Improve your fuel consumption and engine noise

[Mickydripin]

Hi I have been reading a post on here about fuel consumption and noise on the X250 I did not want to hijack that post so I thought I would put my thoughts on this subject.

I had my Carioca on the x250 chassis in March this year and on my first outing the fuel consumption was very poor ( I know I can not expect much until it is run in) and I thought that it was a bit noisey.

I have been using an additive in my car for some time now in the engine, gearbox,radiator,rear axle diff and power stearing and it is called " ZX1 extralube" and it made a great differance

With using it in my car I thought that I would try it in my motorhome and what a differance it made the fuel consumption improved and the engine sounded 100% better and smoother.

I put some in with the engine oil and when I filled up with deisel I put some in the tank and some went in the radiator, I have been very happy with it the fuel consumption improved and the noise level reduced and the van runs very smooth now and is a dream to drive.

It costs about £18 and has very good instructions on how to use it I got mine from Halfords if you want to look up on the net about it there web site is www.team-zx1.com.

They say that it coats all the metal parts and puts a hard wearing substrate film on them that should protect our motorhomes during the long layups that some people do in the winter.

I am nothing to do with the company I am just a long term user of the product and I can conferm that it is well worth it.

Dont beleve me give it a try yourself and let me know what you think.

[art338]

An engines working surfaces will glaze over as they work, (just like any smooth road surface due to use) you are simply advancing that process with your additive, probably a graphite compound to give the user that 'advanced age feeling'.

 

After a while I doubt it will make any difference and you're then throwing money away, but of course you are then 'hooked' into being convinced that its your additive that is the magic ingredient and you continue to buy more when the job is already completed many miles ago.

 

That's advertising !

 

art

[casey]

Hi Mickydripin,

I too am aconvert of ZX1, ever since demonstrated on QVC years ago.

Use it in the car and motorhome.

The demonstration showed how metal parts are protected even if you had

an oil pump failure, protection i doubt would happen naturaly.

For £18 you can`t go wrong.

casey.

[onecal]

Hi guys,,,,be careful with the snake oil guys,,,,,sometimes can do harm,,,,,,

Regards,

Brendan

[Mickydripin]

Sorry but I can not put your comments in full art338 and onecal as I do not know how but I will reply. thanks for your replys I expected to have my head twisted off and a lot of comments on saying that I am wasting my money

Have you tried ZX1 I know some of the stuff on the market that claims to do miracles with your car is rubbish as I have tried them.

I am no engineer and I have never claimed to be one but.........

I have a Volvo car that has had ZX1 in it for most all of its life it has a service every year and after each service I put the recomended amount of ZX1 in the engine oil and replenish other parts of the vehicle every 25000 miles

the car is thirteen years old next May and the oil in the engine is so clear that I need glasses to see it, it is a 1.9 diesel and starts first time every time I never put fancy oils in it and it has never failed an MOT and has the original exhaust and it still has its original power AND it does about 45 to 50 MPG AND runs like a new one.

I know that is a lot of ANDs but I think that it is no coincidence that the ZX1 MAY be doing my car some good.

You carry on being disbelievers but Myself and Casy and possibly a lot of other people know we are on to a good thing.

 

Mike.

[Guest peter]

So are Halfords by the looks of it. Why would you need any additive in an X250 which is supposed to have only fully synthetic oil in it. If this gunge was any good the oil companies would include it in their formulations. Also how do you know this stuff is not damaging your catalytic converter. In my opinion you are deluding yourself, as modern oils contain all the additives the engine requires, and you could actually do harm by the bores becoming glazed by the additive and the engine not bedding in properly, with the possible consequence being overheating. Not to mention maybe affecting the engine warranty.

But it's your money and that's what you feel makes your vehicles run better then carry on using it.

[francisgraham]

Now here's a question? If this stuff is so good, then why hasn't one of the big petrol suppliers such as BP, bought the rights to it?

This would presumably make their fuel far superior to their rivals' and they'd clean up?

And the makers of this snake oil would also clean up because, instead of selling relatively tiny amounts for anyone daft enough to fall for their sales patter, they'd be selling millions of gallons of it through BP or whichever firm bought the rights to it!

People think it works because they want it to work in order to justify their own choice. No one likes to think that they made a bad decision or been sold a pup! The human psyche is a wonderful thing!

If it is really such wonderful stuff where are the analytical results, where is the empirical evidence? There isn't any!

You'd be far better off changing your oil and oil filter more often than falling for this rubbish. Then again, you could always buy one of those miraculous magnetic rings that clip around your fuel pipe and immediately give you 15% better mpg! I wonder why a car manufacturer hasn't bought the rights to those as well, just think what a sales advantage it would give them! 

[Dave Newell]

Not to argue with what you say Micky but I have a 12 year old focus 1.8 diesel that's never had any additives to the best of my knowledge (came with full service history and lots of receipts, no mention of additives anywhere) and it still pulls like a train at 160,000 miles and it has its original exhaust and it does 40mpg knocking about, 52mpg at 75mph cruising. Just adding a little perspective. I'm inclined to agree with Peter, if these additives really work that well the big manufacturers would be using them.

 

D.

[Derek Uzzell]

There have been plenty of ranges of 'magic' additives and two - Slick-50 and Molyslip - have been marketed for many years. I used to use Molyslip products in my Mk 1 Golf GTIs back in the 1980s and there's no doubt that the gearbox slickness was improved. However, received wisdom was that anti-friction additives should be avoided until the vehicle had a reasonable mileage under its belt to allow metal surfaces to bed-in properly for optimum oil-film retention.

 

If you really want to get into oil-related stuff, try

 

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

[euroserv]

Hello all,

 

I would like to add only that the current oil specification for Fiat X250 vehicles is 5W30 Selenia WR which is a semi-synthetic. Previously (up to a year ago) it was 5W40 and this was also semi-syn.

 

You would be well advised to still opt for the 5W40 oil since this exceeds the later spec and is widely available cheaper than 5W30 oil.

 

We have been using Gulf 5W40 fully synthetic oil for 4 years and our vans have covered up to 275,000 miles with no engine wear and no oil leaks at all. This has to be better!

 

We have been changing our oil every 12,500 miles and this could well be contributing to the longevity of the engines but on 2011 vehicles we are extending this to 25,000 miles which is still less than Fiat's recommendations of 28,000 miles. Good quality oil from a reputable brand is the key.

 

Do not use fully synthetic oil in earlier (pre X250) engines as this does often result in oil leaks and these vehicles are far happier on 10W40 semi-synthetic.

 

 

Surely any fuel economy benefit (perceived if not actual) gained by the use of an additive is negated by the cost of the additive? Don't you pay enough for fuel already?

 

Nick

[crinklystarfish]

When I was messing about with cars I used Slick50 in a 3.5 litre Rover V-8 powered HB Viva. It was obscenely fast and sounded great; neither of which was down to the additive.

[Mickydripin]

Well thanks for all your points on this subject but if it was going to do any damage to my car it would have done it by now as I have used it for almost a decade.

There are people on this site that have answered my post that are much more experianced than me in the field of mechanics but none of you have any proof that it does not work or it has caused any damage. they would not sell it fo long if it did.

from what you say you have not tried it and are making assumptions I think that I will follow what I have been doing for the last ten years.

No offence but If there was just one of you that said I will try it just to prove me wrong rather than just Knocking or dissmissing it then I would listen.

Look at the ZX1 oil reviews on the net and then tell me it does not do what it says on the bottle.

 

Mike.

[Brambles]

As far as I know this product uses chlorinated paraffins. This is 1930's technology and was first used in engines to combat friction and wear. It was the ony technology available at the time for high pressure oils. It worked, but was rapidly withdrawn as an oil additive because of the effects on bronze and copper components in the engines or gearboxes. Chlorinated paraffins also break down rapidly at high temperatures so is a not a long term solution and so oils had to be changed frequently.

 

Technology has moved on and we now have much better additives for oils available to combat wear and friction, such has zinc compounds and synthetically produced base oils. Incidently Chlorinated paraffins are used in engineering cutting oils as it helps prevent tool wear and produces a better finish to the cut metal.

 

Basically it will not harm your engine with modern oils because modern oils have chemistry to combat the effects of corrosive compounds in the oil an ability to lock up contaminates or break them down using detergents. It will not add any enhancement to modern oils because they already have modern day equivalents such as synthetic base oils with high shear, high flm strength and long lasting characteristics. In other words you are wasting your money and is like adding a small amount of dirt to your washing up water before you start washing the dishes. The fairy liquid does its job and your glass remains smear free despite the dirt you added but you have used up some of the ability of the fairy liquid to keep doing its job for 6 times as many as any other dish detergent or whatever it is they claim. Why do this to your engine oil and us up its reserves.

 

Another problem is modern oils use various chemistries and different brands use differing technology additives they have developed to achieve the same function. Whilst they can generally be safety mixed you should not do so as it may affect the performance of the oil, or at least can have an effect if additives are not compatible. There is no way of knowing what effect the addition of Chlorinated Paraffins will have on each and every oil available. So for the layman the best option is to stick to a reputable well known brand and proven oil. As Eddie mentioned in his post re oils such as Gulf. There are many others such as Shell, Texaco Chevron (Havoline), Total, BP, and specialist oil blenders such as Millers oils.

 

Oil companies do keep a watch on all these additives, and some technologies used in additives are indeed taken on by oil companies and used. Molyslip is one such example where many oil companies now add molybdenum disulfide to their oils.

 

Eddie has also mentioned using Fully synthetic oil in older Ducato engines causes oil leaks. Now who would have expected this to happen, and maybe it is a characteristic of Gulf fully synthetic or maybe not. The point is unexpected effects sometimes happen with one engine and not another. You have a lot of money invested in your extremely advanced engineered engine and to put in something you know very little about is sheer stupidity. You are fixing a problem which does not exist.

People buying these products have cognitive dissonance having spent money on an additive and want to believe it works and so it does, and so they also belive tyhe ngine is smoother, quieter and so on, because the fear of not adding it may result in their engine not lasting so long, but at the same time know full well it probably does not work and may do harm. Equally those who do not use additives believe they are a waste of money and basically resort to justifying non use by referring to them as snake oil and marketing hype. Who is correct. Well all I can do is refer to what I have mentioned above as the strongest argument yet to justify not using, and suggest those recommending their use are really looking for others to back up their decision to use.

 

What I can also add is the majority of 'proof' uses the ball or cylinder pressure test. Basically pressing a piece of steel against a rotating drum with increasing force and measuring the resulting wear. Whilst this is a measure of the oil film stength characterstics it is totally unapplicable as the only test for an oil for use in engines. Should you as a result use it in your delicate mechanical watch to prevent wear on the pinions? One additive at least used to market straight high grade engine oil as an additive but made claims of wild proportions. It was one of the most successully marketed oil additives and I believe still is. It will NOT harm your engine, but equally it will not do anything extra as all it is is high quality base oil but millions of people claim it really does work, makes engine quieter, better mpg, etc etc. All sadly I am afraid in the minds of the user who wants to believe.

 

I mentioned ZX1 used chlorinated parafins. I suspect it may just be high quality base oils with just a very small amount of CPs which when diluted in the engine really have no effect worth worrying about whatsoever, but nobody really knows exept the manufacture and if anyone thinks I am going to be stupid enough to put an unknown material in my expensive engine to test it in for their satisfaction then they are more than a tad stupid, or at the least misguided.

Can I put a stronger case for not using additives, I expect I can, but would have to spend more time justfying my commets.

Just another quick mention. I ran an Cortina 2 litre and always added Molyslip. I was ell opleased when it achived 110 thousand miles and engine stil ran smooth and ran like new as to noise levels smoothness etc. I put ot down to the Molyslip. Maybe it was maybe it was frequent oil changes (Duckhams) every 4 or 5 thousand miles. Next came my Sierra 1.8cvh. No additives this time but the bog standard Ford oil recommended. High grade mineral oil. Changed every 4 to 5 thousand miles but in last 100K miles every 6K. It is still going strong at 200K miles on the clock and engine sounds quiet still and performs well. No additives this time, and 200K miles. Eddie has cited his hire ducatos achieving far higher mileages, what better hands on and real world evidence is there oil additives are not needed but regular oil changes with the recommended grade of oil.

 

[crinklystarfish]

Good post Brambles, most informative.

Mike, no one can prove gods don't exist either, because they exist in the mind of man. It's appreciated that you passed on your perceived good experience but you really are wasting your cash.

[bolero boy]

Jon, you mean Nick not Eddie, I believe.

[Brambles]

Thanks Chris, I do indeed mean Nick. I t was late when I wrote...and BIG apologies to Nick for calling you Eddie.

You may keel haul me on a ducato van as punishment.

[Guest peter]

So he should. Nick wouldn't want to be mistaken for Eddie. Nick's a nice cheerful chappie, Eddie's a grumpy old bugger. :D (lol) (lol) (lol)

[Brambles]

Now now Peter, I got confused because I used to deal with a chap called Eddie from a Fleet company when I designed and developed tachographs.

[Mickydripin]

Thanks brambles for your time in a great post I am more confused now as I have been using this product fo almost a decade and your argument against it makes me think.

I recomended it as I thought that it was a good product and had served me well in the past I am not one to get hooked on things and have tried other additives in the past but they were of no use and did not live up to there promisis.

As I have said in the past the fuel economy in my car a Volvo V40D is great.

I went to the NEC caravan and motorhome show yesterday and I used 9lts of Deisel (tank filled top to top) on 120 mile return.

that was around 60 MPG for a I.9 D engine would I have done that if I was not using ZX1 I dont know now as I have just had a service on my car and put the ZX1 in,

Even if I did an oil change again and did not put ZX1 in it would be a long time before I could tell you the differance because they say that the coating will still be there after an oil change.

 

Mike.

 

 

[euroserv]

Jon,

 

Excellent post; highly informative and much more detailed than most people would ever expect on the forum. Thank you.

 

The problem with fully synthetic oil in Ducato 2.8's comes from the fact that the same basic engine has been around (as a 2.8) since 1998 and initially required 15W40, then 10W40 then in 2005 this was changed to 5W40! With only the desire to reduce friction and improve fuel economy the manufacturer had gone too far without improvements in oil seals. This is why, after 100,000 miles or more we noticed significantly more oil leaks. Since changing seals and going back to 10W40 semi syn oil we have had no new oil leaks. The above data has been gathered from about 60 vehicles reaching some 150,000 to 300,000 miles and a period of 14 years.

 

The later 2.3 and 3.0 engines require 5W40 semi synthetic oil but we use the fuly synthetic variety and have suffered no oil leaks whatsoever. They are clearly designed to a higher specification and make good on the claims made in the pre-launch blurb in 2006 that they will not leak oil. Our 2.3 vans have covered between 190,000 and 275,000 miles since 2007 and there are 25 vans of this type.

 

Finally; you can call me Eddie if you like! I am pretty easy going.

 

Nick

 

PS Mike,

 

A lot of people have been convinced about additives over the years, and many will continue to believe in their convictions until the end but there are much bigger mistakes that people make.... Not all of the different religions practiced around the world can be right! There are perhaps some very red faces about come judgement day!

[Brian Kirby]

On which note, with apologies, may I just say enough of all this tosh about oily gunk, and ask how the trips, and the new van, are going, Mike? Sounds as though it's OK so far?

[Mickydripin]

Thanks Brian for your intrest we had a great time and the van run like a dream.

Can you tell me the name of your awning I saw it on one of the posts but have forgot where, I have sent you a PM.

 

Mike.

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Mike. Ours is an Omnistor (Owned by Thule), but similar also available from Fiamma, Prostor (owned by Brustor, who are Brutsaert, the firm that used to own Omnistor), and Dometic. Not sure about Prostor availability in UK, so maybe not of much use. Fiamma and Omnistor are readily available in UK. Dometic have been advertising an awning that, they say, does not need legs at the front to support it. However, I can't find any details on their website, and the idea of cantilevering an object the size of an average awning from the side of an average motorhome seems to me a recipe for disaster, especially if it is windy! So, I think I'd stick to Omni or Fiamma.

With any wind out awning it is essential that the fitter knows where the reinforced areas are in the side of your van, since the leverage on these as the awning is extended is considerable. Most of the fixings bolt through the wall, so internal access is required at every point. Great care is also needed to ensure the mounting plates are properly sealed on the outside, to prevent water getting into the bolt holes. Fitters who don't know exactly what they are doing can cause considerable damage that may not be immediately apparent, possibly not revealing itself for years. For this reason, even if it may cost more, it may be worth getting the awning fitted by a CI dealer, who should know where to make fixings (worth checking this before signing on the dotted line!), and for some fixings (eg, in washroom), how to remove pieces of panelling etc to gain proper access from the inside. Can't offer any recommendations, I'm afraid, as ours was factory fitted!

[Mickydripin]

 

Hi brian

 

sorry I should have said your drive away awning tent

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Ah! Don't have one of them, do I? :-D