What would YOU do?

[oldlowie]

LordThornber - 2011-07-04 7:30 PM

 

Mum is occasionally driving a car that lives on the drive. It has no valid tax disc and indicates no insurance using http://www.askmid.com/

 

 

Did you pay £3.75 to find out? Or did you commit a fraudulent act and pretend it was your own car, so that you could get 'the evidence' for free?

[LordThornber]

oldlowie - 2011-07-06 8:35 AM

 

LordThornber - 2011-07-04 7:30 PM

 

Mum is occasionally driving a car that lives on the drive. It has no valid tax disc and indicates no insurance using http://www.askmid.com/

 

 

Did you pay £3.75 to find out? Or did you commit a fraudulent act and pretend it was your own car, so that you could get 'the evidence' for free?

 

I committed a fraudulent act.

 

Martyn

[LordThornber]

donna miller - 2011-07-06 8:10 AM

I really think that the full facts should have been established before any action was taken.

 

It's not easy or acceptable to me to be establishing facts where someone elses affairs are concerned.

 

I have seen the vehicle driven on the public highway withoutout a valid tax disc in.

 

I used askmid to ascertain a reasonable probability (to me) i.e. that the vehicle is uninsured.

 

No action has yet been taken.

 

Martyn

[postnote]

donna miller - 2011-07-06 8:10 AM

 

I really think that the full facts should have been established before any action was taken.

Far too many people have made judgement based on assumptions with no proof whatsoever. Ok so the vehicle isn't taxed, or just isn't displaying a tax disc, could be for a dozen reasons, several of which are legitimate, if the vehicle is not parked on a public highway, there is no legislation in place reference displaying it, in areas of high vehicle crime a tax disc will get you a few bags of whatever is your drug of choice.

MID, just because you've checked on the website and found nothing against that car means absolutely nothing, mistakes happen, brokers make mistakes entering details, my own car was not on the database for a year because they entered an 'N' instead of an 'M' on the details, this only came to light when I went to tax it online. The car could belong to a dealer (motors, not drugs), they do not have to list every car with their insurers unless they are kept for personal use, when the previous owner cancels their insurance the broker should inform the MID and have the details ammended, the majority do, some however, slip through the net.

As for those saying that "the car will definately not have an mot", how do you deduce that?

 

Uninsured and un-licenced drivers are despicable and deserve to be punished, however, guilt by assumption is not acceptable.

 

What about the word “deterrent” and there is always an excuse or excuses made for these people. Don’t forget when you tax your vehicle; you are in fact being given a year’s notice of renewal, plenty of time. If you tax is out of date and your caught on the road then straight to the crusher. Do this a number of times and it will become a “deterrent”. Let’s end this softly, softly approach, and let’s get tough.

>:-) >:-) >:-)

[Guest pelmetman]

My own view is that I am a very tolerant person and assuming this lady is going through a very tough time at the moment, and I doubt she needs additional stress*-).................Yes she maybe breaking the law...........but considering most of our politicians have been caught with their fingers in the country's til, and the police now appear to be taking bungs to pass on info to the press*-)

I would turn a blind eye, and if I was rich stick a few twenty's through her letter box with a vehicle tax form:D    

[Guest Tracker]

Having just bought and insured a car it took MID four days to change it's status from uninsured to insured.

Impressive stuff I thought?

[francisgraham]

Not paying your annual tax simply defrauds the government of a few pounds. Driving without insurance is an altogether more serious crime. What if she were to have an accident that resulted in the death of a high-earning family man? Instead of his wife being able to sue for a commensurate level of compensation, she will be stuck with whatever the Motor Insurers Bureau considers suitable, and to which all honest drivers contribute indirectly.

It is also a reasonable assumption (and it is just an assumption for the pedants) that, if she isn't able or willing to tax and insure her car, she may well be skimping on essential servicing and the resultant safety checks. Bald tyres and dodgy brakes are everyday courtroom occurrences amongst those being prosecuted for having no tax and insurance.

I would not inform on her until she'd been given the chance to put things right but what I would do is slip a note under her wipers or through her letterbox telling her of the consequences of driving uninsured and suggesting that she either makes her vehicle totally legal or sells it.

The OP does state quite clearly that she only drives it occasionally, so that implies that she does not use it to get to her place of work and, if that is the case, it would appear that it is not as essential for her as it is for some people.

If she ignored my advice and carried on driving whilst untaxed and uninsured I would then have no problem with reporting her to the police. Many people cannot afford a car and manage their lives quite well. It is still a luxury and not an absolute essential for many.

[Mel B]

For those who think it is wrong to report her, think of it this way - if she IS insured and the car IS road legal, albeit she isn't displaying the tax disc for some reason, then she has nothing to fear by having her vehicle status checked on.

 

I still stand by what I said earlier. Remember that she is choosing to do what she is, however if she injures or kills anyone remember that they have NOT chosen to have that done to them ....

[postnote]

pelmetman - 2011-07-06 7:27 PM

 

My own view is that I am a very tolerant person and assuming this lady is going through a very tough time at the moment, and I doubt she needs additional stress*-).................Yes she maybe breaking the law...........but considering most of our politicians have been caught with their fingers in the country's til, and the police now appear to be taking bungs to pass on info to the press*-)

I would turn a blind eye, and if I was rich stick a few twenty's through her letter box with a vehicle tax form:D    

 

So by that statement I assume you condone drink driving if the person is having a tough time. Utter twaddle pelmetman.

And I’m sure all those families who have had someone killed by drivers with no tax or no insurance would love to read your words of compassion.

 

No wonder there are no deterrents with people like you around. >:-) >:-)

 

 

[602]

Hi,

 

Thje first thing that needs doing is to stop this woman, assuming that she IS breaking the law.

 

After that, punitive action should be considered. But it doesn't work like that any more. Punitive action is not considered, it is just churned out of a computer.

 

If Monsieur Plod stops you, and doesn't collect a fine, he will be suspected of taking a bribe. Do we want that attitude in UK?

 

602

[BGD]

Mel B - 2011-07-06 9:12 PM

 

For those who think it is wrong to report her, think of it this way - if she IS insured and the car IS road legal, albeit she isn't displaying the tax disc for some reason, then she has nothing to fear by having her vehicle status checked on.

 

I still stand by what I said earlier. Remember that she is choosing to do what she is, however if she injures or kills anyone remember that they have NOT chosen to have that done to them ....

 

 

 

 

Amen.

 

Spot on.

 

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

postnote - 2011-07-06 10:25 PM So by that statement I assume you condone drink driving if the person is having a tough time. Utter twaddle pelmetman. And I’m sure all those families who have had someone killed by drivers with no tax or no insurance would love to read your words of compassion.No wonder there are no deterrents with people like you around. >:-) >:-)

Eh?............who said anything about drink driving8-)...............I based my post on the info supplied by Martyn;-).............

[postnote]

pelmetman - 2011-07-06 7:27 PM

 

My own view is that I am a very tolerant person and assuming this lady is going through a very tough time at the moment, and I doubt she needs additional stress*-).................Yes she maybe breaking the law...........but considering most of our politicians have been caught with their fingers in the country's til, and the police now appear to be taking bungs to pass on info to the press*-)

I would turn a blind eye, and if I was rich stick a few twenty's through her letter box with a vehicle tax form:D    

 

Two wrongs don't make a right! :-D

 

By the way I'm going through a tough time, any chance of a few quid through my letter box. ;-) ;-)

[nightrider]

If the woman in question is a near neighbour then I suggest the softly softly approach, going at her like a bull in a china shop pointing out the error of her ways could result in your front room windows going in.

[postnote]

knight of the road - 2011-07-11 10:14 AM

 

If the woman in question is a near neighbour then I suggest the softly softly approach, going at her like a bull in a china shop pointing out the error of her ways could result in your front room windows going in.

 

The problem is Malcolm that women always think they can get away it and break the law, with no repercussions. For an example, if they see a Do Not Enter sign they believe it’s not directed at them and continue to drive up it. *-) *-)

They have for too long played the innocent and inferior to men game. But have come unstuck as a result of listening to those poor misguided women’s equal rights activists. >:-(

 

They can’t have their cake and eat it; they have made their bed now lie in it. :D :D

[Syd]

 

I doubt anyone has ever read so much self rightous pontificating over such a simple problem.

 

Taking into consideration the circumstances that this woman finds herself in, wether she is deliberately flouting the law or not, what have you got to loose if you have a friendly word with her pointing out that others neighbours are talking about reporting her for her oversight so you are tipping her off to help her.

 

Then if she continues do what she is doing, report her, and you will then be able to sleep soundly at nights knowing that you have done the right thing.

 

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

[nightrider]

Syd - 2011-07-11 1:44 PM

 

 

I doubt anyone has ever read so much self rightous pontificating over such a simple problem.

 

Taking into consideration the circumstances that this woman finds herself in, wether she is deliberately flouting the law or not, what have you got to loose if you have a friendly word with her pointing out that others neighbours are talking about reporting her for her oversight so you are tipping her off to help her.

 

Then if she continues do what she is doing, report her, and you will then be able to sleep soundly at nights knowing that you have done the right thing.

 

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

 

Syd,

What you say is all well and good up to a point. But how do you know who this woman might be connected to, some low life who might think that it was you who grassed her up and while you are sound asleep in bed only to be rudely awakened by your front windows going in.

I know that it sticks in your throat when someone is abusing the system but let those who are paid to sort those things out do their job.

[Syd]

 

Hi Mate

If you read the post properly you will see that it says that you are telling her that you are doing her a favour in tipping her off so you are unlikely to get any further problems in fact she will probably be more likly to be grateful to you.

I see your post as a way of getting out of "doing the right thing", anyway she just as likely not to be connected to any of the criminal fraturnity as she is of being connected :D :D >:-)

[MandyAndy]

Totally agree Syd excellent approach, but then this forum should be re named the Self Righteous/Self opinionated at times. Some on here have never made a mistake and certainly not to their knowledge broken any laws of the country.

 

What a perfect world it would be if we let the more opinionated on here run either the country or just this forum, I think not!!! *-) *-)

 

Mandy

[nightrider]

Syd - 2011-07-11 2:27 PM

 

 

Hi Mate

If you read the post properly you will see that it says that you are telling her that you are doing her a favour in tipping her off so you are unlikely to get any further problems in fact she will probably be more likly to be grateful to you.

I see your post as a way of getting out of "doing the right thing", anyway she just as likely not to be connected to any of the criminal fraturnity as she is of being connected :D :D >:-)

 

Syd,

You are talking rubbish, she knows full well that if she is driving an untaxed vehicle on the road she is out of order, rather than thinking you are doing her a favour she will probably think of you as an interfering busy body, read my post properly, nowhere did I say she might have connections with the criminal fraternity what I did say was you never know who she might be connected to.

If she found out it was you who "grassed" her up you could end up with your windows or vehicle vandalised or in the worst case scenario you might get a hell of a beating, no, let those who are paid to deal with these things deal with them.

By the way my group name is Knight of the Road, or KOTR, and my real name as you will be aware of is Malcolm, to be referred to as "mate" is to me discourtious, I referred my post to you as Syd affording you the utmost respect, please do likewise, thank you.

[nightrider]

Mandy&Andy - 2011-07-11 3:55 PM

 

Totally agree Syd excellent approach, but then this forum should be re named the Self Righteous/Self opinionated at times. Some on here have never made a mistake and certainly not to their knowledge broken any laws of the country.

 

What a perfect world it would be if we let the more opinionated on here run either the country or just this forum, I think not!!! *-) *-)

 

Mandy

 

Mandy,

How many untaxed vehicles have you seen on your travels and how many of those naughty drivers have you made aware that they are breaking the law? I have made many mistakes over my lifetime but have never as far as I am aware broken the law, broken the speed limit a few times though. (lol)

[Syd]

Knight of the Road

Sorry about the "Mate" bit, as we have exchanged plenty of banter through the last couple of years I thought that probably we were, obviously not, still no skin off my nose have it your own way'

 

I cannot believe what I am reading, where is everyones compassion gone these days

We are halfway through an apeal for donations to help starving families in AFRICA and many people (probably you too) will have donated to that good cause.

That is very commendable but where is that same compassion for a struggleing family in the UK then, oh no none there, just shop them cos it is easier and will make their lives even harder.

Still I suppose that is better than helping her isn't it and salves your concience at the same time.

 

At the golden gate St Peter says, "Ah Knight of the Road what did you do to help the less fortunate"

"Oh well I shopped a victim of society and got her taken to court and heavilly fined thereby making her lot ever so much worse for her and her kids but I sent money to Africa"

 

Gosh will he be impressed, especially considering that there is an over 50% chance that over 50% of your donation will end up in some rich bloated African's back pocket

 

We know that what she is supposed to be doing is wrong and we know that she will know that it is wrong but desperate circumstances breed desperate actions without thought to the consequences so politely make her aware of the dangers of what she is doing and she will no doubt stop doing it

 

I feel really strongly about this matter and if the original poster would PM me her name and address I will willingly send her the money to get her car roadworthy and legal, money is only money after all.

 

 

What say we have a discussion on Tax Evasion then with you as the main subject, simply by going through all of your previous posts. Do you think that shopping tax evaders would be the right thing to do??

 

[Guest pelmetman]

There does seem to be a distinct lack of tolerance among some of the posters8-)...........

As for the authorities I for one am certainly not in awe of them*-)..........As they frequently seem to be shown as corrupt*-)

For example MP's expenses, Police taking bungs etc etc;-)  

[nightrider]

Syd - 2011-07-11 5:24 PM

 

Knight of the Road

Sorry about the "Mate" bit, as we have exchanged plenty of banter through the last couple of years I thought that probably we were, obviously not, still no skin off my nose have it your own way'

 

I cannot believe what I am reading, where is everyones compassion gone these days

We are halfway through an apeal for donations to help starving families in AFRICA and many people (probably you too) will have donated to that good cause.

That is very commendable but where is that same compassion for a struggleing family in the UK then, oh no none there, just shop them cos it is easier and will make their lives even harder.

Still I suppose that is better than helping her isn't it and salves your concience at the same time.

 

At the golden gate St Peter says, "Ah Knight of the Road what did you do to help the less fortunate"

"Oh well I shopped a victim of society and got her taken to court and heavilly fined thereby making her lot ever so much worse for her and her kids but I sent money to Africa"

 

Gosh will he be impressed, especially considering that there is an over 50% chance that over 50% of your donation will end up in some rich bloated African's back pocket

 

We know that what she is supposed to be doing is wrong and we know that she will know that it is wrong but desperate circumstances breed desperate actions without thought to the consequences so politely make her aware of the dangers of what she is doing and she will no doubt stop doing it

 

I feel really strongly about this matter and if the original poster would PM me her name and address I will willingly send her the money to get her car roadworthy and legal, money is only money after all.

 

 

What say we have a discussion on Tax Evasion then with you as the main subject, simply by going through all of your previous posts. Do you think that shopping tax evaders would be the right thing to do??

 

Syd,

I have always considered you to be a cyber friend but have you been smoking that wacky baccy? You

should know by now I am the kind of person who always bats for the underdog.

Nowhere in my posts have I said that i would shop this particular woman or any welfare benefit or tax fraudster it is just not in my being to be an informer, the only time I would go to the police would be for

something really serious.

As for tax evaders, normal type guys not your big business tax evaders, the normal type guys on PAYE have no choice but to pay tax but they do all the huffing and puffing but if they had the chance to evade/avoid tax of course they would.

At the age of 70, 5 years over the official retirement age I think I have paid my dues to society, as a pensioner the money that I earn from my part time work is tax free and that money goes towards paying for my campervan outings and keeping the wolf from the door.

Apart from that I sold some industrial property that I owned last year and that money is on deposit in my bank, yes I might be on a loser due to inflation but at least I won't lose it to some fly by night bank or investment wallah, apologies to CliveH no offence intended.

[nightrider]

pelmetman - 2011-07-11 5:57 PMThere does seem to be a distinct lack of tolerance among some of the posters8-)...........

As for the authorities I for one am certainly not in awe of them*-)..........As they frequently seem to be shown as corrupt*-)

For example MP's expenses, Police taking bungs etc etc;-)  

Well I can honestly say Dave, that I am a really nice guy.