cheetahdavie Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Compass Rambler 130 [Eldis?] Peugeot 2.2Hdi [57Reg] Hoping someone out there has much more knowledge/experience of such problems than I..and is willing to offer advice. Problem. Battery again…losing charge from 13.3 [after charge using C-tek XS7000 charger] and falling to 10.69V over 40/48hrs?? Removed battery. bench charged. holds charge. reading 12.78V after 9 days on bench. Put back in vehicle.and low and behold.10.69V after 40+hrs. I checked each of the 14 fuses [under front dinette seats] using ammeter [?] [N48CY Maplins] and the fuses showed nil current[hope I have that right?] being drawn..ecept for Van+ fuse [0.10A..and Alarm [0.07A]..surely not enough to flatten a charged battery in such a short time? I remove the fuses one by one to isolate each area. but still the same problem. In desperation I removed all fuses and switched of the “isolating” switch [just above the step] [parked up without alarms!!!] and left the vehicle on the drive with no power drain whosoever [i believed??] Wrong. battery reading was down to 10.6V some 40ish hours later?? I have asked my next door neighbor if he his nicking my “power” but he denied it!! I have used 3 different multimeter s and checked the ammeter.just in case neighbor must be fed up of me being on the cadge. For those who know this model?? [1]Is there any way that power can be drawn from the battery before the Fuse box?? [2]Have I missed any other fuses/boxes Thanks in Anticipation Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 There must be a power drain on the battery. If you have removed all the fuses, then this suggests a connection before the fuse block, possibly a tracker system? Sadly, I am not familier with your model of 'van, but a loss of power means a power drain somewhere and a permanently connected remote alarm system would fit the bill. Another possibility is that there is a connection between the engine battery and the leisure battery and one is discharging into the other. I would try and trace the wiring from the leisure battery to see where it goes. Good luck ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 This sounds a little like a problem Michelle had with her motorhome's leisure-battery, where the battery would hold charge seemingly indefinitely 'on the bench' and off-load, but lost charge massively as soon as a load was placed on it. Try bench-charging your battery to 13.3V and then put a small load on it (say hooking up a 10W bulb to it) and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 At a very rough guess, assuming a leisure battery somewhere around 80Ah, and assuming it is discharging to about 50%, you have a hidden load of about 1Amp, perhaps a little more. Try removing all the fuses, disconnecting at the positive terminal of the battery, and then putting the multimeter (switched to measure Amps) between the battery terminal and the connector, and see what you actually get. If you see somewhere in the region of a 1Amp current being drawn, something must be connected to the battery between the battery itself, and the fuses, or there is an unfused supply from the fuse "board". Are there any relays between the battery and the fuses? If so, try disconnecting them one by one, to see if it is a faulty relay. Are you quite sure the fridge is switched off: that is to say that the energy selector is in the off position and has not been left in the 12V position, in which position, if the door is closed, the fridge light will stay on. Has the fridge a separate freezer section, with a heated seal around the freezer door? I believe these are switchable and may continue operating if the 12V supply is left on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheetahdavie Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 Thanks for the replies gentlemen. Will check as Derek suggests.as spospe says.. their is a drain.170 milliamps..to big to be "incidental" but surely not enough to drain a near new [elecsol 100] I intend to try the test Derek suggests. The fridge and all other equipment is definitely off Brian. The only change to vehicle has been the change to LED bulbs..shortly after this change the outside [awning] light malfunctioned..came on ..remained on despite all attempts to turn it off..I had to remove the new LED to ensure it turned off I used to be able to keep an aircraft flying..a car running and a woman..? waiting...with little more than a basic tool kit..now i need a degree in origami to ensure a Peugeot with attachments remain "usable." Thanks gents for your swift replies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheetahdavie Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 I have attempted to find out what drain is on the battery prior to the fuse box. Fully charged.it.reading 13.54V [i still cant get Rachel Stotherts 14V?] and put back in to vehicle' Removed all fuses..inserted multimeter between positive terminal and connection lead..meter set up for amps? got a varying reading of between 78.3 and 88.2!! This cant be amps? it must be milliamps??? But all fuses out..isolation switch off!!..it still seems much more than "normal" loss correct me if I am wrong [the wife does?] but more than 3/4 of 1 amp..per hour? with everything DEFINITELY off seems quite a loss and more than the normal gradual loss from a battery [i'm out of my depth now!!] With all switched of,on connecting the multimeter there was a definitive clunk from the "charger".when ever i made the contact with battery/terminal 0.8 A over 1 hour [is that right?] x 40 hours gives me 32A..is that enough to reduce an 85/90 A hr battery[85/90 Am hr Elecsol 100] Heading from York's to Dorset [Whitemead] this weekend.. so glad its hook up and battery not really needed..but Lincoln et al not far away..old Elecsol needed then?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 cheetahdavie - 2011-08-10 12:13 AM I have attempted to find out what drain is on the battery prior to the fuse box. Fully charged.it.reading 13.54V [i still cant get Rachel Stotherts 14V?] and put back in to vehicle' Removed all fuses..inserted multimeter between positive terminal and connection lead..meter set up for amps? got a varying reading of between 78.3 and 88.2!! This cant be amps? it must be milliamps??? But all fuses out..isolation switch off!!..it still seems much more than "normal" loss correct me if I am wrong [the wife does?] but more than 3/4 of 1 amp..per hour? with everything DEFINITELY off seems quite a loss and more than the normal gradual loss from a battery [i'm out of my depth now!!] With all switched of,on connecting the multimeter there was a definitive clunk from the "charger".when ever i made the contact with battery/terminal 0.8 A over 1 hour [is that right?] x 40 hours gives me 32A..is that enough to reduce an 85/90 A hr battery[85/90 Am hr Elecsol 100] Heading from York's to Dorset [Whitemead] this weekend.. so glad its hook up and battery not really needed..but Lincoln et al not far away..old Elecsol needed then?? According to John Wickersham's "The Motorcaravan Manual", approximate charge states for a 12V battery are: 12.7V or over - 100% charge 12.5V - 75% charge 12.4V - 50% charge 12.2V - 25% charge 12V or under - Discharged The voltage needs to be measured at the battery's terminals after the battery has been allowed to stand 'idle' for at least 4 hours and with all appliances disconnected. A modern battery-charger can charge at over 14V (my cbe-branded charger maximises at 14.3V in gel battery mode), but a battery won't 'hold' that voltage once it's taken off charge. If you are obtaining your 13.54V reading immediately after disconnecting your charger, then the reading will be transitory and will rapidly reduce. You said earlier that your battery read 12.78V after 9 days on bench and that reading would be representative of a fully-charged battery. My multimeter allows the readout for Amperage to measured using a choice of scales, which I would have thought is the norm. If your 78.3-88.2 are genuinely milliampere readings, they represent 0.0783-0.0882 amperes, which is a tenth of what you are suggesting. A constant drain of under 0.1A would produce less than 4Ah of charge being lost over 40hours. Conversely, if the drain is actually 0.783A to 0.882A, then this would produce a 32Ah loss over 40 hours. There seem to be two options: 1. Your ("near new") battery has developed a fault and won't hold charge under load. 2. Something is drawing current from your battery. Brian Kirby mentions fridge/freezer 'frame-heaters' that (on Dometic appliances) will continue to use current even if the appliance's energy selector switch is in the Off position. However, as you haven't said that your motorhome has a fridge/freezer, it's a fair guess that it hasn't. I did find this on the MHF forum, but I don't know if it's relevant in your case: http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-347870.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Derek has given you a pointer to some battery problems with similar vehicles from the same converter, and this is worth checking out. If you have a similar issue, however, the drain mentioned should have an effect over a longer period than the 1 to 2 days you are experiencing. The symptoms indicate either a duff battery, or a drain somewhat higher than those being discussed. I can think of one problem that can occur under certain circumstances which, though unlikely, is at least worth checking out. Some converters wire the fridge 12v supply across the leisure battery, with a relay activated by the alternator sensor switching the circuit in. (the alternative is to wire across the vehicle 12v supply, avoiding the leisure battery). If the relay sticks, it is possible to discharge the leisure battery very quickly via the fridge. (I fully discharged one in transit on an Auto-Sleeper where the fuse in the leisure battery charging circuit had blown). In reality, this took only about 4 hours, but that fridge was not thermostatically controlled on 12v, whereas some current models are (and I would expect the drain to be slower). It is unlikely, but as a first step I would check that your fridge is actually turned off, (not left switched to 12v), and if it isn't. switch it off and see if that makes any difference. Edit: typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyg3nwl Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Hi, I am intrigued reading through you initial problem. I dont know your particular van, but it seems that you have tried all the obvious checks, IE disconnect the live terminal from the leisure battery, and use multimeter switched to read Amps flowing from battery into the disconnected cable. Any residual current flow might be from a number of causes. is there some sort of control panel via which the van electrics is controlled, a LED display for example which reads and name or OFF or similarwording. Such a panel in quiescent mode might draw a very few milliamps, whilst waiting for you to press the ON buttom/switch etc. Has the van been fitted with a tracking alarm system at some stage, which might draw power from leisure battery, (and possibly also from engine battery to prevent thieves disabling it by disconnecting just leisure battery).. if so there could be some sneak feed between vehicle and leisure battery. You mentioned parking up without alarms didnt solve the mystery, but what was the difference in current reading with and without alarm apparently connected, ie was the alarm definitely disconnected. There should be a noticeable change in reading when you "disconnect", Somewhere there should be a "sensing" connection to the leisure battery to detect its voltage and enable the control system to Charge the battery when engine is running.. is this causing the leakage somehow. With no engine running, this sensing lead should not be taking any current..is it? Have you got a TV in the van on standby on 12 volts or satellite aerial..? Is on of you taps leaking slightly, turning on your pump intermittently? Try disconnecting battery positive lead totally, then switch testmeter to measure resistance Ohms, and measure between the outgoing live lead from battery to battery negative...you should get a high reading, preferably many hundreds of ohms or even higher....do you? 10 ohms or thereabouts would give you a 1 amp leakage current approx, 100 ohms would result in 0.1 ampere or 100 milliamperes approx One other thought, do you have a solar panel... If so, that could be faulty??? I hope you find the problem eventually. None of these options should drag down a fully charged battery so quickly, however. Another option, has the fridge got an small internal light which is 12 volt driven. Mine has, so I removed the bulb to eliminate it while trying to trace a leakage from my battery. Normally , the light should be off unless the door is open,...but do you open the door during storeage time? tonyg3nwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheetahdavie Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 Many thanks to you all for your advice. I will continue checking all and following up on advice give. Heading to Dorset with Van this coming week end..so better get my skates on... IF I solve the problem I will post the solution..someone else may one day have a similar problem!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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