Gaslo system Is there a downside?

[George Collings]

We have two three- four week trips on the continent and perhaps 20 nights in the every year. On the continent we use a mix of aires and sites. In summer pre refillable we only ever used a bottle in a month and always came home with the spare still full, One cold spring trip we all but ran out.

 

 

Since fittig the refillable we use more airs that use to be very cheap but are rapidly getting dearer resulting in opting for a convenient site recently if the diferential is small. We rarely use hook up saving 3-4 Euros . Never had a problem finding gas we just top up when we see one, usually once or twice a trip. The odd winter or very early spring trip when space heating in use makes the biggest savings.

 

For us it has been the best mod we have done to the van.

 

Unless you spend a lot of time in the van or lifting problems its hard to justify the cost of a refillable system.

[Clive]

Convienience is the biggest winner. If you do lots of winter sports in sub zero temperatures you need to be mindfull that Continental LPG can be a blend of Propane and Butane and at sub zero temps the Butane does not turn to gas. But for us a bulk tank wins most arguements and is our chosen way of carrying gas.

C.

 

[lennyhb]

Although slightly dearer we always try to fill up in the UK as it's 100% propane all year round. Some of you don't appear to use much gas on our French trip 22 nights in September an 11kg (20Lt) bottle lasted us 15 days we were camping up in the mountains chilly at nights. 11kg usually last 19-20 nights in summer but only 3-4 in winter. So cheap compared to exchange bottles we don't worry about it especially if you compare it with the house fuel costs.

[Brambles]

" LPG can be a blend of Propane and Butane and at sub zero temps the Butane does not turn to gas"

 

This is not actually correct Clive. As the propane % increases the vapourisation temperature is also lowered for both. Think of it as the propane molecules bouncing aound and knocking the Butane molecules about as well and out of the liquid and into the vapour phase. Not a good analogy but saves going into the theory. However despite the theory, you find as the bottle empties you do actually seem to get a higher butane ratio left in the cylinder inceasing the temperature the mix will vapourise.

So, yes, the Butane in the mix will vapourise below sub zero temperatures in a mix, the temperature being dependant on the mix ratios, but you will be left with some butane in the cylinder once it is nearly empty.

[rupert123]

lennyhb - 2011-11-11 11:04 PM

 

Although slightly dearer we always try to fill up in the UK as it's 100% propane all year round. Some of you don't appear to use much gas on our French trip 22 nights in September an 11kg (20Lt) bottle lasted us 15 days we were camping up in the mountains chilly at nights. 11kg usually last 19-20 nights in summer but only 3-4 in winter. So cheap compared to exchange bottles we don't worry about it especially if you compare it with the house fuel costs.

 

Lenny you must drink the stuff. On our last trip from 1 September, which lasted 42 nights, we used one 6kg bottle in the first 28 days, not sure about second as have not refilled yet. We to always fill up in the UK and only top up in Europe if required.

[sshortcircuit]

Tracker - 2011-11-11 8:21 PM

 

I've never used it nor do I intend to use it as I have managed perfectly well for over 35 years without the extra cost of Gaslow or similar.

 

We have 2 x 6kg Calor propane and each one lasts between 21 and 30 days, averaging 24 days, and they do vary for some unlnown reason, but as we have diesel heating and do not go abroad for more than about 6 weeks at a time we have no real need of Gaslow as we too carry an extra spare gas bottle as a backup.

 

If ever we change the van and revert to gas heating and still go abroad for more than the capacity of the two exchange bottles I might consider 1 x 6kg refillable - or I might get a French or Spanish exchange bottle instead.

 

It only seems to make sense if you use an awful lot of gas or are unable to carry a full bottle and even then finding a refill station can be nearly as difficult as finding a functioning Calor agent these days!

 

My local Calor agent will remove and refit for you if you ask nicely and you may find one local to you who is that helpful - but I doubt they all will!

 

If you have diesel heating I doubt Gaslow will save you any money, however, if you spend periods in excess of the total day range of your refillable bottle capacity one Gaslow and one Calor backup does seem to make sense

It's your money and only you can decide whether for your needs it makes sense?

H

 

"finding a refill station...". Absolutely no problems in this country and even easier in France?

 

 

 

 

[lennyhb]

rupert123 - 2011-11-11 11:18 PM

 

lennyhb - 2011-11-11 11:04 PM

 

Although slightly dearer we always try to fill up in the UK as it's 100% propane all year round. Some of you don't appear to use much gas on our French trip 22 nights in September an 11kg (20Lt) bottle lasted us 15 days we were camping up in the mountains chilly at nights. 11kg usually last 19-20 nights in summer but only 3-4 in winter. So cheap compared to exchange bottles we don't worry about it especially if you compare it with the house fuel costs.

 

Lenny you must drink the stuff. On our last trip from 1 September, which lasted 42 nights, we used one 6kg bottle in the first 28 days, not sure about second as have not refilled yet. We to always fill up in the UK and only top up in Europe if required.

 

Be honest Henry you have been known to use sites. :D

 

In 22 nights never used a hook-up and only one site (they were all closed). Most gas we use is for water heating both having a shower in the morning & sometime evening after a day walking in the mountains. Lets face it 6kw Truma heaters aren't exactly light on gas & it's surprising how much the big fridge freezers consume.

Filled up at Dover on the way out, when we refilled after the trip took 34 Lt. So the third week we used about 60% more per day than the first two weeks 2 Lt a day, at that rate an 11 kg bottle will last us 10 days.

I must admit I don't know why our gas usage was so high this year seemed like we were using the heating less but the weather was colder so I think that was an illusion had vast temperature difference this year hottest day 33 c, coldest 8 c in the same area. Previous 3 years a bottle has lasted about 20 days.

[Rayjsj]

Peter James - 2011-11-11 3:00 PM

 

slightly off topic but an underslung gas tank sounds extremely dangerous to me, especially on modern vans with low ground clearance, and debris in the road you could run over.

I refill my own 907 cylinders, but I would be terrified of the idea of an underslung gas tank 8-)

 

I wonder if Autosleeper and Murvi,who fit underslung Tanks as standard have 'tested them' I hope that they have ? 8-) Ray

 

No more dangerous than the Petrol/diesel tank surely ?

[thebishbus]

The only problems I have had, were when I tried to fill for the first time. I connected up but no gas would flow. The attendant told me that was because I had taken too long to connect up. Apparently for safety, you are only allowed 20 seconds, to remove the nozzle from the punp, and connect to the vehicle. I had to return the nozzle to the pump and start again, now I make sure that I do it quickly.

The other problem was that the one cylinder overfilled on that first fill. Gaslow told me that can happen when filling a new cylinder for the first tme. Scince then no problem at all , works well for us.

Brian B.

 

[Guest Peter James]

Rayjsj - 2011-11-12 12:25 PM

 

Peter James - 2011-11-11 3:00 PM

 

slightly off topic but an underslung gas tank sounds extremely dangerous to me, especially on modern vans with low ground clearance, and debris in the road you could run over.

I refill my own 907 cylinders, but I would be terrified of the idea of an underslung gas tank 8-)

 

I wonder if Autosleeper and Murvi,who fit underslung Tanks as standard have 'tested them' I hope that they have ? 8-) Ray

 

No more dangerous than the Petrol/diesel tank surely ?

 

Certainly a lot more flammable than diesel, and would come out a lot faster as its under high presure.

[tonyishuk]

 

I do not want to start another "gunge in the pipes" debate (Done to death in other threads)

 

BUT

 

Is there any difference in quality between bottled gas (propane/butane) and Autogas ?

 

Rgds

[Derek Uzzell]

Peter James - 2011-11-11 3:00 PM

 

slightly off topic but an underslung gas tank sounds extremely dangerous to me, especially on modern vans with low ground clearance, and debris in the road you could run over.

I refill my own 907 cylinders, but I would be terrified of the idea of an underslung gas tank 8-)

 

In the years BG (Before Gaslow), when user-refillable 'bottles' were, to all intents and purposes, unobtainable in Europe, refillable LPG reservoirs on leisure-vehicles were fixed underslung 'tanks'. I've never heard (or read) of an accident relating to such tanks caused by external damage.

 

If a leisure-vehicle has limited ground clearance, then it's plain that this fact needs to be taken into account if it's planned that an LPG tank be fitted to that vehicle. So I don't believe you need be concerned that Auto-Sleepers or Murvi will have ignored this, as providing adequate ground clearance beneath an LPG tank will be such a glaringly obvious requirement (and lack of it so obvious to a potential buyer) that they will have ensured it's always present.

 

(Would you really be "TERRIFIED of the idea of an underslung gas tank"? I could understand you having serious concerns about possible lack of ground clearance, but hardly of the basic principle involved as it has such a long motorhome-related historical background. Me, I'd be much warier (though far from terrified) of unauthorised people refilling exchange-only gas bottles than of professionally-installed underslung LPG tanks.)

[Derek Uzzell]

tonyishuk - 2011-11-12 8:13 PM

 

 

I do not want to start another "gunge in the pipes" debate (Done to death in other threads)

 

BUT

 

Is there any difference in quality between bottled gas (propane/butane) and Autogas ?

 

Rgds

 

In a word (and in principle) - No.

[Travelling Tyke]

Hello, being a tight Tyke I don't see the need for refillable systems.

 

We have had no problems with BP light weight bottles, I will admit that I was concerned about continental trips and planned to use " local" bottles if required.

[Derek Uzzell]

Travelling Tyke - 2011-11-14 9:05 PM

 

Hello, being a tight Tyke I don't see the need for refillable systems.

 

We have had no problems with BP light weight bottles, I will admit that I was concerned about continental trips and planned to use " local" bottles if required.

 

There will be particular scenarios where opting for a refillable gas-reservoir makes most sense.

 

As novice motorcaravanners we bought a Herald Templar in 1998. Almost immediately we concluded that our original plans to tour in the UK would be replaced by touring in France and it then became evident that the door of the Templar's gas-locker was not sufficiently wide to accept any French gas-bottle. So, if we ran out of gas, or a UK gas-bottle developed a fault, while we were in France, we'd have a problem. We could have chosen to use Campingaz, but there were clearly potential cold-weather limitations with that approach. The logical solution was to obtain a refillable bottle (though I later fitted a wider locker-door as a DIY exercise.)

 

One of the original selling-points for BP Gas-Light bottles in the UK was that it would, at some future stage, be possible to exchange them abroad. This has never happened.

 

I believe the hire-charge for a BP Gas-Light 10kg bottle is around £45 with a refill costing £35. Hence a 2 x 10kg-bottle system would initially cost about £160. It should eaily be possible to obtain a single-bottle refillable system for that price, which would be more versatile and offer significant refilling savings.

[derek pringle]

Rayjsj - 2011-11-12 12:25 PM

 

Peter James - 2011-11-11 3:00 PM

 

slightly off topic but an underslung gas tank sounds extremely dangerous to me, especially on modern vans with low ground clearance, and debris in the road you could run over.

I refill my own 907 cylinders, but I would be terrified of the idea of an underslung gas tank 8-)

 

I wonder if Autosleeper and Murvi,who fit underslung Tanks as standard have 'tested them' I hope that they have ? 8-) Ray

 

No more dangerous than the Petrol/diesel tank surely ?

 

Hi ,

Can anyone with one of the above vans [autosleeper and murvi] please tell me where they fit the ON/OFF controls for their factory installed bottles. Has anybody with one of these vans had any problems at the ferry or train terminal

or do you have to clamber underneath to isolate the bottle? I would be really interested in finding out

as having mobility problems the issue of turning the valve OFF with an underslung installation is proving a blocker to my even considering changing from gaslow.

cheers

derek

[rupert123]

derek pringle - 2011-11-15 11:09 AM

 

Rayjsj - 2011-11-12 12:25 PM

 

Peter James - 2011-11-11 3:00 PM

 

slightly off topic but an underslung gas tank sounds extremely dangerous to me, especially on modern vans with low ground clearance, and debris in the road you could run over.

I refill my own 907 cylinders, but I would be terrified of the idea of an underslung gas tank 8-)

 

I wonder if Autosleeper and Murvi,who fit underslung Tanks as standard have 'tested them' I hope that they have ? 8-) Ray

 

No more dangerous than the Petrol/diesel tank surely ?

 

Hi ,

Can anyone with one of the above vans [autosleeper and murvi] please tell me where they fit the ON/OFF controls for their factory installed bottles. Has anybody with one of these vans had any problems at the ferry or train terminal

or do you have to clamber underneath to isolate the bottle? I would be really interested in finding out

as having mobility problems the issue of turning the valve OFF with an underslung installation is proving a blocker to my even considering changing from gaslow.

cheers

derek

 

No experience of these vans but on the ferry no one has ever asked or checked if my bottles are turned off.

[Brian Kirby]

Maybe not, but the standard conditions of carriage always used to insist on it. Have these changed recently?

[Robinhood]

Sad man that I am I quite often go after the small print for anything I buy :-S

 

I've highlighted before (in connection with the liability limitations under the Athens Convention) that it si sometimes best to understand what you have signed up for.

 

I know for a fact that I've transgressed on Ts&Cs before on LPG carriage (I took more to Norway than was allowed by the shipping line).

 

I bet most of you transgress as well; how many of you comply fully with these conditions pulled from the current P&O Ferry site?

 

viii) On Short Sea and North Sea routes, gas with a weight of up to 47kg (excluding the weight of the gas receptacle) may be carried. On Irish Sea routes, up to 3 gas cylinders of no more than 11.2kg may be carried. All cylinders must be adequately secured against movement of the ship with the supply shut off at the cylinders during the voyage. Leaking and inadequately secured or connected cylinders will be refused shipment. Any gas cylinders to be carried must be declared at the time of booking. Partially full or empty cylinders will be treated as if they are full. A maximum of 6 cylinders of medical oxygen for personal use may be carried, provided a letter from the user's doctor is provided stating that they require medical oxygen.

 

....or is it just me? :-(

[Derek Uzzell]

derek pringle - 2011-11-15 11:09 AM

 

Rayjsj - 2011-11-12 12:25 PM

 

Peter James - 2011-11-11 3:00 PM

 

slightly off topic but an underslung gas tank sounds extremely dangerous to me, especially on modern vans with low ground clearance, and debris in the road you could run over.

I refill my own 907 cylinders, but I would be terrified of the idea of an underslung gas tank 8-)

 

I wonder if Autosleeper and Murvi,who fit underslung Tanks as standard have 'tested them' I hope that they have ? 8-) Ray

 

No more dangerous than the Petrol/diesel tank surely ?

 

Hi ,

Can anyone with one of the above vans [autosleeper and murvi] please tell me where they fit the ON/OFF controls for their factory installed bottles. Has anybody with one of these vans had any problems at the ferry or train terminal

or do you have to clamber underneath to isolate the bottle? I would be really interested in finding out

as having mobility problems the issue of turning the valve OFF with an underslung installation is proving a blocker to my even considering changing from gaslow.

cheers

derek

 

Derek

 

If you've got mobility problems, then you could well be justified in being concerned about this. An example of an underslung LPG tank is shown on

 

http://www.autogas.co.uk/caratank.htm

 

and it's evident that reaching the shut-off valve won't be easy. Presumably people with these tanks don't normally turn off the valve when the motorhome is being operated.

 

We were 'security checked' at Portsmouth in October and I was asked if I'd turned off my motorhome's gas bottles. I said "No" and, when this was queried, said that I always did this shortly before we drove on to the ferry, but, as far as I was aware, I wasn't obliged to do it before then. This view wasn't challenged. I also inquired what the purpose of the security check was in our case (this was after the area behind the cab sun-visors had been inspected) and was told that people sometimes carried unapproved weapons like lock-knifes. I said that there were cooks' knives like swords in the motorhome's cutlery drawers, but this was apparently OK.

[rupert123]

Brian Kirby - 2011-11-15 1:16 PM

 

Maybe not, but the standard conditions of carriage always used to insist on it. Have these changed recently?

 

Not that I am aware of Brian but as pointed out by someone else, who takes much notice anyway. I never turn mine off except when van is not being used or filling up with gas.

[Brian Kirby]

rupert123 - 2011-11-15 2:55 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2011-11-15 1:16 PM

 

Maybe not, but the standard conditions of carriage always used to insist on it. Have these changed recently?

 

Not that I am aware of Brian but as pointed out by someone else, who takes much notice anyway. I never turn mine off except when van is not being used or filling up with gas.

 

Well, as I expected, and as Robin des Bois has confirmed above, the standard carriage conditions require you to do so. Having read these years ago, I have always complied. On the odd occasion a deck hand has placed his hand over the fridge flue vent to check. I can understand the reasoning behind the requirement, which is why I have complied, and have no desire to be on a ferry with a fire on its car deck. Recently we have used the tunnel where, although the risk is probably lower, cylinder valves are physically checked when you book in. In the light of your comment, I think I'll stick to the tunnel (though hopefully not in it!). :-)

[Barryd999]

We have a single Gaslow bottle 11 KG and a standard Calor 6KG as backup. I did have a 13KG as backup but it seemed daft to tow around such a big backup so swapped it for the smaller one.

 

I have only needed the backup twice I think (or is it once I dunno) in two years or so. Cost £250 fitted with a side filler.

 

The only issue is if your in one place a long time and then have to drive 10 or 20 miles to a station but this is rare for us.

 

Now here is a question for the worldly wise amongst you (assuming there are some :-D ) If I plan to take the van east away from the comfort zone of France and ITaly etc and just keep going east until I either hit a war zone or run out of tarmac is there a standard 13KG bottle I could use in West and Eastern Europe (and perhaps beyond) that will serve for when we are in countries where Autogas isnt available.

 

My idea was to use the Gaslow system where possible as its brilliant and easy to top up but when I am in say an eastern European country where they might not have LPG Autogas use the interchangeable one.

 

What do the experts think to that one?

[rupert123]

Brian why do you assume that leaving gas on would cause a fire? When the deck is closed the car decks on cross channel ferries have a scouring system, mainly to clear the much greater chance of a petrol leak and resulting fumes. This would also clear any small amount of gas that leaked out. Are you seriously saying that when you book you also declare what gas you will be carrying, if so you are probably the only person in the UK who does, if not you are ignoring the booking conditions.

[Mel B]

I can't understand anyone leaving their bottled turned on, whether travelling via a ferry or Eurotunnel. It is against the 'rules' and downright dangerous.

 

Remember the Herald of Free Enterprise disaster? Yes, I know that was caused by the doors being left open, but imagine what would happen if your gas bottle developed a leak and the gas was ignighted causing a fire, explosion etc. Quite apart to the damage to your vehicle, and those nearby, not to mention any pets left in vehicles, what about the risk to those who would then have to try to tackle the fire and everyone on board ... if it couldn't be put out and spread, I hate to think what the consequences would be.

 

After any event like that, the first thing that would happen is that the cause of the fire would be investigated and no doubt found to have eminated from your vehicle ... you'd have some very serious questions to answer ... I sincerely hope you have very deep pockets and/or insurance, and are prepared for any consequence of your actions, such as being jailed etc as you would deserve it. It is one thing to take the risk for yourself, but totally unacceptable to put others at risk for no good reason.

 

Do you think it is acceptable for people to drink (over the limit) and drive? I bet you don't, and you would no doubt be totally disgusted by those that willingly do this and put lives at risk ... tell me, what's the difference between this and you leaving the gas on? You may think this is OTT, but IMV, I actually think leaving the gas on is even worse as the risk of more people being hurt is much greater and ... it is totally irresponsible.