Guest 1footinthegrave Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 You just don't get it do you, good luck with your retirement plans, I'm just trying to say for some through whatever reason cannot make the same " choices" they have to make a living, week in, week out, more often than not earning just enough to get by until they get their metre state pension at 65. You need them, I need them, everybody needs them. We can't all have "choices" the world would grind to a halt if we did, think about that the next time your getting checked out in the supermarket, just as I said keep a low profile that you were able to have "choices " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-10-21 7:10 PM To Mel B Perhaps a "blog" would be a better place to tell the world of your plans, after all this is supposed to be "Motorhome matters" not with respect " MEL B's life plan matters" some may be fascinated, but perhaps "chatter box" may have been a better place. You have the answer to that then, don't read it. I chose to put it on Motorhome Matters simply because most of my forum friends frequent this rather than the chatterbox section, no more, no less than that. If you feel so strongly about it why not ask the moderator to move this to the chatterbox section? I don't mind. I will say you do not have to spell it all out chapter and verse, and strange that you perpetuate the £9000 fee's. As you well know there are NO fee's until students are earning a substantial salary after they have left university, and in many cases it will NEVER have to be repaid ( am I better informed than you I wonder ) Oh dear, a self appointed expert ... regardless of WHEN it is going to have to be paid back, it is still INCURRED, and still a debt. Some people will have to pay it back and they don't know what jobs they're going to be able to get when they leave university, which, is putting people off applying to come to university. Also, although they don't have to pay the full £9,000 up front each year, some universities still require some payment. Add this to the fact that lots of families are struggling to meet their normal household bills, let alone paying for their son/daughter to attend university, including paying for accommodation (which isn't deferred), books, food etc, and the simplistic view you have is way off the mark. What do I know? Well, I just work there and know what goes on in the 'real' world, not from what I read or maybe from a limited amount of personal experience. And to Brian I say this, if we all chose to be something other than truck drivers, foundry workers, service industry workers, or yes even the mechanic or M/home production line worker we all depend upon, the world would be a very different place. The one thing these folk have in common is retirement means working to 65 with no golden handshake at the end. I thought it was quite simple, retirement age for men is 65 and women 60, unless of course you've made other choices, just don't shout about it on an open forum, keep your head down and enjoy your good fortune, some of us have HAD to work till we drop, so it does rather rub to read of folk packing it in at 48, and no doubt not having to go on job seekers allowance ! ! I think if you check your facts you'll find that retirement is not 60 for most women now, it is increasing to match the same as men, hence why MY own retirement age will be 66 ... do you think it is fair that people now have to work past the age when others were able to retire to get even less benefits that you? Retirement does NOT mean working to 65, 'retirement' is when you are able to do it and if you are able to work towards being able to 'retire' much earlier. I certainly am not be sorry for being able to go when I am. I won't be getting any pension at all until my work one which I can start to draw, in a reduce form, from 60 and as I've been only working 29 hours for over 10 years, that will also have an impact - I've been paying into it since I was 18 so I think I've earned the reduced amount I'll get from it. At least it will mean that I won't have to apply for extra benefits etc from the government so at least that should make you happy. Whilst I don't include you in this, I must admit I get cheesed of about the number of 'whingers' who say they'd love to retire early but can't afford it ... no the can't, not when they spend vast amounts of money on clothes, hair cuts, gadgets, posh houses, going out all the time, holidays, etc, etc, etc and want it all ... we've never done this and never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 My personal view. This is not directed at Mel or anyone else for that matter. Something really bothers me in all this and it's comments along the lines of having "saved and saved/ done without/scrimped" etc Each to their - as ever but surely life is about just that - having and enjoying your life? Is living your life not about a balance? What's the point in having chicken when you really fancy a good steak? Or more likely rummaging round the whoops dept in Asda just so you can count up an extra £3.75 at the end of the week? The pleasure I derive from occasionally buying hand made shoes, and buying my Wife Radley handbags is just that - a pleasure. I do without though where necessary, I drive a 6 year old car which balances things out, (there's that word again, balance) We're working class people who enjoy life, not spending each day seeking savings. Bugger that for a lark, as I've said before, God laughs at planners. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I am quite sure that Mel was in no way bragging about the fact that she was leaving her job at the University, just sharing her news and I for one wish her well. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I will just say this in conclusion, if anyone can afford to retire at 50, and be able to have a comfortable living for God knows how many years after, someone is going to have to pay for that, and it is almost always the tax payer.No one can fund that length of time of retirement through scrimping and saving. I have a friend who took ill health retirement from Birmingham City council at 50, he's now 66 and already has matched the years he worked for the council in retirement. Still I'm sure the council tax payers of Birmingham are happy to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Blimey there's some Smalltownville thinkers on here. Not everyone starts work at 16 does their 5 or 6 days a week + overtime and collects the clock at 65 you know. It's entirely possible that some folk have had been blessed with a touch of vision and or wisdom to seek out opportunities that will hopefully bring around early retirement (or semi retirement in my case) There's a million ways to make a million a wealthy friend of ours once said and whilst we sure as heck aren't in that league, she was right, there's plenty of opportunities out there, property, shares, small business ventures. Ahh, you must be well off then in the first place to be to afford such "ventures", not so - just keeping your eyes on the prize. I've always believed it's not what you earn - it's what you do with it that matters. Just don't forget to have a life though. No point in having, "I never visited a Michelin starred restaurant" on your million pound gravestone.... Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-10-21 8:23 PMI will just say this in conclusion, if anyone can afford to retire at 50, and be able to have a comfortable living for God knows how many years after, someone is going to have to pay for that, and it is almost always the tax payer.No one can fund that length of time of retirement through scrimping and saving. I have a friend who took ill health retirement from Birmingham City council at 50, he's now 66 and already has matched the years he worked for the council in retirement. Still I'm sure the council tax payers of Birmingham are happy to pay.My own view is;-)....... we all make decisions as we wander along our 3 score years and 10, some work out some don't..............but I reckon I was lucky to work out that the filthy lucre is not worth chasing.............. maybe I'm an alien but I get a bigger buzz out of saving a fiver than earning a couple of hundred quid8-)............and its not so much about not spending, its more to do with making something out of nothing;-)...........a bit like life really(lol)............which is why I semi retired at 46:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 That probably explains why you've got a 21 year old vehicle ! ! :D :D :D but don't worry I worked up till I was 65 but could only run to a 2003 second hand one.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-10-21 8:54 PMThat probably explains why you've got a 21 year old vehicle ! ! :D :D :D Your dead right there 1 foot;-)..........I cherish that van above everything we own:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art338 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Just to chuck in a word or two on so called retirement, at well past 83 I still work and love it. Would I have taken a different line, NO. It all depends on one's view of the word 'retire', I will never 'retire', what for? I'm not lucky, its not a word I use, don't have much money and have little care if anyone nicks what I have got. But we do have a damned good time with what we have got !! "Money and possesions are not us" Perhaps my secret is that I make things, anything, call me an inventor, sculptor, artist, engineer etc: I would hate an office job, I tried it once in a large factory and couldn't get away from it fast enough. Mel's idea is great, she's making a decision, that's her choice and she should be praised for it for that's how life should be. MelB My post was originally to ask about jigsaws, I looked on the site but I would like to know what the inside of the bag is like? OK 1000 pieces, but how does one carry the half finished puzzle and all the not done pieces, presumably they are still THE SAME WAY UP when the bag is opened again, OR ARE THEY? or is it a fun thing and start all over again ??? art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 We all come in the world the same way, we all go out the same way, but in between what I really object to is other people effectively putting their hand in MY pocket so that they can retire "early" I say again it is 99.9% people in the public sector, when was the last time you saw say a copper over 50 for example by contrast next time your out and about look at the average truck driver who are very unlikely to be in the public sector and have to keep at it until they are 65 for example. Enjoy it, and count your good fortune but do you really have to shout it from the rooftops is all I say,end of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 art338 - 2011-10-21 9:16 PM MelB My post was originally to ask about jigsaws, I looked on the site but I would like to know what the inside of the bag is like? OK 1000 pieces, but how does one carry the half finished puzzle and all the not done pieces, presumably they are still THE SAME WAY UP when the bag is opened again, OR ARE THEY? or is it a fun thing and start all over again ??? art The bag has a 'padded' top so that when you put in the 2 removable boards (upon which you have put the unplaced pieces - you don't have to gather them up into a bag), the pressure of the padded top when it is closed and zipped up then holds everything together so you can carry it around - I wouldn't suggest swinging it around as that might dislodge some pieces, but in normal use it should keep everything where it was when you put it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Brown Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Hi My first comment is to Mel - good luck in your chosen route. I use that rather than retirement as retirement seems to bring the worst out in some. I think the first thing which needs to be said for all those who have responded to this post in both a positive and a negative way is to remember - you woke up this morning and were still breathing. Now on a more personal note, I am a retired 'copper' and draw my pension paid by the 'public'. Yes!! I paid a lot into my pension to get the rewards some of you seem to think I reap. Police pension is based on 15 years expectancy which for someone retiring at say age 50 or even 49 as I did means 64/65. I have to say that many of my ex fellows have turned toes up way before that magic 15 years. Some of you may not have had a choice but I came from a humble background and chose the police service for what it was and the early retirement feature. My father, like many of yours worked until he was 65. I wanted something better and at the tender age of 16 looked at what was available. We are talking the 60's here so most of you had the same choice. I also have to say that I felt unable to stop working at age 49 so I continued to be employed in a variety of jobs until I was 63. I now feel I have earned the right to enjoy my non working life to the full. I should call that non paid working life as I do not seem to have enough hours in the day to do what I feel I have to do. My bottom line is - enjoy life. Do what you think you want to do. Don't criticise people because they express enjoyment at looking forward to the big day of retirement, just be greatful that you are still breathing. A lot of people did not wake up this morning and that will continue ad infinitem. Arthur Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Okay, this is my last posting on this thread as I don't see why I really should have to explain myself, so here goes: 1footinthegrave - 2011-10-21 7:33 PM You just don't get it do you, good luck with your retirement plans, I'm just trying to say for some through whatever reason cannot make the same " choices" they have to make a living, week in, week out, more often than not earning just enough to get by until they get their metre state pension at 65. You need them, I need them, everybody needs them. We can't all have "choices" the world would grind to a halt if we did, think about that the next time your getting checked out in the supermarket, just as I said keep a low profile that you were able to have "choices " No, I didn’t get it ... from the way you’ve been posting, it wasn’t obvious, but I thank you for that. :-D Everyone has a choice, I have had to make decisions on what I do and everyone can chose, some may find it easier to do that others, but there is always a choice. I worked hard to get to where I am at work, no one gave it to me on a platter, I left school with very few qualifications so I continued my education by going to college 3 nights a week for many a year to 'improve' my skills, not sitting on my backside at home like some do. With no family money to fall back on or 'help' to get jobs, my experience has been on the whole that if you want to improve/change your life you have to put in a lot of hard graft to be able to do so. Unfortunately this doesn't pay off for some people, but for others it does. I would have loved to have had even the smallest of opportunities that a lot of people had, but it wasn’t the case, I didn’t have the option of going to study at University but you don’t hear my moaning about it. Some members of the forum have obviously had that opportunity and it has worked well for them, so they were able to get well paid jobs, but I certainly wouldn’t castigate them for that. Maybe I’ll need to get a job in the future, I hope our planning etc means I don’t, but who knows ... I certainly wouldn’t be adverse to doing pretty much any jobs I am capable of, be it shelf stacking, sweeping the streets etc, I’m not too proud to do any job and if I need the money then so long as I get paid then that’s fine. :-S 1footinthegrave - 2011-10-21 8:23 PM I will just say this in conclusion, if anyone can afford to retire at 50, and be able to have a comfortable living for God knows how many years after, someone is going to have to pay for that, and it is almost always the tax payer. No one can fund that length of time of retirement through scrimping and saving. The only thing we will get when we get to state pension age is the basic state pension, we have made sure we have paid into a pension pot so that we are NOT going to be reliant on a state pension on its own, or on claiming any additional benefits. We have saved and saved and saved, been careful with what we do with our money, have bought homes that need doing up and then when we've come to sell them years later have made a profit on them. We've done a lot of the work ourselves, rather than get others in, except when expertise was needed. We could have taken the easy route and not done this, but we chose to, so I get annoyed when people accuse me of having it easy ... anything but. We had horrendous problems with our first home and had no option but to do the work ourselves such as rewiring it (all checked by a qualified electrician afterwards) as we were totally skint (remember when the interest rates were around 14%+?) so the only way we could do it was to get second hand sockets from our friends houses who were being rewired by the council, otherwise I don't know what we'd have done. How many people have had to do that? I'm not saying we were special, far from it, but when you're faced with doing it yourself or not having any electricity at all, you just have to get on with it ... we were living in it at the time so I'm sure you can appreciate just how difficult it was and took 3 weeks just to get the wiring sorted. I won't bore you with anything else, but just take my word for it ... I ain't no slouch. :-) Martyn - Words of wisdom, :D and I'm sure over the years we have been too careful with our money at times, when you have been used to having to scrimp and save it is hard to then stop doing so, but we can't change the past now, and it is time for us to benefit, in a modest way, from that frugality. One of our greatest pleasures is just being out in the open with the dogs, pottering around in the countryside, on the beach etc, which, apart from a little fuel, doesn't cost an arm and a leg. We enjoy finding 'bargains' and ‘supporting’ our local charity shops, going to car boot sales etc ... the thought of spending goodness knows how much on a single handbag would send me into an apoplectic fit! 8-) I've already alluded to the fact that health issues are part of the reason I'm leaving, that goes for hubby too ... neither of us know how long we are going to be able to get around without difficulty but I suspect we'll be lucky if we have 10 years before we start to have some fairly major mobility issues, so waiting until we reach retirement age to gain our 'freedom' is a definite no-no. I ain't looking for sympathy either!!! :$ I can’t make you change your view on why I started this post originally, but I am not the sort to be a show off, of try to rub people’s noses in it, if anything I hope it shows others that if we can do it, they can too, there’s nothing special about us. *-) As for keeping a low profile, why? I’m very excited about this ‘new life’ I’m shortly going to start ... so why shouldn’t I say so? :-> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 sshortcircuit - 2011-10-21 7:06 PM........................................Where did that come from and to be blunt, what a load of drivel. Er, in part, from reading your drivel, which was the point. :-) As with us all, you, yourself, have more than some, less than others. From what you wrote, you seem resentful of those who have more. What of those who have less than you. Should they resent your wealth in the same way? I'm with the Noble Lord Martyn: "There's a million ways to make a million a wealthy friend of ours once said and whilst we sure as heck aren't in that league, she was right, there's plenty of opportunities out there, property, shares, small business ventures. Ahh, you must be well off then in the first place to be to afford such "ventures", not so - just keeping your eyes on the prize. I've always believed it's not what you earn - it's what you do with it that matters. Just don't forget to have a life though. We all have what we have. I say make the best of it, and worry less about whether the next guy has more. After all, he may also have hemorrhoids! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-10-21 9:37 PM We all come in the world the same way, we all go out the same way, but in between what I really object to is other people effectively putting their hand in MY pocket so that they can retire "early" I say again it is 99.9% people in the public sector, when was the last time you saw say a copper over 50 for example by contrast next time your out and about look at the average truck driver who are very unlikely to be in the public sector and have to keep at it until they are 65 for example. Enjoy it, and count your good fortune but do you really have to shout it from the rooftops is all I say,end of. Purely in the interests of balance, you understand. Early retirement is a peculiar disease of the public sector. It stems from our wise leaders granting public sector workers protection against dismissal. This was done many years ago, instead of paying them more at the time. Jam tomorrow, was the promise, not jam now. Our wise leaders have steadfastly shied away from altering those terms. Therefore, don't blame those who are offered early retirement on favourable terms and decide to accept - blame the prats who gave them that right and have maintained it. In an emergency, the last thing I'd want turning up to assist me is a 60+ year old copper in the same physical condition as many of the 60+ year old truck drivers I have seen. Not disrespect, fact! There is good reason why police and firemen in particular have employment contracts that allow them to retire early. Ultimately, it's about efficiency. I'm all in favour of folk not swanking their wealth - providing others don't seek to swank their poverty in retaliation. Owning motorhomes, even older ones, isn't a pauper's game, so some of the hard luck whinges seem more than a bit over-done to me. Besides all of which, it is quite possible to arrive at a far less critical interpretation of Mel's original post. Just that she was rather relieved and excited, and wanted to share her good news, not swank. It's a girl thing, you know! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Goodness me Brian where does that drivel come from. I am one of Jock Thamsons bairns with no pretentious about who I am or where I came from. I have no huge fortune or am I envious of those who do. I only made the point that it does appear that some sections of our community particularly in the public funded sector are able to get very advantageous offers that others do not. Our local council CEO is burnt out at 50 and gets a very generous retirement deal when the poor guy out in all weathers emptying the bins has no options but to work until he is 65. Where is the fairness in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Back to the original post Mel - jolly good luck to you - enjoy it!! :-D :-D Fill your days by living it, not listening to the whinges of this lot on here! :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 It was interesting to see that the public sector club, the CSMA, had a large stand at the NEC Motorhome and Caravan Show. Presumably a source of ideas on how to spend their 30 or 40 years of retirement ? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 We had some old friends come to stay a couple of weekends ago, I served with him on HMS Zulu:D.......he retired a year ago at 52 on a very nice warrant officers pension and walked straight back into his navy job as a civvy.........He always was a lucky b*******d, in fact his nick name was Lucky Len(lol) Do I regret not staying on and getting my pension?...........nope, I enjoyed my time in the mob and it served me well in later life......Being self employed is my natural element;-) The funny thing is I work for mainly wealthy/rich people now.......seems like their the only ones who can afford my prices8-).........I have to say they don't seem any happier than me, and many seem to be right miserable gits(lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemoss Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I suspect that what the assorted arguments on the last two pages show us is the disconnect between the index-linked public sector pensions (which every taxpayer contributes towards) and the private pensions that public sector workers do not contribute towards. I've been self-employed for more than 40 years, still working at 66 and intending to carry on doing so for as long as people give me work. That's my choice. Throughout that time I've contributed to a number of private pensions schemes, only to find that the annuity they buy now is less than half what it would have been in 1990. Things are getting even worse for people like me - a pension pot of £200,000, which takes an awful lot of building up, believe me - buys a pension of ~£12,000 a year with no increases, ever, for the rest of your life. So forgive me if I feel no sympathy for those public sector workers who are now threatening strike action for having their work pensions brought more into line with those of the rest of the population. I have no axe to grind with individuals here, or elsewhere, who have had better fortune with their pension arrangements than I have. I think the big picture here - the 'elephant in the room' - if you like, is simply that our pension system, both private and public, is frankly rubbish. And way, way too complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 sshortcircuit - 2011-10-22 1:48 AM Goodness me Brian where does that drivel come from. I am one of Jock Thamsons bairns with no pretentious about who I am or where I came from. I have no huge fortune or am I envious of those who do. I only made the point that it does appear that some sections of our community particularly in the public funded sector are able to get very advantageous offers that others do not. Our local council CEO is burnt out at 50 and gets a very generous retirement deal when the poor guy out in all weathers emptying the bins has no options but to work until he is 65. Where is the fairness in that? Football has a lot to answer for! Had to look the guy up, and assume it may be John Ross "Jock" Thomson you are referring to? Football of no interest whatever, I'm afraid. Still, having read the biog, I am at a loss to see his relevance to the subject in hand. My point, simply stated, is that life is not "fair". Of course some do better than others. That may be because they are highly gifted (which I would regard as fair), merely lucky (which is I guess less than fair), or just bloody-mindedly determined (which, on the whole, I am inclined to admire). However, what few of us ever come to know (why should we?), is what these folk do with their "winnings". Some may do well and waste the proceeds, while others may use them for the benefit of others. That is why I think it is vindictive to criticise those one thinks have done better than one's self, for their good fortune - because one knows no more of them than one's own mental image. For that reason, worrying over whether the, in your own words, Council CEO is burnt out at 50 while the guy who empties the bins has to go on to 65, seems to me a fool's errand. The CEO of your bank (or any number of other private institutions) will almost certainly retire early, rather less burnt out, with a vast stack more in terms of wealth, pension, and investments than the council CEO. If you think they accumulated their stacks at no cost to you, I think you should ask yourself where, exactly, you think it did come from. There are no free pensions, any more than there are free lunches. One way or another, we all cost each other money. It's just that some of the linkages are easier to spot than others. We all make critical choices when we are very young, and can have no idea where they will eventually lead. Given a different choice, or dealt a different hand, any one of us may have become either the CEO, or the dustman - or be dead. So, what on earth is the point of criticising people for where they have ended up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Again way off the mark and it is becoming tedious. Jock Thamsons bairn An expression used to describe a common person with no airs and graces. Unfortunately many see the public funded bodies as an easy ride and this is in no way being vindictive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 mikemoss - 2011-10-22 10:18 AM I suspect that what the assorted arguments on the last two pages show us is the disconnect between the index-linked public sector pensions (which every taxpayer contributes towards) and the private pensions that public sector workers do not contribute towards. Snip .................................................... I have no axe to grind with individuals here, or elsewhere, who have had better fortune with their pension arrangements than I have. I think the big picture here - the 'elephant in the room' - if you like, is simply that our pension system, both private and public, is frankly rubbish. And way, way too complicated. With the first statement I do not agree, with the second I do. I disagree with the first because we all contribute to each other's pensions, whether public or private. I'm not arguing about the size of the pot, or who takes which risk, or whether or not the scheme is contributory or non-contributory, but simply that the money that is paid to folk after they stop working, there being no money tree, has to come from somewhere. Public sector pensions are generally simple, and relatively transparent. Generally, those in work pay, through taxation, for those who are retired. This is also how the state pension is paid for. Private sector pensions are more complex, and more opaque. To pay the pension, a fund has first to be accumulated. To do this, the worker has to pay in, so needs higher pay to be able to afford the contributions. Who then bears the cost of that higher pay? Those who buy whatever goods or services the worker provides. But then, to be able to pay the pension, the fund must be invested for growth, and that growth must come from somewhere, generally from company profits. To generate those profits, the companies in which the funds invest must charge the consumers of their goods and services more than they otherwise need charge. But, we are all consumers (working or not, paying tax or not, rich or poor, directly or indirectly), of the goods and services provided by those workers, and those companies. So, yes all taxpayers (public sector workers as well as private sectors workers) contribute to the cost of state and public sector pensions through taxation but, everyone, whether employed or not, contributes, through increased prices, to the overall cost of private sector pensions. Truly, there is no such thing as a free lunch. In both cases we all contribute to our own, and each others, pensions. If we did not, we should have no pensions. We should perhaps spare a thought for those who are in this position, or at best have only a state pension on which to live. Having said that, I wholeheartedly agree that the rules surrounding what is, or is not, a pension fund, on how it may be converted into a pension, on when this must be done, on how much can be taken as a lump sum, and on how the pension can be taken, are vastly over-complicated and in urgent need of simplification and clarification. If we could all see, with the same clarity as with public sector pensions, who contributes what and who gets what, I think "pension envy" would diminish, and the whole debate over how we pay for our retirements would be the healthier for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 With respect Brian you are completely missing the point. If you are self employed, or in the private sector, with very few exceptions you have to work until 65 or thereabouts to have a cat in hell chance of any sort of reasonable private pension, so a working life of say some 50 years, as and many others HAVE to. Compare that with the public sector and cash is given out like confetti, people "retiring" at 48 or so, and more oftne than not on some flimsy "ill health" basis, then WE the tax payers funding their normally very generous index linked pensions, golden handshakes and the like, for God know how many years. I agree that life is not always fair, BUT does that make it right, or equitable, a system that funds people generously from the taxpayer, without the tax payer having a say in it. Our council tax has trebled in the last few years coupled with declining standards, WHY, to fund their pensions. So I say for the last time don't defend the morally indefensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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