Trickle charging battery on 2010 Ford Auto Roller 200

[TJK]

My engine is run about 10 miles every 2 weeks but still the engine battery seems low. When starting from cold I get clicking noise and it only just seems to start. Control panel inside shows level of starter battery is 2 out of possible 3 on panel. As the mains charger only charges the leisure battery, I would like to trickle charge the vehicle battery wih a 0.2 amp dc Trickle charger via the connection under the bonnet for jump starting as the vehicle battery is under the seat and cannot be accessed easily. The charger instructions say "disconnect the battery before commencing charging as damage to the alternator could occur" but I can not access the battery under the seat and I don't want to loose battery power for fear of upsetting the engine management system and furthermore I can't see that such a low charge would hurt the alternator. Can anyone advise me if this would cause any damage to the alternator if I didn't disconnect the battery? Incidently, how do you take the engine battery out from under the seat, I have a swivel seat fitted and the instruction manual seems to relate to a normal van type seat. Any comments would be appreciated.

[Brian Kirby]

To access the starter battery on a Transit where a swivel has been fitted, one has to remove the whole seat, including swivel and runners, by unscrewing the hex drive machine screws holding the seat mounting plate onto the seat base. It is quite heavy to lift, and it is a good idea to use a dustsheet on the van floor to park the unit once unscrewed, as the seat runners and the swivel may be a bit greasy.

Can't answer re the charging.

[Brambles]

Re charging , it should be fine to charge the way you say with a trickle charger as long as the voltage is limited to no more than 14.7 volts. The problem arises when people put boost chargers on or chargers capable of applying a higher voltage. If the battery is duff and cannot drag the voltage down then the management system or alternator can see the full voltage the charger can deliver. Most modern battery chargers are voltage limited so make sure your trickle charger is. Also the alternator output can see a higher voltage and may shunt it to the chassis and overheat the regulators and protection devices. A 200 ma trickle charge is not going to raise the voltage much beyond 13.8 volts if even 13.8 volts.

[Derek Uzzell]

My Transit-based motorhome no longer has a driver's-seat swivel, so I can access the starter-battery to check its charge state and electrolyte levels. I can also attach a battery-charger to the starter-battery and, in the past, have done so.

 

When I've used that charging method I have not disconnected the starter-battery, though i have made sure that there's no current-demand on the battery except for the normal demand needed to maintain the radio code, Ford electronics, etc. I've also ensured that the vehicle is not hooked up to a 230V power-supply and that its on-board charger and living-area services are all switched off. Some of these measures may be overkill (perhaps even illogical) but it's what I've done.

 

Charging the battery via the under-bonnet jump-start connections is no different, in principle, to what I've done and - as long as you are careful and follow Brambles's advice - should present no problems or cause damage.

 

There is a caveat. Before I charge my Transit's starter-battery I will have checked that its electrolyte levels are correct. That check cannot be carried out unless the seat + swivel is removed, so there's always the chance that your battery's electrolyte levels will be too low. As seat-removal will not be part of a standard Ford service, the likelihood is high that (unless you check the electrolyte levels yourself) the levels will never get checked. Having said that, I've never found a need to top up my 2005 Transit's starter-battery, so regular checking may be unnecessary. How lucky do you feel?

[cronkle]

From what you write you seem to be able to leave your 'van on hook-up. If I am right you might want to look at Clive's Mott's site at:

 

http://www.motts.org/BRIDGING%20FUSE.htm

 

which shows one of the simplest ways round your problem.

 

More convenient to some, including me, is a Battery Master or something similar. These can be found here.

 

http://www.vanbitz.com/category/Battery_Master,i.html

[Robinhood]

Be aware that on the current Transit, some base vehicles are supplied as standard with two vehicle batteries, connected via an isolation switch. (full range info is difficult to come by, but I believe it was installed as standard in (some?) rear-wheel drive, and as an option on all other chassis).

 

One battery is used only for starting, and is placed in circuit whilst the engine is running, and is isolated at other times. Hence, whilst the engine is not running, one battery is fully isolated, and in theory should not be discharged by any vehicle auxiliary electrics. The theory being that there should always be sufficient power to start, even if you have been using the vehicle electrics with the ignition off.

 

If you have this system fitted, then it itself may be causing further complication, and, if perchance the "starter" battery is run down somewhat, it may be that you will have ot connect directly to the battery terminals to recharge (as, in theory, it will be isolated from the electrics if the engine isn't running).

 

The above refers to the vehicle electrics only, and is entirely independent of any leisure battery and circuitry which has been fitted.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

It's fairly common for Transits (not just the Mk 7) to have more than one battery as standard and I believe chassis designed for conversion into ambulances could have four.

 

My 2003 Transit Mk 6 Ford brochure shows that twin batteries were standard on all minibus variants and (except for Tourneos) optional on all other models. However, I don't know whether this arrangement merely boosted overall battery capacity or provided separate starting & accessories feeds.

 

There are threads on the Ford Transit forum about twin/dual batteries, but I'm not sure whether they will help here.

[Robinhood]

Extract from Mk7 Transit Chassis Cab brochure attached. (Ford dub it the "always start" feature).

[TJK]

thanks for all your info re above.i have looked under the drivers seat and it seems there is only 1 battery there so where else would the second battery be housed if indeed it did have one. ford info very vague and says that all chassis cabs have got dual batteries then somewhere else says its an option on rear wheel drive models and somebody else says it depends on the converter and what country the vehicle was built. very confused. any opinions would be appreciated.

[Robinhood]

If it has twin vehicle batteries (the "always start" system), AFAIK they are fitted one behind the other under the driver's seat.

[cronkle]

TJK - 2011-12-05 5:04 PM

 

thanks for all your info re above.i have looked under the drivers seat and it seems there is only 1 battery there so where else would the second battery be housed if indeed it did have one. ford info very vague and says that all chassis cabs have got dual batteries then somewhere else says its an option on rear wheel drive models and somebody else says it depends on the converter and what country the vehicle was built. very confused. any opinions would be appreciated.

 

My Autoroller has only one battery. It is a mk7 as well. There was a post on one of the lists recently that said that the front wheel drive versions had the single battery version and rear wheel drive had the double as standard but I don't know the source of the information.

 

Edit: I've just had a look here http://www.ford.co.uk/SBE/ConfigureYourVehicle/ConfigureyourVan/p=1204996775326 and it appears that the double battery is an extra £60.

[Derek Uzzell]

TJK - 2011-12-05 5:04 PM

 

thanks for all your info re above.i have looked under the drivers seat and it seems there is only 1 battery there so where else would the second battery be housed if indeed it did have one. ford info very vague and says that all chassis cabs have got dual batteries then somewhere else says its an option on rear wheel drive models and somebody else says it depends on the converter and what country the vehicle was built. very confused. any opinions would be appreciated.

 

Ford's current English-language Transit-related website relates to the latest UK range with Euro 5 motors. It isn't necessarily accurate and there's no certainty that the information on it will 100% apply to Transits destined for conversion outside the UK into motorhomes.

 

Regarding Transit Mk 7 standard/optional twin-battery systems, both batteries will always be housed beneath the driver's seat. This is because a) it's convenient and logical to have the pair of batteries adjacent to each other and b) the design of the (optiona) two-person passenger seat would leave any battery housed beneath it completely exposed.

 

Having looked at my Haynes Transit Mk 6 manual, all the wiring diagrams show twin batteries, but those batteries are simply connected in parallel to provide an increased overall capacity. So it's fair to assume that the Ford arrangement of one battery dedicated to starting and a 2nd for ancilliaries only applies to Mk 7s and (possibly) only after a certain model-year. I've looked at Brabander's postings about his Globecar Trendscout and noted that, although he is not specific about his motorhome's date of birth, he does say that he has owned it a few years. He also states that the Transit 1 + 1 battery set-up is unique to UK and Ireland.

 

As far as I can see, whether one has a Transit Mk 6 or Mk 7 with a single vehicle-battery, or two vehicle-batteries parallel-connected, or the 1 + 1 battery arrangement, if you connect a battery-charger to the under-bonnet jump-start connections you will automatically be charging the battery/batteries that start the vehicle - which is what TJK was asking about in the first place.

 

Assuming that Brabander is correct about the 1 + 1 battery arrangement being unique to UK/Ireland-marketed Transits (and there seems to be no mention of it on the chassis-cab part of the French Ford website), then one might reasonably expect RHD Mk 7 Transit-based motorhomes to have it. However, the Transit FWD 'motorhome' chassis (platform-cab or chasis-cab format) that's most used for Ford-based motorhomes nowadays is a specialised product not available for retail purchase and converters are in a position to specify what options will be factory-fitted before the chassis is provided to them for conversion into a coachbuilt motorhome. A single battery saves weight and cost, so it wouldn't surprise me if all FWD Transit-based coachbuilt motorhomes come with a single 'vehicle-battery' beneath the driver's seat.

[ips]

For your information my 09 transit has only got one cab battery under the seat.

[cronkle]

Derek Uzzell - 2011-12-06 8:45 AM

 

TJK - 2011-12-05 5:04 PM

However, the Transit FWD 'motorhome' chassis (platform-cab or chasis-cab format) that's most used for Ford-based motorhomes nowadays is a specialised product not available for retail purchase and converters are in a position to specify what options will be factory-fitted before the chassis is provided to them for conversion into a coachbuilt motorhome.

 

Interestingly though (well to me anyhow and sorry for this being a bit off-topic) according to the Ford Etis(.?) web site my vehicle started life as a panel van and had most of the bodywork removed by the converter. I was expecting to find that it was a chassis/cab version but when I checked the wheelbase it was on a 330 chassis which at that time was only available as a panel van.

[Derek Uzzell]

cronkle - 2011-12-06 5:15 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2011-12-06 8:45 AM

 

TJK - 2011-12-05 5:04 PM

However, the Transit FWD 'motorhome' chassis (platform-cab or chasis-cab format) that's most used for Ford-based motorhomes nowadays is a specialised product not available for retail purchase and converters are in a position to specify what options will be factory-fitted before the chassis is provided to them for conversion into a coachbuilt motorhome.

 

Interestingly though (well to me anyhow and sorry for this being a bit off-topic) according to the Ford Etis(.?) web site my vehicle started life as a panel van and had most of the bodywork removed by the converter. I was expecting to find that it was a chassis/cab version but when I checked the wheelbase it was on a 330 chassis which at that time was only available as a panel van.

 

That's essentially the case - FWD Transit-based coachbuilt motorhomes began to be marketed in mid-2004 built on medium-wheelbase (3.30m) or long-wheelbase (3.75m) platform-cab chassis that are recorded in the FordEtis database as heavily-modified panel-vans. The converter doesn't remove the bodywork - the chassis is constructed in the Ford factory with no body panels to the rear of the cab.

 

A motorcaravan-specific FWD Transit chassis-cab was exhibited at the 2010 Dusseldorf Show and motorhomes based on it began to be offered at the end of that year. The wheelbases available are 3.30m, 3.75m or 3.95m. The rear track is normally wider than the front, but a narrower track can be specified if the motorhome manufacturer wishes to build a 'skinny' design. For example, Hymer "Vans" are now built on chassis-cab underpinnings, but have the narrow-track rear axle (otherwise the rear wheels would stick out from the body sides!)

 

Photos of 2012 Transit-based Hobbys show the rear wheels still well inset, so the platform-cab chassis may still be available to converters.

[Mel B]

Our 2010 FWD Ford Chasson Flash 04 (not the bespoke 'motorhome' chassis) only has one 'engine' battery under the driver's seat, there is a habitation battery under the passenge seat.

[Derek Uzzell]

Mel B - 2011-12-06 11:02 PM

 

Our 2010 FWD Ford Chasson Flash 04 (not the bespoke 'motorhome' chassis) only has one 'engine' battery under the driver's seat, there is a habitation battery under the passenge seat.

 

I'm going to quibble... ;-)

 

Your 2010 Flash 04 IS built on a bespoke Transit 'motorhome' chassis, except it's the platform-cab bespoke Transit motorhome chassis used for FWD coachbuilt motorhomes from 2004-onwards, rather than the 'ladder type' chassis-cab bespoke Transit motorhome chassis that became available towards the end of 2010.

 

Unlike, say, the latest Renault Master, where platform-cab chassis are generally available to vehicle converters and, in France, seem to be the chassis of choice for most compact horse-transporters, I don't think the Transit platform-cab chassis has ever been employed for anything other than motorhomes.

[TJK]

Thanks for all info on twin batteries. Very interesting and answers my questions. One other question i want to ask re my original problem of charging my engine battery. Having taken the van for a 50 mile run the engine battery seems to have recharged itself more and i had no trouble in starting again the next day. However the inside control panel still only records a charge of 2 out of a possible 3 apart from when the engine is running when it records 3 as the alternator is working. After leaving for 24 hours can anyone tell me if the control panel on a fully charged engine battery on a ford autoroller would read 3 as i have never seen mine reading 3 since buying the van. Incidenally the leisure battery does record 3 after leaving for 24 hours. Perhaps Cronkle might be able to answer as being the owner of a autoroller. Many thanks.

[cronkle]

Before I put the battery master in I found that the vehicle battery indicator very quickly dropped to two green lights after the engine was turned off and there was enough power to start it again. It did once drop to one green light and the vehicle did all the clicking and failure to start that you described. That's when the battery master was installed and since then I have always had three green lights and no starting problems.

Good luck with solving your problem.

[terryW]

I think it may be wise to look further into why the battery is low when driven every two weeks.

 

I have an autoroller on a Fiat base and the panel shows 2 lights out of three most of the time and never gives me starting problems. My last vehicle was a Ford PVC (57) and that always started after months of being sat on the driveway without charge.

 

I wouldn't be concerned that you only have two lights on the panel that may be confusing the issue.

[TJK]

Thanks to Cronkle and Terry for info and advice.

[Derek Uzzell]

It SHOULD be possible to monitor the charge-state of the vehicle-battery by taking voltmeter readings via the under-bonnet jump-start connector and a nearby earthing point. ("SHOULD" means I haven't tried it, but I don't see why it shouldn't work.)

 

If there is an unusually high drain on the battery when the vehicle is standing idle (or the battery is failing to hold charge), this should become apparent from the reduction in charge-state over time. As there will be some continuous drain on the vehicle-battery to maintain the vehicle's basic electronics, voltmeter readings taken with the battery connected will tend to be pessimistic, but they may still be useful. Readings should only be taken after the battery has been allowed to 'settle' for at least 4 hours after the motorhome has been driven.