PVC prices !!

[ips]

Went for some calor gas and ended up having a browse at dealers on sunday. We could not beleive the cost of an autosleepers (trident I think) PVC ......... £51k for a tiny little van with no toilet, am I missing something cos I cant see were £51k is. There were other vans of similar size and spec at similar cost, some even had a tent as a roof !!

I dont get it

 

[mikeyb]

Apparently, it's what they start with, and the way it's converted that makes them so expensive. Firstly , panel vans are more expensive to buy than are the chassis cabs, that coachbuilts are built on. Secondly, panel vans are so much more difficult to work on whilst being converted. Access is often a problem, working in such confined spaces, fixtures and fittings, plumbing, wiring etc all has to work around the base vehicle structure. On the other hand, coachbuilts have their interiors built upon just a floor on the chassis, with clear and easy access around all sides. The body is usually the last thing to be fitted. PVCs are incredibly labour intensive compared with the other types of motorhome. Hope that this goes some way towards an explanation. Mike.

[ips]

Yes point taken.

ok from another perspective, who pays £51k for a tiny van with no toilet ? Yes there easy to drive, you could use it as an everyday vehicle and get down country roads and wild camp etc etc BUT I for one would not like to go wild in a tiny thing with no ammenities. I personally dont see how "usable" these types of vans are.

Unless they were sub 20k I couldnt justify the cost against the lack of space and spec.

Each to there own and I am not knocking anyone elses requirements etc etc etc its just my opinion.

 

I say again £51 THOUSAND QUID for a tiny van with a rear bench seat and very little else and no toilet :-S

[pepe63xnotuse]

I'm very much with you on this...I looked at the "down-sizing" route,only to be stopped dead in my tracks when I realise the cost of PVCs...

We did look at a Wildax conversion about 18 months back and I seem to recall them being quite reasonable but even their range is now £40-43K... :-S

 

 

[Basil]

Yes we agree with ips too.

 

We were looking at the posssibility of downsizing but there is absolutely no way we can justify it. I also don't buy the reasons given for the exorbitant cost and I believe that it is, as usual (particularly within the UK), about not what it is worth but what the market will stand. Whilst there is a very 'needy' market for PVC's the over inflated prices will continue and without justification in my opinion. There may be some justification in the first one converted being a little more difficult and time consuming, but once it is 'cracked' the subsequent builds are just clones of the first with everything being able to be preprepared.

 

The Wildax was one that we also considered and when they were offering me one for £29000 to £31000 although higher than an equivelent coachbuilt with their as supplied spec they were streaks ahead of other PVC manufacturers on price, but it looks like they too have joined the rip off brigade at over £40000.

 

So no, in my opinion the usual 'lets see what we can rip out of the consumer' is why the cost of these products is well over the top, the answer is vote with your feet and take your money elsewhere and buy another coachbuilt far better VFM.

 

Bas

 

P.S. You can buy, retail, a Ctroen Relay LWB high top for £15340 inc vat against £10999 for chassis cab so the cost difference of less than £4500 does not justify it to me! The convertors no doubt get it cheaper as well.

[mel wood]

IPS - It is indeed "each to their own". In June 2002 we bought for £25000 a new Auto-Sleepers Trident. It was EXACTLY the vehicle we wanted at that time and for the next six and a half years. In fact we had spent 4 years considering some sort of camper van or small coachbuilt and the Trident was our initial "ideal van". At the time we really only used sites with facilities. (It was over 3 years before we even took the porta-potti out of its plastic bag and set it up in a toilet tent.) The Trident was an excellent dual (indeed multi-purpose) verhicle and I used it to travel to work daily. It was an excellent load carrier, especially with the bed folded out. It was most useful as a van - when our daughter moved we were able to carry a lot of her stuff. We really were pleased with it. In November 2008 we changed it for an Auto-Sleepers Symbol ES (another van conversion). We wanted something bigger with a built in loo but we like the big open sliding door (great lounging with the sun coming in on those bright days when it is too windy to sit outside) and the narrower body than on even a small coach built. We also use it as a "load lugger" at times - with it in 4 passenger seat mode we were able to carry 2 small upright freezers back home from the store.

 

HOWEVER I think that Auto-Sleepers have priced themselves out of the VW T5 market with the current Trident. (Even an Auto-Sleepers dealer I spoke to thought so and wouldn't be able to keep one as a demo.) Auto-Sleepers have now gone for a more powerful engine, alloy wheels and other (in my opinion) unnecessary features. VW vans are more expensive than other vans and AS have obviously gone for high spec vans to convert. I think it is a pity as for us the reality of a T4 Trident met the dream and concept but now I too cannot conceive someone paying £51000 + for the current Trident. (Perhaps other converters who use less highly spec. VWs and charge less will take over some of AS sales of this type of vehicle which is still popular with many people .)

[Guest JudgeMental]

we have just spent 3 weeks in Slovenia and Croatia and currently at lake Garda in Italy for this week then home...

 

Its our first proper trip in our new adria PVC and the downsize was the best thing we have ever done. the van is a joy to drive, economy a lot better and we have adapted to the smaller living space easily. My one regret is that i did not splash out on the 3 litre auto as the 6 speed box drives me bonkers as you seem to be always shifting.

 

yes they are expensive but that can be helped a bit by getting a LHD model which we always do anyway. Just so glad to get away from the big lumbering coachbuilt that was a pain to park, drive and maintain........

 

I should be in the pool or the lake but nursing the mother of all hangovers,and in the van catching up on news at home...We have only just discovered that our blackberry phones work as really good modems for the laptop with an excellent internet connection...Oh well live and learn!

[euroserv]

Hello,

 

I assure you that it is not because of the price of a panel van compared with a chassis cab.

 

By the time the builder of the vehicle has bought one or the other there is little more that £1000 in it. The price before VAT will be somewhere between £13000 and £16000; the upper price is for a well specified 3.0 comfort matic Ducato XL van.

 

Yes, it's a rip off.

 

I can't see where £35,000 plus gets spent either.

 

Nick

[Camperdude]

Totally agree - no way could, or would I pay 50k for a VW van conversion. There's plenty of smaller converters out there much cheaper.

 

I paid £20k for a brand new, last of the line mk2 Citroen Relay in 2007.

 

Best decision I ever made. B-)

 

John

[bazooka]

And when you see a globecar or is it globescoute at £30,ooo! they are overpriced.A big drawback for me is you d;ont sit oppisite the large sliding door,also there is less width at head hieght than a transit or sevil vehicle. Having said all that they very well built.

Baz

[Cattwg]

To my mind there is no argument, PVCs are very expensive. We have always said £ for £ you get more in a coachbuilt than in a PVC but they suit us. We are on our fourth (not counting the Commer Van I converted 25 years ago).

There is one monetary advantage – it is quite feasible to use a PVC as a second or indeed your only ‘car’.

Cattwg :-D

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Oddly enough, just this weekend I was talking to a guy whose van caught my eye on our local car park. It was a LWB Merc which he had converted himself. The base vehicle was two years old when he bought it.

 

He then went on to explain his fabulous home conversion that looked anything but, and indeed that was my first question " who did the conversion" Amongst other things it had twin solar panels, auto satellite system, under-slung refillable LPG tank, leather upholstery by a company called Regal upholstery., all top quality fittings, including as it did the vans door handles and mirrors he had sent away to be chrome plated. Three Heki roof lights, the list went on and on. His aim was he said to design and build a vehicle that included every conceivable "luxury" appliance and equipment, and I can tell you it was an astonishing bit if work. I enquired at the total cost. He said he and his son had practically worked non stop on it 6 days a week, all of the furniture was made from scratch, not a kit, and he said from base van to finished vehicle took eight months, and at a total cost of £30,000. My parting shot was what a pity he did not think to get MMM to do an article on it, it would have made fascinating reading. But the question would remain that if a commercial company had done the conversion what would be their mark up I wonder, my guess would be 100% considering the overheads all UK companies face. :-|

[mikeyb]

I think the post from " 1footinthegrave" proves my point

6days x 8hrs x 8 months x 2 people = approx 3072 hours.

Let's for easy maths say a worker gets £10 per hour

Unless I'm wrong, this means the labour alone would be over £30,000.

Add that to the cost of the van and components, and there we have it......£50-60,000.

[Guest peter]

ips - 2011-08-08 1:32 PM

 

 

 

I say again £51 THOUSAND QUID for a tiny van with a rear bench seat and very little else and no toilet :-S

Not when I can get a mercedes levoyager a class 3 yr old for £60k. We have looked at pvc's but the cost made us think they were having a laugh.

[euroserv]

mikeyb - 2011-08-08 9:42 PM

 

I think the post from " 1footinthegrave" proves my point

6days x 8hrs x 8 months x 2 people = approx 3072 hours.

Let's for easy maths say a worker gets £10 per hour

Unless I'm wrong, this means the labour alone would be over £30,000.

Add that to the cost of the van and components, and there we have it......£50-60,000.

 

Hang on a moment mikey;

 

The converters that we are talking about produce the furniture, units and everything else in a modular form and it is just slotted in to the same size vehicle that they work on every day. They make some holes, put stuff in, fill holes and fit cabinets, upholstery and it's done. I doubt that it takes a couple of guys more than 18 hours to do your average pvc.

 

The only time consuming part is the design and layout of a new vehicle conversion or something more bespoke but even that will probably be done on a computer using modules that as far as possible will be standardised too.

 

The smaller converter will perhaps have less economy of scale and may have to fabricate new parts from time to time but guess what?... from what I have heard they are usually less expensive! Go figure....

 

Nick

[Basil]

Completely agree with Euroserve. The principle of PVC for us is a yes, the price a definate no. We are currently looking at buying a van and having the conversion done. Using a new Citroen Relay 3.0l at a cost of £17000 with the conversion it still looks like coming out at under £26000, haven't crossed all the T's and dotted the I's as yet but if it comes out at around £30000 I will be happy.

 

Bas

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

You all seem to be overlooking a simple free market premise, most goods are priced according to what the market will stand, some mugs will just pay without question, don't believe me, look here if your in the market for a kitchen bin to put your crap.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wesco-Tower-Kick-Red-Waste/dp/B004SPT22U/ref=sr_1_22?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1312890224&sr=1-22

[mel wood]

1footinthegrave - 2011-08-09 12:44 PM

 

You all seem to be overlooking a simple free market premise, most goods are priced according to what the market will stand, some mugs will just pay without question,

 

In your opinion they are mugs.

Obviously some people want panel van conversions, including small ones for their particular requirements. Why should they be called mugs if that is the choice they make, they can afford the van of their choice and it meets their needs and rquirements?

 

To quote Tracker (without his permission so I hope he doesn't mind):

"There are no right or wrong ways - just different".

 

 

Having said that I repeat my earlier sentiment that £51,000 for an Auto-Sleepers Trident is ridiculous (but it may be that some people will buy them).

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

IMO anyone buying anything goes into it with their eyes wide open. My mug comment really is aimed at anyone that pays £350 for a kitchen bin and IMO must either be a mug, or has more money than sense, BUT as with PVC's it's the free market at work, that really was the point I was trying to make. . :-S

[mel wood]

1footin the grave.

 

Is your Savannah a pvc?

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

mel wood - 2011-08-09 1:23 PM

 

1footin the grave.

 

Is your Savannah a pvc?

 

Yes it is.

[Mike88]

I ask myself who would buy a great big wallowing motorhome that won't even fit on many sites without difficulty or a vehicle so large they can't keep it at home or a conventional motorhome that in all probability will leak at some time in its life. I have had 3 caravans of similar construction to a conventional motorhome and all have leaked like a sieve requiring between them new floors and sides.

 

But the answer is simple! People buy what they like with their own money because they want what they want and the same applies to panel van owners such as myself and even Trident owners.

 

 

[mel wood]

Perhaps this thread has now reached its conclusion as we seem to agree that it is up to folks as to which type of van and model they buy to suit their requirements.

 

It would be a pity if it were to degenerate into something unpleasant.

[euroserv]

Quite right Mel,

 

If you agree that pvc's are far too expensive; don't buy one. Either find an alternative or stump up the cash because while you continue to buy them they will ask as much for them as they can get. Market forces indeed.

 

Nick

[Basil]

Mel with respect the title of the thread is PVC prices!! not whether someone should buy a particular variant or not, it is a shame that the thread appears to have scewed off in that direction.

 

Now I would totally agree that what suits one may not suit another and each to their own, a PVC would certainly suit us, the original question is surely questioning the value for money. Now whilst I respect the fact that anyone can buy whatever they wish, for example I could if I chose afford any of the offerings whatever the cost, the shear poor value for money is what I agree with the origional poster about.

I detest people being ripped off and that is how I see the current offerings and why I am looking down the buy a van and have it converted route, where on the face of it there is a lot to be saved. So my point is if they can do it on basically a one off bespoke top of the range fitted out van, how can the 'big' producers justify their prices with the economies of scale?

Answers on a postage stamp.........

 

 

Bas