WildBill Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Hi all I am a bit confused as to what is happening next year regarding the LEZ. At the minute my 2004 Ducato gets in for free. This year we have been to one of the CC sites where we stayed for a week and visited London. Next year this site falls into the LEZ revised rules, (I think). I think that I will be charged for going to this site as I am not Euro 5 compliant. Is it a daily charge and how much? If I am correct in my thinking, then there will be a lot of people getting charged a lot of money to go to either of the CC sites or anywhere else in the LEZ. No doubt this will result in a loss of revenue at these sites. Surely the CC and C & CC as well as other clubs should be devoting a bit of time and money to let people know where they stand. This could be done via their magazine etc. As I have said, it is a bit confusing so maybe I am wrong!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Euro 5 vans have JUST began to appear so I think you are wrong on this....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderbirds Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Hello Wildbill, Both clubs and MMM mag have had articles on this. The rules depend on whether your van is under or over 3500kg. If you are not complient and under 3500kg the charge is £100 per day, over 3500kg is £200 per day. Below is a link to a posting I made on the April MMM article on LEZ changes and an error in the advice for owners of vans over 3500kg. http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=22882&posts=15 Hope this helps. Regards, Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Oh, that's good news............... I thought I would be charged £200 a day:D....................So its only a £100:-S................That's what I call a bargain*-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Hello all, The above information is incorrect! There are 2 sets of rules that apply depending on the weight of the vehicle and a grey area that you should investigate if it applies to you. From 3rd January 2012; Commercial vehicles over 3.5T have a lower limit of Euro4 and since most of you are not driving one of these I will leave that there. Larger vans of up to 3.5T, Ambulances and Motor Caravans with gross vehicle weights between 2.5 and 2.5T and Minibusses up to 5TGVW are affected if they are registered before 1st January 2002 which is the date by which they are assumed to be Euro3. THIS MEANS THAT MOST PEOPLE THAT HAVE A CAMPER VAN VEGISTERED AFTER JAN 2002 DO NOT NEED TO WORRY. If your vehicle has been identified by VOSA as not meeting the new legislation you will have been written to several times already but if you are in any doubt there is a website for checking your vehicle by registration number. This is www.tfl.gov.uk/lezlondon or call 0845 607 0009. The DAILY charge for vehicles that use the zone are different depending on the size of the vehicle. The majority of motorhomes will be the lower £100 fee which if unpaid before midnight on the first working day after you travel will result in a fine of £500 which is reduced to £250 if paid within 14 days. The charges and fines for HGV's are double the above, and (we) have to meet Euro4 as a minimum so vehicles registered before 2006 are affected!! The grey area that I forsee is a motorhome that has not been reclassified as Class 4 MOT and is still going to VOSA for MOT's because it has a GVW of over 3.5T could be required to meet Euro4 emissions like every other HGV. However if this is the case; you will already have been notified during the last 24 months that this is going to happen. I hope that this not only stops people with 2004 registered vehicles worrying (!) but also puts paid to the disinformation that is circulating. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 euroserv - 2011-10-13 2:22 PM From 3rd January 2012; Commercial vehicles over 3.5T have a lower limit of Euro4 and since most of you are not driving one of these I will leave that there. Nick Nick, A correction... A lot of us DO drive MH's over 3.5T and hence will not be able to enter London without paying the £200 per day charge after 3rd January 2012. I for one will steer very, very well clear of London after that. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 So what happens to the people that are in the LEZ and their vehicles don't meet the requirements, are they exempt? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Useful info here at the AA. Looks as if Vanners under 3.5T will need to be Euro3 compliant. Heavy weights go to Euro4? So thats not me visiting the smoke............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob b Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 As I understand it people with a motorhome in the LEZ are not exempt, but will not pay a penalty as long as they don't drive it anywhere in the LEZ ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 If that's correct bob b then it's an expensive statue on your drive. Just thought, what if you have no drive and have to leave it on the road...!!! Do they have to pay £100 per day 8-) I would have thought there would be grandfather rights for those that already owned a vehicle before the LEZ. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Retread24800 - 2011-10-13 8:17 PM Useful info here at the AA. Looks as if Vanners under 3.5T will need to be Euro3 compliant. Heavy weights go to Euro4? So thats not me visiting the smoke............. That's what I said. Regarding the other posts about vehicles over 3.5T.... Am i being completely stupid? I was under the impression that if your vehicle was built originally as an HGV but has been modified into a motor-caravan and has been inspected and meets the criteria set out by VOSA that you can re-classisfy the vehicle as a Class 4 MOT. Why would you not do that? If you do and your vehicle is built before 2006 you should get away with Euro3 instead of Euro4. That's why I said it was a grey area. In response to the other queries about living in the zone; you have to be detected driving past one of the camera locations in order to generate a fine, so being parked on the road should not be a problem as long as it is insured, taxed and not SORN'd. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 euroserv - 2011-10-14 10:30 AM In response to the other queries about living in the zone; you have to be detected driving past one of the camera locations in order to generate a fine, so being parked on the road should not be a problem as long as it is insured, taxed and not SORN'd. Nick ..I've now got an image of "A framers" who live within the LEZ,dragging their MHs out with their smart cars! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 euroserv - 2011-10-14 10:30 AM Regarding the other posts about vehicles over 3.5T.... Am i being completely stupid? I was under the impression that if your vehicle was built originally as an HGV but has been modified into a motor-caravan and has been inspected and meets the criteria set out by VOSA that you can re-classisfy the vehicle as a Class 4 MOT. Why would you not do that? If you do and your vehicle is built before 2006 you should get away with Euro3 instead of Euro4. That's why I said it was a grey area. Nick Nick, Unfortunately any MH built before 2006, weighing over 3.5T and only complying with Euro 3 is not compliant after Jan 2012 irrespective of body type and MOT class :'( Have a look on the tfl website and all is clear. tfl website link. I have also checked our MH (which is 3.8T) against it's registration number on tfl and it says it is non compliant so I will not be visiting London in it. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/17700.aspx#container this link will allow you to put in your vehicle registration number, and will show if you are currently and also under the new 2012 regs compliant. It's relatively quick, though confused me in the first instance the way the 'answer' was expressed - however, even if you are 99% sure, its a good way to check, as it could be very expensive otherwise. I do wonder if it will take quite a few continental visitors by surprise, as we often see relatively old motorhomes owner by these visitors on the London Caravan Club sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Also the CC temporary site for the Olympics is inside the LEZ I believe, something they have not mentioned in the advertising for it, many may not realise but it is not only motorhomes but some SUV's and other pick ups that may be towing caravans or fifth wheelers! That may well catch a few out Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Although a 'Londoner', I hav'nt set foot in or driven to London since the Congestion charge was introduced, Now with the LEZ charges as well. It will have to remain a distant memory for me. So, when i get my Knighthood the Queen will have to drive upto the Toddington services to do the 'Dubbing'. Talk about a 'Police State' i'm sure the 'Old Guard' in Albania would have been proud of them. I am only glad that i moved away years ago, as having to sell a 'Much loved' well maintained vehicle simply because it was 'Built to Specification' prior to 2002 would 'Boil my Blood'. >:-( Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Rayjsj - 2011-10-16 8:06 PMAlthough a 'Londoner', I hav'nt set foot in or driven to London since the Congestion charge was introduced, Now with the LEZ charges as well. RaySame here Ray:D...........Never worked there again after the CC......I ought to send Red Ken a thank you card(lol) This country has been to London centric for generations:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBill Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Thank you all for your help. I have been on the website and checked , (thanks for the link) and I am compliant. Thanks again Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Does this mean all the Routemaster buses have to pay! Just think of it, though, Oxford street is invariably nose to tail with 'red buses',all going no-where but emitting lots of fumes, and even when they are at destinations, they leave their engines running - often the excuse is 'we have to keep the heating on....' . Surely the few Motorhomes caught under this new ruling and running within the M25 corridor emit far less exhaust gasses, and over any given period (say 12 months) it must be a minute amount compared to all the other traffic! It would be reallyinteresting to find out how much money is actually generated over the year by motorhomes! Although not personally affected as my Burstner is Euro 4 complaint, I feel the Caravan Club and other suchbodies have seriously let us all down.... and I do wonder if the same rules have been applied in France, for example.....'Euro laws and rules', ah yes,sorry more money us taxpayers to give for those unelected people in Brussels thinking of what to do next! Reminds me of the H&S laws......isn't it great that in French markets you can still trip over all the cables running across the walkways - common sense is still applied over there in most cases, I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixter Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hi again Does this ruling apply to foreign registered vehicles? Not that I want to traverse or visit London in a Motorhome. But there are a lot of other Jonny Foreigners that DO like to see the sights and this will surel;y dent the coffers of the GLC, not to mention the CC and other worthies. Being in France is so much easier with a camping car, they ALL want you to stay in their village/town/city cos you spend your money there. Vixters Other Half ( worn out with renovations but still enjoying the life) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olley Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I think it should be made clear that this only effect Diesel engined Motorhomes, not Petrol. My 8 litre petrol RV for instance is OK. Crackers I know, but I don't make the rules. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 olley - 2011-10-17 12:18 AM I think it should be made clear that this only effect Diesel engined Motorhomes, not Petrol. My 8 litre petrol RV for instance is OK. Crackers I know, but I don't make the rules. Ian You may think it is crackers, but the target of the LEZ (in common with many similar zones in Europe) is largely to remove "particulates" from the atmosphere, not simply to target exhaust emissions as a whole. This is why diesel, and not petrol, engines are the focus. The German system, for instance, treats all petrol engines (at least those in vehicles registered from 1993 - ostensibly those with a Cat) as being in the "Green" class, whereas the rules for diesels are very much more restrictive (in a manner similar to the LEZ). Of course, the penalties for non-observance are somewhat cheaper in Germany (and I suspect that the chances of being caught are somewhat lower than the LEZ with it's ANPR systems). In many ways, I support the underlying reason for the LEZ, but am not at all happy with the way it has been implemented. I have responded to each of the consultations, including the recent one which coincided with the delay to the latest changes, attempting to make the case for the exemption of certain vehicles, including Motorcaravans (with no success, of course). :-( As I have mentioned before, I would strongly suggest that one should carry out the check by registration number as set out above, and not simply rely on one's own view of compliance or not. My own 'van is 3500kg MAM and EuroIV, but was shown as non-compliant on the system, since details had never been updated when my registration was transferred from my previous 3850kg EuroIII vehicle. (6 Months after change). I have manually registered the change, and am now shown as compliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 OR, simply 'obscure' your numberplate when travelling in/through/past London. 8-) Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmaggott Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Keithl - 2011-10-13 5:42 PMeuroserv - 2011-10-13 2:22 PMFrom 3rd January 2012;Commercial vehicles over 3.5T have a lower limit of Euro4 and since most of you are not driving one of these I will leave that there.NickNick,A correction...A lot of us DO drive MH's over 3.5T and hence will not be able to enter London without paying the £200 per day charge after 3rd January 2012.I for one will steer very, very well clear of London after that.Keith. I have been to the website and it shows that my van is now compliant and also that it will be compliant post 3 January. However, there is a rider stating that not all vehicles have been updated on the site and that this may change! I don't currently intend to enter the charging area but may need to in the future so will be checking again in the new year to find out if we are indeed still compliant. BTW mine is above 3.5 T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stantheman Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Don't think that my 2001 registered 3.5 tonne Ducato will be compliant after Jan next year. However, last year I applied for an Umwelt sticker to travel through Germany. It is yellow and has a big number 3 printed on it. Does this mean it's Euro 3 compliant. I suspect not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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