Suda Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Just back from very enjoyable 6 weeks in France but only just managed on our 2 orange gas bottles, 6kg each I think. We stopped using fridge freezer except on hook up and whilst driving. Please can anyone advise us on the best way to carry gas in France and Europe generally.Or is there a way of adapting for French bottles which are so readily available at supermarkets.Kept a blue Camping Gaz bottle and a burner for emergencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugga Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Look into fitting a Gas Low System and see if its for you, that way you need never worry about bottles and regulators again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Get a French bottle and you are usually given a free regulator with it if not they are readily available and just fit it in your van, Simples, Gas Low is a good system but will cost you lots of money and will take a long time to break even [cost ] depending on your gas usage.You can fit a GAZ bottle to you system 907? with the correct regulator too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 The answer is most likely yes, but will depend on the type of regulator you have on your 'van. If you have a bottle mounted regulator, it is "simply" a matter of substituting a local regulator specific to the type of bottle that you intend to use (which should also be available locally in France, often, but not always, at the same place as you buy the bottle). Patently, you will need to ensure a gas-tight seal between the regulator and the hose, which is normally achieved (at least under these circumstances) by a tightened jubilee clip. If, as is more likely, you have the newer, bulkhead mounted regulator, with a high pressure hose to the bottle, then substituting the bottle to regulator hose for one which has a local "end-fitment" specific to the bottle type will perform the trick. It is less likely that you will find such items at all bottle stockists, but they should be obtainable in a French Caravan/Motorhome dealer. (the regulator in this case is a European standard item, the connecting hoses are "local"). It is also possible in the latter case (of a bulkhead regulator) to be prepared before you enter France, as long as you understand which connection is on the bottles you will use. The following page: http://www.gaslow.co.uk/pages/products/list_1.htm ....gives an example of what is available - If I wanted to be prepared before-hand I would buy the appropriate length of 21.8 hose (without a bottle-end connector), a propane easy-fit connector, and (scroll down) the appropriate French adaptor to substitute for my desired French bottle. The hose would stay in place, and the connector/adapter at the bottle-end changed as appropriate. (It is worthwhile noting that there is a camping-gaz adapter which would also allow you to use this bottle, though it is an expensive way of buying gas. The same adapter can be used between the bottle and the regulator with a butane bottle-mounted adapter if you don't have a bulkhead regulator - I used to use this system as a continental standby years ago). If, by chance you have a Truma Secumotion system and bulkhead regulator (allowing in-motion use of the gas). things get a bit more complicated. For this you would need the appropriate French-ended Secumotion high-pressure hose, a somewhat more expensive and difficult to source option (and probably best sourced at a French Caravan/Motorcaravan dealer). HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 As Robinhood advises, in principle it's straightforward to adapt your motorhome's present gas system to handle different 'nationalities' of gas bottle. You start out by obtaining a 21.8LH 'pigtail' (ie. the flexible hose that connects the gas-bottle to the bulkhead-mounted regulator). This hose allows connection to a traditional UK Calor 4.5kg BUTANE bottle, but it also allows direct connection to French bottles (butane and propane) with the French traditional screw-type connection-fitting. Once you have the 21.8LH flexible hose, then you can add suitable adapters to it to permit connection to other bottles. There's advice about this in the Gaslow brochure http://www.gaslow.co.uk/pdf/Gaslow-2011-brochure.pdf and various adapters are shown on Page 8. If you wanted to continue to use your present UK propane cylinders and just have the option to switch to French bottles if you began to run out of gas, then you'd need a 21.8LH flexible hose + an EasyFit Adapter (01-1674) for the UK bottles, and then just remove that adapter to connect the hose to the French bottles. It does need saying that the French screw-type connection-fitting is used on their traditional large 13kg-capacity steel bottlles, but this MAY not be the case for the slightly smaller-capacity steel bottles (normally holding butane I think) that have begun to be marketed at French supermarkets. Quite a few non-13kg French bottles - ELFI, MALICE, TWINY, LE CUBE, CALYPSO, VISEO - use a clip-on connector so, if you wanted to connect to one of those, you'd need to add a suitable adapter to your 21.8H hose (see top of Gaslow brochure Page 8). My own feeling is that, if you want to go for a smallish light French cylinder, opt for the Butagaz "LE CUBE" http://www.butagaz.fr/solutions-butagaz/particuliers/cube-butane.aspx as these containers are very widely available throughout France. To connect to a LE CUBE bottle you'd need Gaslow's 27mm clip-on adapter (1673-T). I believe you own a 2008 Burstner Delfin, so I would have thought you have the opportunity to carry larger-capacity UK bottles than your present two 6kg ones. I've looked at your July motorhome-weight-related thread and I'm guessing that man-handling (or woman-handling) big heavy steel bottles might be undesirable for you but, if you are only going to be abroad for 6 weeks or so and have (just) managed with 12kg (2 x 6kg) of UK gas, then swapping to 2 x 13kg-capacity bottles (or even 1 x 13kg + 1 x 6kg) should be more than adequate for such trips. (Probably the most flexible approach would be to convert to a gas system that includes a refillable gas container that can be topped up at 'autogas' outlets. Whether this would be the 'best' way forward for you would depend really on how you plan to use your motorhome in future.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 On our last trip got talking to another guy who had bought a French bottle in the south of France when his calor run out, only to find it impossible to find a replacement for it further north. He was told however that the grey/blue, or is it the blue/grey bottles are available all over France, perhaps someone can confirm on here. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 A possibly simpler solution: Fit an external BBQ point and carry a piece of hose and Jubilee clips. That way, you can fit any bottle (outside the van) as long as you have the appropriate regulator. This should work in any European country. A friend who winters in Spain found this to be by far the easiest option as the nearest Autogas supplier was many miles away. The cost of bottled gas is much closer (or can be cheaper) to the Autogas price in some countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 That's a very good and simple solution, just need to think where to stow a quite heavy bottle on the move, I guess the BB point could even be in the gas bottle locker, mmmmm, I too have thought about the Gaslow option, but on our last trip and favouring the more rural areas of France I did not come across many LPG pumps, but always somewhere that stocked bottle gas, if anyone can answer the question of the most available bottle in France that would be a big help, again I was told grey/blue, can anyone confirm please. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elamessa Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-10-11 12:20 PM On our last trip got talking to another guy who had bought a French bottle in the south of France when his calor run out, only to find it impossible to find a replacement for it further north. He was told however that the grey/blue, or is it the blue/grey bottles are available all over France, perhaps someone can confirm on here.. I can confirm that the blue/grey bottles belong to the Butagaz company, you can also get bottles from Antargaz, Primagaz, Totalgaz which are all sold at many hundreds of outlets all over France including all main supermarkets. Intermarché, Le Clerc and Carrefour all have their own brand bottles but can only be exchanged at one of those said supermarkets. HTH Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Many thanks Steve ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Robinhood - 2011-10-11 8:50 AM If, by chance you have a Truma Secumotion system and bulkhead regulator (allowing in-motion use of the gas). things get a bit more complicated. For this you would need the appropriate French-ended Secumotion high-pressure hose, a somewhat more expensive and difficult to source option (and probably best sourced at a French Caravan/Motorcaravan dealer). HTHWe do have the secumotion set up (although i am more than inclined to turn the gas off when we move off) and I was considering a single Gaslow refillable with a manual changeover to a 2nd pigtail with suitable adaptors for (mainly) Spain as we should be able to source Autogas in Fance and the UK. I'm guessing we either need a 2nd secumotion pigtail (for local bottles via adaptors) or an ordinary hose if I dont use the secumotion in transit. Although the locker is small, I see a 6kg refillable combined with local bottles (where no pumped LPG is available) as a reasonable compromise. Any flaws in this logic? Thanks Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 If you're going to go to the trouble of putting in a 6kg refillable, you might as well go for the 13kg one if it will fit as it doesn't cost much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 If you've got a coachbuilt why not do the obvious and fit 13Kg bottles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 bolero boy - 2011-10-11 6:40 PM We do have the secumotion set up (although i am more than inclined to turn the gas off when we move off) and I was considering a single Gaslow refillable with a manual changeover to a 2nd pigtail with suitable adaptors for (mainly) Spain as we should be able to source Autogas in Fance and the UK. I'm guessing we either need a 2nd secumotion pigtail (for local bottles via adaptors) or an ordinary hose if I dont use the secumotion in transit. Although the locker is small, I see a 6kg refillable combined with local bottles (where no pumped LPG is available) as a reasonable compromise. Any flaws in this logic? Thanks Chris. I believe the refillable Gaslow bottle outlet connector is the same as that of a UK Calor 4.5kg butane bottle (and of a 13kg steel French bottle), so (if you wanted to maintain your SecuMotion system's use-heater-while-driving 'legality') you'd need a SecuMotion pigtail with a 21.8LH end fitting. This would be Part No. 50410-03 on Page 5 of the following catalogue. http://www.truma.com/downloadcenter/truma_produktkatalog_lkw_englisch.pdf The Gaslow brochure I provided a link to earlier in this thread contains a wealth of information about gas-system modifications and I note that there's a (propane) manual changeover device you might use. You say that your Bolero's gas-looker is small (which I take to mean that it can't hold 13kg Calor bottles), so you may need to be research whether or not it could hold Spanish bottles. Gaslow is not the only option for refillable bottles. See http://www.gasit.co.uk/cubecart/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=13 It's possible that, if your Bolero can't store large-capacity UK bottles, neither the 6kg nor 11kg Alugas bottles would be suitable, but the red 6kg (12 ltr) red bottle probably would. This has a higher specification canister than the equivalent Gaslow bottle. There's also the Safefill bottle http://www.safefill.co.uk/ that holds about 8.6kg of gas and (being translucent) needs no contents-gauge. The downsides are that it needs to be disconnected from the leisure-vehicle's gas system to be refilled and, because it has an integrated UK-standard bayonet connector for refilling, would need a couple of adapters for use in France/Spain. The upsides are that the Safefill bottle is light and, because it's not 'fixed' in the leisure-vehicle, could be easily removed for use with barbecues, etc. However, given the Safefill bottle's asking-price, I'd probably opt instead for the 6kg red bottle I mentioned above and use on an-bottle adapter for refilling it rather than install a remote filling-point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I know this has been done to death before, but the fly in the ointment seems to be that at LPG at petrol stations in France, and certainly in the UK some get nervous or refuse people filling bottles, seems from talking to others that the outside fixed filling point makes them less likely to create a problem, just thought for the benefit of the OP I'd put that in the mix in case he's not aware of that issue. Under-slung gas tanks are another option, but INSIST on stainless, or galvanised straps, I know someone who had one fitted and the front strap rusted through in less than three years almost leading to a catastrophic accident when the front of the tank dropped on to the road whilst on the move ! http://www.conrad-anderson.co.uk/power/gas-tanks/underslung_propane_gas_tanks.htm Also for those with deep pockets there's always the option of a diesel hob / oven, and water/space heater. The fridge would run for a very long time if that was then only gas appliance. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-10-12 10:44 AM ... Also for those with deep pockets there's always the option of a diesel hob / oven, and water/space heater. The fridge would run for a very long time if that was then only gas appliance. ;-) If you opted for a diesel-fuelled hob and water/space heater, then the logical next step would be to choose a compressor fridge - then you could avoid carrying LPG altogether. I'm not aware of a diesel-fuelled oven ever being installed in a motorhome, though GOOGLE reveals that they are employed in boats. The following 2009 discussion suggests that they have their pros and cons: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f91/cooking-on-diesel-stove-oven-28046.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Don't know of any from the overlanding side either. Nearly everyone favours the compressor fridge and diesel heater route, leaving just the hob /grill / oven (if fitted at all) to LPG power. 1 x 13Kg bottle lasts an average (careful) full-timer months if just used for cooking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Just a quick update, my locker is a fraction too small for a large plus small bottle, hence my suggestion around 2 small ones. If I were not going to Spain (scarce autogas) I would have a large single refillable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 In which case your 1 x refillable + 1 x locally sourced suggestion is spot on - with, naturally, the correct pig-tail(s) / adapter(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickt Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 If going to Spain make sure you have the new euro adaptor , i came across this when filling up this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Derek. Murvi have fitted and listed in 2008 as an option a two burner diesel ceramic hob but not cheap at £800.I recollect that like old electric rings it took some time to heat up and cool down and that used with a compressor fridge and diesel heating and hot water it was heavy on the batteries. I do not know if they have fitted an oven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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