Vixter Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 I'm sure there are many of you out there who have done so, do you have any advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Hi, I see you have identified the vehicle from your other post, if you hadn't i was going to suggest that you look at www.mobile.de As for buying in Germany and registering hear all seems very straight forward so you shouldn't have any problems. You may want to look at the insurance for your return to the UK as there seems to be a problem if you want Fully Comp, it also appears there is a similar problem with obtaining breakdown cover for the same part of the journey. It appears you can obtain cover on the VIN/Chassis number as soon as you get to the UK but no one seems to want to cover you until you get hear, Albeit you can get third party insurance with your transit plates from the local licencing office in Germany ? Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 If you search the forum using "Germany" as a keyword, you'll find some relevant threads in Dec 2005 and Jan 2006. When I imported a new motorhome from Germany in July 2005, the Caravan Club was prepared to offer me comprehensive insurance on the vehicle that included the portion of the return-home trip that was outside this country. However, as enodreven says, it proved impossible to obtain breakdown/recovery insurance until the vehicle had been registered in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Hi, Derek Do you remember who you spoke to at the CC as i tried them and they said they would only insure me when i arrived back in the UK, the reason i ask is that i am interested in buying a Hymer from Germany and the insurance is the only thing that is worring as to drive 50k+ back to the UK with only third party insurance makes me worry ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 enodreven: I've sent you a Private Message about this that should, hopefully, arrive in your In-Box. PM me back if you need more info. (I've assumed you are also planning to buy 2nd-hand, but I'm not so sure now that this assumption was correct. Anyway, it probably doesn't matter much.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 I would suggest that my 10-page MMM Fact Sheet will prove of some help. Since I first wrote it, over 600 people have used this step-by-step guide and it covers specifically buying in Germany as well as all aspects of VAT, Registration, Insurance, Modification, Warranty preservation, etc. To get a copy, send an SAE (at least C5 size) together with a cheque made payable to my favourite charity, MacIntyre Care (£7 or more please - you'll save several £Thousands) to: M Eastburn Fact Sheet MMM PO Box 88 Tiverton EX16 7ZN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 To cover the specific question about insurance, the position is as follows (I checked this with the UK Motor Insurers Bureau (MIB)): Some 4 years' ago the EU mandarins introduced new rules allowing any insurance company to offer insurance in any EU member country. However, the effect was the exeact opposite of what was intended. To offer motor insurance in the UK, a company has to be bonded with the MIB. This bonding is where about 10% of your premium now goes and is used to pay out to innocent third parties of accidents involving uninsured drivers. The same bonding arrangements apply in other EU countries. UK insurers rapidly realised that they were not so bonded and it was not worth their while doing so for a few personal imports. So they stopped offering comprehensive cover outside the UK. Furthermore, they cannot, for the same reasons, offer even just Third Party cover. So you must buy your insurance abroad. Third Party is easy to arrange (normally through the dealer). But no insurance company will sell you Fully Comp cover for less than a year (even in the UK you will find that no refund for part-used policies is normally given in the first year of a policy). So, if you want Fully Comp, you must buy a full year's cover, which will cost a great deal (remember, you have no entitlement to No Claims Discount). I hope that explains the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Mel: I cannot argue with your findings. Nevertheless, the Caravan Club's brokers provided 'comprehensive' insurance cover to me from the date of collection of my motorhome in Germany and in the full knowledge that I would be driving a non-UK-registered vehicle abroad. I raised the MIB/bonding/legality issue with the brokers, who in turn checked with the underwriters, and was assured that there was no difficulty. In my case the insurance company involved was NIG, though I know AXA has been used in the past. Several buyers of motorhomes from the Continent have obtained comprehensive insurance from the CC but, as far as I'm aware, none has been unlucky enough to need to test whether the policy is worth the paper it's written on. As you've done the research and will have the necessary facts ar your fingertips, would you be prepared to progress this with the CC, please? If the CC's brokers are arranging insurance policies that have no validity then the Club needs to be made aware of it ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Hi, Vixter I think all of the suggestions above are worthy of taking into account and you can find a lot more together with some real life experiance on this link http://www.motorcaravanning.co.uk/vehicles/importing_facts.htm hope it works, you may need to register but it is free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Hi, again You may also want to check the DVLA web site as it gives a lot of free advice on importing www.dvla.gov.uk/vehicles/exptimpt.htm and i am sure you are aware that you can import a MH from Germany which is over 6 months old and with more than 6000 kms without having to pay VAT ?? See page 4 of the above link, it suggests either/or about the 6mth/6000kms but when i spoke directly with the Customs & Excise they said it had to be both ? if you are thinking along these lines its worth contact your local C&E to find out exactly what they will accept ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Anyone importing a motorhome to the UK will need the DVLA's Information Pack that contains the various forms and booklets necessary. Booklet P15 makes it perfectly plain that, for Customs & Excise purposes, a vehicle imported from within the EU will be classed as a New Means of Transport (NMT) if it is EITHER less than 6 months old OR has travelled less than 6000km. UK VAT will normally be payable on NMTs. For an imported motorhome not to be classed as NMT it needs to be more than 6 months old AND have travelled more than 6000km. (This is also explicitly stated in booklet P15) It's all in Mel Eastburn's invaluable MMM Fact Sheet as mentioned earlier in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Let me try and respond to the various points: Derek, yes, I am aware that CC's underwriters have been issuing temporary cover notes for fully comp insurance from the place of purchase, even though the vehicle is on foreign plates. The last time this was raised, I checked with both the MIB and CC's insurers and reported the findings in MMM. The CC's brokerss (Devlins I think) said it was a genuine error, as did the CC and should not have happened. The MIB simply said the insurance would not be valid. I checked with another large motorhome specialist broker who said that, had an accident occurred on the Continent(fortunately none did), then the underwriters (AXA, from memory, but I may recall wrongly) would almost certainly have refused to pay out and the insured would have been left to make a claim on the broker's professional indemnity insurance - neither easy nor quick. Turning to used motorhomes, yes you do not pay VAT abroad when you buy, but remember it has already been paid and the used price reflects this inclusion. Having said that, used motorhomes are good buys in Germany and France, especially at the end of the season when dealers clear out their rental fleets (almost all dealers of any size in Europe have a rental fleet). Finally, the 6 months/6,000 miles issue. As Derek says, it must pass BOTH and not just one of the threshholds. The VAT Booklet makes this clear, but the DVLA has had this, incorrectly as an either/or for some years. And imported new motorhomes are now being subjected to checks, which is a recent development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Mel: Thanks for that information. The CC's brokers are Devitt Insurance Services and, as I said earlier, in my case the underwriters were (said to be) in the loop from the start. I suspect from your reference to AXA that your enquiry may have been a follow-up to a letter in MMM (from David Ross) that said the CC could provide comprehensive 'abroad' insurance for imports. In fact Devitts told me they'd referred to Mr Ross's file (and others) before agreeing to offer insurance to me. I don't doubt for a moment what you say but, if Devitts have admitted an error in the past, they should make damn sure they don't compound the felony. I shall write to the CC and Devitts about this as it's obviously important that it be straightened out. Would you be happy for me to quote you in my communication, please? Regards, Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Derek, Email me privately - let's take this one offline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 OK Mel - done that. (Hopefully your old e-mail address is still alive and kicking!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 No, it isn't, but my new one is and you have that Derek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 A FURTHER POINT: In this complex world of insurance, I notice that I failed to make clear that it is ONLY the Third Party bit of the cover that UK insurers cannot provide unless they are not bonded in the country of the vehicle's registration (germany in this case). However, you CAN get German Third Party cover and then ask your UK insurer for cover for damage to the vehicle itself (the extra provided by comprehensive cover). You will also get UK Third Party cover with this, but that is not usable abroad. So if you run into someone's van, you will claim on the German Third Party cover for damage to the other party (and for any damage to passengers in your own vehicle) and on the UK insurance for damage to your own van. If someone runs into you, the whole claim, including for damage to your own van will be against the other party on their insurance. Hope that's now completely clear. HOWEVER, I have not yet found a UK insurer who will give the cover described above. It may be that Devitts will do so, but, if so, they should be making it very clear that it is conditional upon you having Third Party cover from the country of purchase (and initial registration). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Mel: Not sure you mean what your para 2, sentence 1 says. Should Line 3 read "unless they are bonded...", or perhaps "as they are not bonded..."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Derek, typo, delete 'not'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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