Are MMM Awards unbiased?

[postnote]

I’m interested like many others to know how MMM determine their award winner? Are these awards based on for example when it comes to motorhomes, a complete review of ALL motorhome models, customer feedback, only to those tested by MMM or manufacturer advertising expenditure(?)

 

What about dealers and dealerships how are these awards determined, again manufacturer advertising expenditure, customer feedback? These forums are full of unhappy customers. Surveys conducted through MMM or dealership self-recommendation(?)

 

Maybe in addition to praise, there should be awards to those manufactories and dealerships that didn’t make the grade.

 

I’m all for giving the good a pat on the back, but the bad need a slap or maybe a shame and name, you owe it to your readers. After all we believe what you write in MMM ;-) ;-)

[Dave225]

I think you have already answered your own question in your Post. MMM is a commercial organisation as are all other magazines and relies on both sales and advertising revenue to survive. While I am sure they try to be as unbiased as they can, they are not likely to want to ‘cut off the hand that feeds them’ and so will probably ‘edit’ tests to try to keep everyone happy. Also they can only test what is presented to them, and I am sure, or would hope, that manufacturers will submit models that have been fully checked out. However, from some reports, that is not always the case. Also if a model has been the ‘rounds’ of Shows and various tests then it may be showing a little wear and tear.

 

They also have to be careful about making to critical remarks about dealerships etc as that could lead them open to legal action, especially if it is based on 3rd party information.

 

I am not trying to defend magazines such as MMM but you have to be realistic. If you really wish to know about a particular model or manufacturer then Forums such as this will give a broader experience level, but again just because someone had a bad experience should not mean the whole manufacturer is not worth interest. People often embellish their ‘bad experience’, and there is nothing like a good 'moan' on a Forum.

 

Usually the best way to know something is to experience it yourself, and sometimes that means taking the plunge and buying a particular outfit. Test it as much as you can beforehand, but there will always be something you feel is not right. Sorry, such is life.

 

[malc d]

The only tests, of anything, that I ever take any notice of are those produced by the Consumers Association in the Which magazine.

 

Any commercial magazine that has to rely on advertising revenue is bound to be cautious.

Just don't take their tests results too seriously.

 

Unfortunately the Consumers Association don't test motorhomes.

 

 

;-)

[postnote]

Thanks for you reply Dave, makes an interesting read.

 

So are we to take it that MMM is unbiased, ummm. Are we not the hands that feeds MMM, without us, the people that purchase MMM, there would be no MMM.

 

Are you also saying Quote “Also they can only test what is presented to them, and I am sure, or would hope, that manufacturers will submit models that have been fully checked out.” that would suggest manufacturers quality control is not that good. And yes we have experienced that, but what the heck, we are only the hands that feeds them the manufacturers!

 

You mention forums, when we do write a negative post; we are advised by the likes of Brian, not to name and shame. It’s almost like, don’t worry if you get stuffed I’m sure the next customer will get stuffed too. Maybe MMM embellish their experiences too.

 

Oh yes I agree take the plunge! Makes great sense when you are spending for example £90,000 on a Burstner Elegance, this is just an example of cost and not product quality to take the plunge. I had thought of buying an Auto Trail Grande Frontier £65,000, no dealer mentioned all its faults and Auto Trail had dropped this model because they could not get it right, they just wanted to get rid of a minger.

No the feedback was from people who had experienced the problems with their Auto Trail Grande Frontiers, who had taken the plunge.

 

And how did I find this out, FORUMS. Glad I didn’t take your advice and take the plunge!!

 

[Colin Leake]

The big problem with all such awards including the caravan clubs is that they can only review the entries they receive. Thus the winner is not necessarily the best available. To be fair reviewing all that is available would be an impossible task.

 

They do help but the best ting is to use these, look at the websites of the manufacturers and then go to one of the big shows to make your mind up. The October one is best if you want to make sure you will get delivery in time for the coming season.

 

We ordered a new one last October and only just got delivery fro this season.

[Brian Kirby]

postnote - 2011-08-14 2:16 PM.........................................You mention forums, when we do write a negative post; we are advised by the likes of Brian, not to name and shame. It’s almost like, don’t worry if you get stuffed I’m sure the next customer will get stuffed too. Maybe MMM embellish their experiences too.

.................

 

As I have tried to explain to you before, my advice (which no-one is obliged to take), was given because you were encouraging someone who appeared to have a case against a dealer, to name and shame that dealer. In my opinion, then and now, by encouraging them to do this, you were being irresponsible. My advice not to do this had nothing to do with protecting the dealer - quite the reverse. My advice had to do with increasing the buyer's chance of success in court, if they decided to take that route. So, perhaps you could now explain how increasing their chances of success, is protecting the dealer?

 

As to bias in making awards, what kind of bias do you detect? If, as seems unlikely, you have read the award reports, you will find a description of how they are arranged, by whom, who participates, and who submits the vehicles to be evaluated. You may also notice that the judging panel comprises a far wider group than just MMM so, in essence, what gets reported, is what the judges decided. The results are frequently a bit difficult to understand, but they are what they are!

 

What you get from forums is mostly gripes from the (generally justifiably) disgruntled. What you seldom get, is the reason they are disgruntled. There is certainly much to be improved in the way such costly items as motorhomes are sold, and many dealers are not adequate to the task. In part, it seems, that is because so few of their sales staff actually use motorhomes in anger, and of those who do, because they are still working, fewer still have the chance to take them on extended trips to see how they really perform. For the novice buyer, therefore, it is the blind (frequently on commission) who lead the blind. Regrettable as that is, I can't quite see how MMM can alter the situation.

 

Its a bit like your advice to name and shame. Were MMM to do as you seem to think they should, I think they would get sued into oblivion. So, your great victory over the motorhoming dealers and manufacturers would possibly last for a few editions, after which the magazine would be probably pulled by its publisher in the face of substantial legal action. Doubtless, this forum would also go. One less magazine, one less forum, and a clear warning to the others to toe the manufacturers' line. Result? Even less knowledge for the hapless buyer. Ever heard of a Pyhrric victory? :-)

 

What you have, broadly, is what is possible. What you seem to want is a blind man's (or woman's) guide to buying a motorhome. Just nip out to the newsagents, buy a mag, learn all there is to know, and buy the perfect van for you. Have you ever bought any other magazines, hoping for knowledge, of maybe computers, etc? Have you never noticed how the latest model from Bloggs is always flavour of the month? So, while I agree that the idea is immensely appealing, I also think that in the real world it is hopelessly idealistic. Still, you could always start you own mag in competition with the present blaggers, just to see if it works. :-D

[Clive]

The answer to the original question is a straiught forward YES.

 

I have heard the testers argue the points for an against and no commercial is applied.

[JamesFrance]

It could be easy to weed out a lot of the offerings just by looking through their specifications.

 

There are still models which can only accommodate a single camping gas cylinder rather than 2 x 11 kilos, have beds of inadequate dimensions, small fridges, small water tanks, no leisure battery etc. etc.

 

The few that are left on the short list may well need extensive testing, but no magazine can do all that as it would take a few years.

 

The rest is down to personal opinions which may not agree with your own.

[postnote]

Clive - 2011-08-14 6:07 PM

 

The answer to the original question is a straiught forward YES.

 

I have heard the testers argue the points for an against and no commercial is applied.

 

Thanks Clive, to the point which is good. But oh my, Brian is rambling again. I think MMM should be proud to have him in their corner..

:D

[Guest peter]

I only got halfway through Brians post and fell asleep. :D

[Keith T]

JamesFrance - 2011-08-14 6:56 PM

 

It could be easy to weed out a lot of the offerings just by looking through their specifications.

 

There are still models which can only accommodate a single camping gas cylinder rather than 2 x 11 kilos, have beds of inadequate dimensions, small fridges, small water tanks, no leisure battery etc. etc.

 

The few that are left on the short list may well need extensive testing, but no magazine can do all that as it would take a few years.

 

The rest is down to personal opinions which may not agree with your own.

 

 

 

Biased...yes possibly so, but then all our views are biased, are they not, in one way or another.

 

My personal views are biased in many respects, but I hope I have the ability and grace to see that other peoples views are just as valid, even if I do not agree with them.

 

Personally, I can see nothing wrong in a motorhome which only has space for small Gas Cylinders - after all, we may not all need the large ones, or may not have the carrying capacity or space depending on the size of the van. It cannot be reasonable to compare say a VW van conversion with a large A-class in terms of what's in it...more to the point, surely, is to see what each of us needs comes in whatever we are loooking at. Personally - and the same applies to the caravan Club awards - I do not agree with a lot of what seem to get the top awards, but I do think a lot must depend on what models manufacturers enter in the first place.

 

With regards to Brian's' comments, yes, they may be somewhat lengthy, but the points he makes are, I think, very valid, clearly thought through, and whilst - in anger, maybe- one often feels like taking the strongest line at the outset, , one has to consider if this will reduce your ultimate likehood of a satisfactoy outcome. I have on several occasions (not just in motorhoming) had cause to complain, and usually my complaint is addressed in the first place to the CEO, whose name and direct contact details I will endeavour to find out, and whilst the reply may come from one of his/her 'minions', it generally produces satisfactory results.......restraint and politeness goes a long way I find.