rolandrat Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 The journey to Annfield Plain from home took 3 hours to get the snags to our new motorhome sorted out and after spending all day there I came away with an electrical problem not being sorted due to a faulty EC500 Sargent control box so it was another 3 hours to return home possitively p----d off. Hopefully Sargent will send me a replacement to changeover myself as I dont fancy going back up there again unless it's absolutely necessary. They also took photographs of the lounge upholstery as quite a bit of stitching has come adrift so we will be off the road when it is taken away for rectifiction. The company also bring it back to your home. The dealer is well respected and whilst I was there I met 2 couples who were touring and had developed problems which they took into their workshop and were repaired while they waited, thats what you can call service at its best. I think there's a lot to be said about buying as close to home as possible if the dealer has a good reputation, if not then you have no choice but to go further afield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuevoboy Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 'scuse my ignorance, but could you please tell me who is at Annfield Plain? Only curious because that's where my ancestors come from. :-S There must be loads of folks like myself who don't have dealers nearby and are at the mercy of the gods when it comes to problems revisiting dealers. Hope you get sorted soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Annfield Plain is the town where Tyne Valley Motorhomes have their service centre. They have a very skilled workforce who carry out just about every kind of repairs and servicing on motorhomes including MOT's unfortunately they don't stock Sargent EC500 control boxes so I have an outstanding problem with my AutoTrail Apache 634u. Sargent E-mailed me very early this morning to say that a new EC500 is on its way to my home via a courier, thats what I call customer service at its best. I have also had a call from Leisure Furnishings to say that they will call and pick up the faulty upholstery and return it within a week so another company has a good system in place to help AutoTrail owners. What other Manufacturer has customer support dealers in place to respond to breakdowns and faulty components so quickly? Autotrail might have one or two gremlins now and again,I for one have been a victim like many other owners including the owner of the 630 in the latest 3m's, we have a gripe but move on. I will always say that AutoTrail make a very good motorhome even though problems do arise occasionally, so for me they are one of the best at what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 nuevoboy - 2011-09-09 7:10 P Ooop's, didn't read the post proper. Sorry Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 Well the EC500 arrived this morning as promised via a courier, well done to Sargent . I've removed the faulty one and put the replacement one in and hey presto all the motorhomes electrics are functioning ok. I couldn't have wished for better service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 In a former life I was a Quality Engineer in the Aerospace business, I always believed that the very best manufacturers had no customer after sales service network because it wasnt needed. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 Thats a complete nonsense retread, you only have to go back recently when there were problems with the latest airbus developing problems with its engines. There's no hard shoulder to pullover on up there. Where was quality control then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 rolandrat - 2011-09-13 10:03 AM Thats a complete nonsense retread, you only have to go back recently when there were problems with the latest airbus developing problems with its engines. There's no hard shoulder to pullover on up there. Where was quality control then? One incident that made World headlines. My premise still holds. If the Aerospace Industry was as incompetent as the caravan Business, the aircraft wouldn't even get out the hanger without something dropping off.If we take your example of a brand new PDI'd vehicle , three hours in dock, and still not sorted, together with the two other families requiring emergency help at the same time? Did any body check it out, who will lose their job?The Leisure Manufacturers are taking the P......... There is no need to suffer this level of sheer incompetence. Its not as if the products are cutting edge? for goodness sake if they can't even sew a cushion together, how bad is the rest of the vehicle where you can't see it?.They have no right to be in business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 Retread you are 100% right in what you say, it is far from being a perfect world and there will always be quality problems and quality control in many industries is more than poor in some instances. The leisure industry being one of them. It makes you wonder what sort of management some of these companies have. Thank goodness the Nuclear Power Industry has very tight controls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I become almost incandescent when I read about some consumer congratulating an organisation for fixing a problem with a nearly new vehicle or any other product. He should be spitting bullets not Kow-tow ing to the repair man.My reason? The Product should be designed and built so that it is fit for purpose. No arguments if it doesn't work every time, first time the engineers who built it are incompetent or else the firm is run by accountants with their eye firmly set on the end of week figures rather than the long term survival in a World economy.You only have to cast your mind back a few years to see what happened to the British motorcycle industry when Honda appeared It was revolutionary to be able to buy a bike that didn't need a full kit of spanners to go from London to Brighton, I'm not anti British I'm anti BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 One motorhome that came in for repair was a new Berstner it was a top of the range model A class the owner was far from happy as the roof to back panel joint was leaking in water and had damaged the bed linen and mattress, he also had had four fridge repairs done on it and was still faulty. He was full of praise for the gaffer tape that stopped the water cascading in. I think they are built in Germany. Quality problems affect all manufactures,probably water ingress being the worst as it can travel all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 rolandrat - 2011-09-14 10:44 AM Quality problems affect all manufactures. Doesn't mean we have to accept it lying down.:-)The more we kick and scream the sooner Industry will wake up. A few court cases against them stating loss of enjoyment, cost of lost time etc, its just not good enough that they pay parts and labour what about your costs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 My costs from Lancashire to Annfield Plain was virtually 3/4's of a tank of diesel and no help with out of pocket expenses was offered. Sitting in the reception area and listening to all that was going on with incoming calls from customers with problems and how they were dealt with was a real eye opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I can only quote figures from 2003 But then the caravan Industry in total was worth £B3 and of this approx 8000 New motor homes (Domestic and foreign Manufactured) were registered in the UK. Your experience on one day with one dealer shows that the attention to detail is just not there. The same story must be being repeated all over the country!!! You pay for a quality item, you pay for a Pre delivery inspection and then you pay through the nose when it becomes obvious that the manufacturers and the dealer have not lived up to their side of the deal, they should pay your out of pocket expenses or should collect your camper and provide a replacement, just as you would expect if you paid from £40,000 to £150,000 for a car, you certainly shouldn't contact a magazine saying what good service you received its not good , its appalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Bet these remarks won't appear in MMM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted September 25, 2011 Author Share Posted September 25, 2011 Still at it. Decided to tour Oxfordshire after thinking that all the problems were now behind us, booked in at Oxford, levelled up then my wife said that we have no water coming through the tap. The pump was rattling away but no flow so I put it down to the work that had just been completed at the dealers as the sink and fridge had been worked on. Wrong it was the pipe in the underslung tank that had come adrift so we packed everything away and arrived up at Autotrail at 1020pm. The following morning it was taken into their works to have the tank removed and a new water pipe fitted. It seems that a batch of rougue tanks have been fitted and I am one of the victims. Up to now most of my mileage has been racked up travelling between the dealer and Autotrail getting manufacturing faults rectified and I still have outstanding issues to be put right. We have just returned from the show at Lincoln and after listening to other owners I think I am getting off fairly lightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 You need to move to Lincolnshire Roland......It will save you a fortune in getting your camper fixed:D Coincidentally we have our house for sale in Lincolnshire, with a garage big enough for an Auto Trail;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 pelmetman - 2011-09-25 4:54 PM Coincidentally we have our house for sale in Lincolnshire, with a garage big enough for an Auto Trail;-) Might save on damp problems with it under cover all the time?:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Just sent a link to this thread to Auto-Trail on sales@auto-trail.co.uk wonder if we will now get lots of replies from 'Satisfied Customer' ?:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted September 26, 2011 Author Share Posted September 26, 2011 Although there have and still are issues with my latest Apache 634 it isn't the end of the world, gradually they are being resolved, the most important thing is the response that Tyne Valley and Autotrail have in place plus companies like Sargent Electronics and Leisure Furnishings. Yes it's damned inconvenient and frustrating at times but I wonder what the response would be like if my motorhome was foreign built. This situation won't stop me being a fan of Autotrail because I firmly believe they are still one of the best motorhomes on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger20 Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Because Autotrail are one of the big UK manufacturers you do tend to hear a bit more about problems from owners. However other makes, like the Burstner mentioned above also have problems which we don't tend to hear about. It would be nice to hear some counterbalance about problems with foreign vans now and again! What is important is the attitude of the dealer and the manufacturer when issues arise and I agree with Roland that Autotrail are very good in this respect. They listen to their customers and when there are issues they respond helpfully, as evidenced by the good feedback they get about their dedicated customer service centre at Grimsby. What's important is to recognise that compared to the mas-produced car industry these are still essentially low volume hand-built products with all the human frailties this entails. Customers who go in with 'all guns blazing' will inevitably face more difficulties than those who have patience, frustrating as it can be with a new van which "should" be better than they often are. All the more reason, as Roland says, to find a good local dealer who you can work with. I'm not sure I entirely agree with retread about using Honda as an example of perfection. If he thinks back a long way to the first VFR750 it had fundamental issues so even they didn't get it right first time . The difference was that Honda recognised this, made their next version bullet-proof and built a reputation on it. Same for Porsche which had quite a few issues with early 911s and Boxsters but as far as I know they are very reliable now, simply as a result of engineering evolution. Its how the manufacturer responds which is important, hence Mercedes (perhaps undeserved) reputation. If only Fiat could have seen this when the reversing issue was at its height they could have jumped a rung or 2 on the reputation ladder at very little cost. Instead I suspect they lost some customers for life. So far as costs of returning vehicles for repair this has, for me at least been an irritation, resolved in part by dialogue but also by the simple expedient of doing as much repair work as I can myself. It would be interesting to know whether this has ever been challenged in the courts because if a product is not fit for purpose, the customer should not be out of pocket as a result. Given the threat of taking cases to the Small Claims Court which Honest John in the Daily Telegraph encourages I suspect there might well be sympathy going down that route - or a bargaining ploy at the very least! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francisgraham Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 roger20 - 2011-09-26 7:23 PMBecause Autotrail are one of the big UK manufacturers you do tend to hear a bit more about problems from owners. However other makes, like the Burstner mentioned above also have problems which we don't tend to hear about. It would be nice to hear some counterbalance about problems with foreign vans now and again!What is important is the attitude of the dealer and the manufacturer when issues arise and I agree with Roland that Autotrail are very good in this respect. They listen to their customers and when there are issues they respond helpfully, as evidenced by the good feedback they get about their dedicated customer service centre at Grimsby.What's important is to recognise that compared to the mas-produced car industry these are still essentially low volume hand-built products with all the human frailties this entails. Customers who go in with 'all guns blazing' will inevitably face more difficulties than those who have patience, frustrating as it can be with a new van which "should" be better than they often are. All the more reason, as Roland says, to find a good local dealer who you can work with. I'm not sure I entirely agree with retread about using Honda as an example of perfection. If he thinks back a long way to the first VFR750 it had fundamental issues so even they didn't get it right first time . The difference was that Honda recognised this, made their next version bullet-proof and built a reputation on it. Same for Porsche which had quite a few issues with early 911s and Boxsters but as far as I know they are very reliable now, simply as a result of engineering evolution.Its how the manufacturer responds which is important, hence Mercedes (perhaps undeserved) reputation. If only Fiat could have seen this when the reversing issue was at its height they could have jumped a rung or 2 on the reputation ladder at very little cost. Instead I suspect they lost some customers for life.So far as costs of returning vehicles for repair this has, for me at least been an irritation, resolved in part by dialogue but also by the simple expedient of doing as much repair work as I can myself. It would be interesting to know whether this has ever been challenged in the courts because if a product is not fit for purpose, the customer should not be out of pocket as a result. Given the threat of taking cases to the Small Claims Court which Honest John in the Daily Telegraph encourages I suspect there might well be sympathy going down that route - or a bargaining ploy at the very least! What a pleasure to read a reasoned and reasonable post regarding motorhomes, their manufacture and the dealers who sell them. I'm getting a little tired of the bile and vindictive comments which paint every one involved in the industry as thieves and conmen. I was particularly amused by the comment about the aero indistry and how it doesn't need quality control! As one who has spent many hours in airport lounges waiting for the plane that's been delayed for technical reasons or because a warning light has come on and no one's actually sure if there's a fault I'll tend do disagree with the infallibility of those who build planes! Motorhome manufacturers are like any other business or profession. They live or die on pleasing their clients. They won't always get it right because ordinary human beings are involved, not the supermen who build aeroplanes but, as you implied, a company should be judged not just on whether its product develops a fault but on how it responds and how it treats its customers when dealing with the fault. My experience is limited, but up to now it's been one of utter satisfaction, with the product and with the dealer who sold it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 If you log into 'Motorhomefantasy' and go through the marque dedicated threads you will find ongoing problems with all makers ( should I say assemblers?), domestic and others. My point is that we should not be happy when a van fails, especially because for many people, that failure means the ruination of a long planned and well deserved break. If my memory serves me well VW had a large force of Inspectors to spot the problems not uncovered on line, and Beetles were known as the cheapest hand (re) built cars after rectification, BUT the customer was not faced with the result, It wasn't until the Japanese, followed by Ford started to spot the defects in their design and manufacture and in their supplier chain that the efficient status of the motor industry came about, With a smaller industry, like Motor homes, the Customer is much closer to the retailer and the manufacturer, Constant complaints about the poor quality of component parts fitted do no one any good. Perhaps we should also learn from the Rolls-Royce ( A small scale hand built manufacturer) story, remember" "We have no record of our cars breaking down" No because they didn't keep the records, and fixed their error at Rolls-Royce's cost, at the stately home of the irate owner and then went back to t' mill and fixed the problem at source.!!!!Lesson in there somewhere B-). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 francisgraham - 2011-09-26 8:48 PM My experience is limited, but up to now it's been one of utter satisfaction, with the product and with the dealer who sold it to me. I note that you are a little shy in telling the world about this paragon of virtue you travel in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francisgraham Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Retread24800 - 2011-09-26 8:17 PMfrancisgraham - 2011-09-26 8:48 PM My experience is limited, but up to now it's been one of utter satisfaction, with the product and with the dealer who sold it to me. I note that you are a little shy in telling the world about this paragon of virtue you travel in? Not at all, it's a Hymer Van. I actually tried to put it in my membership details well after I joined but for some reason it wouldn't accept it. Now that I've decided that I'm going to like this motor-homing lark I've ordered a new Hobby Van Exclusive which arrives any day. Anyway, why are you so incandescent (your word) and worked up about dealers and their service? You don't appear to have visited one for eighteen years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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