High St v Web = no contest

[LordThornber]

Yesterday we went to purchase a new coffee maker. We'd done our research via the shops and the web and made our choice.

 

Anyway off we went and did our best (much trekking), to purchase locally and from an independent store. Not a chance.

 

The worst price locally was £179, the best £159, and that was from Comet.

 

Onto the Web and Amazon comes in at £89, yes 50% cheaper. Same model, guarantee, the lot. No wonder the High St is dying on its feet.

 

Oh and of course the price includes delivery, so no parking hassles either.

 

A nice saving but another nail in traditional shoppings coffin.

 

Martyn

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

I fear your right Martyn, the traditional high street will soon become reduced to a few towns, where they will become a tourist attraction. 

Shopping will move out of town to places like "Blue Water" etc and online...............Progress eh*-)

I would never take on a shop, my footstool business is all online its the only way to operate now days, even with the pelmets, half of the interior designers I work for work from home or out of town.........The unified business rates have helped kill of the high street.  

[Lord Braykewynde]

I do most of our shopping for expensive items on the web.

Just last week we had a quote for bathroom fittings from a local supplier.

By buying the same products off web suppliers I saved £116 on the bath/basin taps and £113 on the towel radiator. In my mind we are being ripped off if these online sites can sell the same product and still make a profit.

Two weeks ago we bought a shower from Amazon because of how cheap it was compared to others and also Tesco Direct came up best for a Dirt Devil for the caravan.Two months ago I bought a Philips shaver for £58 instead of £156 from Argos Online.

It is far easier sat at a computer than traipsing around different stores comparing prices.

Sad though because town centres are now dying except for banks, building societies, mobile phone and charity shops.

[antony1969]

Bought 2 new Fuji cameras today online , £20.00 cheaper per camera than going to store . Pay for a curry

[Dave225]

Online shopping will always be cheaper than the High Street because they have no rates or staff salaries to pay. They also can order items you request direct from the manufacturer and get them to deliver, so saving on stock levels.

 

However, the downside is that you cannot see the item ‘in the flesh’ and unless you know exactly what you want, you take a chance on getting something that is correct. Also, any damage and it has to be re-packed and sent back and yes, I know you get a replacement/refund etc but it does mean carting it down to the Post office. There is also the possibility of seeing something even better than what you had planned in the shop, or in the case of the ‘boss’ something else. Maybe not such a good idea. Also some shops such as John Lewis will often give you a longer guarantee at no charge.

 

There is also the factor that cannot be quantified in terms of cash and that is the pleasure (hopefully) of shopping for things such as birthday or Christmas presents and then wrapping/giving them, knowing that it took a little more thought than a search on Google. I know it is crowded and can be wet and cold but there is something to be said for walking the main street with all the Xmas lights and enjoying the markets and fairs. Lose all the shops and you give up on that and then life will be very boring.

 

[Brambles]

The other thing you can do when shopping online is use cashback sites and get even further savings.

Google shopping is great for finding the best prices along with many other price comparson sites and deal of the day sites which constantly are kept to date with special offers.

 

I personally use Top Cash back website and in the last year alone have made cash back of over £200 buying things I would have bought anyway. The best being this Dell computer which was a bargain anyway at £800 and then I got £60 back. With my car insurance I got a very competative quote by searching around and then got £25 back.

link to moneyback website . I even use it every time I want to buy something on ebay and get a few pennies back which all adds up, and is a genuine safe and free referral site and there are no catches or spam.

[pepe63xnotuse]

I tend to share Dave225's sentiments..

(..Although I would admit that if there was a real,major saving to be had,I would go the web route.. :$ )

 

I would say that of the times that we have bought online,most were because we just couldn't find the product/item we were after stocked locally...

(..I recently spent best part of an afternoon and probably a gallon and a half of diesel,driving around our local industrial/trading estate,trying to find some insulated "P" clips...only to end up getting a bag of 'em online,for about a fiver inc p&p *-) )

 

But..everything has consequences,if we don't use our local/High street shops,then we've only ourselves to blame when they're no longer there(..other than for a few "poundlands", charity shops and the odd touristy,trinket shop .... :-( )

 

 

 

 

 

[BGD]

This is, simply, but irresistibly, progress.

 

No-one can stop it, and only a fool would try.

 

Internet selling is simply another way of matching products with consumers - it is generally faster, easier, and significantly cheaper; thus the value of internet sales across all Developed Countries is growing massively month on month, year on year.

 

Many of the traditional high-street retailers have grasped this inevitability and now sell on-line as well as via their retail outlets. I expect that shift will gain further ground in the coming years.

 

I do not believe for a moment that it will completely replace "ordinary" shops - but those shops will have to think VERY hard about modifying what they sell, to move into niche areas where they can still have an edge over internet sellers.

There are no real morals amongst consumers.

Cheaper will always be the primary god of retailing, and internet selling can consistently deliver that via much lower staff costs, much lower overhead costs, much lower theft costs, much lower stock-holding costs.

 

 

 

 

[Hopesy]

On Wednesday last i bought an item from Amazon for £17 i didn't pay for delivery but it came the next day anyway!!!Great service. I saw the same item in a shop £27.

However there will be a need for traditional shops for items such as clothes shoes and the lke that customers like to view/try before buying.

 

[Dave225]

I recognise many of the points being made, but that does not mean that I feel they are all beneficial.

 

There have been many comments on this Forum bemoaning our lack of manufacturing, which is true but that has only left retail as a source of employment for those who were unable to get any high flying jobs. Many a teenager has started in the High Street before realising that the work is hard, the hours long and that he/she better get an improvement in life. But it did bring in money to their pocket and some hard experience. Remove that and you will have even more teenagers lying around your houses demanding you feed/clothe and pay for their entertainment. Those few pounds you saved may cost you in the end. I also accept that some may comment that many of our current High Street jobs appear to be performed by people who are not of UK nationality, but that could be changed easily. No jobs at all and we are left with what? In addition, many retail outlets in certain locations will attract customers and lead to spin off enterprises. Some are national names, others purely local but all offer something back to the community. Even the ex Police Box being opened up as a coffee stall needs customers. Not going to get them if they never leave home. Some have stated that certain items will always require the personal visit, but if they are all that is left, even they will not survive for long. Some on this Forum have stated they are 'saddened' by the loss of the High Street, but then again will not do anything to support it. The opportunity to get something cheap is evidently all that matters, especially if it is a non-UK Company they are buying it from.

 

I am not suggesting for a moment that everyone should stop using the internet, but all I do ask is to think carefully about why you use it, and maybe consider the long term implications for your children and grandchildren. I use it of course, but not regularly, usually for items I cannot get locally. Once you have nations who never leave the armchair and are glued to a screen to tell them everything they must do, have limited social interaction with others and well, it does not take too much to see the next step????? And anyone who feels things like Twitter are good social interaction really do need to think about it. Possibly a bit Orwellian I admit, but much of his novel has become fact. I am just a tad concerned about what may come next? Progress is a wonderful thing but only if it is beneficial.

[CliveH]

Sadly the demise of the classic "High St." is all but certain. Only the other week a writer to the letters page in a regional paper re. a town just north of Salisbury was ripping into his local council when they were bemoaning the fact that no -one shopped in "their" town anymore.

 

The writer gave them both barrels - first the council car parks charged extortionate rates, then the business rate charged to the shops and businesses means that the business has to earn a substantial sum of profit (not turnover - profit!) just to pay the rates and that is before rent and other expenses. The final nail in the coffin was the local council giving planning permission for two out of town supermarkets where people can park and do their shopping for just about anything for free.

 

Result? - One dead town centre.

 

Luckily where I live the New Forest Cist Council seems to be a little less brain dead in that my town has a couple of supermarkets in the town and no more are being allowed on the outskirts. Also, we have a resident’s car park clock that for £12 a year allows me 2 hours "free" parking in any of the New Forest Dist Counc. car parks. This is VERY handy and good value.

 

It means we DO use our local shops and as well as other local town centres.

 

When are other councils going to learn that making visiting their town a pleasant and inexpensive experience is going to help keep "their" town alive?

 

Instead they seem hell-bent of driving out cars and pushing them to out of town SimCities, or indeed onto the www.

 

[Retread24800]

I live near a small town of c3000 inhabitants, theres an optician, Pharmacy, several bars, Jeweller, Computer /TV sales and repair store several bread shops, shoes, clothes and food shops, Banks etc plus a twice weekly market...............................

:-)

;-)

And Free Parking B-)

:-D

Oh Yeah just remembered thats why I moved here!!!

[laimeduck]

I live in the Thames Valley - my nearest supermarket, Waitrose is 3 miles away. My nearest shopping town is 8 miles away, it has Tesco & Sainsbury's & limited local shops. To get a range of local independent shops, it is either Reading or Oxford, each 13 miles away.

Fuel costs & parking costs mean it costs me about £2.25 for the return drive to Waitrose, about £4.00 to drive to Tesco or Sainsbury's and about £ 8.00 to £10 to Oxford or Reading.

 

We thus do our major food shop in Waitrose, (or in bulk in Costco if I am driving past Reading). For all other things it is done on the Web -

There really is no economic contest ? ! It is not just about the higher prices on the High St - it costs me an arm & a leg to get to the High St 8-) 8-)

[Retread24800]

laimeduck - 2011-08-31 12:21 AM I live in the Thames Valley - my nearest supermarket, Waitrose is 3 miles away. My nearest shopping town is 8 miles away, it has Tesco & Sainsbury's & limited local shops. To get a range of local independent shops, it is either Reading or Oxford, each 13 miles away. Fuel costs & parking costs mean it costs me about £2.25 for the return drive to Waitrose, about £4.00 to drive to Tesco or Sainsbury's and about £ 8.00 to £10 to Oxford or Reading. We thus do our major food shop in Waitrose, (or in bulk in Costco if I am driving past Reading). For all other things it is done on the Web - There really is no economic contest ? ! It is not just about the higher prices on the High St - it costs me an arm & a leg to get to the High St 8-) 8-)

I assume that there are villages closer than that and that these villages are now dormitories with no services? If you take Clives' post above you will see why, ban the parking charge in commercial areas, (or give 2 hours of free parking) I know I was driven out of my home city when I found I could not afford to park while using local shops, thats why supermarkets don't charge, not so much use it or lose it, more forced away from it by greedy, shortsighted councils.

[Guest pelmetman]

Many people make the mistake of thinking A***a T****o are cheap8-)...............as someone who worships thrift:-D We rarely buy meat or veg from them as we have found local butchers and greengrocers who are much cheaper;-)

Better still.... we barter our surplus fruit with a chap in the village who gives us game in return:D......still got a couple of rabbits in the freezer. 

[laimeduck]

Retread24800 - 2011-08-30 11:47 PM

laimeduck - 2011-08-31 12:21 AM I live in the Thames Valley - my nearest supermarket, Waitrose is 3 miles away. My nearest shopping town is 8 miles away, it has Tesco & Sainsbury's & limited local shops. To get a range of local independent shops, it is either Reading or Oxford, each 13 miles away. Fuel costs & parking costs mean it costs me about £2.25 for the return drive to Waitrose, about £4.00 to drive to Tesco or Sainsbury's and about £ 8.00 to £10 to Oxford or Reading. We thus do our major food shop in Waitrose, (or in bulk in Costco if I am driving past Reading). For all other things it is done on the Web - There really is no economic contest ? ! It is not just about the higher prices on the High St - it costs me an arm & a leg to get to the High St 8-) 8-)

I assume that there are villages closer than that and that these villages are now dormitories with no services? If you take Clives' post above you will see why, ban the parking charge in commercial areas, (or give 2 hours of free parking) I know I was driven out of my home city when I found I could not afford to park while using local shops, thats why supermarkets don't charge, not so much use it or lose it, more forced away from it by greedy, shortsighted councils.

10 years ago we had 7 pubs in our "village", now we have one. There is a train station with connections to Oxford 20 mins, Reading 20 mins & London 1hr. The "village" now has a population of about 3000, but they all get on the train at 7am, then get off at 7pm & don't go out. So the pubs closed up. The bus service stops at 6pm so you can't get out of the village except by car - so you can't go to a nearby village pub. Its a vicious circle!

[Retread24800]

From Village to housing estate in half a generation, not a place you will be staying in when you retire ?

 Glad I left the rat race 7am to 7pm plus 1/2 hr travel from home to station=13 hours away less eight hours sleep leaves about three hours for eating and the toilet and they call that a life?

No time to shop or socialise so, yes, Internet shopping and a 'virtual' social scene too. B-)

[Brian Kirby]

But, we need to be careful! Trotting up and down the local High St to look at goods, and then buying them on the web, will eventually result in the disappearance from the High St of certain shops. So, where will you then go to look at, or try on, and maybe just compare, the size, shape, feel and quality of the item you want?

 

For some things, say computers, there is little presence on the High St, and one can more or less choose on the basis of maker's reputation and specification, so buying on-line (from a reputable on-line trader) carries no overall disadvantage.

 

However, what about items such as Martin's coffee maker? If we were all to follow his lead, the Hight St outlets will go, and there will be no-where to see and feel what is on offer, just a picture on a website, and a vague description that it is "10 cup capacity". Sorted - until you get it and find their idea of a "cup" was demi-tasse, and your idea of a cup was actually a mug. :-)

 

Without the High St shops, small or large, items such as food, clothing, cameras, cars, (even coffee makers!) etc, that have some element of visual or tactile quality, or are simply personal, are a complete no-man's land. Yes, you can sell cheaper from a virtual shed, and if all you want is cheap without reference to quality, then fine, but otherwise?

 

Shops, chain or otherwise, inevitably have high overheads relative to turnover. They must charge more to survive, and we need to understand that if we want them to survive, and just be prepared to pay that bit more at times to keep them alive.

 

France is different, mainly because the distances between towns are greater, on the whole, than in UK. Each town has a far larger catchment, geographically, than most of the towns UK, but probably about the same catchment in terms of population. Outside the major cities people still think locally, and use local shops, albeit several miles away. So their "centres commercial", that have all the large enterprises in sheds around the towns, have less dramatic impact on the town centres than in UK. They certainly have impact, in that the nature of town centre shops has changed, resulting in more boutiques, cafés, jewellers, estate agents, and specialist shops (all those "artisan" patissiers, chocolatiers, bakers, confectioners, local speciality sellers, charcutiers, game butchers, etc etc), that cater for a luxury trade rather than the humdrum day-to-day stuff. However, except in the relatively impoverished areas, even in smaller towns, the streets are lined with shops. It varies, and the down-turn has had its effect, but the shops are there and, if you want washing powder, you just go to the local, town edge, hyper.

 

What we seem to be craving is the retention of the local butcher and greengrocer in our High Street, when the weekly shop can be completed more quickly, much easily, and overall at lower cost for equivalent quality in a supermarket. That is what won't work, because the efficiencies of the supermarkets means they will, as they do, dominate. So, as stated above, the shop owners need to change their games, go for quality over quantity, or find some alternative slant that gives them a trading advantage. Those too dull to spot the need to change will go, but they will, eventually, be replaced with others who "get it". It is just the way of markets: everything changes over time, as we, and commerce, adapt to new ways, be they improved transport, chain stores, catalogue sales, telephone sales, or internet sales.

[Guest pelmetman]

Until the councils create a level playing field by making out of town stores charge for parking, or better still scrap town centre parking charges the high street will continue to disappear*-)

Along with a government revenue stream from the business rates and the councils will lose out on the parking revenue as there will be no reason to go to a high street;-)...........Shooting the golden goose springs to mind*-)

[BGD]

Brian: "Shops, chain or otherwise, inevitably have high overheads relative to turnover. They must charge more to survive, and we need to understand that if we want them to survive, and just be prepared to pay that bit more at times to keep them alive."

 

 

 

 

 

My point exactly.

 

The vast, overwhelming majority of people will bemoan the loss of high street shops, will sign on-line petitions against such changes, will say it is terrible and shouldn't be allowed to happen.

 

And then will buy an increasing amount of goods on-line, crowing that they are so much cheaper than in "rip-off" high street stores.

 

This change, as a result of technological progress, has no moral compass.

It simply happens, because regardless of what we say, what we actually DO collectively, is driving it.

 

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Brian Kirby - 2011-08-31 11:59 AM

 

Shops, chain or otherwise, inevitably have high overheads relative to turnover. They must charge more to survive, and we need to understand that if we want them to survive, and just be prepared to pay that bit more at times to keep them alive.

 

 

I can understand your reasoning Brian but my loyalty to High St. shops doesn't stretch to paying £116 more than I can get the same taps online or the £113 I saved on the towel radiator. It isn't as if one is only saving a few quid by going online. It's loadsamoney and as a pensioner I need every penny I can get :-) What, with the high cost of club sites now I'm reduced to whittling clothes pegs whilst Her Ladyship goes around knocking on doors flogging them just to pay site fee's :-(

[AliB]

One of the arguments for introducing an Aire network is that visitors will use the local shops and businesses. Someone better hurry up and start this Aire network before the local businesses close!

[Brian Kirby]

Lord Braykewynde - 2011-08-31 12:57 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2011-08-31 11:59 AM

 

Shops, chain or otherwise, inevitably have high overheads relative to turnover. They must charge more to survive, and we need to understand that if we want them to survive, and just be prepared to pay that bit more at times to keep them alive.

 

 

I can understand your reasoning Brian but my loyalty to High St. shops doesn't stretch to paying £116 more than I can get the same taps online or the £113 I saved on the towel radiator. It isn't as if one is only saving a few quid by going online. It's loadsamoney and as a pensioner I need every penny I can get :-) What, with the high cost of club sites now I'm reduced to whittling clothes pegs whilst Her Ladyship goes around knocking on doors flogging them just to pay site fee's :-(

 

But your Lordship so well illustrates, with his post, why the aristocracy has lost authority.

 

To know the online source was cheaper than was the humble purveyor in your Lordship's estate Hight St, your Lordship must, perforce, have perused the goods in your Lordship's estate High St purveyor's premises.

 

I therefore respectfully suggest that by this denial of your Lordship's patronage, your Lordship's estate High St purveyor will find himself embarrassed for funds, unable to pay his estate rents, and will thus be forced to put up his shutters for once and for all. Thus, your Lordship will, at a stroke of his own making, be devoid of a most useful source of tap washers and Boss White, and of an equally useful source of indicative prices for the goods he requires.

 

Your Lordship will henceforth be totally reliant on virtual pictures of such taps and towel radiators as your Lordship may require, and, when your Lordship discovers that the items bought online are in fact mere facsimiles, fashioned in plastics and other grossly inferior materials, made in the far east and supplied by a trader in the Channel Islands, and so out of your Lordship's jurisdiction, he will be Royally stuffed! And deservedly so, I fear. :-)

 

By the way, is your Lordship one of the Borinold Braykewyndes, or from the Scillyold branch of the family?

[Lord Braykewynde]

Brian Kirby - 2011-08-31 3:45 PM

 

By the way, is your Lordship one of the Borinold Braykewyndes, or from the Scillyold branch of the family?

 

Neither.

My ancestors came to these fair shores from the flat Ulant marshes of Denmark. My great grandfather, twenty five times removed, was Phluffer Tornass, a lowland Dane. He received his Baronetcy from one of the Marcher Lords for his allegiance and servitude in helping to keep out the Celtic hordes by allowing his peasants and serfs to patrol Offa's Dyke. It was here that Phluffer courted and married Lady Pooter, the daughter of another Marcher lord, Baron Swelsher. See, His Windyship has true aristocratic blood.

[Guest pelmetman]

Lord Braykewynde - 2011-08-31 4:45 PM  His Windyship has true aristocratic blood.

That's nuffink:D........I come from a long line of pearly kings & queens;-).......there's proper royalty for yer(lol)