Camera v Sensors

[DavidRon]

Can anyone advise me on the pros & cons of these two reversing aids. At the moment I've got my wife wired up to the reversing light switch, but she's getting a little slow reaching the back window so I need to replace her. (As a reversing aid that is)

[enodreven]

Hi, We have both and i know it won't help,,but in an ideal world i think all 3 options are worthy of keeping ? The sensors sometimes miss very small objects, albeit in most cases ?(so far) that has not caused any major problems, but a few CC marker posts have had to be quietly replaced ?? keep it between us ?? The Camera, i have this angled proberbly a little high but i do like to use it on odd occasions while driving ?? especialy when i know/think someone is behind me but i can't see them in the side mirrors because they are to close, i know this may be questionable but the setup allows me to have a reversed image so the view appears exactly as a mirror would ? As for the partner, this is a must ? and proberbly the best of all, Oh by the way the camera has sound which helps hear what is being said ? if you go for a camera then i find B/W perfectly adequate ? but you really do need a very low Lux camera ? hope that helps Brian

[Mel E]

If you are ever likely to tow a trailer or car in the future, then a camera is a better choice. Provided it's easily adjustable to look down or back (i.e., you don't have to climb onto the roof), I think a camera is better anyway. But do ensure the picture is properly reversed on the screen, otherwise you'll see a mirror image with everything on the wrong side (e.g., in the UK overtaking traffic will appear to be undertaking you!).

[Clive]

For me the answer is simple. A sensor indicates how close something may be. A camera lets you see the child that,s just hidden behind your van. That child could be my grandchild. And don,t forget that the highway code requires you to be sure there is nothing behind when you reverse, and if this means getting out of the cabin and walking around the back to have a look then so be it. We also tow a small trailer with two motorcycles on it and I can reverse this round a corner using the camera. Camera is mounted on an aluminium box section off the rear roof rack and peeps down from the top. Field of view is from the horizon to about half way along the trailer. If I leave the trailer off I tilt the camera down to see the back of the van. I keep thinking of more points, the camera and monitor is far too important to just be a reversing aid. Ours is ON all the time the ignition is on as its more usefull than the internal rear view mirror. Never forget the two wing mirrors though. Details of my camera system can be found at:- http://www.motts.dsl.pipex.com/REAR%20VIEW%20CAMERA.htm

[Dave Newell]

I supply and fit both but personal preference is for a camera. I once spoke to a truck driver who told me this story: He pulled over his 40 foot artic to get some ciggys and newspaper from a roadside shop. When he came out some clown had parked a Vectra under his front bumper forcing him to reverse so he walked round the back of the truck to check, all clear for several car lengths. By the time he'd got back to the cab and climbed in a woman had parked a mini right behind him and he didn't see it. He reversed and pushed the mini backwards into a Merc, crushing the Mini and trapping the woman. Thankfully she suffered nothing more than some nasty bruising and shock but he completely totalled her car and it took the fire brigade around two hours to get her out. He wasn't allowed to leave the scene until it was al cleared up several hours later. He got fined for "due care and attention". He was demoted from artics to 7.5 Tonners by his employer and a cut in pay. But if the employer had fitted reversing cameras none of this would have happened. D.

[Supertractorman]

Dave, We used to fit reverse cameras to milk tankers, until we found out that nearside steps and wings were getting knocked off as the Drivers were watching the cameras and not using the mirrors and looking down the sides of the cab ( You cannot win ) Personally I like the camera. David

[Dave Newell]

The driver should use the camera as an aid to and not a replacement for mirrors but you're right David, you can't please everyone all the time. I, like Clive, prefer to have my camera on all the time as it eliminates the blind spot immediately behind your 'van and yes I have had people following me so closely that I couldn't see them in the side mirrors but the camera showed them up clearly. D.

[DavidRon]

Thanks everyone, looks like it's going to be a camera. Van Bitz have just sent me some bumf and there's a bit about one they install. Has anyone had any experience of this one. Clive. Thankyou for reminding me about the Highway Code after driving blemish free for 40 years you tend to forget! ;-)

[Clive]

Blemish free? Me to (or is that I just haven't been caught?) But when a police vehicle tail gates me why do I always wonder what I have done or got wrong? Camera for sure. Hope the pictures on the web site gave some food for thought. C.

[Mel E]

Reversing in busy car parks (eg, supermarket) is always a problem: even when the vehicle is moving, people still insist on walking behind assuming you'll see them and stop. But you simply cannot look everywhere at the same time. So on my last motorhome I fitted a reversing bleeper. This comes on automatically when reverse gear is engaged (it's wired into the reversing light cable) but does NOT work if the lights are on (so it's silent at night - a legal requirement). So I simply switched the side lights on when I wanted it to be silent (eg, on a camp site where my co-driver was assisting with the reversing). I believe that you can get bulbs with built-in bleepers to replace the reversing light lamp, but I'm not sure that these have the night suppression feature. Before someone tells me, yes these systems are technically not legal on motorhomes. But I think they are a major safety plus, even with a reversing camera, and I was prepared to argue with any lawman that knew the law that intimately!

[Clive]

Yes Mel, "Someone" is right. Reversing sounders are only legal on public service vehicles. Regards C.

[Dave Newell]

Actually Clive reversing sounders are legal on any vehicle over 3.5 Tonnes GVW (MAM) (MTPLM) but not under. At least that is my understanding but I'm with Mel on this one it's a safety device to warn people who might be in the vicinity that your vehicle is reversing. I did once bump a lady who walked past the rear of my van as I was reversing, she gave me holy hell about it. But I couldn't for the life of me understand why she needed to walk so closely across the back of a reversing vehicle. Thankfully nobody was injured but as Mel says , people will do these stupid things. D.

[Clive]

Dave, You have prompted me into some research. herewith some definitive bits :- Legislation governing the use of audible warning devices on reversing vehicles is contained in Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986. Regulation 37 states that a reversing alarm should not be strident, whilst Regulation 99 restricts such devices for use on goods-vehicles over two tonnes gross weight, buses, engineering plant, refuse vehicles and works trucks. One of the requirements is that a reversing alarm should not be activated between 23:30hrs and 07:00hrs on a restricted road. So we were both right - sort of! But if anyone has one fitted comming on with the reversing lights it does need an aditional ON OFF switch to turn it off during unsocial hours! And Campers are definately not permitted (unless its taxed and registered as a goods vehicle over 2 tonne) Over! C. P.S. I do have one of these broadband noise reversing alarms from Brigade electronics ( it was a sample to test at work but it did not get customer acceptance). Camera is best, the person standing or reversing towards you behind can legally be totally deaf. Then what good is an alarm to let him know you are doing the same?

[Supertractorman]

Think we are covered with vans under Refuse vehicles section. Always got waste water and tons of rubbish !!.

[Dave Newell]

Who cares anyway, you're not likely to get done for having a reversing bleeper fitted. By the way the reverse light bulb with bleeper built in has an auto shut off system, you engeage reverse, disengage then re-engage reverse and the bleeper is switched off. Anyway the topic was cameras vs sensors not bleepers. D.

[DavidRon]

Thanks again everyone, After having a fret over Clive's grandson (and my own) I've decided to go for camera and sensors. My concern about the camera is that does sunshine affect the monitor I was using sat nav the other day and when it was sunny I couldn't see the the screen. The other thing is does having a camera thats on all the time cause drivers to pay too much attention to whats going on behind them when going forwards. Clive you're right, what I should have said was blemish free licence. David

[Clive]

The camera / monitor pair I have automatically compensates for all levels of lighting. Its quite un nerving at night as in normal street lighting environments the monitor looks like daylight although a bit grainy. Drive into the suburbs with reduced lighting and the grainy is a bit more grainy. But in the country as you say good bye to the last street light it goes blank. Put the gear lever into reverse and the illumination is enough to get a workable picture.

[DavidRon]

Thank you Clive you've been most helpfull. David

[Mel E]

Clive, I didn't see your 6 April post after your study of the Construction & Use and Lighting Regulations. Having been there myself (to try and produce a definitivestatement of the rules for glider trailers), I must ask whether you've checked for later amendments? Both C&U and Lighting Regs are now very old (1986/1989) and have been greatly affected by amendments, especially but not wholly from the EU. Unless you've combed through all these sets of amendments, you may not have the definitive answer. Sorry! (For example, there are now some 8 sets of regulations that apply to trailer brake systems, depending on when the trailer was originally built, because of amendments that were not retrospective in effect).

[Clive]

Hi Mel, No I didn,t. I leave such combing of detail to the likes of yourself and perhaps Derek! I didn,t think the internet was around that far back either. Please update if necessary. What I found hard to understand is how some public service vehicle and commercial drivers are allowed to push over deaf people but the rest of us have to be far more reasonable and look when reversing. Hearing is not a mandatory requirement for a driving license or for a pedestrian and one consideration is that if drivers rely on reversing alarms to "clear the way" behind them rather than thoroughly looking (with a camera if necessary) to check its clear before and during reversing then accidents will happen. Saying one had a reversing alarm would be no defence in court. In an industrial environment where trucks work and deaf people are not allowed to enter then audible alarms have a function. But in the public domain its too easy to not look. There was a case locally in a large DIY superstore a fork lift truck fitted with a reversing alarm was taking goods from the warehouse into the public shopping area. A shopper got knocked down and hurt quite badly as the truck reversed into him. The firm got fined heavily and the shopper was deaf. It was in the papers about a year back. So I don,t like reversing alarms in uncontrolled environments. The truck should never have been in the public area during opening hours anyway. C.

[Dave Newell]

Having a reversing alarm bleeper, ultrasonic sensors and/or a camera doesn't relieve the driver of the responsibility to watch what's happening and I take your point about deaf people but there are many many more people out there who are just plain stupid and quite often selfish. You would think that any sane, sensible person would wait or give a wide berth to a large vehicle reversing but no, most of them will walk past the rear of a reversing 'van in a straight line even if it puts them on a collision course. Maybe they've never tried to manouvre a large vehicle with poor rearwards visibility so don't appreciate the problem faced by drivers of such but most of the ones I've run into (literally and figuratively) were/are ignorant, rude and stupid. I've even seen a woman pushing a child in a pushchair step off the kerb right behind a reversing lorry while the drivers mate was guiding him from behind the truck. She then proceeded to give the mate a right mouthfull of abuse for not stopping the truck for her to cross. 20 yards away was a zebra crossing! D.

[colin]

Might as well put my two penneth worth into this livly discusion. I will be looking to fit camera on new van as am not to convinced by sensors, may also fit reversing alarm as i think better safe than sorry, it will give some warning to people with at least half a brain, and no matter how carefull you are, if you are reversing a large van unasisted you cannot see as well as if going forward. On the subject of stupid pedestrians, I have to occasionaly opperate one of three cranes, all of which have different controls! I find this much more taxing than reversing a van, so when i was waiting for ferry to Gomera last year was stunned to see a crane opperating in port without being cordoned off and pedestrians walking right next to it, even as the support jacks where being lowered, if that wasn't a acident waiting to happen i don't know what was.

[Mel E]

I don't think I suggested that having a reversing bleeper relieved the driver of the normal 'lookout' necessities. I merely said that I found it a useful aid in letting all and sundry know I was reversing. Went to B&Q today. Walked along a long line of parked cars/vans to get to the entrance. To stay safe, you have to check each vehicle to see whether anyone is sitting in the driver's seat and might suddenly engage reverse and move out. A bleeper at least says 'I might'. Yes I know pedestrians have the right of way in car parks, but who else knows that any more?