colin Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Just back from the Fiat dealer trying to get some issues resolved. They managed to bodge the sidedoor sensors so the 'door open' alarm doesn't keep sounding under braking *-) (I'll have a look at it myself!) One, of the outstanding issues is a sudden aparent increase in fuel consumption. Thay can find no fault codes that would indicate a problem, so we are at a bit of empass unless I leave it there and Fiat get involved (and they where not overly keen at that) , not something I wish to do at present with a few trips coming up. I'm wondering if anyone's had a problem with fuel consumption which doesn't show as a fault code(or loads of black smoke) 2011 2.3 120 engine in a L4 pvc The story so far is. Van has only a few thousand miles on clock, so I've not done a top up to top up check yet as it's still losening up. From the computer it has from day one shown low 30's(around 32/33) if on A/M roads and keeping to 60mph, high 20's(around 27/28) if pushing on at 70(indicated 75) and once again low 30's if using 'local' roads. A few hundred miles back I found myself needing fuel on motorway, as it was expensive I put £50 in and drove 100 miles into fairly strong winds at 70mph, this burnt up all the fuel @ 15mpg, I was a bit supprised! The next few miles where around Cornwall @ 25mpg, I didn't read too much into that. The journey home was nearly traffic free with a tail wind and doing no more than 65, this returned 27mpg, well below what I would expect, and the last few journies have been on local roads where I might expect 32/33 but am getting 26/27 so around 20% lower mpg. One thing that may be of note, it does seem to me that I have to 'push' the van harder to reach 70 than over ones I've driven, hard to discribe but at higher speeds underload it seems to have a 'flat' note to engine, previously, esp, with 120 2.2 Citreon I feel you have to reign it in to keep under limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Probably a daft question..but is it "actually" using more juice..or is it just that the trip computer thingy "indictaes" that it is?(...and therefore it's that,that is faulty.?.) ..and as for needing to "push" it more than others you've driven,well with only a few thousand on the clock it won't be anywhere "loosened up"... (..Both probably points you've already considered,though... :$ ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 pepe63 - 2011-10-04 2:29 PM Probably a daft question..but is it "actually" using more juice..or is it just that the trip computer thingy "indictaes" that it is?(...and therefore it's that,that is faulty.?.) ..and as for needing to "push" it more than others you've driven,well with only a few thousand on the clock it won't be anywhere "loosened up"... (..Both probably points you've already considered,though... :$ ) Yes it's possible trip computer is problem, but that shows as ok on check, and the £50 of fuel that went a 15mpg is about correct as it emptied the tank. I'm a bit unsure as to needing to 'push' it, I've clocked up a fair few miles on a high milelage campervan, and also on low and high millage plain panel vans, but not much on low millage (heavy laden) campervan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Hi Colin I started a similar thread about this time last year. Although ours M/H is a Low Profile on the Peugeot base. We travelled from home to Southampton - trip meter showed 30mpg, actual was 27.53 (brim to brim check) Returning home I thought I would try the "Premium" Diesel for comparison. Same journey, same journey time.( to within 5 minutes) The only differing factor was the tailwind going South & headwind coming back up North. Returning home the trip meter showed 26mpg, actual was 23.50 (again brim to brim) As the "premium" fuels are reputed to improve mpg, I was somewhat dissappointed. So I guess if I had used standard Diesel I would have been close to 20mpg. I have not encountered this differential before or since & now with 7k miles on the M/H I am getting minimum 26mpg, max 31mpg (actual) The trip meter reset each fill) is consistantly OTT reading 30 upto 36mpg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Well I've sat down and worked out some rough figures, over the last 500 miles I've averaged 25mpg, on the previous 500 miles I averaged 32mpg, around 20% drop, as the engine should be loosening up this is reverse of what would be expected. BTW van was taken in with a couple of things to be looked at, non showed up on plug in check, but they acepted problem with sld open alarm as common problem, this should have been solved by adjusting lock, but the hex screws where damaged and they could not adjust them so packed out the sensor, aparently a common 'bodge', I was informed by manager that as no problems showed on plugin they should be charging me but would waive charges even though they would not get anything from Fiat. I'm in two minds as to if I use this dealer again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Hang on Colin, if he does work for free I think I would use him again :-D Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broc Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 A bit obvious, but have you/dealer checked that the brakes are not binding slightly? the extra drag could make the vehicle a bit more sluggish & use more fuel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 "Common rail " diesel engines of that type are very sophisticated bits of engineering. The entire operation of the engine is under computer control, the information for the onboard computer(s) is fed back by an array of sensors which in themselves are subject to problems. The diagnostic computer should show any faults or "events" that will affect the engine. The blunt fact is that this is not always the case. To many times owners are told " There are no fault codes stored so there is nothing wrong". It is as if mechanics have been turned into computer geeks overnight and if the computer says it's OK then that's it. The binding brakes mentioned is a good example, the computer can't see that can it? Nor can it see underinflated tyres, overloaded vehicle, wrong engine oil, transmission drag and so on. If it was my vehicle I would make some physical and visual checks, for instance, are there any leaks on or around the pump or injectors? Even a very small leak makes a significant difference to fuel consumption. Dribbling injector(s) can waste a lot of fuel, and with the modern engines can be damaging to pistons etc. The modern injectors are high tech, very sensitive to dirt or debris and cost a fortune £200 - £300 EACH! Don't think that because your engine is low mileage this can't happen because it can, sometimes low mileage can be a factor in such problems. Again, if it was my vehicle I would make some checks as above and if nothing obvious is found I would take it for an "Italian Tune Up" this involves full throttle, high revs in all gears with a fully warmed up engine for at least 30 -40 miles. Then check again. If it helps, I have never been able to get anywhere near the MPG that the manufacturers claim on any of the many vehicles I have owned. That said, your does seem a bit on the thirsty side. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Colin, I have used 2.3 Ducato panel vans extensively and rarely see better than 27 or 28 mpg on the trip computer and that often calculates at a 'real' 25mpg. Nobody that runs our vans has reported better than 30mpg whether loaded or unloaded so I would expect a fully loaded vehicle cruising at 75mph and working reasonably hard off the motorway to return no more than 25mpg. It may get better after 15-20,000 miles but then again it might not. Leaking injectors will cause starting problems on this vehicle, and you will know about it. A fuel leak of any kind will also be highly noticeable. For the record our experience of the 3.0 engine suggests that it does 1 or 2mpg less than the 2.3 depending on what kind of work it is doing and interestingly enough (according to Peugeot's website) the 3.0 Fiat engine uses 10% less fuel (particularly in urban tests) than the PSA/Ford 2.2 engine now that they have all gone to Euro5!! More is less! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 I'll be checking brakes etc when I get a 'round tuit'. Along with a torch test to see if rear bottom corner of sld is closing correctly. One consideration was if I'd got a duf lot of fuel, have just again refilled tank from near empty so any of that fuel will be well diluted by now, so I'll see how that goes. Maybe a check of fuel filter to consider. Remembered that a couple of months back had a similiar journey at 70/75mph into very strong head winds and it showed as 25mpg, much better than the 15mpg of other week. The 'ultimate' fuel consumption I'm not too concerned about, as we all drive differently and vans are different, but the sudden drop does make me scratch my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Our Burstner is low profile, 2007 model,and I have never thought the consuption particularly good. It has now done around 27k miles, and throughout the 4 yeasr the computer read out avereage has varied little. What I do find however, is that I generally get better figues in france, and a recent run back up mostly on N roads, and non-peage it got up to 25.1 mpg, but as soon as back in good old England, that dropped back to 24.5......I think this is more to do with the type and quality of roads, as well as possibly the wind effect. When I checked full to full a while back, it worked out to around 26mpg. The van drives so much better in France ( and I don't think thats just that I'm more relaxed!!), but it also drives much more quietly with much less road noise, a nd again I suspect this is due to the construction of the road surfaces there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 Thought I would give an end of year update. Since first posting the actual mpg has gradualy returned to previous figures, each refueling seemed to improve things. The onboard computer on the otherhand seemed to be stuck on 27.1mpg, and no matter how I drove would always show same :-S BUT, today I was cruising with the trucks at 60mph the 'distance' (? ) mpg showed at 27.1, but as I cycled trou readings I noticed the 'instant' mpg was in low 40s(slight downhill section) so I decided to reset trip on the move and compare the two different mpg's, (^) once it sorted itself out the 'distance' mpg was showing high 30's roughly inline with 'instant' mpg. The remainder of outward trip came in at 36mpg with tail wind, return trip into a lessening headwind came in at 32mpg an average of 34mpg and calculating the actuals I get the same figure, which is pretty much a record for me driving any sort of van. I'm still not 100% sure if it was a dodgey lot of fuel, or the engine management had an hiccup, but it's looking fine at moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclops2 Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I hope I am not hijacking this thread but I have a question for the experts. Presumably the X250 being spoken about are euro5 compliant and have Diesel Particulate filters (DPF) I have a wee Fiat 500 1.3 multijet diesel engine with a DPF. When the filter needs cleaning, the ECU increases the fuel into the engine to burn off the particulates. The fuel consumption goes down drastically. The average consumption goes from the mid 60's to the mid 30's. At above 2000 revs this can take about ten minutes. Does the same thing happen on the bigger fiat engines? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 Mine is euro4, the euro5's have been out around 6 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 There is a supplement to the x250 hanbook dated 2009 that tells of some x250 with this DPF system of regeneration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 Reading the manual, my engine has got a DPF, but the extra fuel burn when it first happened and the distance covered until returning to 'normal' would seem to be excessive for it to be this going throu a cleaning cycle, 10mins at double the fuel burn I can live with but 1 1/2 hours at double plus 1000+ miles to settle down 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Off topic I know, but sounds like yet another reason to go back to horse and carts, I really despair of all these technological advances, now can I shoehorn an old Perkins in an X250 base ! :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJP Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 The trip computer on our old van was consistently over stating the MPG by 20%. The new van is not as bad at 5% over optimistic. I had similar problems with a substantial reduction in fuel consumption. the dealer guessed it might have been the EGR valve sticking. The replacement cost was £500 NOT under warranty and NO refund if NOT found to be the problem. My consumption dropped from 22.1 on trip 19.8 actual to under 18mpg actual. Never did find the problem after having to replace the clutch at £1000 NOT under warranty and then having to replace the alternator £600 I did not want to spend another £500+ to try and solve the problem. My cure? Sell the van! It was just over 21/2 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.