Is it time for MMM to launch a government campaign to promote a UK Aires network

[Guest pelmetman]

Daniel the editor - 2011-07-18 8:22 PMWell that's a thread that takes some reading to get through! There is a fair bit of negativity here, which makes me wonder just what the appetite is for UK aires.My feeling at present is that this is not the right issue for MMM to run a campaign on. That's not to say this isn't a valid issue, but I am not convinced it is right for MMM.I will discuss it further internally and externally and gauge opinion.I will also come back to this thread and see if there are more positive comments in favour of UK aires.Thanks Daniel

So its not a no then:-D........................

[david lloyd]

Daniel the editor - 2011-07-18 8:22 PM

 

Well that's a thread that takes some reading to get through!

There is a fair bit of negativity here, which makes me wonder just what the appetite is for UK aires.

My feeling at present is that this is not the right issue for MMM to run a campaign on.

That's not to say this isn't a valid issue, but I am not convinced it is right for MMM.

I will discuss it further internally and externally and gauge opinion.

I will also come back to this thread and see if there are more positive comments in favour of UK aires.

Thanks

Daniel

 

Although not a definitive description of the process I went through the article I refer to above Daniel (Aires and Graces, MMM December 2009) does indicate some of the processes that I had to go through to get to a satisfactory outcome as far as working with a Local Authority is concerned. Incidentally, although I said the Aire was no longer available (as reported on Graham Hadfield's site - www.motorhomeparking.co.uk - the signage remains in place on the coach park at Guisborough so this needs further clarification.

 

Just some other food for thought too.

 

Graham Hambly did an excellent job at collating information on motorhome friendly parking (which I haven't seen recently inn MMM) and this is another topic which needs regular 'airing' (sorry) as there are still many towns that do not have suitable designated daytime parking for motorhomes - in fact, this was the starting point for getting the Guisborough Aire. It was his incisive comments at the end of his article

 

"If motorcaravanners want similar community-provided facilities in the UK, then we will each need to start with our home area. Persuading your local council may be an uphill struggle - but until we persuade our own civic body to get off its bottom and do something, we have little right to complain about apathy in other places"

 

that prompted me to take the action I did. It is not a massive leap from providing such daytine parking to letting it be used for overnight parking - mainly a change to the Legal Parking Orders.

 

I believe Which Motorcaravan is a sister publication and it may be that the effort of mounting a campiagn can be shared amongst other interested motorhome press?

 

Although the main caravan clubs may not support the notion of overnight aires there are other organisations such as The Motorcaravanners Club (who I recommended to Redcar and Cleveland Council if they wished to seek further opinion) who would readily support such a campaign. Most, if not all, the motorhome owners clubs would certainly be interested but would need a central focal point - or campaign leader organisation.

 

Although I still believe that (in the case of Local Authorities) the strongest approach is by motorhomers themselves, there is much to commend an organised central approach as all the arguments need only setting out once for others to follow and any success created maintains forward momentum with other areas - one of the things Local Authorities hate is being seen to be 'lagging behind' other Authorities! Dissemination of information becomes much easier if it can be compiled and co-ordinated through one central point. In this regard, MMM and Warners in general can reach a far wider motorhoming public to engender enthusiasm and support for such a network rather than the occasional thread on any one forum.

 

Finally, even if Daniel and MMM do take up the challenge this, in itself, will hardly be sufficient to win the day. It will still need the widesp[read support and action of as many motorhomers as possible to bring it about and the main danger is that enough people do not get actievly behind the campaign with practical support.

 

Glad to see you are at least taking the issue seriously Daniel - whatever the outcome of your deliberations.

 

David

[Guest pelmetman]

As I understand it an E-petition needs a 100,000 signatures to receive an airing in the House of Commons, and from Google I understand there is 112,000 motorhomes on our roads and nearly half a million caravans8-)

So it would be useful if we could get some of the tugging community on board as well:D 

[duetto owner]

its a great idea, but the reason it will not get done, is this country is so soft on gypseys they will invade thiese places and wreck them that is why so many car parks now have anti pikey bars.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

duetto owner - 2011-07-19 5:36 PM

 

its a great idea, but the reason it will not get done, is this country is so soft on gypseys they will invade thiese places and wreck them that is why so many car parks now have anti pikey bars.

 

And height barriers, and "Parking Eye" the modern day highway robbers.

[Andy_C]

david lloyd - 2011-07-19 2:18 PM

Incidentally, although I said the Aire was no longer available (as reported on Graham Hadfield's site - www.motorhomeparking.co.uk - the signage remains in place on the coach park at Guisborough so this needs further clarification.

I informed Graham about the closure of Guisborough, I had it listed on my site here: http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/uk-motorhome-stopovers.shtml

 

I try to contact, on an annual basis, all councils which have parking listed on my site, the response from Redcar and Cleveland council in March this year was that, due to lack of use, the experiment was discontinued.

 

I believe that there was opposition from some councillors all along, and the lack of evidence of benefits from the scheme was enough to ensure that its continuation was successfully opposed.

 

AndyC

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

We received complaints that people were using the public conveniences to empty their chemical toilets. The toilets (which very often, had just been cleaned) had to be redone due to spillages. Complaints were also made that the stream had been used for the same purpose and very often trees etc were used to hang washing on! At the Transport Committee Meeting held on 30th November 2010 the following recommendation was taken:

 

Taken from the website mentioned above, I was shot down in flames on another thread that this would be the result of people emptying cassettes in public toilets. >:-(

[robertandjean]

Daniel the editor - 2011-07-18 8:22 PM

 

Well that's a thread that takes some reading to get through!

There is a fair bit of negativity here, which makes me wonder just what the appetite is for UK aires.

My feeling at present is that this is not the right issue for MMM to run a campaign on.

That's not to say this isn't a valid issue, but I am not convinced it is right for MMM.

I will discuss it further internally and externally and gauge opinion.

I will also come back to this thread and see if there are more positive comments in favour of UK aires.

Thanks

Daniel

 

Well a good start Daniel might be for MMM to take a more positive line on the use of aires in France, Germany etc. In the past MMM have certainly not always accentuated the positive aspects of aires use but always seemed keen to point out percieved negative aspects. How about a fiver for an aire alongside the forty quid for a site feature ? (note aires are much less expensive than sites!). Or why not take a thread such as aires updates or 100 best aires and put in the mag (we would not expect any payment for any of our contributions).

Re U.K. aires then a start MMM could make would be to publish, perhaps as a "free" booklet distributed with the mag, a list of the "aires"already in the U.K. (eg Dover seafront, Southport Pleasure Land etc), together with the Stopovers from the rival mag (some co-operation needed here), Britstops (again co-op needed) pub stops scheme, well known overnighting places etc . This would at least form a basis of a national network that maybe could be built upon.

Sending this from aire at Charmes (dept 88). On marked grass pitch (hard standing also available) right on canalside, electric hook-up, water tap etc. town just a short walk, for 6€/night with internet for 3 € for 48 hours. Think U.K. has still a way to go!

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

"Aires already in the UK", you than say DOVER, seafront how in any way can that be described as an Aire, yes some park there, we have in fact, but an "Aire it definitely is not.

 

If you need further proof of the depressing nature of the likelihood of "Aires" ever happening in any meaningful way in the UK, have read here, a very commendable effort to get something off the ground, but depressing reading none the less.

 

http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/

[Gwendolyn]

robertandjean - 2011-07-19 7:54 PM

 

Well a good start [...] might be for MMM to take a more positive line on the use of aires in France, Germany etc. In the past MMM have certainly not always accentuated the positive aspects of aires use but always seemed keen to point out percieved negative aspects. How about a fiver for an aire alongside the forty quid for a site feature ? (note aires are much less expensive than sites!).

 

But I though the argument was that it's not about cost?

And the price comparison is a little extreme. We have never paid £40 a night for a site; nor would we.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

I agree, whilst we paid up to 9 Euro for an Aire, we also paid as little as E10.50 for some excellent municipal, and in one case a private sites.

[robertandjean]

Gwendolyn - 2011-07-19 8:49 PM

 

robertandjean - 2011-07-19 7:54 PM

 

Well a good start [...] might be for MMM to take a more positive line on the use of aires in France, Germany etc. In the past MMM have certainly not always accentuated the positive aspects of aires use but always seemed keen to point out percieved negative aspects. How about a fiver for an aire alongside the forty quid for a site feature ? (note aires are much less expensive than sites!).

 

But I though the argument was that it's not about cost?

And the price comparison is a little extreme. We have never paid £40 a night for a site; nor would we.

 

You misunderstand; it is not the cost of a night on a site or aire we are quoting but the point that MMM run a feature where they pay forty pounds for site reports. Just suggesting that it would be good if they ran a similar feature on aires and maybe call it a fiver for an aire. (tongue in cheek that they should pay less for this than site feature, as aires often cost less than sites)

Re Dover, then of course 1 foot it is not an aire de service, but is an aire de stationment! Seriously it is just an idea to compile a list of aires/stopover places that we felt might be useful.

Hope this clears up any confusion.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

There is a list compiled here, perhaps MMM could run a feature to highlight this website exists ? But reading the entries it seems that it's information is in constant change due to change in council policies etc.

 

http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/uk-motorhome-stopovers.shtml

 

But back to Dover, as far as I'm aware there is no officially designated Motor-home parking sign, only a car and caravan sign towards the far end. We have slept there, but always wonder if we may get a ticket. So to be pedantic I don't think it could even be described as an Aire de stationnement officially, perhaps Dover council could make this issue clear for everyone.

[crinklystarfish]

The reality is that the utopia of a network based on local authorities means trying to persuade hundreds of different public officials, each with widely different life-views, and each accountable to the electorate, who are furthermore tied down with hideous bureaucracy. It isn't going to happen.

Drawing a slight parallel, truck stops in local authority care are being closed down left right and centre, leaving drivers at more risk of theft and robbery having been forced to stop on trunk roads. This is often because of complaints from local residents. Whether justified or not, it further illustrates how local authorities are subject to pressures from all angles.

Imagine instead someone with the tenacity of Graham or David putting their efforts into forging a deal with the CEO of Little Chef (substitute your own landowner here) to allow a proportion of their car parks to be used as overnight stops. Whammy! instant UK-wide aire network with partner of choice benefitting from pulling in trade.

Another way to progress might be to sell the concept to the British Tourist Authority. They, in association with the national boards actually have a formal remit to increase the tourist trade, be it for residents or foreign visitors. They could make it happen; it's actually their job to make it happen. I wonder if they've been approached?

Don't mean to be negative and kudos to all having a go but battling with this notion at local authority level is next to hopeless. This isn't France, we are culturally and politically very different, the sooner this is realised, the less time will be wasted.

[Gwendolyn]

robertandjean - 2011-07-20 8:56 AM

 

Gwendolyn - 2011-07-19 8:49 PM

 

robertandjean - 2011-07-19 7:54 PM

 

Well a good start [...] might be for MMM to take a more positive line on the use of aires in France, Germany etc. In the past MMM have certainly not always accentuated the positive aspects of aires use but always seemed keen to point out percieved negative aspects. How about a fiver for an aire alongside the forty quid for a site feature ? (note aires are much less expensive than sites!).

 

But I though the argument was that it's not about cost?

And the price comparison is a little extreme. We have never paid £40 a night for a site; nor would we.

 

You misunderstand; it is not the cost of a night on a site or aire we are quoting but the point that MMM run a feature where they pay forty pounds for site reports. Just suggesting that it would be good if they ran a similar feature on aires and maybe call it a fiver for an aire. (tongue in cheek that they should pay less for this than site feature, as aires often cost less than sites)

 

My reference was to your previous posts where you say that you are not governed by price when you choose to stay on Aires. If I have misunderstood your allusion, it is because I don’t read MMM, and am basing my observations on what I read on the Forum.

[francisgraham]

There is no doubt that partnering a national chain such as Little Chef or a supermarket group would be much more effective, both in cost and time, than dealing with 500 local councils. 

However, is this what this thread is about? I thought that it is about establishing aires, whereas this suggestion seems aimed at night halts, which are very different.

Everyone tells me that aires should be within walking distance of town and village centres, where we can show our gratitude by patronising local businesses, but aren't Little Chefs and supermarkets generally sited well outside of town centres?

I am struggling to think of a chain of anything that is suitable for proper aires. Is there a national chain that has car parks large enough for use as aires and whose branches are close enough to town centres? And as for the smaller villages............?

Night halts using Little Chef for instance may be very useful but again, how long will the company allow motorhomers to park free without spending a penny? Whilst some may well enjoy a Little Chef breakfast, others will soon realise that it would have cost a lot less to use the CL two miles off the main road. As they sit there cooking their eggs in their 'vans the manager of the Little Chef will be noting that he may well have lost six paying customers who couldn't park their cars because of the number of 'vans, and this could happen on popular routes near to ferry terminals etc.

Edited to say: I accept that my final sentence will not applicable on supermarket car parks, which tend to be much larger.

[crinklystarfish]

Quite right.

The suggestions were just to get the penny to drop for people. We need to approach the 'formal stopover / parking space' thing from a different angle, trying to emulate the local public body approach in France is a waste of time.

The French model is useless here. Other models might work.

[robertandjean]

1footinthegrave - 2011-07-20 9:21 AM

 

There is a list compiled here, perhaps MMM could run a feature to highlight this website exists ? But reading the entries it seems that it's information is in constant change due to change in council policies etc.

 

http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/uk-motorhome-stopovers.shtml

 

But back to Dover, as far as I'm aware there is no officially designated Motor-home parking sign, only a car and caravan sign towards the far end. We have slept there, but always wonder if we may get a ticket. So to be pedantic I don't think it could even be described as an Aire de stationnement officially, perhaps Dover council could make this issue clear for everyone.

 

Good idea re the list and sure it could be added to/amended each month by the MMM newshounds. Re Dover then this just through this in as a quick example of where motorhomes do stay overnight (we always stay at French side of the water!) and might be included in a "British Aires/stopover List" no more no less.

[robertandjean]

Gwendolyn - 2011-07-20 9:47 AM

 

robertandjean - 2011-07-20 8:56 AM

 

Gwendolyn - 2011-07-19 8:49 PM

 

robertandjean - 2011-07-19 7:54 PM

 

Well a good start [...] might be for MMM to take a more positive line on the use of aires in France, Germany etc. In the past MMM have certainly not always accentuated the positive aspects of aires use but always seemed keen to point out percieved negative aspects. How about a fiver for an aire alongside the forty quid for a site feature ? (note aires are much less expensive than sites!).

 

But I though the argument was that it's not about cost?

And the price comparison is a little extreme. We have never paid £40 a night for a site; nor would we.

 

You misunderstand; it is not the cost of a night on a site or aire we are quoting but the point that MMM run a feature where they pay forty pounds for site reports. Just suggesting that it would be good if they ran a similar feature on aires and maybe call it a fiver for an aire. (tongue in cheek that they should pay less for this than site feature, as aires often cost less than sites)

 

My reference was to your previous posts where you say that you are not governed by price when you choose to stay on Aires. If I have misunderstood your allusion, it is because I don’t read MMM, and am basing my observations on what I read on the Forum.

 

Gwendolyn, sorry see where confusion arose. We thought everyone would read MMM and therefore be aware of the feature whereby readers send in a site report and in return are given, we think 40 pounds for it. Just seemed an idea to do something similar for aires. Then said in a light hearted way that this might be called a fiver for an aire as aires are often seen as a "cheap" alternative to sites. All the best.

[Gwendolyn]

robertandjean - 2011-07-20 11:37 AM

 

Gwendolyn - 2011-07-20 9:47 AM

 

robertandjean - 2011-07-20 8:56 AM

 

Gwendolyn - 2011-07-19 8:49 PM

 

robertandjean - 2011-07-19 7:54 PM

 

Well a good start [...] might be for MMM to take a more positive line on the use of aires in France, Germany etc. In the past MMM have certainly not always accentuated the positive aspects of aires use but always seemed keen to point out percieved negative aspects. How about a fiver for an aire alongside the forty quid for a site feature ? (note aires are much less expensive than sites!).

 

But I though the argument was that it's not about cost?

And the price comparison is a little extreme. We have never paid £40 a night for a site; nor would we.

 

You misunderstand; it is not the cost of a night on a site or aire we are quoting but the point that MMM run a feature where they pay forty pounds for site reports. Just suggesting that it would be good if they ran a similar feature on aires and maybe call it a fiver for an aire. (tongue in cheek that they should pay less for this than site feature, as aires often cost less than sites)

 

My reference was to your previous posts where you say that you are not governed by price when you choose to stay on Aires. If I have misunderstood your allusion, it is because I don’t read MMM, and am basing my observations on what I read on the Forum.

 

Gwendolyn, sorry see where confusion arose. We thought everyone would read MMM and therefore be aware of the feature whereby readers send in a site report and in return are given, we think 40 pounds for it. Just seemed an idea to do something similar for aires. Then said in a light hearted way that this might be called a fiver for an aire as aires are often seen as a "cheap" alternative to sites. All the best.

 

Oh dear!!! Misunderstanding indeed!!!! £40 paid per article, not for a night’s site fees LOL!!!!

Perhaps I should read MMM then??? My husband buys it now and again.....

Cheers,

Gwendolyn

 

[Madmaggott]

francisgraham - 2011-07-16 11:04 AM

As for the myth that we'll all go and eat in the restaurants and visit the local shops, think on this. If you really want to visit Tenby let's say, and you refuse to go because the local council hasn't provided an aire or two, are you the sort of person who will spend money eating out?

If you're unwilling to shell out a small amount for a CL or a simple site then you're clearly not going to be flashing the cash around the village.

 

Actually we are very willing to pay a small charge to park overnight on a (generally underused at night) centrally located parking area; especially if there is also somewhere to empty out waste responsibly.  We prefer to eat out and would do so out of preference as long as we can walk back to our van in the knowledge that we will not find it either clamped or with a parking fine attached!  Charges can be levied via the usual parking machines.

What I will not do is to pay up to £20-£25 to park for 10 hours or so and then have to self cater because the site is too far away from a town or village to be able to walk to find an eatery. 

We have found that the only fairly sure way of finding parking space in GB is to arrive fairly early at a car park otherwise there will not be 2 spaces available at the end of a row where we will have room to exit the space without sideswiping the next door vehicle with our rear.  Oversized spaces are as rare as hen's teeth in GB car parks. 

Far from exploring more of Britain in our van, as we originally intended, we actually visit places in Britain less than before.  We just overnight in lay-bys en-route to the continent or our relative's driveways.  However, we have just joined the motorcaravanners club in an attempt to rectify this as we understand that their rallies utilise places such as village halls, schools, etc; so we might now see more of this lovely country. 

The fact is; if we wait for councils to allow us to visit their town's and village's we will wait in vain.

[ham]

Yes perhaps the magazine could publish reviews on aires .

Regards Dover on the top end near the Outlet centre there is a sign showing a caravan with a black line through it. I was advised by a traffic warden that I should park lower down along marine parade and as long as I occupied one bay and paid during the day I would be ok…

Just another on Aires in the Uk. I was at Tredegar house Newport, Yesterday the House as an overflow car park and over night some travellers had arrived and cut the chains locking the car park as it only used when there are large events. The worrying fact was There were 18 caravans and assorted vans and pick up trucks and 2 motor homes Yes these were with the travellers. The council official I was with noted that the motor homes was something new and had not seen it before. And we often talk about motor home stopovers and he stated if this was going to be the trend with travellers using motor homes. The any stopover idea would not get of the ground... On speaking to the owner of one of the motor homes he explained he found it easier to park and do is ground work than try and park his car caravan and pick up truck asked about the waste building material that was in is pickup truck he said yes we will just dump it here and the council will take it away. As we left the police arrived and started to check the vehicles for tax and insurance As there is a small shopping area and entrance to the Caravan club site hieght barriers would have gone up long ago

[Andy_C]

Just to prove that it CAN be done...

 

See this from Havant Borough Council: THE BOROUGH OF HAVANT OFF-STREET PARKING PLACES ORDER 2011

 

They are also planning to put in a toilet disposal facility in August.

 

Andy