derek pringle Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 rupert123 - 2011-11-15 1:03 PM derek pringle - 2011-11-15 11:09 AM Rayjsj - 2011-11-12 12:25 PM Peter James - 2011-11-11 3:00 PM slightly off topic but an underslung gas tank sounds extremely dangerous to me, especially on modern vans with low ground clearance, and debris in the road you could run over. I refill my own 907 cylinders, but I would be terrified of the idea of an underslung gas tank 8-) I wonder if Autosleeper and Murvi,who fit underslung Tanks as standard have 'tested them' I hope that they have ? 8-) Ray No more dangerous than the Petrol/diesel tank surely ? Hi , Can anyone with one of the above vans [autosleeper and murvi] please tell me where they fit the ON/OFF controls for their factory installed bottles. Has anybody with one of these vans had any problems at the ferry or train terminal or do you have to clamber underneath to isolate the bottle? I would be really interested in finding out as having mobility problems the issue of turning the valve OFF with an underslung installation is proving a blocker to my even considering changing from gaslow. cheers derek No experience of these vans but on the ferry no one has ever asked or checked if my bottles are turned off. Hi Rupert123 thanks for this. I do not want to hijack the thread but I have seen the pics before and obviously no chance of my managing to operate the isolation valve. Just wondered if this point was pointed out to purchasers of these vans. Every time we have used the ferry or train an appointee of the company has always physically checked the valve was closed,great for safety and I support the check. I would not like to send my wife under the van to carry out the job so we are where we are. Wonder if anybody affected has any acual experience. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 rupert123 - 2011-11-15 6:04 PM Brian why do you assume that leaving gas on would cause a fire? When the deck is closed the car decks on cross channel ferries have a scouring system, mainly to clear the much greater chance of a petrol leak and resulting fumes. This would also clear any small amount of gas that leaked out. Are you seriously saying that when you book you also declare what gas you will be carrying, if so you are probably the only person in the UK who does, if not you are ignoring the booking conditions. Rupert, you sneaked in between me and Barry! :D It is against the rules, whether or not you think it is okay to do it is another matter, I'm no expert but if I'm told to do something like this, especially from a safety point of view, I'll make sure I comply. You may believe the chance is less than a petrol leak, but there is still the risk, so why take it just for the sake of it???? I haven't booked a ferry for a while now, but if I did I would certainly let them know of the gas I was carrying if that was a requirement when makingn the booking, and ensure that it was turned off at the port, regardless of whether they checked it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Barryd999 - 2011-11-15 5:19 PM ...Now here is a question for the worldly wise amongst you (assuming there are some :-D ) If I plan to take the van east away from the comfort zone of France and ITaly etc and just keep going east until I either hit a war zone or run out of tarmac is there a standard 13KG bottle I could use in West and Eastern Europe (and perhaps beyond) that will serve for when we are in countries where Autogas isnt available. My idea was to use the Gaslow system where possible as its brilliant and easy to top up but when I am in say an eastern European country where they might not have LPG Autogas use the interchangeable one. What do the experts think to that one? As far as I'm aware there is no exchangeable LPG container (other than the Campingaz products) that you could obtain in Western Europe and have a reasonable expectation of being able to exchange in Eastern Europe or beyond (or vice versa). You might get some mild bottle cross-over from one country to its neighbours, but that's it. If you go where there's no autogas, you'll need to use a 'native' bottle and, if you move to another country where there's still no autogas, then you'll have to use another, different bottle that's native to the new country. If there had been a gas-bottle that could easily be exchanged anywhere one went, it's likely that user-refillable bottles would had been a lot slower gaining popularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 If somebody tells me I must do something, and there's not only no good reason not to do it but I can understand the thinking behind the 'command' and appreciate how it might benefit me, and it costs me no effort or cost to comply with the command, then I'll do as I've been asked. Following those criteria I always turn off my motorhome's gas-bottles before going on a ferry. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 We have had a 11k Alugas bottle fitted this year by Dave Newel, and with the Campinggaz as a backup:D............it seems like the perfect set up for us, as we have doubled our gas capacity, coupled with the knowledge that we should be able to get gas anywhere now;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I too always turn the gas bottles off before boarding a ferry. Bit of a no brainer really to take sensible effortless and simple syeps to avoid gas lying at low level on a sealed car deck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 The instruction to turn the gas off for P&O Ferries specifies caravans and makes no reference to MHs, so is it applicable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 sshortcircuit - 2011-11-15 7:18 PM The instruction to turn the gas off for P&O Ferries specifies caravans and makes no reference to MHs, so is it applicable? You are joking of course 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 sshortcircuit - 2011-11-15 7:18 PM The instruction to turn the gas off for P&O Ferries specifies caravans and makes no reference to MHs, so is it applicable? .....not quite sure where you got that from. :-S The extract I've published above is from the contractual terms and conditions, and is not specific to any kind of vehicle. Moreover, the FAQ page paraphrases it slightly, and makes it even more applicable: Carriage of Gas Propane or Butane with a weight of up to 47kg (excluding the weight of the gas receptacle) may be carried. The cylinders may only be carried in vehicles where the gas is used solely in connection with its operation or business, i.e. caravans, mobile homes, boats, hot air balloonists (in the basket) and the cylinders can be adequately secured against movement of the ship. All cylinders must be adequately secured against movement of the ship with the supply shut off at the cylinders during the voyage. Leaking and inadequately secured or connected cylinders will be refused shipment. Any gas cylinders to be carried must be declared at the time of booking. Partially full or empty cylinders will be treated as if they are full. A maximum of 6 cylinders of medical oxygen for personal use may be carried, provided a letter from the user's doctor is provided stating that they require medical oxygen. ....and for mobile homes, I would read motorcaravans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 As printed on the boarding pass with no reference to motorhome, motorcaravan(?) or campingcar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 sshortcircuit - 2011-11-15 7:49 PM As printed on the boarding pass with no reference to motorhome, motorcaravan(?) or campingcar. ... when your cylinder leaks and you set the ferry on fire, can I be a fly on the wall when the 'powers that be' are interviewing you ... I'd really love to hear you use that defence!!!! 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 sshortcircuit - 2011-11-15 7:49 PM As printed on the boarding pass with no reference to motorhome, motorcaravan(?) or campingcar. ....interesting, though such a document would only act as a reminder, not a contractual duty as the Ts&Cs do. Incidentally, do you mean the "lane" card you're supposed to display on the rear-view mirror mount? For a good few years that's all I've ever received at check-in - haven't had boarding cards issued for some time. BTW, the Seafrance (RIP?) FAQ is even more restrictive: Do you ship vehicles which run on Liquified Petroleum Gas (LPG)? Vehicles converted to LPG or camper vans carrying LPG cylinders are accepted for shipment onboard our ferries. Please note, vehicles are limited to carrying one LPG cylinder and must isolate it during the crossing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Mel B - 2011-11-15 7:58 PM sshortcircuit - 2011-11-15 7:49 PM As printed on the boarding pass with no reference to motorhome, motorcaravan(?) or campingcar. ... when your cylinder leaks and you set the ferry on fire, can I be a fly on the wall when the 'powers that be' are interviewing you ... I'd really love to hear you use that defence!!!! 8-) As usual Mel you jump to the wrong conclusion. I only reported the facts as I read on the boarding pass and passed no opinions. If the perceived risk of possible leaking gas was a high danger I would assume that the authorities concerned would at least ask the question before boarding. In addition ferries have all the safety detectors below the decks which as far as I could see we're not sealed containers. Returning to the OP another advantage of Gaslow systems are they are not subjected to the constant taking apart and reassembling that changing bottles have, which does present a possibility of leaking gas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 rupert123 - 2011-11-15 6:04 PM Brian why do you assume that leaving gas on would cause a fire? When the deck is closed the car decks on cross channel ferries have a scouring system, mainly to clear the much greater chance of a petrol leak and resulting fumes. This would also clear any small amount of gas that leaked out. Are you seriously saying that when you book you also declare what gas you will be carrying, if so you are probably the only person in the UK who does, if not you are ignoring the booking conditions. Yes, I spotted that flaw in what I had written, but too late to change it! :-) Many vans today have AES fridges that will switch automatically to gas when it is the only energy source and the 'stat demands cooling. Then, they will fire up. The risk, under those circumstances, if there were a petrol leak from another vehicle, or merely an accumulation of vapour, is ignition of the vapour at the fridge burner, or possibly in the flue. Yes, the ship's ventilation system should scavenge, but scavenging only works effectively at close quarters, at locations remote from the intakes the flow is very sluggish. My second reason is that should the above happen, the fire is likely to affect the motorhome, and that will be carrying at least one gas cylinder with its supply cock open, and only a rubber hose between the fire and the rest of the gas. Again, the ship will have fire suppression equipment and alarms, but suppression is unlikely to affect a fire inside the van, which is where it is likely to be, and is also where the main risk to the cylinder pigtail lies. I'm sure these risks are small, but the act of turning off a cylinder is so infinitesimal compared to being hove to in mid channel while some poor sap tries to fight a car deck fire that I prefer to eliminate the risk, rather than rely on somewhat unreliable machinery to ameliorate it. Besides, I just want to get on, and off, with minimal fuss and delay, and be on my way. So, anything that reduces the possibility of delay, or worse, gets my vote. As to the booking conditions, certainly as far as the tunnel is concerned you do have to declare your vehicle as a "campervan" and, from memory, that it will have gas on board. Surely no-one tries to pretend otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Robinhood - 2011-11-15 7:42 PM............................................. Carriage of Gas Propane or Butane with a weight of up to 47kg (excluding the weight of the gas receptacle) may be carried. The cylinders may only be carried in vehicles where the gas is used solely in connection with its operation or business, .....................................hot air balloonists (in the basket) .........................QUOTE] Must confess I have yet to see a hot air balloon drifting down a car deck, but hey, these are seriously big ferries! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 sshortcircuit - 2011-11-15 7:18 PM The instruction to turn the gas off for P&O Ferries specifies caravans and makes no reference to MHs, so is it applicable? Is this a legal question, or one pertaining to common sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Not on topic but can anyone answer this question please. We are going to valencia in spain in february for a month and have 2 x13 Kg calor propane bottles on board, will this be enough for the trip. We will have hook up as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 peter - 2011-11-15 9:22 PM Not on topic but can anyone answer this question please. We are going to valencia in spain in february for a month and have 2 x13 Kg calor propane bottles on board, will this be enough for the trip. We will have hook up as well. .... how long is a piece of string? However, with general use of a hook-up, and some overnight use of Aires/Stellplatze, I've never manged to use even 6kg in getting on for three weeks (mainly cooking, and including an oven). The main issue will be how many times you want to use gas for heating - if the answer is irregularly, then I reckon you'll be bringing quite a lot back. edit to clarify, given Brian's note following. My latest and previous van have both had Truma electric-capable heaters (C6002EH & Combi6E respectively). These have been entirely capable of maintainig decent temperatures on electric heating only (once up to temperature, and even in sub-zero conditions). I rather assumed Peter would be mainly utilising electric heating, but did pose the question of how much heating on gas he would do. I still think (if electric is available) our pattern of use would not exceed 2*13kg in the time stated - but if it got iffy, I'd simply buy a local bottle and pigtail as an emergency measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Brian Kirby - 2011-11-15 9:12 PM Robinhood - 2011-11-15 7:42 PM............................................. Carriage of Gas Propane or Butane with a weight of up to 47kg (excluding the weight of the gas receptacle) may be carried. The cylinders may only be carried in vehicles where the gas is used solely in connection with its operation or business, .....................................hot air balloonists (in the basket) ......................... Must confess I have yet to see a hot air balloon drifting down a car deck, but hey, these are seriously big ferries! :-D .....well I don't write the stuff you know *-) My drafting was always better than that (though if the idea of hot-air balloons had occurred to me, I would probably have included it as a catch-all). :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Potentially borderline, I'd say, Peter. You have a largish, but well insulated, van that will nevertheless take a fair amount of energy to keep warm. Valencia itself shouldn't be too much of a problem, but you've to negotiate a fair chunk of cold UK, another of possibly colder France, and potentially - depending on final route - cold inland Spain, and then do it all again to come back. So, going down fine, but if cold, heavy on gas, especially if using aires. Valencia probably fine also, but you'll flirt with disaster on your way home. Ultimate is probably one refillable with a discreet external fill point. Run off that, keep it well topped up, and keep one Calor as reserve. Alternative two, and cheaper, will be to see how you go, and look for a Spanish, of French, 13kg cylinder if necessary. Don't know about the Spanish connectors but, if you have a bulkhead mounted regulator, all you'll need to take for France is a UK butane pigtail of appropriate length. This will connect to a French propane cylinder, and all you'll need do is swap this with one of the UK propane pigtails. You should find the French 13kg cheaper than Calor, and available at almost any French supermarket. I'd say go for Butagaz, simply because it seems to have the widest availability. The propane is painted half silver (top) and half pale silvery-blue (bottom), butane all pale silvery-blue. These are steel, slightly shorter than Calor (because the valve shroud has to be unscrewed to connect), and very slightly smaller diameter, so will easily fit in lieu of the Calor. Probably exactly what your gas locker was designed to take! Alternative three, carry a spare 13Kg Calor but, IMO, that's a bit OTT and will take space and 26kg (20-24 bottles! :-)) off your payload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Hi, Surely it can't just be me. Consistantly over the last two years, the Tunnel check is just before lane number direction, and DFDS was a sideline job to a drive through area where ALL caravans and motorhomes were being checked by officials. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 peter - 2011-11-15 9:22 PM Not on topic but can anyone answer this question please. We are going to valencia in spain in february for a month and have 2 x13 Kg calor propane bottles on board, will this be enough for the trip. We will have hook up as well. If you have other means of heating (electrikery off the hook up) I would say you will bring some gas back with you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 sshortcircuit - 2011-11-15 8:11 PM Mel B - 2011-11-15 7:58 PM sshortcircuit - 2011-11-15 7:49 PM As printed on the boarding pass with no reference to motorhome, motorcaravan(?) or campingcar. ... when your cylinder leaks and you set the ferry on fire, can I be a fly on the wall when the 'powers that be' are interviewing you ... I'd really love to hear you use that defence!!!! 8-) As usual Mel you jump to the wrong conclusion. Eh???? Where did that come from?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Mel B - 2011-11-16 8:02 PM sshortcircuit - 2011-11-15 8:11 PM Mel B - 2011-11-15 7:58 PM sshortcircuit - 2011-11-15 7:49 PM As printed on the boarding pass with no reference to motorhome, motorcaravan(?) or campingcar. 8 ... when your cylinder leaks and you set the ferry on fire, can I be a fly on the wall when the 'powers that be' are interviewing you ... I'd really love to hear you use that defence!!!! 8-) As usual Mel you jump to the wrong conclusion. Eh???? Where did that come from?????? Don't you read the posting and do you not retract when you incorrectly post and it would be more accurate if you quoted me in full? "As usual Mel you jump to the wrong conclusion. I only reported the facts as I read on the boarding pass and passed no opinions." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 sshortcircuit I understand from your earlier posting that a P&O boarding-pass states that the gas-bottles in a "caravan" must be turned off while the caravan is in transit on a ferry. If someone is travelling in a vehicle defined in its registration document as a "motor caravan" (which I assume will be true in your case), what possible justification can there be to suggest that the boarding-pass statement does not apply to that vehicle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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