Germany ... here we come!!!!

[bolero boy]

Did six weeks in northern France, Belgium, northern Germany, Holland and Denmark last summer. Generally fine but I seem to remember just one petrolstation in Germany wouldn't accept my Credit Card (my preferred payment method) although it was OK with my Debit Card.

I have a Sainsbury's Mastercard credit card and a LloydsTSB debit card. Mel, which particular cards do you carry?   

[Way2Go]

Can we have some clarification between using Credit Cards (where the outstanding balance is paid off each month) and Debit Cards which are also supported by Visa but links directly to your current bank account.

 

Which type of cards are you having problems with? We've used both in the past (on and off the motorways) without problem.

[Mel B]

Right, here's the info we were told:

 

Credit card - many places in Germany would be very unlikely to accept our, or any, UK credit cards (we have Nationwide, Capital One and our Lloyds TSB bank credit cards too) - these are all VISA cards.

 

Debit card - our standard UK Switch type cards would be extremely unlikely to be accepted anywhere - and would only be if they had the 'EC' or possibly 'Maestro' symbol/logo on.

 

None of our cards have the EC or Maestro symbols on, so no use in a lot of Germany.

 

Apparently Germans uses debit cards or cash much more than any credit cards - nearly everyone that went into the petrol station were using was paying with cash, rather than cards.

 

It is probable that the refusal to accept the credit cards generally is also due to the cost of the transation to the retailer, up to 5% in some cases.

 

The fuel stations on the motorways and run by major chains would be likely to accept our credit cards, but at the cost of more expensive fuel. Purchasing food could have been a problem as even some of the major supermarkets may decline credit cards.

 

We changed our plans basically because we didn't want to end up spoiling our holiday by worring if we were going to be able to get fuel and eat!!!! 8-)

[Mel B]

laimeduck - 2011-09-06 11:36 PM

 

Mel hi

Sorry you had a few problems - hope the holiday was worth it overall though? :-D

 

I am interested in your fuel problems as I am off to Germany in a week.

Does all this apply to fuel stations on the Autobahns as well or was it just on normal roads?

I am trying to work out how much cash I need to take with me.

 

Regards

 

Yes, despite the fun and games, we had a really nice time thanks! :-D

 

We didn't use the Autobahns for fuel (not that rich!!! :D ). I'd suggest working out how much you're likely to need for fuel and food and take enough, or ensure you can get enough cash from an ATM using your bank card, to cover your trip.

 

Had we known about the possible problems we'd encounter before we went, we'd have taken enough with us, or ensured we would be able to access it, so as not to cause issues, but we didn't ... so we didn't! *-)

[Mel B]

Caroline - 2011-09-07 8:55 AM

 

Mel

 

Sorry you had such a time of it, I was interested in your comment on canoes and wondered what type you had, and how often you used them, are you keen canoeists :-S or is it just fun to have them with you (?)

 

8-)

 

Hi Caroline, I'll drop you a PM so as not to 'bore' this lot silly!!! (lol)

[Mel B]

For anyone who's interested, the vet in France recommended the Promeris products as being the best preventative treatment for ticks carrying the piroplasmosis infection, Frontline isn't as good, so we'll be changing over to this next time we're planning on going abroad:

 

http://www.vetscriptions.co.uk/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=1&Screen=SRCH&Search=promeris

[Robinhood]

Mel B - 2011-09-07 7:42 PM

 

Right, here's the info we were told:

 

Credit card - many places in Germany would be very unlikely to accept our, or any, UK credit cards (we have Nationwide, Capital One and our Lloyds TSB bank credit cards too) - these are all VISA cards.

 

Debit card - our standard UK Switch type cards would be extremely unlikely to be accepted anywhere - and would only be if they had the 'EC' or possibly 'Maestro' symbol/logo on.

 

None of our cards have the EC or Maestro symbols on, so no use in a lot of Germany.

 

Apparently Germans uses debit cards or cash much more than any credit cards - nearly everyone that went into the petrol station were using was paying with cash, rather than cards.

 

It is probable that the refusal to accept the credit cards generally is also due to the cost of the transation to the retailer, up to 5% in some cases.

 

The fuel stations on the motorways and run by major chains would be likely to accept our credit cards, but at the cost of more expensive fuel. Purchasing food could have been a problem as even some of the major supermarkets may decline credit cards.

 

We changed our plans basically because we didn't want to end up spoiling our holiday by worring if we were going to be able to get fuel and eat!!!! 8-)

 

To balance your post in the hopes that it won't put people off Germany, this appears (from experience) to be a somewhat out of date view (by some years).

 

Germany is still more of a cash rather than credit society, and it is certainly true that the smaller shops and businesses are still less likely to accept any credit cards than the UK, (buying stuff from Germany over the internet can demonstrate similar behaviour) so it will be possible to encounter "issues", but it really doesn't present much of a practical problem.

 

As already posted, for some years I haven't hit ANY petrol station in Germany that does not accept UK credit cards (though 10 years ago ALL credit cards would have been refused in most). Even buying in the major's stations at a slight premium is likely still to cost less than UK fuel anyway.

 

Some supermarkets don't take Credit Cards at all, but many do, and you soon learn which ones consistently do (In my experience, for example, REWE and Edeka, which are good examples of common, national chains, and also have good product ranges unlike some of the others).

 

All the campsites we've used in Germany for the last 4 years have taken Credit Cards, as has every restaurant we've used for main meals.

 

I have little doubt that there will be some circumstances that don't fit the above, but it really does not require much effort to avoid problems. Given that our experience throughout Europe indicates that we will at some point require cash, we always carry enough to get by, but usually end up expending most of it on the final fuel and meals before returning. (Though at least with Euros, we can decide whether we just want to keep them for next time, since they are sure to be useable somewhere on a future trip).

 

Frankly, I think you've "chickened out" ;-) on a false premise, and by doing so have missed out on a potentially excellent holiday in one of Europe's most motorhome-friendly countries, where the costs of eating and drinking out are generally more attractive than it's near neighbours, and the other costs (public transport, food shopping etc.) also (IMO) seem to be better.

 

It's your loss, Mel, but I think you ought to summon up a bit more courage and try again next year. :-)

[ollybear]

Robinhood, in my opinion you give a very good description of the situation over here.

 

MelB, the problems that you seemed to have with the debit card has nothing to do with germany. If the debit card does not belong to one of the internationally accepted systems (maestro from mastercard or v-pay from visa) then it is not meant to be used abroad. In that case it is not the machine in germany that refuses the card, but the british bank that does not permit the use abroad.

 

[Robinhood]

Mel B - 2011-09-07 7:42 PM

 

Right, here's the info we were told:

 

Credit card - many places in Germany would be very unlikely to accept our, or any, UK credit cards (we have Nationwide, Capital One and our Lloyds TSB bank credit cards too) - these are all VISA cards.

 

Debit card - our standard UK Switch type cards would be extremely unlikely to be accepted anywhere - and would only be if they had the 'EC' or possibly 'Maestro' symbol/logo on.

 

 

 

 

ollybear - 2011-09-08 8:05 AM

 

MelB, the problems that you seemed to have with the debit card has nothing to do with germany. If the debit card does not belong to one of the internationally accepted systems (maestro from mastercard or v-pay from visa) then it is not meant to be used abroad. In that case it is not the machine in germany that refuses the card, but the british bank that does not permit the use abroad.

 

....and to expand on the above two paragraphs - my credit and debit cards are Visa.

 

I haven't had any problems with the credit card, and I wouldn't expect any problems with the debit card (provided the particular establishment displayed that it accepted Visa).

 

Visa have played around with their systems and logos over the last few years, (Delta, Electron, etc) but AFAIK all cards that display the recent VISA logo with the start of the "V" looking rather like an inverted tick in yellow, followed by the word "Debit" should be processed through the same route as the Visa credit card (though as a debit card), and be valid abroad anywhere where the VISA sign is displayed. (whilst not technically part of the V-pay system mentioned, they should work in an equivalent manner).

 

Certain VISA cards, such as the VISA Electron cards issued in the past, have (AIUI) not been universally acceptable abroad in the same way for technical reasons (funds checking being carried out differently).

 

[bolero boy]

Mel B - 2011-09-07 7:50 PM ........or ensure you can get enough cash from an ATM using your bank card, to cover your trip. *-)

Mel, does this mean getting cash with your 'non-EU' debit card was OK?

Sainsbury's credit cards changed from VISA to Mastercard a year or two ago. I thought this might present a problem but none so far - seems like it might have been a slight improvement if Mastercard are taken at more places......?

Our LloydsTSB debit card continues on VISA. Just to confirm a point above, this is a fairly new card and has the 'yellow inverted tick' on the top left corner of the 'V' in Visa. The Mastercard is also new but doesn't seem to have the Maestro symbol unless it is the red/yellow logo of Mastercard.

[Mel B]

To try to reply to the various comments:

 

Robinhood:

 

I never said we would be/were charged a ‘premium’ for USING the credit card, I said that the fuel cost was at a premium where it may have been accepted, which is quite a different thing.

 

We did not chicken out, we just did not want to have the hassle just for the sake of it, we weren’t heading for anywhere in particular so why continue on if it was likely that we would have fun and games? I only had just over 2 weeks of holiday and certainly wasn’t going to spend it wondering if we were gonna have problems.

 

It’s not actually our loss, it’s Germany’s as they didn’t get our custom. We actually had a very good holiday in Belgium, Luxembourg and France and it was very relaxing. Our credit card has always been accepted in these, and other, countries we’ve visited in the past without a problem.

 

We have actually been to Germany on 2 previous occasions and thoroughly enjoyed ourselves so we have nothing against going there, and have only ever had a problem once or twice in that time. What amuses me is that you say you haven’t had a problem so why do you feel the need to check that the Visa/Mastercard is accepted before filling up, surely if you are confident there isn’t a problem then why check at all?

 

Maybe because of the current financial situation in Germany, the retailers are getting more selective on who they will accept credit cards from especially since they don’t get payment from the credit card companies until the end of the month so in effect THE RETAILERS are giving the customers free credit, NOT the credit card companies, so this may lie in why they are more reticent to accept non-EC/Maestro cards, or possibly any credit cards at all. It may also be that the card suppliers outside of mainland Europe are slower payers? I don’t know, but if I was a retailer I would want the cash there and then, not wait a month for it.

 

The first fuel station we hit did NOT take British credit cards, no ifs, no buts, it simply did not. It was nothing at all to do with the machinery, they just would NOT accept them at all. The person who served us actually LIVES there, and obviously gave us advice about the state of affairs as she had become aware of it from her experience of actually LIVING in the country, it was not a false premise - if we can’t believe that someone who lives and works actually in a fuel station knows the situation in that country then who can we believe? Just because you haven’t had a problem, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, or isn’t more widespread than you have experienced. As we did have enough money to cover the food and other expenses, but not anywhere like enough to cover fuel as well, which was going to be our major expense, what would YOU suggest we should have done? The only safe way to ensure that the credit cards were accepted at fuel stations was to go in and ask BEFORE filling up, and then get the fuel - this is something I did do on a subsequent occasion in Luxembourg to make sure and they did accept it there, which they did. Even Lidl and Aldi in France now accept British credit cards, which is more than their British stores will as they’ll only take debit cards. I certainly didn’t want to plan my holiday trying to find and use only those supermarkets and fuel stations that would accept my credit card, that is not my idea of a relaxing fun break.

 

You may not have experienced problems but that doesn’t mean they do not exist - it may be more down to where you go in Germany and how you ‘holiday’ - we are often off the beaten track and/or not on the normal tourist routes, don’t use campsites, and don’t eat/drink out - if you did as we did you may find it is a different situation altogether.

 

As I explained previously, as we weren’t anticipating a problem with our credit card we hadn’t taken enough money to cover paying for fuel for the whole holiday, which is not a good idea anyway as who wants to be carrying around €600 just for that alone! We already had €400 for shopping and treats etc, I certainly wouldn’t want to carry around €1000!!! It is one thing to take enough cash to ‘get by’, but for the whole holiday???? I think not! Hindsight is a wonderful thing, if I had been away of the problems we may encounter I could have prepared for them, however we were not and therefore could not. My posting on here was simply to advise others who are planning on going to Germany of the problem they may encounter so that they can put things in place to cope with them, no more, no less - I did not wish to discourage anyone from going there and I don’t believe I ever mentioned anything of the like so I’m not sure why you have taken it that way.

 

 

Ollybear:

 

As I mentioned before I was talking about our use of the British credit card, we only asked if we could use the debit card as a fall-back when the credit card wasn’t accepted as obviously we prefer to use the credit card as it has safety and security back-up which doesn’t exist on a debit card. Our credit card was accepted in France, Luxembourg and Belgium on all occasions in both large and small outlets - if we asked if it was accepted (which it always was) we were given funny looks as it seemed to them to be a very strange question indeed!!!

 

I appreciate that you live in Germany but I imagine you have a EU/Maestro or such like credit card that IS accepted there without a problem so may not face the issues us non-German residents do?

 

 

Overall:

 

From comments on some of the postings above, some of you seem ‘at odds’ with what the others are saying anyway, so taking that into consideration, I’d rather believe what I was told by the fuel station attendant as to the situation along with our own experience.

 

[Randonneur]

Mel, its not only Germany that there is a problem with British caard, when we were in Portugal last year they would only take Portugese cards at Service Stations, Lidl and Aldi or cash, at one Service Station you had to pay cash up front before they would allow you to take the fuel. We had no problem with British cards in Continente, Decathlon and Mini Preco.

[Robinhood]

Mel,

 

I most certainly didn't imply that Credit Card use in Germany was always as simple as in the UK, but I did think it was worth setting out a balance, since the replies to your post make it apparent that you may have worried some people prior to their visiting Germany, in MY experience unnecessarily.

 

Mel B - 2011-09-08 10:55 PM

 

To try to reply to the various comments:

 

Robinhood:

 

I never said we would be/were charged a ‘premium’ for USING the credit card, I said that the fuel cost was at a premium where it may have been accepted, which is quite a different thing.

 

 

...neither did I assume that you had. The reference I made to it was in introduction to the fact that I HAD been charged such a premium on this holiday, in Denmark. Since you were complaining about paying an indirect premium by your assumption of only being able to use major petrol suppliers, I thought you (and others) might be interested in the application of an absolute premium for foreign cards (should they wish to visit Denmark in the future).

 

BTW, having just done over 2000 miles touring Germany and Denmark, buying all my diesel at a 10c premium (as you estimate for major petrol stations) would have added less than £30 to the cost of a 3 week holiday - not really enough to make me change my plans.

 

We have actually been to Germany on 2 previous occasions and thoroughly enjoyed ourselves so we have nothing against going there, and have only ever had a problem once or twice in that time. What amuses me is that you say you haven’t had a problem so why do you feel the need to check that the Visa/Mastercard is accepted before filling up, surely if you are confident there isn’t a problem then why check at all?

 

What amuses ME is that given 2 previous relatively problem-free visits, you decided to ignore your own experience and bail-out after one problem this time. ;-)

 

I've already explained the history of why I check - 20 years ago my best friend moved to near Frankfurt - we visited regularly and he warned me then not to expect to use my Credit Card for petrol, except on Autobahns. At that time, very few stations took them (the one in his village, a Shell station, didn't, but on later visits things changed).

 

Over the years, with further visits and numerous holidays, the number that do has increased to the point where I haven't hit one anywhere in Germany that didn't for some time - but I don't claim that ALL will, just that the many that I have used all did.

 

I usually check in advance (especially when abroad) if I'm relying on my credit card for any purchase. BTW, by check, I simply mean looking for the VISA symbol; I've never bothered asking, and never been subsequently refused.

 

You may not have experienced problems but that doesn’t mean they do not exist - it may be more down to where you go in Germany and how you ‘holiday’ - we are often off the beaten track and/or not on the normal tourist routes, don’t use campsites, and don’t eat/drink out - if you did as we did you may find it is a different situation altogether.

 

....but Mel, all I was posting WAS my own experience. I've travelled very widely in Germany over the last few years, both on and off the beaten track; literally North, South, East, and West. (In fact, other than some major tourist areas, we prefer being off the tourist routes, exploring). We have had no practical problems in obtaining either food or fuel using credit card.

 

As I explained previously, as we weren’t anticipating a problem with our credit card we hadn’t taken enough money to cover paying for fuel for the whole holiday, which is not a good idea anyway as who wants to be carrying around €600 just for that alone!

 

Our usual "float" is £400 (in Euros this time of course), with use of the Credit Card maximised, and ATM withdrawals as a fall-back. We used up a significant part of tha initial "float" on our return on campsite fees and fuel where we could easily have used Credit Card, but wished to run-down the cash.

 

My posting on here was simply to advise others who are planning on going to Germany of the problem they may encounter so that they can put things in place to cope with them, no more, no less - I did not wish to discourage anyone from going there and I don’t believe I ever mentioned anything of the like so I’m not sure why you have taken it that way.

 

Well, I didn't wish to start a war; (don't mention the war!); nor did I accuse you of wishing to discourage people from visiting Germany; your post, however, appears to have set some hares running and I simpy wished to counter that.

 

From comments on some of the postings above, some of you seem ‘at odds’ with what the others are saying anyway, so taking that into consideration, I’d rather believe what I was told by the fuel station attendant as to the situation along with our own experience.

 

....well, it appears to me that most people who have replied have encountered very few problems, and your own experience of two largely problem-free sojourns, followed by your recent single experience hardly appears to be evidence to the contrary, but you are of course welcome to your own opinion (my wife doesn't afford me that luxury :-) )

[Guest JudgeMental]

I really dont know what is going on here, and why Mel aborted her plans.... We used visa credit for fuel on 4 occasions this summer in Germany and not on motorways either. Supermarkets wanted cash or debit cards (some here also including Lidl) supermarket produce including wine seemed to us to be about the cheapest in Europe?

 

you have to remember that in France and Germany in particular, a credit card economy and all the debt that comes with it! Is not part of their financial culture (lucky them!)

[Mel B]

I really don't know why I bother mentioning anything on here, why not just let people find out about things themselves and not try to help alleviate them at all ... surely advising of possible difficulties, so people can be prepared, is a wise thing to do? *-)

 

I thought I had clearly mentioned why we chose not to continue with going into Germany especially since there was no specific place we were heading for, so why go looking for problems when we could have a perfectly enjoyable holiday elsewhere without the hassle? :-S

 

We haven't written Germany off and will probably go next year instead but at least we'll be more prepared and can plan to take more cash, arranged to have more available money in our current account in case we need to draw it out, or get a card which won't cause us problems.

 

Sorry tea's ready ... back later.

[Guest JudgeMental]

"Sorry tea's ready ... back later."

 

Madam you are a harsh mistress....... (I like that!) You have the old fella well under control!:D

[Mel B]

JudgeMental - 2011-09-09 7:17 PM

 

"Sorry tea's ready ... back later."

 

Madam you are a harsh mistress....... (I like that!) You have the old fella well under control!:D

 

And very nice it was too Judgy ... bangers and mash with cabbage and carrots, last night it was pizza, jacket potato and salad, the night before belly pork and apple sauce (made by me on holiday from the lovely 'free' apples everywhere!) ... all very tasty! He does a lovely roast dinner too and has fallen 'in love' with a halogen oven ....!!! :-D

[art338]

Never mind the fuel and supermarkets Mel, tell us where you went and what interesting scenes you discovered, is it a dog friendly country, ref eating out or in shops, any pictures?

 

So far you've had well over 900 'lookers' to hear what you have to say ... so ...

 

art

 

[Vic]

Last year we travelled round France for 4 months, this year we did France, Germany and Austria. On both occasions we used a Cash Passport card (available free at Tesco). The card is pre-loaded with however much you want in euros. You can also top it up via their website while you are away. We had very little trouble with this card, most shops filling stations etc accepted it. Also, all the ATMs I used in all three countries accepted it and I do not recall paying any fees for withdrawals.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Vic - 2011-09-27 12:02 PM

 

Last year we travelled round France for 4 months, this year we did France, Germany and Austria. On both occasions we used a Cash Passport card (available free at Tesco). The card is pre-loaded with however much you want in euros. You can also top it up via their website while you are away. We had very little trouble with this card, most shops filling stations etc accepted it. Also, all the ATMs I used in all three countries accepted it and I do not recall paying any fees for withdrawals.

 

yes but at what exchange rate...nationwide still pays a commercial rate of exchange

[Vic]

At Tesco rate. They're usually pretty competative. OK, if you top up on line you pay a fee. Just try to make sure you load up with enough euros for your hols. I saves carrying lots of cash too.

[derek pringle]

Hi Vic,

Just looked on Tesco website as the card sounds good, unfortunately they have just stopped doing it.

Unless yours is a different thing they are asking people with money in their account to contact them,worth you taking a look.

Mel, whilst we have never had a problem in Germany or anywhere for that matter, I fully agree with you that if you are not comfortable with a situation you alter your plans or change your mind, after all its your holiday not an obstacle course.

We found in Holland a bizzare system whereby you had to pay for fuel before you filled the tank,hard when you dont know how much you are going to need. This was for all customers not just visitors.

 

cheers

derek

[Klyne]

Its interesting the different experiences people have with using cards in Germany. We spent about 6 weeks in Germany earlier in the year and went along the Baltic Coast to Rugen Island, so about as far east as you can get before hitting Poland! Without doubt using any form of card payment in Germany can be problematic. However in the main we managed very well using credit cards for fuel and shopping. Never found UK bank cards easy to use except in ATM's. We prefer not to use them for general purchases anyway. I filled up fairly regularly and found I was able to use by Mastercard CC in all but a few fuel stations. Has anyone noticed that fuel in Germany is always cheaper on a Monday and then gets progressively more expensive as the week goes on! The REWE group caused quite a stir in Germany when they announced they were going to accept credit cards. We also found a couple of other local groups that operate in the Baltic area that also accept CC's. Never found an Edeka that accepted cc's though. Did once find an apology (in English) at the entrance of one saying they don't accept them! Holland can be as difficult, if not more so in accepting CC's particularly for food shopping. For example Albert Heijn one of the largest, and best, supermarket groups in Holland do not accept them or a UK bank card. We also find we have to have much more cash in Germany than say France.

 

 

David

[Robinhood]

Klyne - 2011-10-01 10:55 PM

 

Its interesting the different experiences people have with using cards in Germany.

.....

Never found an Edeka that accepted cc's though. Did once find an apology (in English) at the entrance of one saying they don't accept them!

 

David

 

Indeed, since we haven't (at least from memory) hit one that didn't! (we tend to look for Edeka and Rewe stores).

 

Only yesterday, I was checking the CC bill from our recent visit, before paying it off, and reconciled a Eu50 bill from the Edeka store south of Schleswig!

 

Having said that, I've always been under the impression that Edeka was an "umbrella" brand for independent traders, and a quick search of their site indicates that it is true, the stores belonging to independent sole traders or groups. So - possibly the policy on CC use is set at the independent level, and depends to some extent on location.

[Mel B]

Update .... we have a Maestro card at last!!!!! :->

 

We have a savings account with Yorkshire Bank and as it had a better interest rate for a year which is coming to an end hubby rang to see what we need to do about it and he was told that he should have been issued with a Maestro card when we took the account out as that is the way that we would be able to draw money out ... so they've sent us one! So for us ... problem solved so long as we put enough money in the account before we go away.

 

Sooooooo, if anyone has a Yorkshire Bank account, savings or otherwise, they SHOULD be able to get a Maestro card from them without difficulty.

 

I'll put this as a separate posting too.