Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Derek Uzzell - 2011-11-27 9:39 AM Mel B - 2011-11-26 6:24 PM Today I saw a double-decker bus which 'advertised' the fact that it was a duel fuel one, running on diesel and gas, so there must be some benefit in it otherwise why would they do it? A few links that may interest: http://www.go-lpg.co.uk/diesel.html http://www.chilterngascars.co.uk/cars/lpgdiesel.htm http://www.iwemalpg.com/Diesel_LPG.htm (GOOGLE on "diesel lpg" for plenty more) Having looked at the links it seems fairly obvious this did not get of the ground commercially, one site mentioning being able to supply a system in 2001 and quotes vehicles of 1990 vintage ,but no further up to date information, one even stated it was a dead duck as a viable option I quote . ! ! :-S Above it has been shown that niether true conversion of a Diesel engine nor the mixing (Dual fuelling, Fumigation) of LPG with Diesel give economic benefits large enough to make either choice worthwhile for the average motorist. With current LPG and Diesel technology as it stands, it would be more economical to simply remove the Diesel engine and fit a Petrol equivalent, which answers our original question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Mel B - 2011-11-26 6:24 PM Today I saw a double-decker bus which 'advertised' the fact that it was a duel fuel one, running on diesel and gas, so there must be some benefit in it otherwise why would they do it? AIUI, the conversion to, or OE fitment of, dual-fuel running on buses is more to do with overall green credentials than outright fuel efficiency. Injecting a proportion of Bio-methane into the mix can significantly reduce CO2 and particulate emissions, whilst still maintaning a decent power output for the size/type of engine. Optare, for instance, are one of the main UK bus builders to use this technology, and don't claim fuel-efficiency, but do claim the "Green" bits, viz: Dual fuel Engine efficiency same as diesel installation retains existing diesel engine Gas conversion to dual fuel bio-methane OE from new, or retrofit to existing vehicles Rapid rate gas filling Reduced emissions, over 50% saving on CO2 Eligible for UK "Green bus Grant" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Think of it this way. The longer you stay away in the van the cheaper it becomes. If I go to the Lakes for a weekend it will probably cost me £30 - £40 in diesel. If I stay for a week its still about the same. So the answer is just take longer breaks and enjoy the van even more!!! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasher Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Have to agree with Barry999 ,we are on the state pension(pittance) but if we go away in the van for a week, site cost £56 plus diesel. We can cover this cost with the pension, plus we save on electric gas water etc we would use if we stayed at home. SIMPLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tuckley Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 On the price of diesel, About three weeks ago I checked the price of crude at $70 a barrel. It went up to its present prices when it was $134 a barrel - What happened to the reduction. Just another case of Ripoff Britain I am afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postnote Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-11-27 5:04 AM postnote - 2011-11-27 12:10 AM Moan, moan, where do you think the money comes from to pay the benefit cheats, child allowance for teenage girls, job seekers allowance (hahaha) and all the foreigners that come into UK with no intention of working…Trees!! No from taxes, one of the biggest contributors are the others you moan about, smokers, but most off fuel tax paid by both the North Sea oil producers and us at the pump. Let’s get to the root of the problem… benefit cheats, child allowance for teenage girls, job seekers allowance (hahaha) and all the foreigners. Maybe then our taxes would come down. And don’t get on the banking case.. Not to mention the 18.5 BILLION paid into the EU last year, estimated at £730 per year for every household, that would buy a fair bit of diesel. I'm anti EU, We once traded with the world and profitted before we tied our hands to Europe. Let's show Britain is still a great trading partner, let's go worldwide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 paulmold - 2011-11-26 4:16 PM .............which by virtue of the fact it is cheaper to produce, it shouldn't) then the VAT would be lower. As I understand it this is in fact incorrect, Deisel USED to be cheaper to produce but due to the Eco requirements to reduce sulpher the processes it now has to go through make it more expensive to produce, this is why in France you can sometimes buy a cheaper Deisel that has not had 'the treatment' as well as the normal diesel we would buy. postnote - 2011-11-27 7:52 PM I'm anti EU, We once traded with the world and profitted before we tied our hands to Europe. Let's show Britain is still a great trading partner, let's go worldwide. We do still trade with the rest of the world with whom we are in surplus i.e. we trade at a profit. 60% of our trade is with the rest of the world, it is a myth that the EU is our largest trading partner, this is an oft used statement by the Euro lovers that omits the word SINGLE i.e. the EU is our SINGLE largest trading partner. Even that is a twist as the EU is treated as a block rather than seperate countries so really individually the single countries are small fry compared to the rest of the world. However the trade with the EU is at a massive deficit that is some £12Bn MORE than our National Balance of Payments deficit i.e. if we did not trade with Europe we would be in profit with our balance of payments. And we have to pay into the club at a minimum of £7million per day for the privilage!!! Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgas Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Getting back to the subject, fuel costs. Fuel on the Isle of Man is about 9p/litre more than on the mainland. However, the Isle of Man is not in the EU, has virtually zero unemployment, zero crime, hardly anything in the way of income tax, no capital gains tax, no (you name the tax, they don't have it, except VAT). Old Age Pension is UK pension plus 50% so pensioners run new cars, go on foreign holidays and don't complain when their boiler needs repairing. No hospital waiting lists. No National Debt. So that tiny little Island is £380 trillion (I think, correct me if I am wrong) better off than the UK. It is written into the constitution that they cannot have a budget deficit - if they don't collect tax, they will not spend it. What a strange idea. No illegal immigrants - you want to live here? OK, be a hotel waiter for 5 years on minimum wage, then we will give you your passport back, and you are aware aren't you, that you cannot claim any Social Security Benefits until you have PAID IN to the system for 5 years. On topic again, you could halve your fuel costs if you like, by buying a petrol engined camper (if you can find one) and convert it to run on LPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I'm surprised nobody has mentioned veg oil......or is that a taboo subject? (lol) As long as you have the 'right' pump a diesel engine will run on used veg oil. My previous van which was an old Transit with direct injection (non-turbo) and ran perfectly on a 50/50 mix without any problem at all. Can't run my current van on veg oil as it's turbo and has the 'wrong' type of pump. :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Ahhhh! but you could process the Veg oil and make bio diesel ...just made another batch today for my own use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Basically what mine used to run on though I found if running at 100% once the engine got hot there was a distinct aroma of Fish 'n Chips! I didn't make the stuff, I used to buy it off a guy who was on that 'other forum'. Must admit I was a bit hesitant at first but it was an old direct injection Transit diesel engine......crude 'agricultural' lumps but solidly built (unlike the body panels!), which would probably have run on pig dung! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuxDeluxe Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Basil - 2011-11-28 5:31 PM As I understand it this is in fact incorrect, Deisel USED to be cheaper to produce but due to the Eco requirements to reduce sulpher the processes it now has to go through make it more expensive to produce, this is why in France you can sometimes buy a cheaper Deisel that has not had 'the treatment' as well as the normal diesel we would Bas Just to add to that - much of the varying difference is due to supply and demand in the market, such as the USA winter heating oil season, which pushes up middle distillate pricing. All road fuel in Europe must meet EN590 for diesel and is all ultra low sulphur in content; diesel is cheaper in France due to lower tax but that is being eroded. The sulphur content of gasoline is also in the ultra low category (can't remember the exact spec at the moment). Hope that helps a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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