Guest Rich Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Could anyone offer me some advice please I own a M/H based on the Fiat 2.0ltr JTD.Although I am quite happy with the performance a little extra would not go amiss, I have heard that this engine can be chipped to increase the BHP has anyone had this done if so at what cost, is it worth it, can it cause any damage to the engine or invalidate warranty & what is the increase in BHP Regards Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Will Redfearn, Wirral Motorhome Club Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Try Van Aaken 01344 777 553 email vanaaken@vanaaken.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RonB Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Rich It's more likely to cause damage to your insurance premium if you own up, but could become even more costly if you don't. Check first. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 1)Let your insurance company know, they may want more money. 2) It will climb hills better in top gear for longer. 3) Fuel consumption will only increase if you use the additional power, but not a lot. 4) Be sure that the clutch is suitable for the additional torque. (i.e. is the same clutch fitted with a bigger engine on another vehicle?) Are the brakes up to the increased speed you might be doing? 5) Are the tyres rated for this additional speed? 6) It is almost certain to invalidate any new vehicle warranty. 7) Most chip upgrades do so by eating into the emissions margin between that applied by the government on new vehicles and that required at MOT testing. So it might smoke a bit more! 8 ) should you have stiffer anti-roll bars fitted as your motor is now sportier? 8) Yes the engine will work harder. 9) Its your fun, your money and your risk! Have I said enough? Have I done any of this? Yes several years ago before chips were used, but not on the camper. It included anti-roll bars, a militiary spec clutch, new head, new fuel pump, new waste gate, electric fan but it goes like a train. Its done 90K miles since the mods without any problems other the learning curve re the clutch which I should have had fitted initially. So for me it was worth it. It accelerates out of the way a lot quicker so I deem it safer. But I am nuts! Others may see it differently! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek Uzzell Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 In terms of motorhome diesel-engine upgrading in the UK I think TB Turbo (www.turboboost.co.uk and advert in MMM) will have the most experience. I suggest you contact them for advice and prices. A 20% - 30% power increase is usually quoted as a result of 're-chipping', but I wouldn't want that amount of extra grunt for your motor without adding an intercooler to it too (which will increase the overall cost of the exercise and make it much more obvious that it's been 'tuned') Regarding your other points "is it worth it, can it cause any damage to the engine or invalidate warranty" 1. That's for you to decide - if I was happy with a motorhome's performance I'd leave it alone. 2. Yes - any increase in a motor's power output is bound to put additional stress on the components unless they are modified to match. Whether re-chipping WILL cause damage depends on how resilient the motor is to begin with. 3. You are talking about Fiat here - a company not renowned for sympathy to normal warranty claims (remember the gearbox saga!) let alone those resulting from unauthorised tuning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeteC Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 You can have the van CHIPPED & linked to a security site so that if stolen it can be tracked Look in the ads & make carfull enquiries Some only operate in this Country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panagah Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 i had my van chipped by jason at ecotune (website will reveal address) Performance is amazingly better. My insurance company were not interested in increasing the premium and wrote to me to say so. As for the damage to engine etc etc, do what i did read up on it. You will find that its scepticle people that suggest ngine damage whom probably do not understand the process. as for extra roll bars upgrading of brakes etc etc, its a mild car like driving experience you are going to acheive, merely getting the performance of a 2.3 which generaly has the same running gear as the 2-0, you are not in any way attempting to race the lemans 24 hour. You are going to gain an additional 15-25% extra torque, which will increase the ability of the van to pull up hill and release an additional few horses to pull you along quicker. It all depends on how you intend to drive it as regards fuel economy. If you intend on constantly using your right foot and taking advantage of the extra horses you will find yourself using more fuel. In general my mpg has not changed unless I hammer it. What you have to remember is the power to weight ratio. On a standard van with no laden weight to a fully laden van converted motorhome. My van passed its MOT with no problems and the emissions were fine. I could not do without my chip now, it makes motrohoming far more enjoyable, no longer do I struggle to overtake a lorry up hill, or have him undertaking me as I was trying to pass him. The difference is trully amazing. HOWEVER if your van is still under warranty, I would not undertake a chip. Doing so will deffinately invalidate any warranty and leave you high and dry should you have an engine component failure. my van was 3 years old when done. I also service my van myself including more regular oil and filter changes than of standard workshop manual. hope this helps paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 CClub insurance wanted a 25% inrease in premium, if I chipped a 2.8JTD. Still thinking about it. Could be useful on some of those long peage hills using cruise control. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skottle Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Hi, we added a piggy back ECU (most people refer to this as chipping on a diesel) to our car when it was 1 month old. The power increase was good and the torque increase exceptional. We achieve approximately 8mpg more. Our insurance was fine with this. Our motorhome is 2 months old and we shall be doing it to that after Christmas. They remove in a matter of minutes so warranty is not really a problem. There are often variants within the manufacturer of engine power on the same engines, no extra performance bits though. from experience I would recommend only to fit a digital self setting one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panagah Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 [QUOTE]skottle - 2007-11-02 6:36 PM Hi, we added a piggy back ECU (most people refer to this as chipping on a diesel) to our car when it was 1 month old. The power increase was good and the torque increase exceptional. We achieve approximately 8mpg more. Our insurance was fine with this. Our motorhome is 2 months old and we shall be doing it to that after Christmas. They remove in a matter of minutes so warranty is not really a problem. There are often variants within the manufacturer of engine power on the same engines, no extra performance bits though. from experience I would recommend only to fit a digital self setting one.[/QUOTE] Can you elaborate on that last sentence please? What I think people get confused about is the process of chipping. It is not required on a fiat to have a new "chip" fittted. What is done is a remap. Pure and simple. No need to replace a chip just reprogramme the one that is there. A chip replacement is more expensive because the companies that provide them work on a franchise basis and do not make the reprogramme available freely, insisting it comes within the chip. However reprogramming is just the same and safer because the ecu is not being disturbed. The piggy back system is essentialy the same thing. A plug in ECU which when you put your footdown adjust aspects of the engine ie turbo boost, fuel penatration. Therefore there is no diffence to having a good remap. Also on another note, my van is mapped to exactly the same spec that it would exported to less restrictive countries. Therefore there is no concern over running gear. However, if and it is a big if. I decided to race my van in some sort of motorhome grand prix, my van would be remapped to racing spec, this would be done to obtain maximum power output of the engine. Therefore everything from driveshafts, to handling would have to be matched. My van is merely Mapped to allow a more smoother, car like drive, releasing more horses and making better use of the fuel that is put in to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panagah Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 [QUOTE]skottle - 2007-11-02 6:36 PM Hi, we added a piggy back ECU (most people refer to this as chipping on a diesel) to our car when it was 1 month old. The power increase was good and the torque increase exceptional. We achieve approximately 8mpg more. Our insurance was fine with this. Our motorhome is 2 months old and we shall be doing it to that after Christmas. They remove in a matter of minutes so warranty is not really a problem. There are often variants within the manufacturer of engine power on the same engines, no extra performance bits though. from experience I would recommend only to fit a digital self setting one.[/QUOTE] Can you elaborate on that last sentence please? What I think people get confused about is the process of chipping. It is not required on a fiat to have a new "chip" fittted. What is done is a remap. Pure and simple. No need to replace a chip just reprogramme the one that is there. A chip replacement is more expensive because the companies that provide them work on a franchise basis and do not make the reprogramme available freely, insisting it comes within the chip. However reprogramming is just the same and safer because the ecu is not being disturbed. The piggy back system is essentialy the same thing. A plug in ECU which when you put your footdown adjust aspects of the engine ie turbo boost, fuel penatration. Therefore there is no diffence to having a good remap. Also on another note, my van is mapped to exactly the same spec that it would exported to less restrictive countries. Therefore there is no concern over running gear. However, if and it is a big if. I decided to race my van in some sort of motorhome grand prix, my van would be remapped to racing spec, this would be done to obtain maximum power output of the engine. Therefore everything from driveshafts, to handling would have to be matched. My van is merely Mapped to allow a more smoother, car like drive, releasing more horses and making better use of the fuel that is put in to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 It would be sensible for anyone contemplating taking this engine-power-enhancing route to check with an expert first (eg. TB Turbo). I remember reading (probably in MMM) that attempting to 're-map' certain Ford Transits could damage the ECU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 I had my Renault Master re-mapped by TB-TURBO in August, having used them some 7 years ago to re-tune (no ECU then) my previous one with amazing results. This time I looked at 'add-on' boxes, mainly because the Renault comes with a pan-European 3 year warranty and I didn't want to invalidate it, so I thought being able to unplug the tuning box was a good thing. However I went for TB-Turbo's re-tune for the following reasons: 1. The have recently installed a rolling road and give before and after Power and Torque versus speed (rpm) curves, so you know exactly what you are getting. At the Renault recommended 'Sweetspot' of about 2000 rpm, I have 21% more horses and 21% more twist. At the Renault recommended 'upchange' speed of 2300 rpm I'm on 18% more power and 27% more torque (which is exactly what you need as you move up to change up revs. 2. They also give you the 'Smokemeter' readings so you can check the emissions against whichever you should comply with (Euro 3 or Euro 4). 3. They will provide whatever mix of power, torque, emissions and fuel consumption (though they warn you this will go up if you make full, heavy-footed use of the extra power). 4. They re-tune the main ECU, storing the new results in the ECU memory. The add-on bexes do not, as I understand it, do this - they can only affect the fuel input, re-timing it and/or increasing the pressure. 5. So far, I'm very happy with the results - there is no extra smoke when starting the engine or accelerating when cold. Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 [QUOTE]tonyishuk - 2007-11-02 5:14 PM CClub insurance wanted a 25% inrease in premium, if I chipped a 2.8JTD. Still thinking about it. Could be useful on some of those long peage hills using cruise control. Rgds[/QUOTE] When my insurance came up for renewal I did the usual rounds of insurers for quotes. The Caravan Club i.e. Devitt wanted to load my insurance 100% increasing from their origional quote from £240 to £480 when I told them I had our turbo installation carried out by TB Turbo, phoning round others they all said that it made no difference as they work on two bands with or without turbo. I stayed with my origional insurer, Caravanwise (NIG) who clearly state on my docments that I have told them of the upgrade but the premium is the same as before. So I don't believe that the CC Devitt scheme is the most competative for modified vehicles. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 Bas Thanks for the info, food for thought come next renewal date. rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Insurance: I should have added that I spoke to Safeguard before the re-map and they want only written confirmation, and did not request any increase in premium. Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miami Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 [QUOTE]skottle - 2007-11-02 6:36 PM Hi, we added a piggy back ECU (most people refer to this as chipping on a diesel) to our car when it was 1 month old. The power increase was good and the torque increase exceptional. We achieve approximately 8mpg more. Our insurance was fine with this. Our motorhome is 2 months old and we shall be doing it to that after Christmas. They remove in a matter of minutes so warranty is not really a problem. There are often variants within the manufacturer of engine power on the same engines, no extra performance bits though. from experience I would recommend only to fit a digital self setting one.[/QUOTE] I agree. I wouldn't spend any money in having the existing ECU chipped. You can remove the self fitting one if any warranty probs and it is cheaper. Loads of people sell them. Took me 20 minutes to fit on my Renault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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