Guest Tracker Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 We visited or used the following Aires and found a few errors in the All the Aires France 3rd Edition book. This is maybe unsurprising as the sites were last seen in 2010 and things change over time. I sent Vicarious books a copy of the following list but they have not replied so I assume they are not interested in customer feedback. Shame as it could be a very good and cost effective (free) way of keeping the book updated. Page 161 Artaix - 16 - Lovely canalside - Sadly occupied by Irish 'tinkers' with lots of dogs, some on the loose, and dog noise who also had a barge on the canal and looked as if they were there for a while? We moved straight on to - Page 161 Melay -13 - Another pleasant canalside where there was no road noise at all during the night and just a brief period in the morning at 'rush hour'? Page 200 Briare 2 - 81 - Nearest water point at '82' not '80'. Great location canalside but it pays to be early as it soon fills each day. Page 200 Briare 3 - 82 - Flot Bleu CC 3 Euros for water. English CC accepted (not all do) Just a car park but a good overflow for the previous one Page 204 Sully sur Loire - 98 - Custom borne free unrestricted water and emptying. Very pleasant location alongside the Loire. Spacious pitches and a short level walk to town and favulous chateau. Page 209 Mareuil sur Ay - 9 - Water + EHU 5 Euros for three hours no rinse water at emptying point which is a lift up drain cover in the road. Nice canalside location. Page 217 Mutigny - 40 - Water and limited 3 hours electric 5 Euros by CC. Great views but a long way fron town. Page 257 Oradour Sur Glane - 23 - Many pitches sloping. borne broken no water available but able to empty but not rinse. Very busy, unglamourous but does the job for a night or two. Page 260 St Dizier Leyrenne - 36 - Very quiet. borne closed in October. Nice village and lakeside walks close. Page 269 Monastiere sur Gazeille - 69 - Would have been quiet apart from local dogs barking all day and most of the night. We did not locate the borne and nobody else seemed to know where it was either - but as we did not need water it did not matter! Other than that lovely location close to interesting old town Page 275 Bourganeuf - 96 - Can be a bit noisy at times being almost town centre. Page 444 Petit Fort Phillipe - 20 - Car park occupied by circus early October - which appeared to be there for the Winter? Page 450 Gravelines - 43 - Charge now - Pay and display machine 6 Euros Apr/Sep and 3 Euros Oct/Mar. Service point as below. Pleasant riverside location used alot by Brits awaiting a ferry so expect vans to arrive and leave at all hours. Most folks were as quiet as they could be. NEW Gravelines Service point new borne (stainless steel type as on page 37) next to Gendarmerie well signed from '43'. 2 Euros by CC only. Sorry forgot to get coordinates but very easy to find! Page 451 Souppes sur Loing - 47 - Next to Sugar Beet factory. Noisy with machinery, heavy lorries, cooked beet smell in sugar season. Local TO officials call to collect 5 Euros per night and water at the TO is another 2 Euros! Would probably very very pleasant out od sugar season and when not raining! Page 454 Crespin - 60 - Token for water available from nearby '8 a huit' store for 2 Euros, not from Mairie as sign says. Page 580 Roanne - 108 - Parking is 6 Euros per night honesty box. Someone will call in AM and give you 1 free jeton (if you have paid 6 Euros) which is not enough to get water! Very busy location, be early or be prepared to use a nearby free car park of which there are several. Borne takes 2 jetons for water and emptying, available from Capitainerie at 2.10 Euros each cash or by CC in on site borne. Several English CCs all refused by pay machine. Spacious individual plost twixt Loire and Canal, interesting but busy town. NEW Launois sur Vance Euro Relais Junior Jetons from Mairie. No parking provision. Off Rue de Thin (D20) on edge of village. Located at N49 deg 39.485, E004 deg 32.391 on my TomTom. No photos as it was hissing with rain! NEW Privas Would be on map page 24, I9 in Rhone Alps and located at N 44 deg 44.254, E 004 deg 36.073. Located in Chemin du Mezayon (C28), Privas, on edge of town and clearly signed from main N304/D104 and town centre. Semi rural edge of town location with housing nearby and good mountainside views. About 10 spaces commonly used by motorhomes, slightly sloping but no time limit and no charges. Has been there several years according to a German motorhomer we spoke to. Overnight parking free on tarmac, illuminated car park not specifically motorhome designated spaces but plenty of room when we visited. Drinking water, grey and toilet emptying all free from Urba Flux type borne. Probably open all year? Terraced with parking area above service point and accessed via a steep entrance. Access and turning might be tight for very large vans depending on how others park? Very quiet, shops 5 min walk away. We liked it and would use it again. Visited 2/10/2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Good post Tracker, and may be worth mentioning there is a little known aire just the other side of the estuary from Gravelines, at Grand Fort Philippe along side the estuary. A lot quieter than Gravelines, and because it is little known we had no problem getting a space when Gravelines was rammed on both our outward and inward journey. No service point but as Tracker said there is a new one by the Gendarmerie at Gravelines. Would be quite a nice spot apart from the copious amounts of dog crap all along the estuary walkway, forget a stroll after dark ! ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 We often stop at Grand Fort Philippe did try the Gravelines one earlier this year very busy couldn't park on the official Aire as 1foot says Grand Fort Philippe is much quieter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 We have also parked overnight in the river/estuary side car park off Bd Carnot and the car parking area on Bd Leon Marchal, both in Grand Fort Philippe and both also used by other motorhomes. The last time we used them they were both free - but then so also was the riverside parking on Rue du Port at Gravelines at that time but it isn't now and I didn't look at the others this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 Thanks fellows, have stayed at a few of these but will take note of the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 LordThornber - 2011-10-24 12:07 PM Following on from Henry's request.... This is where we stayed as a base for visiting Orleans. http://www.olivet.fr/decouvrir-olivet/tourisme/l-accueil-touristique-51.html This is a Municipal site about 10 - 15 mins walk into Olivet. Not a very inspiring walk but a pleasant high street with all the usual butchers bakers and candlestick makers await. The site itself, whilst not busy, it was closing for winter on our last day there, was blissfully quiet. You really could hear the proverbial pin drop. Of course we had the pick of the pitches, chose a riverside pitch, almost all had elec and water and we were rewarded with daily visits from red squirrel and herons. There's WiFi, a brand new facilities block and a very warm greeting at reception. There's a traffic free cycle path all the way, (20 mins) into Orleans, bus or tram service outside the site too. I think it was €14 per night, not cheap at this time of year, (in my view), but the peace and tranquility offered up were well worth the money. A really good find for our "type" of camping. Martyn Martyn we may have stayed here ourselves a few years ago. The tram into Orleans is about 15 mins walk away and a nice gaden where the river source is. If so nice to hear they have a new toilet block as it needed one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I was very reluctant to try aires last year, and in my mind's eye I pictured parking in very close proximity to neighbours, and noise. But I was wrong on both counts. Only at Honfleur have me and my family been packed in, but you know what? We were so grateful to just squeeze in and explore such a very pretty town in great weather, that the fact it was a dump didn't really matter. Elsewhere, there's been far more space every time. Le Cretoy (Normandy coast) was great, again very close to the town, so we went back this year, as it's handy from Calais, as is the much bigger St Valery sur Somme. But the thing that stands out in my mind, whether an aire is just a glorified car park or something a bit more, is that the French (and other nationalities which converge) seem to have a common understanding about noise. Perhaps I've been very lucky, but I've not heard a peep out of everyone after ten at night, which is personally probably more important than anything else I can think of. Municipals are great too, but they tend to attract people who set up camp for much longer, and with kids and teenagers charging about (and as they're on holiday, fair dos), but sometimes there's annoying noise into the night, so I'm leaning more towards aires at present. Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertandjean Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Henri, In response to your request for "good" aires in Provence, then these are some we have stayed on which we feel meet this criteria: Cuges-Les-Pins (13) Terraced pitches, hard standing, warden lives site, good walks and easy walk to village. Mirabel-Aux-Baronnies (26) Next to road but fine and just below nice village. Small so soon full. Nyons (26) Designated parking area for camping cars (entry by credit card). Adjacent to typical northern Provancal town. Uzes (30), domain Viticole de St Firmin; also in France Passion scheme. Land a bit rough, but right in town centre. Fontaine-de-Vaucluse (84) easy walk to interesting village. Aire is large "car park" style and busy but quiet and nice enough. Visan (84) Domain des Lauribert, again also in FP. Not near village, but a nice setting and with all services inc. el. Very friendly owner with some very good wines. La Motte (83) New aire now 400 metres north of village centre; pleasant village. Les Arcs-sur- Argens (83) Very popular aire at the local wine co-op. Village well worth a day or two. St-Croix-de-Verdon (04) Nice aire with ex. lake views. Caille (06) More "Alpine" in fell than Provance but a nice stop next to nice village in dept with limited no. of aires so worth putting in. So there we are 2 handfulls of aires! But remember these are aires, so no communal showers etc, and you might be parked close to your French neighbours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 robertandjean - 2011-10-27 8:36 PM Henri, In response to your request for "good" aires in Provence, then these are some we have stayed on which we feel meet this criteria: Cuges-Les-Pins (13) Terraced pitches, hard standing, warden lives site, good walks and easy walk to village. Mirabel-Aux-Baronnies (26) Next to road but fine and just below nice village. Small so soon full. Nyons (26) Designated parking area for camping cars (entry by credit card). Adjacent to typical northern Provancal town. Uzes (30), domain Viticole de St Firmin; also in France Passion scheme. Land a bit rough, but right in town centre. Fontaine-de-Vaucluse (84) easy walk to interesting village. Aire is large "car park" style and busy but quiet and nice enough. Visan (84) Domain des Lauribert, again also in FP. Not near village, but a nice setting and with all services inc. el. Very friendly owner with some very good wines. La Motte (83) New aire now 400 metres north of village centre; pleasant village. Les Arcs-sur- Argens (83) Very popular aire at the local wine co-op. Village well worth a day or two. St-Croix-de-Verdon (04) Nice aire with ex. lake views. Caille (06) More "Alpine" in fell than Provance but a nice stop next to nice village in dept with limited no. of aires so worth putting in. So there we are 2 handfulls of aires! But remember these are aires, so no communal showers etc, and you might be parked close to your French neighbours. OK thanks once again to you. Did look at Fontaine de Vaucluse this year, in fact parked their for walk to spring, did not stay very, very crowded. Will take note of others and look up when in the area again, as no doubt we will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Not been on here for nearly half a year as I’ve been busy seeing "all the aires!!!" (Not the crappy book.) Good to see there is still some good old banter and rucks going on. We have been away now for five months but sadly will be back home on Monday. We have visited Germany, Switzerland Italy and France. Most of the time has been spent in France. We have almost exclusively stayed on Stellplatz, Sostas, Aires or Wild camped. The few occasions we have stayed on sites, apart from a couple they were dire. Nearly all the Aires, Sostas and Stellplatz we have stayed on have ranged from acceptable to Superb. The whole trip is on our site www.hankthetank.co.uk under BLOG and Summer 2011. Some great places to stay and a few interesting stories from nearly being murdered by the Stellplatz killer to nearly killing myself on Lake Croix in Provence. I use the camping car infos site as it lists many aires that are not in the book as well as wild camping spots. I quite enjoy researching the next spot online the night before we move on and I think there is a bit of an art to finding the best Aires. I think one of the reasons we often find the better ones is because of the scooter. Take for example the Aire at Sarlat in the Dordogne. Its crap. Overcrowded and pretty scrappy. A few miles away (easy scooter distance) at Montfort is a superb free aire under a Chateau which always has loads of space. We tend to seek out the ones that are away from the main attractions but easy biking distance. The Marie has usually made more of an effort and they are nearly always free often with free water and on quite a free EHU. We were away right through the school holidays and still managed to find quiet Aires. The campsites on the other hand looked awful and packed to the rafters with screaming kids. Not my idea of fun. Aveyron region was stunning in mid to late August and practically empty! It’s not all about the cost to us but the freedom but cost is a factor when your away half the year and two months of that is peak season. Our average nightly cost is less than £4 so about £500 for five months. If we had used campsites it would be more like £3000 and probably more. I can buy a lot of Leffe and French cheese for £2.5K We hope to full time soon and venture way of the beaten track where I hope to write a travelogue and document the whole thing in real time. Cheers Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 Barry, I have been following your trip a little and will read the full thing. One point, you say you research the next aire on line the night before. How do you do this, can you find a wifi spot every night, am sure we would all like to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Barryd999 - 2011-11-04 8:41 AM... I think there is a bit of an art to finding the best Aires... Totally agree, and I think this is one of the main reasons why there are often very polarised views on how good / bad they (as a concept) are. Come to that, it's probably one of the main reasons for the polarisation of views on wild camping too. campingcar-infos is a good source as a starter for ten, but there are some howlingly bad spots in their databases too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 We always try to arrive at our chosen destination for the next night or two around mid afternoon. If it's an Aire and it's crap ( as many are ) we would then either look for another nearby or a municipal. "All the Aires" book with their descriptions cannot always be taken at face value. One in particular I have in mind shows the picture of a big old agricultural building,and in the text description " no evidence of parking" enough to stop you in your tracks. The reality is this particular one has a choice of three locations all within close proximity, two of which are on large open fields with views of the sea, no mention of that in the book though, and is a superb "hear a pin drop" spot at 5 Euro's. We try to pick and mix, we don't always get it right and have stayed over night at some dire camp-sites, and Aires, but for us that's all part of the experience, and at the end of the day you can drive on the next day. As for researching before hand, smart phones allow this, as does my cheap Nokia N73, I don't think on our last trip there was ever an occasion where we could not get a 3g signal, unlike the UK, but the data cost would for us be a limiting factor ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 rupert123 - 2011-11-04 10:01 AM Barry, I have been following your trip a little and will read the full thing. One point, you say you research the next aire on line the night before. How do you do this, can you find a wifi spot every night, am sure we would all like to know. You can download the Campingcar-infos website to your hard drive for 8€, or buy it on a USB stick for 15€ plus p&p., so no need for internet access. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 derek500 - 2011-11-04 11:55 AM rupert123 - 2011-11-04 10:01 AM Barry, I have been following your trip a little and will read the full thing. One point, you say you research the next aire on line the night before. How do you do this, can you find a wifi spot every night, am sure we would all like to know. You can download the Campingcar-infos website to your hard drive for 8€, or buy it on a USB stick for 15€ plus p&p., so no need for internet access. . Yes I know Derek have the usb stick but still find All the Aires book better, thanks anyway, but Barry quotes he looks up on internet every night and I am curious. I know all the usual ways of doing this but most cost more than a good site for the night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Barryd999 - 2011-11-04 8:41 AM Not been on here for nearly half a year as I’ve been busy seeing "all the aires!!!" (Not the crappy book.) The whole trip is on our site www.hankthetank.co.uk under BLOG and Summer 2011. Some great places to stay and a few interesting stories from nearly being murdered by the Stellplatz killer to nearly killing myself on Lake Croix in Provence. Cheers Barry Nice read Barry it's not a blog it's an epic had three sessions at it so far & not finished reading and I've still got your other ones to read. Do keep it up but it does make me jealous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 rupert123 - 2011-11-04 5:58 PM derek500 - 2011-11-04 11:55 AM rupert123 - 2011-11-04 10:01 AM Barry, I have been following your trip a little and will read the full thing. One point, you say you research the next aire on line the night before. How do you do this, can you find a wifi spot every night, am sure we would all like to know. You can download the Campingcar-infos website to your hard drive for 8€, or buy it on a USB stick for 15€ plus p&p., so no need for internet access. . Yes I know Derek have the usb stick but still find All the Aires book better, thanks anyway, but Barry quotes he looks up on internet every night and I am curious. I know all the usual ways of doing this but most cost more than a good site for the night. Perhaps he finds a McDonalds every night. You seem to be anti Aire and Anti wild camp reading between the lines so perhaps a better option for you is to stick to sites, may save you a lot of disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 rupert123 - 2011-11-04 6:58 PM Yes I know Derek have the usb stick but still find All the Aires book better, thanks anyway, but Barry quotes he looks up on internet every night and I am curious. I know all the usual ways of doing this but most cost more than a good site for the night. The All the Aires book is OK , but doesn't have all the aires in it!! We tend to use the Parking aires (without services) and these also aren't in the All the Aires book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-11-04 6:40 PM rupert123 - 2011-11-04 5:58 PM derek500 - 2011-11-04 11:55 AM rupert123 - 2011-11-04 10:01 AM Barry, I have been following your trip a little and will read the full thing. One point, you say you research the next aire on line the night before. How do you do this, can you find a wifi spot every night, am sure we would all like to know. You can download the Campingcar-infos website to your hard drive for 8€, or buy it on a USB stick for 15€ plus p&p., so no need for internet access. . Yes I know Derek have the usb stick but still find All the Aires book better, thanks anyway, but Barry quotes he looks up on internet every night and I am curious. I know all the usual ways of doing this but most cost more than a good site for the night. Perhaps he finds a McDonalds every night. You seem to be anti Aire and Anti wild camp reading between the lines so perhaps a better option for you is to stick to sites, may save you a lot of disappointment. That is why I do stick mainly to sites, because they are the better option. Not anti aires, we do use them as you must know by this thread, to save a bit of money on one night stays. We will continue to try aires but will only use the ones that we like and meet our requirements. As for free loader, sorry wild ha ha camping, have on occasion been tempted by this but am reluctant to just pitch up on someones land without permission which you seem to have no problem with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Oh, so your the bloke that follows our every move, how else would you know where we stay. Your pomposity shines through every word you type, please give it a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 For overnight stops in France, we use a mixture of 'aires' (car-parks or otherwise), inexpensive campsites or France Passion sites (a free 2011 subscription was nice). We never stay in one place longer than a couple of days but, if we did, then on a campsite would seem to be the logical choice. Would anyone like to define what 'wild camping' is? There's a 6-page article about motorhome parking in the November 2011 issue of "Le Monde du Camping-Car" with some intriguing opinions and plenty of comments about the delights of staying in isolated spots (but always doing this 'discreetly', of course!) If the principle of 'wild camping' as rupert123 seems to be suggesting (and I've some sympathy with his definition) always involves staying somewhere where it's not evident that you've got permission to do so (say up an off-road track in a forest), it's a bit optimistic to expect to do this discreetly in a socking great motorhome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertandjean Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Sat outside Hotel du Centre here in Briare enjoying morning coffee and the mild weather, whilst making use of the "free" wi-fi from adjacent estate agents! (who said estate agents never gave something for nothing). Staying on canal side parking, really nice situation. Original intention was to aim for the newest aire here, next to the camp site, which for 7 euros has individual pitches and hook-ups but it is a long way out, isolated and given mild weather not worth going to (infact would not recommend at any time, but more of this and other aires we have/are visiting later. Derreck is right the article in "Le Monde du Camping-car" is interesting and shows the wide views held by French vanners as to best places to stay, but few favour camp sites! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod_vw Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-11-04 10:33 AM We always try to arrive at our chosen destination for the next night or two around mid afternoon. If it's an Aire and it's crap ( as many are ) we would then either look for another nearby or a municipal. "All the Aires" book with their descriptions cannot always be taken at face value. One in particular I have in mind shows the picture of a big old agricultural building,and in the text description " no evidence of parking" enough to stop you in your tracks. The reality is this particular one has a choice of three locations all within close proximity, two of which are on large open fields with views of the sea, no mention of that in the book though, and is a superb "hear a pin drop" spot at 5 Euro's. We try to pick and mix, we don't always get it right and have stayed over night at some dire camp-sites, and Aires, but for us that's all part of the experience, and at the end of the day you can drive on the next day. As for researching before hand, smart phones allow this, as does my cheap Nokia N73, I don't think on our last trip there was ever an occasion where we could not get a 3g signal, unlike the UK, but the data cost would for us be a limiting factor ;-) Apart from the last paragraph I couldn't have described our selection of stopping places better myself! The active internet connection doesn’t bother us as we have POIs from many sources on a laptop running Autoroute plus the use of a number of maps. (Yes those paper things that fold out into something too large to use when on the move!) I've also found that there are some excellent French Aires books my favourite being a rather battered copy of 'Le Guide National des Aires de Services Camping-Cars'. Over the past few years I have built my own database of places we have visited and made that available to Autoroute as a Pushpin file providing a quick reminder of where to visit again or avoid as the case may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 This years trip we had the internet every single day without fail for next to nothing. We also have the offline version of the camping car infos website loaded on the laptop as previously mentioned. We have the Repeat IT wifi antenna from Faculty X. This brings in wifi signals from up to five miles across clear line of site but typically a mile or so usually. This gets us connected about fifty percent of the time. A big bonus this year has been the Vodafone Data traveller package where for £10 a month you can have internet access all over Europe on a smart phone. Ive never rated my iPhone to be honest and see it as a designer phone for posers (mine was given to me) but it came into its own on this trip. You only get 25MB a day but this is more than enough to browse for hours on a smart phone. So when doing the researching the first option is to try and get online with the antenna and if that fails use the iphone. The good thing about the data traveller package is that it will choose any provider thats got an available signal so this meant that in five months we always got a signal with one provider or another wherever we were. I can also use the iphone google translate to translate the french comments on Aires from the off line version of camping infos. A bit laborious but I enjoy it as the translations are quite funny! I agree about the Aires book. Dont know who writes the reviews but some of the "Really Nice" aires that are in Orange turn out to be crap while some of the ones that dont read well or have rubbish photos turn out to be lovely. I usually look at the book and then read the info on camping infos. The only time we havent got on an Aire was one of the ones in St Tropez in early August where they were actually queing in the hope of getting on. Our fault. If we are mad enough to take the van to the Cote D'Azure in August what can you expect. As regards wild camping. Have a look at some of the locations right at the end of the blog summer 2011 trip on the beaches around Cherbourg or explore the section on the site for the Isle of Arran or photos and then tell me your not just a bit tempted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-11-04 10:53 PM Oh, so your the bloke that follows our every move, how else would you know where we stay. Your pomposity shines through every word you type, please give it a rest. I know the type of places you stay because you have quoted them often enough, as I do. Follow you, difficult as you keep your identity a close secret. I make no secret of my preferences and if you do not like them well to bad, if that is pomposity well fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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