Life Expectancy???

[Dave225]

Is life expectancy really rising at the rate we are being told? Evidently we are all now going to live until we are in our 90’s or even more but somehow that does not seem to marry with what we see. Yes, I do have a friend who is in his early 90’s and he is still very sprightly, but even he tells us that he sometimes feels very alone as all his mates have long gone, so he is the exception rather than the rule. Evidently, it is the next generations who are going to have all this longevity, but when I look at the long hours my kids are working just to make something of their lives I have a little bit of doubt that their bodies will still be functioning 100% at these proposed ages. Or will medical science give them ‘rebuilds’ of all the bits they have knackered over the years? If so, sounds encouraging but will they get that on the NHS I wonder?? The rich and famous seem to have good health but then again they get the very best of treatment immediately.

 

Where I live ‘north of the Wall’ life expectancy in the west is far lower than in London for example. In Glasgow if you get to your 70’s and are basically still walking, you are still doing better than average and any more is just not considered. It has been like that since time began. Is it all going to suddenly change over the next 20- 30 years especially when the people there have poor diets and lifestyles. Fags and chips are still staple diets. I am not staing all Glaswegians are in that group, before someone hits me, but the hospitals there indicate a poorer lifestyle on average. Similar trends exist in Liverpool, Manchester etc

 

So my point is if all the pension changes we are being forced to accept are based on a premise that will only affect a minority of the population then are we being duped, yet again?

 

As you can see I am bored on this wet and stormy afternoon.

 

[nightrider]

If you are a member of the royal family where every mortal thing is done for you even to the extent of having your toothpaste squeezed onto your tooth brush, you will live to a jolly ripe old age.

They say hard work never killed anyone, I would beg to differ.

[Guest pelmetman]

We may well be living longer, but there's not much point in just surviving if you don't have your health;-)............My Old man had his first heart attack at 50, he enjoyed them so much he's had several more8-) 

He's 80 this year, and lives in Spain on his own as my Mum killed herself with fags a few years back, he didn't retire until he was 70 and hasn't had the health to enjoy his retirement*-)

Which is why I semi retired 7 years ago at 46...........I'd rather enjoy myself now:D.......................................Just in case;-)  

[CliveH]

Wise words Dave

 

Wise words

 

Life expectancy is improving - the actuarial tables do clearly show this. But there is a sub set of data re diet, smoking and alcohol abuse that also clearly shows that a proportion of the population has a death wish.

 

Overweight women in particular are not likely to live as long as their mothers assuming their mothers were not overweight. Add smoking and alcohol excess and come on down you grim reaper.

 

The same is true of men but from what I see the data is not quite as clear cut as with women. I think it is probably because we men tend to not live as long as women anyway and so a sub-group that suddenly starts dying earlier than expected is more noticeable.

 

[Guest Tracker]

Over eating, eating the wrong foods, smoking and alcohol abuse are all absolutely within the control of everyone regardless of where they live or their income so all those folk who choose to eat, smoke and booze themselves into an early coffin have nobody to blame but themselves and I find it hard to have any sympathy?

 

We are each the master of our own destiny and, like it or not, we have to accept full responsibility for our own actions and for the way we choose to live our lives.

 

The people I do feel a lot of sympathy for are those whose lives are cut short through no fault of their own like accidents, unpredictable diseases and natural disasters - plus of course all those good folk who do all the right things but never get to see the pension they saved so dilligently for.

 

By and large we are the fortunate generation to have so much knowledge and information available to allow us to take control of large parts of our lives and immediate environment like no other generation before us was able to.

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Your right Rich, we have the knowledge to live long and healthy lives;-)................then some underage driver wipes you out on a damp Tuesday morning8-)

As the saying goes "Life's a bitch then you die"........I think my only vice is the demon drink............and no doubt it has led to some of my more interesting moments:$

[nightrider]

A little bit of what you fancy does you good, I am a great believer in moderation in all things, be that having a drink or a smoke, I am not a drinking man but I do like a smoke, not shop bought fags, can't stand the smell of em, Golden Virginia is my choice and of course I have every respect for non smokers, I can also roll a ciggy with one hand while sat on my hoss, just like the Duke, John Wayne.

[Retread24800]

knight of the road - 2011-09-12 10:16 PM A little bit of what you fancy does you good, I am a great believer in moderation in all things, be that having a drink or a smoke, I am not a drinking man but I do like a smoke, not shop bought fags, can't stand the smell of em, Golden Virginia is my choice and of course I have every respect for non smokers, I can also roll a ciggy with one hand while sat on my hoss, just like the Duke, John Wayne.

Don't you get P**&^d off with the P.C brigade, Anything you enjoy is bad for you, but living is fatal too!

'Giving -up' Won't necessarily prolong your life but it sure as hell will feel like it.

[CliveH]

 

 

I certainly have no sympathy for the PC brigade - anything but from my perspective.

 

That said, I do think that various fly on the wall documentaries about what the NHS and Police have to put up with from people who have no respect for their own health or lives and so put others at risk or cost society and huge and disproportionate sum either treating their self inflicted problems or saving them from themselves, is having an effect on those of us that are reasonably sensible in all that we do.

 

I for one am mightily fed up with seeing how drunks, drug addicts and over indulgers tie up huge NHS and police resources. The cost to the tax payer must be huge.

 

Isn't it about time we applied a three strikes or similar to some of these habitual abusers of themselves and society?

 

[ips]

Don't you get P**&^d off with the P.C brigade, Anything you enjoy is bad for you, but living is fatal too!

'Giving -up' Won't necessarily prolong your life but it sure as hell will feel like it.

Agree ...... imagine this scenario. You enjoy drinking and smoking and you like a pizza. But you give up due to media pressure etc etc. and become a teatotal none drinkin fitness geek. Ten very tedious years later your lying in hospital on your death bed due to a totally unrelated incident (road accident or whatever) your then thinking "I may as well have enjoyed myself drinkin and smokin for the last 10 years instead of suffering daily with the cant do this mustnt do that" Yep you could die of a lifestyle related illness or ..... you might not, you just never know till its too late. Its a pity we couldnt know our fate in advance

[Retread24800]

CliveH - 2011-09-13 9:27 AM I certainly have no sympathy for the PC brigade - anything but from my perspective. That said, I do think that various fly on the wall documentaries about what the NHS and Police have to put up with from people who have no respect for their own health or lives and so put others at risk or cost society and huge and disproportionate sum either treating their self inflicted problems or saving them from themselves, is having an effect on those of us that are reasonably sensible in all that we do. I for one am mightily fed up with seeing how drunks, drug addicts and over indulgers tie up huge NHS and police resources. The cost to the tax payer must be huge. Isn't it about time we applied a three strikes or similar to some of these habitual abusers of themselves and society?

Thats a bit OTT, you cannot equate someone who likes a glass of wine with his meal to a meths drinking Junkie, how about a bit of reasonableness here, maybe you would like to imprison the obese, city dwellers, joggers, mountain climbers, firemen etc? all of whom endanger their lives daily. 

[Guest Tracker]

Retread24800 - 2011-09-13 9:27 AM

CliveH - 2011-09-13 9:27 AM I certainly have no sympathy for the PC brigade - anything but from my perspective. That said, I do think that various fly on the wall documentaries about what the NHS and Police have to put up with from people who have no respect for their own health or lives and so put others at risk or cost society and huge and disproportionate sum either treating their self inflicted problems or saving them from themselves, is having an effect on those of us that are reasonably sensible in all that we do. I for one am mightily fed up with seeing how drunks, drug addicts and over indulgers tie up huge NHS and police resources. The cost to the tax payer must be huge. Isn't it about time we applied a three strikes or similar to some of these habitual abusers of themselves and society?

Thats a bit OTT, you cannot equate someone who likes a glass of wine with his meal to a meths drinking Junkie, how about a bit of reasonableness here, maybe you would like to imprison the obese, city dwellers, joggers, mountain climbers, firemen etc? all of whom endanger their lives daily. 

Here we seem to have an example of Roger not reading what Clive wrote? Nobody has any issue with moderation but I'm absolutely with Clive on the abuse of services and staff by a vociferous minority who it seems all know their rights but not their responsibilities.I don't know what the answer is and I don't support with holding treatment but there must be a way of making the irresponsible answerable for their own actions. Being drunk or drugged is not a justification to be offensive or violent and once medical treatment has been given perhaps a night in a police cell might be more appropriate and sobering than sending them home.

[Retread24800]

Tracker - 2011-09-13 10:41 AM

Retread24800 - 2011-09-13 9:27 AM

CliveH - 2011-09-13 9:27 AM I certainly have no sympathy for the PC brigade - anything but from my perspective. That said, I do think that various fly on the wall documentaries about what the NHS and Police have to put up with from people who have no respect for their own health or lives and so put others at risk or cost society and huge and disproportionate sum either treating their self inflicted problems or saving them from themselves, is having an effect on those of us that are reasonably sensible in all that we do. I for one am mightily fed up with seeing how drunks, drug addicts and over indulgers tie up huge NHS and police resources. The cost to the tax payer must be huge. Isn't it about time we applied a three strikes or similar to some of these habitual abusers of themselves and society?

Thats a bit OTT, you cannot equate someone who likes a glass of wine with his meal to a meths drinking Junkie, how about a bit of reasonableness here, maybe you would like to imprison the obese, city dwellers, joggers, mountain climbers, firemen etc? all of whom endanger their lives daily. 

Here we seem to have an example of Roger not reading what Clive wrote? Nobody has any issue with moderation but I'm absolutely with Clive on the abuse of services and staff by a vociferous minority who it seems all know their rights but not their responsibilities. I don't know what the answer is and I don't support with holding treatment but there must be a way of making the irresponsible answerable for their own actions. Being drunk or drugged is not a justification to be offensive or violent and once medical treatment has been given perhaps a night in a police cell might be more appropriate and sobering than sending them home.

Huge resources?

I hold no brief for people who over indulge in any harmful activity, People who do so have only themselves to blame but it is still a fairly free country despite the continuing encroachment of the Nanny state, My experience with the low life featured in TV documentaries is that a fair proportion have mental health or educational issues, Care in the community doesn't work. These TV dramas are the equivalent to a visit to Bedlam in an earlier century, Sit back, Tut, Tut, Tut. And its cheap to edit together this sort of footage.

Air ambulances, air-sea rescue, mountain rescue, the Coast guard services, beach life guards etc all in place to cover leisure activities. If you take the number of Drunks out and hospitalised over an average W/E as a proportion of those taking part in the Clubbin' scene the expenditure per head equates very well with the resources spent rescuing 'Adrenaline' junkies, W/E surfers and unsupervised Children from their folly. But would we feel so smug if it was a 70year old M/h'er being featured having to be airlifted because he had put his back out struggling with a portapotti Cassette, and the 'Voice Over' announcing how much it cost to rescue the silly old s*d who would have been safer at home in his Lay-Z-boy?

[nightrider]

I've no probs with anyone indulging in dangerous extreme sports, after all where would we be without our adventurous types?

The ones I take issue with are drug abusers, excessive drinkers and over eaters, drug dealers in my opinion should end up swinging on a rope.

While sat in my comfy armchair in my "office" a cup of tea in one hand and a roll up in the other I have quietly solved a lot of the worlds problems, trouble is, no one takes a blind bit of notice!

[Dave225]

Nice comments but as with many things, drifting slightly from the track. My main point was do most of us actually believe the next generations will be living fullsome and happy lives in their 90's as the reports are suggesting. What is my concern is that pension ages are being delayed at ever more rapid rates supposedly based on this premise. Somehow I just do not see it, and I am ignoring theones who by their own hands choose to shorten their lives. I am looking at Joe and Juliette Average. Wandering around any cemetery, well what else to do on a wet day? and the average age on gravestones seem to range from late 50's to 70's and a few 80's. Yes, I am sure someone can point out the centenarians but I am talking average. So they all retired at either 60 or 65 and lived another 15-20 years, if they were lucky. Many of us had family members who never saw anything like that, and yes, I know cancer was a scurge in times gone by. Now you will retire at 67 and live for the same length of time to late 80's or more. All of a sudden things have dramatically changed???

 

Sorry I don't see that lifestyles have improved to such an extent. Yes there are sprightly 70 year olds running around in caravans and motorhomes, but there are probably far more not doing so because they are not able.

 

Now if the powers that be were to state 'look, we are not letting you retire at a normal age because it costs too much' then fine, at least we know. Of course then people would be entitled to ask what they are paying for. But to hide it behind 'Oh, you are going to live far longer so...' and then this allows the Pension Companies to keep your money for even longer, and charge you even more for the priviledge sounds about normal I guess.

 

Do I suspect that as usual money scams are being hidden by so called 'health reasons' yet agin?

[nightrider]

Ones life expectancy is in the lap of the gods, you have a fair chance of dying in a accident, a fair chance of dying by over indulgence, it is fate and whatever is written in the stars.

No point in worrying about it just enjoy life as it comes, I am 70 in a couple of weeks and count my blessings, if I had a pound for everyone of my old school mates who have shuffled off this mortal coil I would have a fair few quid in my back pocket.

[nowtelse2do]

Dave225 - 2011-09-13 4:39

 

Now if the powers that be were to state 'look, we are not letting you retire at a normal age because it costs too much' then fine, at least we know. Of course then people would be entitled to ask what they are paying for. But to hide it behind 'Oh, you are going to live far longer so...' and then this allows the Pension Companies to keep your money for even longer, and charge you even more for the priviledge sounds about normal I guess.

 

Do I suspect that as usual money scams are being hidden by so called 'health reasons' yet agin?

 

Spot on Dave. It does not seem to long ago that the pension age for women was lowered and talk of male pension age being lowered so as to give us a longer retirement (at least that was one of the reasons) Another reason could have been to bribe us at voting time. 'No' I hear you say, the government would not do that, would they? So someone must have been way out in their costings. assessment then, weren't they.

 

Dave

 

[Guest Tracker]

Ever since the formation of the NHS, AVERAGE life expectancy in the UK has grown almost year on year.

 

It is a fact - you can't argue with it!

 

Averages are made up of lows, normal and highs and the highs increase the average so the lows decrease it!

 

Just because a minority of people choose to place themselves in the low life expectancy bracket does not make any difference to the rest of us as we will still live as long as expanding medical science and improving lifestyles allow - on average.

 

I wouldn't bet against any of us living into our ninetys - neither would I bet against any of us not living past our seventys.

 

That's why it's called an average!

[ips]

knight of the road - 2011-09-13 4:59 PM

Ones life expectancy is in the lap of the gods, you have a fair chance of dying in a accident, a fair chance of dying by over indulgence, it is fate and whatever is written in the stars.

.

 

Totally agree, I beleive that unless you REALLY abuse your body that your life expectancy is blueprinted. Life has thrown some stuff at me over the years ... very unamicable (to say the least) divorce, Dad dying very suddenly 20 yrs ago etc etc etc. Taught me one thing and that is if you can...then do it now cos you never know if you will be fit enough to do it or have the money to do it or indeed still be here to do it on retirement. I am self employed (well partner with brother) and my personal pension that I took out on advice when I first started in 1985 isnt worth a carrot so retirement is very much out of the question for me, however I aim to semi retire very soon prob do 3 days a week. mini ips is now settled in her very good job in Windsor and mrs ips may be in a position to cut her hours in the next few years so .... so watch this space. :-D

[JamesFrance]

You can try this to see what they reckon has an effect on your life expectancy.

 

http://www.northwesternmutual.com/learning-center/the-longevity-game.aspx