taken it, and read the whole thread (again) *-) . Your sideswipe at those who choose to use the superbly appointed and immaculately maintained Caravan Club sites was made apropos of nothing, and BEFORE anyone had the gall to suggest that kipping down in a lay-by was a means of saving money! In what 'context' can "must be all the sad ones that stay on Caravan Club sites" be taken as not being rude? Well said Anthony. I think Lenny means me with this ref. wonder why he does not say so, he is wrong though about one thing. I have never had 'a down' on people who use aires or stellplatz, indeed use them myself when I can find a decent one. I do object to the free campers though who persist in staying outside the system completely, they try and give this a bit of glamour by calling it wild camping. These people just cause problems for us all and despite the reasons they give the only one that makes sense is to save money. I use aires where I can for that reason and see no problem with this however I am on holiday and refuse to use the great majority of them which to me, I should say us really, are unacceptable. I guess some are prepared to put up with staying on carparks, which most aires are, fine by me if this is your thing but unacceptable, to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 What's with all this "wild camping" malarky? Wild camping is when you go off with an 8x4 tarp, a bit of wire to make a snare to catch supper and find a dead sheep to use as a sleeping bag. It is not parking a £50 grand van with solar panels, inverters and 16 leisure batteries in a lay-by or field, getting out your lafuma recliners, firing up the gas barbie and relaxing with a nice bottle of red. If however, this is your chosen way of doing things, then fine, no need to brag about it, no need to put others down who prefer to have the luxury of mains powered appliances, and vice versa. Oh, I nearly forgot, be careful with that there electric stuff, if you touch the wires together, you let out all the smoke and it doesn't work anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 donna miller - 2011-07-07 12:35 PM What's with all this "wild camping" malarky? Wild camping is when you go off with an 8x4 tarp, a bit of wire to make a snare to catch supper and find a dead sheep to use as a sleeping bag. It is not parking a £50 grand van with solar panels, inverters and 16 leisure batteries in a lay-by or field, getting out your lafuma recliners, firing up the gas barbie and relaxing with a nice bottle of red. If however, this is your chosen way of doing things, then fine, no need to brag about it, no need to put others down who prefer to have the luxury of mains powered appliances, and vice versa. Oh, I nearly forgot, be careful with that there electric stuff, if you touch the wires together, you let out all the smoke and it doesn't work anymore. Excelent, I love it :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 lennyhb - 2011-06-28 9:02 AM BobK - 2011-06-27 9:28 PM Good point Tracker... could never understand these folk with a ehu cable on a wind up drum ... they just pull out what they need lengthwise, and leave the rest coiled in the drum. Seems more predominant on sites abroad. Sure way to overheat. ! As Brian says it is not a problem providing the cable is not overloaded. Continentals are much more sensible and use electric to charge the battery & run the fridge. What is with the British obsession of having to have electric heaters when they have a perfectly good gas one & then they carry electric kettles as well as one for the gas ring, just carrying extra weight & unnecessary junk. The rare occasion I use a hook up I leave the cable on the reel as I'm only using a couple of amps. also my cable is 1.5mm sq half the weight of 2.5 mm sq British vaners use. I totally disagree! the Continentals 'sensible' NEVER. They 'climb up' and sleep on top of Garages, they never cook INSIDE their vans (they can't ...otherwise why are their kitchen areas such rubbish !) on a typical Scottish Summers day (raining) there is no-where to 'Lounge' so 'Cabin fever' sets in very early. AND we actually pay for the electricity we use on British sites (very pricey it is too !) so we want our 'moneys worth' so we want to heat our water/van/food with it. And what 'Luddites' don't fit Spark Ignition to gas rings ????? i rest my case !! Ray Oh, and I do sometimes 'Wildcamp' as well, just NOT all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Rayjsj - 2011-07-08 7:43 PM .................................. I totally disagree! the Continentals 'sensible' NEVER. They 'climb up' and sleep on top of Garages, Very sensible. Keeps you will above flood level, and out of reach of wild animals. Even for those familiar with its ways, the continent is a very dangerous place. they never cook INSIDE their vans (they can't ...otherwise why are their kitchen areas such rubbish !) Indeed: with all that nice warm sunshine, they prefer to cook outside. Much more agreeable. Who needs roast beef, Yorkshire pudding and three veg, when its 28C in the shade? on a typical Scottish Summers day (raining) there is no-where to 'Lounge' so 'Cabin fever' sets in very early. That is one of the main reasons so few continentals visit UK (that and need for roast beef, Yorkshire pubbing and three veg, which is an alien diet). AND we actually pay for the electricity we use on British sites (very pricey it is too !) so we want our 'moneys worth' so we want to heat our water/van/food with it. That is the other main reason so few continentals visit the UK (that and the fact they own the electricity companies, and prefer us to pay inflated prices to keep the cost of electricity lower for them!). And what 'Luddites' don't fit Spark Ignition to gas rings ????? i rest my case !! Ray No point, they are all outside, in the sun, round the barbie. Why such profligacy on something no sensible person would use? Oh, and I do sometimes 'Wildcamp' as well, just NOT all the time. Your confession will be good for your Soul my Son. Your penance is a week in Scotland, in the rain, on a flooded campsite. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian81 Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Well said Anthony. I think Lenny means me with this ref. wonder why he does not say so, he is wrong though about one thing. I have never had 'a down' on people who use aires or stellplatz, indeed use them myself when I can find a decent one. I do object to the free campers though who persist in staying outside the system completely, they try and give this a bit of glamour by calling it wild camping. These people just cause problems for us all and despite the reasons they give the only one that makes sense is to save money. I use aires where I can for that reason and see no problem with this however I am on holiday and refuse to use the great majority of them which to me, I should say us really, are unacceptable. I guess some are prepared to put up with staying on carparks, which most aires are, fine by me if this is your thing but unacceptable, to me. Usual twaddle emerging from North Wales. Last night counted some 20 MH's parked FOR NOTHING on our local town carpark, from all over Europe and probably many where there enjoying a free concert of Beatles music in the town. But then this is France seen as normal and part of the system. To say that these people just cause problems for us all is UTTER rubbish. Recently we stopped for several nights for free in a UK market town carpark. The problems we saw whilst there were caused by car drivers stopping having a takeaway and just throwing the packaging on the ground before urinating as the local loos were closed. The car park was free and whilst we were there we spent some £120 in local wool and craft shops and over £50 on food in non supermarket chains and bought some 50 books from a local charity shop. so I do not feel that this was free parking and exploit the towns hospitality. Wild camping is not just about saving campsite fees or being a skinflint. We enjoy parking and going out for a meal before returning to our MH rather than having to drive /taxi back to a campsite. When I have askec the French and other Europeans why they don't come to the UK it is the perceived lack of facilities other than campsites and so the UK looses vital income from such free loaders!! I fully respect Rupet and many others preferences for campsites and wish them well BUT please stop having a go at those of us who prefer to stay off sites. We have spent as much as you on our MH's and we make a fair and proportionate contribution to society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 rupert123 - 2011-07-07 11:30 AM ...I do object to the free campers though who persist in staying outside thesystem completely, they try and give this a bit of glamour by calling it wildcamping. These people just cause problems for us all and despite the reasons they give the only one that makes sense is to save money. I recall, Mr 123, that you have been of this view for a long time. I don’t understand why you are so averse to staying off site, or what ever term you wish to give the practice. It’s often referred to as wildcamping on here, but that’s just for ease of reference. I know many ‘overlanders’ (there’s a term for you to Google) and none of them refer to ‘wildcamping’; we just refer to it as camping. Sometimes it’s on sites, sometimes not. To make sweeping statements like you did in the quote, and have done before, demonstrates a real intolerance and lack of understanding. You clearly have some stereotype in mind when you write such drivel and I’m genuinely curious as to what you base your vilification on. So just who are ‘these people’ to whom you refer? What problems do you perceive they cause, and just who are “us all”? What image of camping off site do you have in your head? I acknowledge that a subset of people who camp off site do so just to save money – some of them don’t have much – but that in itself doesn’t make them bad people who somehow damage ‘your’ repute. Indeed you, using your ‘van as you do, will never find them nor will you ever know where they’ve camped. I further acknowledge that there a small subset of people who camp are idiots, and will leave litter, have dangerous open fires, get drunk and be loud, and generally make a nuisance of themselves, but – and here’s the rub – they aren’t confined to people who choose to camp off site. Some of the most anti-social behaviour I’ve witnessed is from people ON sites. My wife and I camp off sites most of the time. Sometimes that’s in a ‘van, sometimes in a tent, sometimes just under a mozzie net. We’ve done this in countries wherethere are no camp sites, or where the nearest camp site is hundreds of miles away and we only have our push bikes for transport. Being far away from any trace of ‘civilisation’ is for most people who camp off site extremely rewarding, and is absolutely nothing to do with saving money. I personally would pay twice the cost of staying on a site to be left entirely alone out amongst nature, far away from the noise of other people’s TVs, dogs barking and kids running around. If anyone gives ‘us’ a bad name, it’s people like you who are demonstrably narrow minded, bigoted, and spout such prejudicial rubbish. When you show such disrespect, you don’t describe my wife or me, nor do you describe any of the people I know that prefer to stay off sites. Do enlighten us, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Well Mr Ian 81 and Crinklyfish and once again it seems you choose to select bits of a post. I have never said I object to staying off site and indeed repeat for those who have problems reading I stay off site on aires and stellplatz. That you cannot accept that 'wildcamping' causes problems means you either choose to ignore them or fail to read threads on here that have dealt with them in the past and bits that appear in papers at various times. I feel your travel in europe must also be limited or you would see many places where M/H used to park but are no longer allowed. As an example one that has recently come to my notice. Their are very few places in the Tarn gorge you can easily stop for a while in a van, one of the best is at a place called St. Enimie where their is a great carpark right next to the river. Their are notices asking people not to stop overnight as it sometimes floods but despite this idiots, like you two, continue to stay with the result the marie is talking about putting a height barrier up. Another example, just a few miles from the Rimy ridge their is a nice site we stayed at in 2009 and a convenient supermarket right on the main road which we have used in the past. In 2009 they had erected a height barrier, I went in and asked where to park a bloke came out and kindly raised it for me, he also explained camper cars had been staying overnight without permission so in goes the barrier. This stuff does effect us all just because increasing number,s are trying to save a few bob in campsite or aires fees. Their was a long thread on here not so long ago about similar stuff in the UK, on the Gower as I remember, and indeed it is becoming a problem in the Snowdonia national park where I live. I can give you loads of other cases both here and europe so rather than giving me all this rubbish about wishing to be alone, camping in unknown spots etc etc when it is simply about saving a bit of cash. Your selfisness and stupidity astounds me, as for saying the French do it, I know this, they are the worst of all and cause the most problems. In an emergency then fine but otherwise their is no excuse for staying off the official spots, their are enough campsites/aires for goodness sake and out of high season they are never crowded or filled with kids. I am aware i have said most of this many times and will continue to say it. I will debate it in a reasonable manner but if people like you two throw insults around you will get them right back. If it is possible for you please, at least, try to be civil even if you do not agree or are to blind to see what is in front of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Please Henry At the risk of stepping on a hornet's nest, I think you are being far too provocative and sweeping. Surely you can't expect to get away with statements such as: "Their (sic) are notices asking people not to stop overnight as it sometimes floods but despite this idiots, like you two, continue to stay with the result the marie is talking about putting a height barrier up." Even if you consider calling others idiots to be conducive to harmony, it is surely your own assumption that either of those you attack would, actually, ignore the notices and stay? Why not assume that those who contribute to this forum are those who camp wherever they camp responsibly, so as to minimise nuisance and leave the places they stop in as clean as when they arrived. Your line of reasoning does seem to be a little like "all who indulge in fox-hunting ride horses, so all who ride horses must be fox-hunters". Given that, it seems just a bit optimistic (even rather hypocritical) to expect your plea "If it is possible for you please, at least, try to be civil even if you do not agree or are to blind to see what is in front of you." to be taken to heart. If you're going to give out, at least accept responsibility for the tone of the response with a good grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postnote Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Oh how I love these threads, someone asks a question or makes a statement of fact, well in their eyes. And after the first few posts we seem to digress away from the original subject and start to banter and berate and in some cases, I donnawhy :-) be condescending. We then seem to go full circle and stumble back on the original post and once this happens people lose interest and look for their next thread to target. :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 HEY YOU LOT, CALM DOWN ME DEARS This thead was a simple statement about a common sence approach to handling hook up leads, gone a little haywire I think. I hate to think what would happen if I mentioned safe handling of gas connections and applliances. 8-) 8-) 8-) . Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postnote Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 thebishbus - 2011-07-09 11:19 PM HEY YOU LOT, CALM DOWN ME DEARS This thead was a simple statement about a common sence approach to handling hook up leads, gone a little haywire I think. I hate to think what would happen if I mentioned safe handling of gas connections and applliances. 8-) 8-) 8-) . Brian B. Dare you Brian.... :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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