postnote Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 This the question, how many new motor homes have we all looked around that are delivered with known faults. I have seen Auto trail’s with internal trim hanging off, broken handles even jammed toilet doors to name just three. But there view is the good old dealer will put this right at the dealership. It brings into question how competent are the manufactures quality assurance departments. It reminds me of when I used to work in Bombay and we expat’s used to say of their products NQR or not quite right. Years ago we used to have motor industries that had the same philosophy, the dealer will put the known faults right. This now seem to have manifested itself within the UK motor home manufactures. Do you think manufactures be more accountable for quality or let the dealers sort it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Forum Members, Now is a golden opportunity to show whether you are happy to continue to tolerate Postnote's disruptive behaviour. Let's be perfectly clear, Arkroyd Pothelwait (Postnote's 'real name') behaves as he does primarily for personal gratification. This is another of of his provocative "Let's have your views" postings that will inevitably become a slanging-match if you let it progress. Two choices: 1. You do not reply to Postnote's posting - the Sent-to-Coventry gambit. 2. You reply to Postnote's posting, just encouraging him to persist in his trollish ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Derek Uzzell - 2011-12-10 8:16 AM Forum Members, Now is a golden opportunity to show whether you are happy to continue to tolerate Postnote's disruptive behaviour. Let's be perfectly clear, Arkroyd Pothelwait (Postnote's 'real name') behaves as he does primarily for personal gratification. This is another of of his provocative "Let's have your views" postings that will inevitably become a slanging-match if you let it progress. . Not sure if I agree with Dereks comments, as I am not aware of the other previous postings to which he presumably refers. In essence, though the answer to teh question must surely be 'Yes', it is the Manaufacturers responsibility to build the motorhome properly and ensure it is delivered to the dealer in tip-top condition. The dealer then has the ability to check everything out on the PDI. Having had 5 motorhomes, from 4 different manufacturers, and from 5 different dealers, over a period of some 20 yeasr, I can say that by and large most things have been Ok from the start, but sometimes in normal use probelms do arise. For example one Autosleeper vehicle we had was fitted with the combi oven-hob, which permanently smelt of gas......in the end via the dealer and through AS, it was arranged that the rep from the Oven manufacturers would meet us at the dealers, and a replacement oven was fitted, and from memory - it was a loong time ago- I think it was established that the smell was not in fact gas but something to do with the insulation material surrounding the unit. These things can happen, and with the other motorhomes we have owned - anotehr AS, a Compass, Rapido and currently a Burstner, I have had no specific 'delivery' problems, and anything occuring under normal usage has been dealt with extremely courteously and efficiently by the dealer.. ....perhaps we have just been lucky with both Manufacturer and Dealers, although I do think the customers own attitude may have considerable contribution to the way in which things are resolved. Being firm but pleasant goes a long way towards resolving any issues! Maybe also we were lucky in that we have purchased from 'small' family style dealers not multi-outlet ones!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I too disagree with Dereks views here. Whilst I am no liker of PN's style he does make a very good point in this thread and I agree that manufacturers should be far more accountable for the quality of their products - especially when you consider the cost and emotions involved. Buying a motorhome is not like buying a biro that fails to work so you take it back for a refund or swap and I firmly believe that most manufacturers hide behind their dealers when it comes to build quality and/or design failings. By the nature of limited production runs there is bound to be some using of the customer as a design and build quality test bed but at least when it goes wrong the converters should have the decency to accept responsibility and put it right quickly and with good grace. That said I agree that to ignore PN's nastier motoivated threads is not a bad idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Well Derek a valiant effort......which has fallen on deaf ears! These egotistical personalities whose need to spout nonsense at EVERY opportunity, in the name of self gratification seems to know no bounds.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 JudgeMental - 2011-12-10 12:35 PM Well Derek a valiant effort......which has fallen on deaf ears! These egotistical personalities whose need to spout nonsense at EVERY opportunity, in the name of self gratification seems to know no bounds.... Well said Eddie - spoken like a true egotist - trying to impose his own views on everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Tracker - 2011-12-10 12:38 PM JudgeMental - 2011-12-10 12:35 PM Well Derek a valiant effort......which has fallen on deaf ears! These egotistical personalities whose need to spout nonsense at EVERY opportunity, in the name of self gratification seems to know no bounds.... Well said Eddie - spoken like a true egotist - trying to impose his own views on everyone else. Yet again you prove that you can not listen to Derek's in this case common sense, but just keep on with your cheap egotistical point scoring..I can assure you no one is impressed by you except yourself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I'm sorry you feel that way Eddie but I speak only as I find and I find nothing wrong with PN's original posting on this topic. Perhaps you could enlighten me with what you think is wrong with it please? Perhaps it has something with the way we each perceive each other - I don't know - but I do try to take each posting as it comes without pre judging in advance by the name of the originator. I am repeatedly unimpressed by those who would force their own views on others rather than simply reply to a topic, unless the topic were offensive and this one certainly is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 136 members have looked at this thread and all except YOU could see the worthiness of Derek's efforts to stop the Trolling amd flaming of this site. Keith can be excused as he is not totally aware of the of the history of all this ...But you? Just cant help spouting of you selfish plonker.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Well Derek was right in one aspect - it would not take long for someone to deviate from the subject and degenerate into name calling and insults. Well done Eddie - first prize goes to you again and I am not going to spoil what could still be a good thread with further replies to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Really, folks -- what more proof does Derek need? The sooner we all send 'Postnote' to Coventry the better, in my view. I,along with Eddie (Judgemental) hoped that the nasty little troll had been banned by the Mods some months ago -- no such luck! His activities ( and other dog avatars -- see Brian Kirby on a 'chatterbox thread) have deterred me (and possibly others) from posting many times in recent weeks -- particularly on 'chatterbox' where few threads seem to escape its attentions -- and go rapidly downhill as a result. The 'Pensions' thread that accidentally appeared under this heading, should surely have attracted a severe sanction for 'Postnote, if there is any justice in this (virtual) world! yours, more in sadness than recrimination, Cheers, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 JudgeMental - 2011-12-10 2:08 PM 136 members have looked at this thread and all except YOU could see the worthiness of Derek's efforts to stop the Trolling amd flaming of this site. Keith can be excused as he is not totally aware of the of the history of all this ...But you? Just cant help spouting of you selfish plonker.... I find your reply extremely patronising, and insulting. Frankly,.....the question was raised - as far as I am concerned - as a 'one-off'.No history required, just a simple question to which I replied accurately, and from my WON experience. Why are there some contributors who have to make personal issues of almost everything You will see from my profile I have been on this forum a long time and have both rasied and answered lots of matters Never before have I bothered to respond to people like you. As far as I am concerned something raised like the question here is totally valid- it is expressed is a logical and non-offending manner, so just why do you feel it neceesary to bring in personalities. I do not wish to be 'excused'...from what?..... maybe your personal and your egotistical attitude more than than of the OP...but remember your is not the only opinion and view and you have no right to condemn others who disagree with you, any more than I would! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I am condemning no one, just astonished by your lack of insight into how Troll's operate, and manage to destroy helpful dialogue on forums.......and your total lack of understanding of Derek's excellent appeal for sanity..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJB Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 "JudgeMental"..........well, that says it all 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 EJB - 2011-12-10 3:28 PM "JudgeMental"..........well, that says it all 8-) My apologies, EJB, but I'm afraid you are being a little hasty with that conclusion. The OP moves in strange ways, sometimes posting almost benign comments, sometimes throwing in hand-grenades. He (presumably, it is a widely recognised male trait) is never offensive, never directly rude, but picks at particular individuals in ways he has learnt will provoke trenchant reactions. By this means, he escapes the attention of the very laissez faire moderation of these forums, and avoids being banned for giving gratuitous offense. This string is typical. Just the right buttons pushed to launch a spat. However, once having provoked a response, he will "stalk" that individual across numerous posts, referring to the post that caused the strong reaction, in order to provoke further outbursts. He will employ smiley emoticons to try to disguise his barbed comments as jokes, and will plead injured innocence if challenged. He seems to be driven by a desire to provoke spats among others and, having lit a fire, just throws occasional fuel on the flames, from a more or less safe distance. Make of this caution what you will, but I believe a number of other "members" will share my conclusions, even if not all are prepared to risk saying so. The OP apart, you will find the rest of us generally helpful, congenial, and more or less sane, so welcome aboard! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I agree with what you say Brian up to a point but far too many people are too quick to pass judgement on their own perceptions of a member rather than on the individual merits of that members current posting. I can't believe I'm taking PN's side here but as ever I will speak as I find and on this occasion PN has done nothing wrong yet is still being vilified - mainly by the usual suspects who have crossed swords with him before and, it seems, are unable to move on. No doubt PN will return and prove me wrong by justifying all of the villification but until then I still think that the original posting is a very valid issue and has every right to be asked, and discussed, on an open forum - don't you? Those who detracted from the topic and who attack the messenger not the message without just cause should have known better and o not help the cause of free discussion. Even worse - they have perhaps unwittingly fallen into the very trap that people like PN often try and often fail to construct and on this occasion the route od descent may have been unexpected but the resulting dissent is very familiar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJB Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I visit the site most days but rarely post. Having reread the posts, in this thread, by the person I highlighted, I couldn't possibly change my opinion. It's a shame that the 'offence' is from regulars. I'll take my leave ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I tell you it beats me how a thread that starts off with a perfectly valid question can develop into a slanging match so quickly! On the matter in hand my view is that yes the manufacturer should be primarily responsable for quality backed by the dealer with his PDI. Both the new motorhomes we have had one a Rapido and the other an AutoTrail have been relatively free of faults when handed over. One has to take into account that each model is made in very small numbers by hand to a price. That being the case it would be unreasonable to expect the same level of quality one finds in say a mass produced car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 EJB - 2011-12-10 4:35 PM I visit the site most days but rarely post. Having reread the posts, in this thread, by the person I highlighted, I couldn't possibly change my opinion. It's a shame that the 'offence' is from regulars. I'll take my leave ;-) Yep. I'm with you there. The regulars can be a problem. :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyg3nwl Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Hi . In response to the original question, and ingnoring the unnecessary comments from some individuals, As far as I am aware, it is the dealers responsibility to ensure that merchandise sold is "of mrechantable quality" and is "fit for the purpose"... If a customer has a problem , his recourse is to get it sorted via the dealer, and has no recourse to the manufacturer, There is no reason why he can't complain to the manufacturer, but the manufacturer doesn't HAVE to fix it, it is down to the supplying dealer. Any dealer who values his customer, will do his level best to satisfy the customer, and if he finds that manufacturer consistently provides rubbish, then surely he would sensibly drop the dealership or at least go and sort it out with his supplier. However, we have to remember that dealerships are paid (some say ,a pittance )to act on the part of manufacturer to carry out PDI and should (but admittedly don't always) rectify any faults found and refer them back as quality control reports to assist the manufacturer. Because the production runs on a "just in time" supply basis, spares are not always available "fromstock", so getting replacements for broken or damaged items inevitably takes time, and sadly the customer doesn't appreciate the delay having a nice shiny new van in the repair shop waiting for some small, almost trivial item which should never have broken in the first place. As a result, there is possibly a case that manufacturers should be more accountable, but how far back down the production process does accountability stretch..ultimately to the bod in the chinese sweatshop who made the busted or faulty bit in the first place. The customer can't reach that far back, so where does the "buck stop"?? tonyg3nwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 If you want to start an argument then judgemental is your man. He (and a handful of other regulars) are responsible for my lack of posts, although I check in regularly to view new posts. Add someone like postnote to the mix and what do you have ? Answer - the worst motorhome forum on the net. A forum is only as good as its members. BTW, if anyone remembers another trouble maker, namely bigpieeater (who was banned from this forum) he has been up to his old tricks on another forum. He might have sneaked back on here under another persona and is quietly enjoying other peoples spats. There are plenty of them about. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 "He (and a handful of other regulars) are responsible for my lack of posts" Thank God for that.......I am doing something right! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandale Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 postnote - 2011-12-10 2:12 AM This the question, how many new motor homes have we all looked around that are delivered with known faults. I have seen Auto trail’s with internal trim hanging off, broken handles even jammed toilet doors to name just three. But there view is the good old dealer will put this right at the dealership. It brings into question how competent are the manufactures quality assurance departments. It reminds me of when I used to work in Bombay and we expat’s used to say of their products NQR or not quite right. Years ago we used to have motor industries that had the same philosophy, the dealer will put the known faults right. This now seem to have manifested itself within the UK motor home manufactures. Do you think manufactures be more accountable for quality or let the dealers sort it. YES (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 JudgeMental - 2011-12-10 3:12 PM I am condemning no one, just astonished by your lack of insight into how Troll's operate, and manage to destroy helpful dialogue on forums.......and your total lack of understanding of Derek's excellent appeal for sanity..... First you are patronising and insutling, now you accuse me os 'a lack of insight; and 'lack of understanding'! All I did was to reply to a sensible posting about quality of our motorhomes. Why can't you just leave it at that! No-one asked for your opinion on the person who posted the enquiry..whjich as I have stated was quite well lphrased and was a senebile question. I really cannot be bothered to waste my time on YOUR problems, but my final word here is that I think peoiple like you and other of a similar attitude should be removed from this forum, and leave it to those of us who have a genuine interested in the matters raised to discuss things freely and easily, alwasy accepting that there is no perfect answer, and evreryone is entitled to teh (often opposing) views, provided they are polite and helpful to the points in question! I do not beleive the purpose of this forum is for a few egotistical members to attack otehrs whilst clear not even being interested in the matter raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 At least 3 other far better qualified members then me have attempted to explain what is going on here, and you seem incapable of listening to reason. I started by saying I fully understood why you took the original post at face value, and at least 4 of us have tried to explain what is going on and how the forum is being manipulated by a Troll... I give up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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