Coach Built as opposed to panel vans

[colin]

Poppy - 2011-12-09 8:38 AM

 

Well I ask because we have a Hobby Van (coachbuilt).We like it very much BUT the lounge area, while good in this type of layout (fixed transverse bed and garage) isn't particularly good if you have to sit in due to bad weather etc.Also the kitchen is a little cramped.Enter an IH panel van.The right length for us as due to parking restrictions we can only have 6.5 metres MAX.The IH is 6.3 metres, has a lovely lounge, brilliant kitchen AND crucially a BOOT for outdoor storage.We are thinking of changing 2012/2013.My husband though, is not sure of the idea of a panel van.It feels spacious inside despite being slightly narrower than our coachbuilt.

 

Nice vans, they do tend to have more space taken up by galley and bathroom than some which is why it's built on L4 chassis but only have same size lounge as some get on the L3 chassis.

Now we have a PVC which is more like the layout of your Hobby, but gf likes to lounge on fixed bed, so space is never an issue, be aware that if you go for rear lounge unless both go to bed and rise at same time one will end up in a small cab whilst other is in bed.

 

p.s. nearly forgot to add, IMO ride is not as good with L4 chassis as with L3 3.5t light chassis.

[Guest Tracker]

The original question was comparing pvc and coachbuilt at the same price and good as IH vans may be am I right in thinking that they do tend to cost a lot more than a similar size and year coachbuilts?

[colin]

Tracker - 2011-12-09 7:35 PM

 

The original question was comparing pvc and coachbuilt at the same price and good as IH vans may be am I right in thinking that they do tend to cost a lot more than a similar size and year coachbuilts?

 

IH make PVC's and coachbuilt, both are equaly expensive.

[dshague]

have had both find pvc is for us .like to tour about down county lanes find spots that coachbuilts cannot get two .

[Guest Tracker]

dshague - 2011-12-09 7:50 PM

have had both find pvc is for us .like to tour about down county lanes find spots that coachbuilts cannot get two .

I'll bet you a shilling that anywhere sensible that you can get your panel van into and out of I can get my coachbuilt in and out of - and please don't take that as an attack on your driving skills as it is not meant that way - it's because your mirrors are the same width as mine and if they go through so does the rest of it - only difference is you might have an inch or two more clearance each side than I do!

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

The OP said "If you had two vans, same size, layout etc.No difference in price, which one would you choose? Are there advantages/disadvantages to them both?

 

 

The question is fatally flawed, I doubt there is any such vehicle that you could compare currently manufactured.

[malc d]

1footinthegrave - 2011-12-09 8:10 PM

 

The OP said "If you had two vans, same size, layout etc.No difference in price, which one would you choose? Are there advantages/disadvantages to them both?

 

 

The question is fatally flawed, I doubt any such direct vehicle comparison exists. :-|

 

 

 

 

The question is not flawed, it's hypothetical, that's why she said " if "

 

 

:-D

[Guest Tracker]

1footinthegrave - 2011-12-09 8:10 PM

The OP said "If you had two vans, same size, layout etc.No difference in price, which one would you choose? Are there advantages/disadvantages to them both?

The question is fatally flawed, I doubt any such direct vehicle comparison exists. :-|

 

I presumed that he meant size meaning overall length and price being the same regardless of year of each and on that basis as many vans share a basically very similar layout I venture to suggest that there is probably plenty of choice?

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

malc d - 2011-12-09 8:13 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2011-12-09 8:10 PM

 

The OP said "If you had two vans, same size, layout etc.No difference in price, which one would you choose? Are there advantages/disadvantages to them both?

 

 

The question is fatally flawed, I doubt any such direct vehicle comparison exists. :-|

 

 

 

 

The question is not flawed, it's hypothetical, that's why she said " if "

 

 

:-D

 

It's hypothetical that I could grow two heads, so I fail to see the point really...................

[Guest Tracker]

1footinthegrave - 2011-12-09 8:15 PM

 

 

The question is not flawed, it's hypothetical, that's why she said " if "

 

 

:-D

 

It's hypothetical that I could grow two heads, so I fail to see the point really...................

 

So why bother replying then if there is no point?

 

Personally I thought it was a very valid question and has thrown up some interesting replies?

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Because I re-read the original post again, both hypothetical vans identical in every way except one a PVC one a coachbuilt, how can they be the same to make a comparison.

 

By default a coachbuilt is going to have more internal volume than a PVC, unless they start building coachbuilts with tapered side walls. So by that definition they cannot be compared as being like for like.

 

 

[colin]

So the op crossed the i's and dotted the t's I think we can reasonably get the gist of her question, but for the more pedantic I've just looked at two ranges of vans from two different convertors, you can get the same basic layout PVC vs CB and only 25mm differance in body width, and it may be you can get even closer but I can't be bothered to look.

[Guest Tracker]

It does not matter how carefully anyone words a question - there is always someone who will find it in their heart to criticise!

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

colin - 2011-12-09 8:51 PM

 

So the op crossed the i's and dotted the t's I think we can reasonably get the gist of her question, but for the more pedantic I've just looked at two ranges of vans from two different convertors, you can get the same basic layout PVC vs CB and only 25mm differance in body width, and it may be you can get even closer but I can't be bothered to look.

 

Well you bothered to look enough to illustrate your point, and the OP and I'm sure others would be interested to know of the one with only 25mm difference, a name would do.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Tracker - 2011-12-09 8:52 PM

 

It does not matter how carefully anyone words a question - there is always someone who will find it in their heart to criticise!

 

Blimey mate, it's not to criticise, it's to establish the validity of the OP's question, I for one did not think a straight comparison could be made, nothing more, nothing less. :-S

[colin]

1footinthegrave - 2011-12-09 8:58 PM

 

colin - 2011-12-09 8:51 PM

 

So the op crossed the i's and dotted the t's I think we can reasonably get the gist of her question, but for the more pedantic I've just looked at two ranges of vans from two different convertors, you can get the same basic layout PVC vs CB and only 25mm differance in body width, and it may be you can get even closer but I can't be bothered to look.

 

Well you bothered to look enough to illustrate your point, and the OP and I'm sure others would be interested to know of the one with only 25mm difference, a name would do.

 

Simple you look at a CB based on a smaller chassis, the overall size then becomes close to same, after all the op never stated they should be identicle.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

OK I'll go with the flow and just add, a coachbuilt will at some point leak at the roof or other seams, a PVC will just rust. !

[Colin Leake]

Tracker - 2011-12-09 8:10 PM

dshague - 2011-12-09 7:50 PM

have had both find pvc is for us .like to tour about down county lanes find spots that coachbuilts cannot get two .

I'll bet you a shilling that anywhere sensible that you can get your panel van into and out of I can get my coachbuilt in and out of - and please don't take that as an attack on your driving skills as it is not meant that way - it's because your mirrors are the same width as mine and if they go through so does the rest of it - only difference is you might have an inch or two more clearance each side than I do!

Not sure that's correct. Our Auto- Trail has the extended wing mirrors which give it the wing span of a 707! Most panel van conversions I have seen have the standard wing mirrors.

[rupert123]

colin - 2011-12-09 7:30 PM

 

Poppy - 2011-12-09 8:38 AM

 

Well I ask because we have a Hobby Van (coachbuilt).We like it very much BUT the lounge area, while good in this type of layout (fixed transverse bed and garage) isn't particularly good if you have to sit in due to bad weather etc.Also the kitchen is a little cramped.Enter an IH panel van.The right length for us as due to parking restrictions we can only have 6.5 metres MAX.The IH is 6.3 metres, has a lovely lounge, brilliant kitchen AND crucially a BOOT for outdoor storage.We are thinking of changing 2012/2013.My husband though, is not sure of the idea of a panel van.It feels spacious inside despite being slightly narrower than our coachbuilt.

 

Nice vans, they do tend to have more space taken up by galley and bathroom than some which is why it's built on L4 chassis but only have same size lounge as some get on the L3 chassis.

Now we have a PVC which is more like the layout of your Hobby, but gf likes to lounge on fixed bed, so space is never an issue, be aware that if you go for rear lounge unless both go to bed and rise at same time one will end up in a small cab whilst other is in bed.

 

p.s. nearly forgot to add, IMO ride is not as good with L4 chassis as with L3 3.5t light chassis.

 

Not quite correct Colin, you can have a twin rear bed arrangement with a rear lounge so both do not have go to bed at the same time.

[Poppy]

Colin you were quite right about why I crossed the Ts and dotted the Is.I could just have said, what doyou prefer Coach built or panels vans? There are so many variables there I doubt anyone could have done a sensible answer really.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

To be fair despite some of my more flippant answers on balance we love our IH PVC, and having in the past had a coach built that had the roof seams fail allowing water ingress to wipe thousands of it's value feel more comfortable with a steel roof above us. Add in car like handling, parking anywhere a car can, NO big sticky out mirrors, and all the equipment of a coach built and it's a no brainer for us.

We did initially exchange for a Trigano PVC which in layout terms proved a big mistake, our current IH is just about perfect though, yes the new ones are expensive, but you know the old saying............but why not look for one a couple of years old if your budget does not go to a new one. ;-)

[Guest Tracker]

Colin Leake - 2011-12-09 10:23 PM

Not sure that's correct. Our Auto- Trail has the extended wing mirrors which give it the wing span of a 707! Most panel van conversions I have seen have the standard wing mirrors.

 

That throws up an interesting point Colin.

 

Some coachbuilts are wider than others, says he stating the obvious, and our own Starlet has standard van mirrors because it is less wide than others - which in turn gives the benefit of plenty of space inside without mind boggging width!

 

In addition ours is on the old Boxer chassis which is less wide than the newer X250 cab!

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Poppy - 2011-12-10 8:33 AM

 

Colin you were quite right about why I crossed the Ts and dotted the Is.I could just have said, what doyou prefer Coach built or panels vans? There are so many variables there I doubt anyone could have done a sensible answer really.

Don't worry Elizabeth, the intention underlying your question was abundantly clear, and Tracker answered most of the points in his very good first post.

 

One or two others have taken your general hypothesis far too literally, and turned it into a mental straight-jacket, using that as a springboard to talk about their own van and their personal preferences. Others have then presented conflicting views based on their own vans and their contrary personal preferences, and a minor spat along the lines of "my preferences are better than yours" broke out.

 

Ignore! Twas ever thus! :-D

 

But, more important, do you now feel you have something approaching an answer?

 

One point no-one has yet made is payload in relation to storage space, and your future intentions for travel. For example, many of the PVCs (but by no means all, even at the higher price levels, so do check carefully) on offer have generous payloads on paper, but have very small load margins on their front axles, severely limiting their actual usability. They also have comparatively low storage volumes, meaning that the generous payload is a practical illusion, because there is no-where within that such loads could be carried. This is not a problem that is peculiar to PVCs, but it is more acute when the lighter (3,300kg) versions of the base van are featured in the converter's literature. It would be wise to check the ex works load margins on each axle as well as just the published payload, and be prepared to pay for an upgrade to 3,500kg if necessary. The same check should be used in evaluating coachbuilts, especially those with drop down beds mounted towards the front.

 

Future travel is worth considering. You have spoken about one month trips. If that is about the maximum you contemplate looking ahead, either type of van should suffice.

 

However, if you think you may extend those trips significantly beyond the month, you may find you run into limitations with PVCs. One can almost survive for a month with the same type of clothing, climate does not change that radically over that timescale. One can also just about get away with doing only minor washing.

 

Once the trip is extended to 10 or 12 weeks, things get different. The change in climate from northern to southern Europe, for example is much more extreme. Leave UK in early spring, and you'll need waterproofs and warm clothes and warm bedding. However, if you travel south not only do things warm up, but the season advances, so by say, June, you are in a totally different climate. Vice versa for late season trips. So, you need much more space for clothing/bedding to span the differences than for a shorter trip. You will also need to carry spare bedding so that you can change to reserves while others are washed.

 

This stuff is all bulky, so storage space becomes a major consideration. Because of the more limited volumes generally available in PVCs you may find this becomes a limitation on your plans. More than one owner of a PVC has found the need to tow a trailer to overcome this limitation, so it is worth considering before paying the much higher price the PVC usually commands.

[Guest JudgeMental]

The German dealer said I did not need a 3500lg chassis and he was perfectly right...He also said the 3500kg chassis was not as nice to drive.

 

Our van has same water and gas capacity as our coachbuilt, build quality is very good and up there with most coachbuilts, unlike some of the jerry built UK PVC derivatives that seem to cost a bomb.

 

The rear transverse bed and front dinette layout is popular for good reason, as it gives the best use of space where 2 people can still get away from each other. Wife wants to watch some rubbish on laptop or TV, I can go and rest on bed and read or watch something else.....One wants to get up earlier and breakfast, the other can sleep on etc...etc....

 

The bed (most comfortable yet) can be tipped up giving a massive loading space. For the life of me I dont get the rear lounge converting to rear beds set ups popular here at all. Trying to mimic a caravan/larger motorhome in a smaller space pointless to me.......You must surely realise that bedmaking is more difficult in a small space and storage of bedding etc...has to be considered. Then you are expected to pay nearly 60k for this privilege, when a perfectly good van can be had for approx 35-37k if you import (8-10k more for same van as here)

 

If you want a van for comfortable lounging, stick with a coachbuilt......But we would never dream of going back to one

[Guest Peter James]

Brian Kirby - 2011-12-10 11:16 AM For example, many of the PVCs (but by no means all, even at the higher price levels, so do check carefully) on offer have generous payloads on paper, but have very small load margins on their front axles, severely limiting their actual usability.

 

Thats another good point. Rear axles on panel vans tend to be further back to allow for a large side door. This makes the front axle take most of the weight, (an advantage on slippery surfaces as more of the weight is on the driving wheels) but it leads to front axle overloads

Another reason why I think the X250 L4 versions are better than the usual L3 because all of the additional 300mm length is behind the rear axle, counterbalancing the excessive weight on the front.

 

Incidentally I would put the rise in popularity of PVCs down to the new X2/50 as its wider, and lower, than any of the others.