rupert123 Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 Your trip sounds great Barry and have followed it with interest as we use the same system as you, park up and use our scooter.. We never bother much with internet while away but was interested in your remark about research. Next year will try your internet approach as it could be usefull. Have been tempted by some free camping spots, as I have stated in my recent thread about our 'route of the high alps trip' but the problems I know that been caused by M/H,s parking up for the night on what is certainly someones land continues to stop us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 rupert123 - 2011-11-05 6:29 PM 1footinthegrave - 2011-11-04 10:53 PM Oh, so your the bloke that follows our every move, how else would you know where we stay. Your pomposity shines through every word you type, please give it a rest. I know the type of places you stay because you have quoted them often enough, as I do. Follow you, difficult as you keep your identity a close secret. I make no secret of my preferences and if you do not like them well to bad, if that is pomposity well fine by me. I live in West Wales, drive an 2003 IH Savannah tio ( not many of those around ), and go by the nickname 1foot, Oh and stop in places as far from the rest of the human race as possible, mainly because of your type, you know the ones that use phrases like " I make no secret of my preferences" who the hell do you think cares about your preferences. How much more do you need to know rupert123, Beddgelert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Glad to see nothing’s changed much on here! :-D I think there is a big difference wilding in Europe to the UK. The Brits and particularly the English are very territorial. I’ve seen Aires and Stellplatz right near to houses, off village squares or next to the village boules court. No one gives a chuff. Everyone gets on and the locals like to see Le Camping Car. Can you imagine that in England? Some quaint little village in the Cotswolds and someone decides to build an Aire in the middle of it! It would make the national news and the locals would go nuts. Perhaps this is because they just associate motorhomes with gypsies or low life’s trying to get a cheap holiday (HA! if only) I don’t know but in Europe they see things differently. We don’t wild camp that much in Europe as there are so many great and often free places to stay but sometimes it’s great to find that perfect spot by a lake, river or sea. I sometimes get a twinge of doubt when parking up but it is nearly always alleviated when we meet the first local who is totally friendly and not bothered you are parked in his beauty spot unlike in the UK where you attract frowns and stares like your invading their property. This is why Aires won’t work in the UK. Too many territorial objectors and miserable "not in my backyard" attitudes. Stuff em! Doesn’t bother me as I don’t intend staying here much longer if I can help it. Agree about wilding in numbers though. The whole point of finding a quiet wild spot for us is just that. Not parking up with ten vans spoiling the view and attracting attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Barryd999 - 2011-11-06 10:30 AM We don’t wild camp that much in Europe as there are so many great and often free places to stay but sometimes it’s great to find that perfect spot by a lake, river or sea. I sometimes get a twinge of doubt when parking up but it is nearly always alleviated when we meet the first local who is totally friendly and not bothered you are parked in his beauty spot unlike in the UK where you attract frowns and stares like your invading their property. This is why Aires won’t work in the UK. Too many territorial objectors and miserable "not in my backyard" attitudes. Stuff em! Doesn’t bother me as I don’t intend staying here much longer if I can help it. Couldn't agree more, recently in France we were wilding by a lake local farmer going for his evening bunny shoot made a point of slowing down to say hello. Generally the locals in France are pleased you have stopped to visit their area/village and make you welcome. We even had a prang on on a narrow road, the other driver couldn't have been more pleasant. I find more & more I don't like camping in the UK & when you can often get a ferry crossing for 50 quid it's cheaper to nip across to France for a long weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 lennyhb - 2011-11-06 10:56 AM it's cheaper to nip across to France for a long weekend. Not when you live 302 miles from Dover its not.... :D :D :D Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Barryd999 - 2011-11-04 8:41 AM... I think there is a bit of an art to finding the best Aires... And of course, equally true for finding the best camp sites. crinklystarfish - 2011-11-04 10:06 AM Totally agree, and I think this is one of the main reasons why there are often very polarised views on how good / bad they (as a concept) are. Come to that, it's probably one of the main reasons for the polarisation of views on wild camping too.campingcar-infos is a good source as a starter for ten, but there are some howlingly bad spots in their databases too...All true, and equally so for the similarly depressing comments that campsites are crowded and noisy with cramped pitches. Some, in peak season, in popular resort areas, undoubtedly are. Others, out of the peak season, in less popular, non-resort, areas, are lightly populated, with spacious pitches, on which the noisiest thing is the dawn chorus! However, because of the facilities provided, they are almost invariably more expensive. Yer pays yer money! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 LordThornber - 2011-11-06 11:46 AM lennyhb - 2011-11-06 10:56 AM it's cheaper to nip across to France for a long weekend. Not when you live 302 miles from Dover its not.... :D :D :D Martyn Not far from Scotland then & free camping. (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-11-05 10:20 PM...........................I ...............stop in places as far from the rest of the human race as possible, mainly because of your type, you know the ones that use phrases like " I make no secret of my preferences" who the hell do you think cares about your preferences. .................... Blimey! Probably a good maxim, given your apparent attitude to the "rest of human race". Try to keep the war behind Clawdd Offa, though chaps, please. We can't have the peace of England being disturbed! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I should have qualified my comment as "the majority of" I don't think it is any mystery that some of us at least enjoy our "camping" to get away from it all, and that includes other folk some times, otherwise we'd all be doing the "packed like sardines" package holidays in Benidorm, not enjoying the peace and solitude that can be sometimes found even in this ever more crowded world.. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 One book of interest and has numerous Aires and campsites listed is "Escapades en Camping-Car by Michelin and covers many areas. I came accross it in a french bookshop this year and I have found it very helpful, it cost 15.90 e. It is printed in french but self explanatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 lennyhb - 2011-11-06 10:56 AM Barryd999 - 2011-11-06 10:30 AM We don’t wild camp that much in Europe as there are so many great and often free places to stay but sometimes it’s great to find that perfect spot by a lake, river or sea. I sometimes get a twinge of doubt when parking up but it is nearly always alleviated when we meet the first local who is totally friendly and not bothered you are parked in his beauty spot unlike in the UK where you attract frowns and stares like your invading their property. This is why Aires won’t work in the UK. Too many territorial objectors and miserable "not in my backyard" attitudes. Stuff em! Doesn’t bother me as I don’t intend staying here much longer if I can help it. Couldn't agree more, recently in France we were wilding by a lake local farmer going for his evening bunny shoot made a point of slowing down to say hello. Generally the locals in France are pleased you have stopped to visit their area/village and make you welcome. We even had a prang on on a narrow road, the other driver couldn't have been more pleasant...................... Well, yes but! I'm afraid I think you may both be overlooking a number of factors, beyond mere cussedness. England has a far higher population density than almost any other European country. Its land is expensive, so even provision of a spot for an aire is much more costly than is generally the case in other countries. Its homes are smaller and closer together than is generally the case elsewhere, so any intrusion is "on top of" someone else. The landscape is generally of a smaller scale, and more delicate, so large white vehicles, such as caravans and motorhomes, are an immediate eyesore. For all these reasons, we are more protective of, and value, the overall appearance of our countryside. That, IMO, is a good thing. You do also seem to ignore that the countries with widespread aire type facilities, and with a greater tolerance of wild camping, are, by and large, a minority of two: just France and Germany - with Italy as a distant third. Aires in cotswold villages? Well, there are a few campsites in the cotswolds, despite the controls, so it cannot be that it is the vehicles themselves that disbar "aires" from being created. However, the cotswolds is "prime real estate" territory, and the cost of land, for a rural area, is astronomic. Given that, you'll hardly get an aire for £5 a night, and definitely not for free. I think cost is the reason here, as in many other parts of England. As to whether the French, or anyone else, are so relaxed about motorhomes staying in beauty spots: oh yeah? :-) Aires get closed, partly because locals complain. Tried wilding, or even parking, along the Cote d'Azur? Not noticed how camping-car access to certain Norman and Breton harbour side car parks has been closed? Is it still as easy to wild camp along the Algarve as it used to be, or along the Spanish coast as it was? Even in Morocco? Not noticed the (actually illegal, under French law) growth of signs banning camping-cars from many car parks? All these bans and prohibitions arise because folk first sniff out a place to park, then others follow, then the numbers become large, then locals declare a nuisance, and then the restrictions follow. Because England is so much more densely populated, the first van is instantly spotted, the potential problem quickly anticipated, and the restriction imposed before the nuisance can arise. That, and the resulting cost of land, IMO, is the only real difference that explains why England appears less tolerant then France and Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-11-06 1:20 PM I should have qualified my comment as "the majority of" I don't think it is any mystery that some of us at least enjoy our "camping" to get away from it all, and that includes other folk some times, otherwise we'd all be doing the "packed like sardines" package holidays in Benidorm, not enjoying the peace and solitude that can be sometimes found even in this ever more crowded world.. :-( At the moment I am in a 4star hotel with an open outlook to the mountains behind Benidorm and last night you could have heard a pin drop. Benidorm has a lot going for it and is not for those with blinkers on but again it's everybody to there own but do not spout rubbish without ascertaining the facts What I am saying 1foot is change your name to 1footinthemouth as you are way off the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Like you say everyone to their own, don't assume I've never been, once had the pleasure of driving through on route to somewhere more conducive. If sky scrapers and full English breakfasts,"British" bars, and nothing to remind you of the country you are actually in is your bag then good luck end enjoy it. Odd that even being there is not riveting enough for you without coming on these forums to let the world know how great it is, you might want to add Salou as a destination as well, we had the most memorable week there..........ONCE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Very much a blinkered reply which is a trademark of your postings 1Foot If you drove through then you would have missed the Tapas bars in the old town which are a distinctive part of Spain and also the bull ring although I have never been and not sure if I would want to go but they are all part of Spain. Last time we were here it was the Fallis? and that was a real parade/fiesta worth the seeing . Yes Benidorm is very much Blackpool but gives a lot of pleasure to many in many different ways. If you want the many bars they are there but for those not so able on there feet it's easy walking with certainly a different life style to see. "Odd that even being there is not riveting enough for you without coming on these forums to let the world know how great it is, you might want to add Salou as a destination as well, we had the most memorable week there..........ONCE.". Typifies your blinkered and narrow minded outlook. I have been in many places and certainly will not say that Benidorm is the best but would not decry it in the manner you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 Good post Brian but I must take issue with you on one point. I suspect the tolerance to 'wild camping' will soon be a minority of nil if the irresponsible attitude of, in particular, French M/H's keeps going. Now I know no one on here could possibly behave in a irresponsable manner but it is certainly true that the actions of these people have affected all of us. Brian pointed out a couple of areas in France it has been clamped on, their are many others which anyone who has been travelling around europe for a long time will know. Incidently what is 'wilding' sounds like a new game for a playstation, surely not people using terms like this to try and justify/glamorise their actions. This year I noticed in the Mercantile national park camping outside of official spots has been banned. Their is a great range of aires and campsites in France so no excuse not to stick with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Speaking to almost anyone confirms that an awful lot of the French baulk at the idea of paying, and thereby hangs the problem. We together with many others we have spoken to have witnessed them coming on to Aires after or leaving before the Monsieur/ madam calls around for the few Euros'. We also witnessed a German van pull away leaving a full binbag of crap at Le Crotoy, despite the close proximity of a large bin. They have also prohibited "vans" parking up on dock at Bologne-sur-mer, and the same is likely to happen at Gravelines for ignoring the boulders put in place, and just generally taking the P**** you know awnings out, deck chairs and the like things not supposed to happen on Aires ( but ignored by all Brits included) we witness so much bad behaviour, and some of you guys wonder at my comment ( we try to avoid the human race ) well not all................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmar Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Any firm news on whether the aire at Gravelines is likely to close? We used it for the first time last year and I have to say that it was far too full for anyone to attempt to use an awning or put out chairs. However, we were impressed with the Norfolk Line crossings, basic but efficient and both journeys were on time unlike Seafrance in recent years. A price of £50+ plus £10 for a CL near Dover which has loos, hot water at sinks and electricity plus of course the dreaded fuel bills still make it a better bet to use Dover rather than our nearest ports of Portsmouth or Poole. We have a 6m 'van and like to use 8am ferries both ways if possible as it gives us more travelling time on the day of arrival or when making for home for the dreaded unpack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 jonmar - 2011-11-06 7:14 PM Any firm news on whether the aire at Gravelines is likely to close? We used it for the first time last year and I have to say that it was far too full for anyone to attempt to use an awning or put out chairs. Why would you want to do that? It is illegal to put out an awning or table chairs on an Aire, if yo do that it is classed as camping so you should use a camp site. The Aire at Gravelings has just been completely refurbished so I would have thought unlikely to close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 lennyhb - 2011-11-06 7:25 PM jonmar - 2011-11-06 7:14 PM Any firm news on whether the aire at Gravelines is likely to close? We used it for the first time last year and I have to say that it was far too full for anyone to attempt to use an awning or put out chairs. Why would you want to do that? It is illegal to put out an awning or table chairs on an Aire, if yo do that it is classed as camping so you should use a camp site. The Aire at Gravelings has just been completely refurbished so I would have thought unlikely to close. I use an aires near St Malo which previously was a camp site for July/August and then is for M H only. This year it is purely for MH with the only difference in July/August is the price increases by €10. Plenty of room in the bays and awning are put out and the police who patrolled made no arrests. Stayed on an aires near LaRochel and French neighbour had awning out . Local police arrived and spoke to her. Result was that the feet of the awning were moved on to the brackets fitted to the side of the MH which was then OK with police as I assume it was now part of the MH and not touching the ground. I fitted these brackets when I installed my awning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Aire singular. Aires, plural. Sorry, but I see it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 derek500 - 2011-11-06 8:19 PM Aire singular. Aires, plural. Sorry, but I see it all the time. If it is my posting you refer to I am sorry if I have upset your grammar. Thanks for providing a positive if not trivial contribution to this topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 derek500 - 2011-11-06 8:19 PM Aire singular. Aires, plural. Sorry, but I see it all the time. If it is my posting you refer to I am sorry if I have upset your grammar. Thanks for providing a positive if not trivial contribution to this topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Duplicate posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Let's see, yes I've found one, another hair to split that is...................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Over time, Brian Kirby has repeatedly emphasised the potential for UK motorcaravanners to misinterpret the French word “aire”. Essentially, an “aire” means “somewhere” and needs a descriptive suffix to specify its particular purpose. As far as motorcaravans are concerned, the “aire de services” is the most important, as this will be somewhere where a motorhome can take on fresh-water and empty waste. A basic aire de services may just consist of a water-tap and a ground-level emptying-point. It may be on private property, on a campsite, at a motorway service-station, etc. An aire de services doesn’t always have a linked parking area but, when there is parking nearby, this may comprise anything from a bare public car-park to what approximates to a campsite. If the parking is a public car-park then putting up an awning, chairs, tables, and so on, will quite likely cause problems: if it’s, say, a redeveloped campsite, or a specially built facility like this one http://campingcar-infos.com/Francais/aire.php?numid=9556&Localit%E9=HIREL then treating the parking area as if it were a ‘proper’ campsite will be perfectly OK. I don’t understand why where should be for-and-against argument about this. It’s like arguing that red wine is good and white wine is bad – some people prefer one to the other and neither is wrong. Some people are prepared to pay £200 per bottle, others no more than £5 – so what, it’s their choice. And as for quibbling over spelling – surely we should have progressed beyond that by now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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