Robbed in Spain

[nightrider]

Fish chips and mushy pea's, 2 rounds of bread and butter and a hot mug of tea will do me (lol)

[fairweather camper]

Lucky bugger James

[Bulletguy]

Since beginning this thread as the victim I am pleased to see that in just six days of being on the board it has received over 5000 views and 178 replies, not to mention the positive pm’s which I’ve also received.

 

There have been many constructive comments and ideas. Benefit of hindsight is brilliant and I could/should have done some things differently, but there is no point beating myself over the head about that now. At some stage we all wish we’d approached things differently.

 

I’ve toured many European countries and not once had any problems as a solo traveller. However, this was my first excursion to mainland Spain.

 

Knowing what I now know, particularly about the area I was in, I would never have stopped and certainly never got out of my vehicle.

 

Maybe I have been too trusting of people but that’s my personal character and not so easy to change. By nature I will chat or socialise with anyone….even if there is a language barrier which I’ve never let get in the way. Under stress or pressure this can of course be difficult.

 

If anything I would like to think that this thread will make ALL Motorhome/Campervan owners, in particular solo travellers like myself, thinking of touring Spain to take great caution when driving around the area I was in and to be well prepared for ANY incident that may arise.

 

As for stopping only for the Police…..they would need to be conversant in English and PROVE beyond all doubt that they were actually Police before I would even THINK of unlocking my van. I’ve been stopped by the Police (simply for a documentation check) on the border of Ukraine where virtually no-one speaks a word of English, but had no qualms about the situation as one young Officer spoke pretty good English and was able to explain why they had stopped me.

 

We may well have incidents of ‘car jacking’ in this country though they are extremely rare and generally confined to owners of very expensive super-cars (who on earth is going to bother with a simple Ford Focus?!). Some ‘top end’ Motorhomes may be worth a few bob but they are hardly the type of vehicle which can roar off and disappear into oblivion in minutes.

 

Not stopping for anyone seems to be the main precaution, but one poster on this thread had his Motorhome rammed in Spain and attempts made to force him to stop. That is VERY disturbing.

 

The Spanish Government appear to be unperturbed by a crime which has history and apparently on the increase.

 

I have notified all six of my MEP’s about what took place and look forward to hearing what they have to say about it, and hopefully at least one of them may get through to their Spanish politicians in Brussels.

 

[nightrider]

Patricia - 2011-12-22 11:31 AM

 

knight of the road - 2011-12-22 11:24 AM

 

Off topic a little but can any of our older members 70 plus remember a murder case in France just after the war perhaps, where a retired British army officer camping somewhere in France with his family was murdered and robbed by an old French farmer? the name is on the tip of my tongue and is frustrating me.

 

Does this help? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/jul/29/humanities.artsandhumanities

Yes, thats the case Patricia, for some reason I thought Jack Drummond was an ex army officer, thank you.

[Brian Kirby]

knight of the road - 2011-12-22 4:37 PM.......................My trips abroad have only been with Shearings coaches before I bought my M/H, am not as adventurous as some of you guys, need to stay nearby my hospital plus anything and everything I am interested in is over here, sorry if I appear to be a bit of a saddo.

Not at all Malcolm. I appreciate your present circumstances don't readily lend themselves to extensive foreign motorhoming. However, maybe something to plan for?

 

All I was trying to say is, it isn't anything like that bad at all in general, though it is obviously devastating if you happen to become a victim. As a broad generalisation, I would say most mainlanders display more in the way of old fashioned courtesy and honesty, and have better manners, than is now the case in this country. However, I wouldn't start a war over it, and it is just based on my own observations.

 

It is also based on a foolish readiness on my part, bred of wild over-confidence from having once been somewhere near fluent in conversational French, to try anyone else's language with a half-convincing accent and little vocabulary, to see what happens. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't, but it usually dispels any ice that may be around! :-) However, I concede total defeat with the Slavic languages beyond "dzien dobry" or "dober dan" - and no-one in their right mind tries Hungarian!

 

Leaving that aside, a readiness to try the language does seem to help. Otherwise, others react much as we do when confronted with a foreigner who can't speak their language, and won't try. But, even if they are a bit off hand or impatient at times, they generally don't try to rob or swindle you, and can very easily be insulted if anything in one's attitude suggests to them that one doesn't quite trust them. Fundamentally, we all have roughly the same expectations of each other in terms of behaviour, it is just our different languages that create the barriers and the suspicions.

 

Apologies for the OT.

[Homenaway]

Hi BG,

Sorry to hear about your incident and a lot of responses seem to me to be out of the fantasy world of films and tv series.

So far we have been lucky to avoid such incidents as yours but I easily fell for an attempted pickpocket by distraction when inside the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona a few years ago although we were fully aware of the risks. While walking around with the crowds of tourists two (attractive!) women turned to me with a visitors map and asked me a question in good English. In an instant their third accomplice dipped her hand in my empty pocket and I spun round but they were gone. Luckily I always, well sometimes, have my wallet and valuables in a body belt or neck wallet in such situations but it is so easy to let your guard drop and you feel foolish after the event.

Also

A French motorhome pulled in to our campsite in Budapest late in the evening a couple of years ago. We didn't go out to investigate but in the morning they told us they had parked in the city centre and their van had been completely stripped of their possessions so they just had the clothes they were in and they were heading home - but we still park in town centres but do avoid cities (except our local one - familiarity breeds . . . .)

- otherwise we wouldn't go anywhere would we!

Steve

[Mel B]

Brian Kirby - 2011-12-22 12:21 PM

 

... and when you scratch most Europeans, you find much more that unites us, than divides us.

 

That'll be the fleas then? :D

 

Hi BG, I hope you are managing to get over the 'assault' - even though you weren't actually physically hurt, it is still an assault as I well know from when our motorhome was attacked. It is a horrible feeling to have anything happen like this but I can tell you that you do get past that feeling and enjoy yourself again.

 

Happy Christmas

xx

[Bulletguy]

Thanks Mel

 

Hope your excursion into Spain goes better than mine though don't pack one of those 'things' I suggested on your 'what should we take' thread. Only Criminals are allowed to carry those! *-)

 

Happy Christmas to you too......and all others who have kept this thread up where it needs to be.

 

The more constructive suggestions that come out of it makes me feel much more positive.

[betsy]

Very sorry to read about your expierience. As another contributor posted, these villans (called BANDIDOs in Spain) have been at it since at least 1997. I was attacked by three seperate groups (each car had three men/women in it - the third person layng down in the back seat). Their MO is to get you (and your passenger(s) out of the van/car (if towing a caravan) whilst the third team member enters and grabs as many of your valuables as he can.

In my case the first attempt was made in a services just south of Barcelona. Being an ex-cop I was already suspicious of the two reasonable smartly dressed young men who invited me to view the rear of my rig where they indicated their was a problem. I asked my wife to lock the door behind me which she did and as they could not gain entry they shoved off. The incident was far from over, however, for as we exited the services congratulating ourselves on outwitting "Bandidos", we had only beaten " Team One" who were now busy telephoning "Team Two" who, unbeknown to us, followed us into the next manned Autopista toll booth where one team member quickly alighted from their car and stabbed one of my rear tyres! Fortunately the tyre deflated quite quickly (in front of the Toll Booths' Admin Offices as it happened) and not some way down the road as they had obviously hoped so they could 'stop and try to help'. Like one of the other contributors has said, I found the toll booth staff VERY HELPFUL in fact the controller within the office building itself witnesses the incident and called the Police for me as well as shaking his fists at the Bandido's car which had stopped nearby causing them to speed off!

When I had finally managed to fit the spare, I took the first turn off as I was intending to go to the nearest Police station to make a report. I was waved through the exit toll and......ran straight into Bandido - Team Three!!" They were already waiting with one of the team already out of the car standing by the slip roads junction with the main road pretending to take a leak whilst his car timed its approach to temporarily block my entry onto the main road - this allowed "The Widdler" to stab my rear tyre again!!! This time I drove forward and blocked their car, jumped out with my camera (thats all I had - now I carry a sharpened tyre lever to put radiators out thereby ensuring that their getaway will be short lived) but the "Widdler" began to approach me with the long sharpened screw driver they use to puncture your tyres so I turned my attention to him. They do not really want to injure their victims and he very quickly decided to run off towards his pals who had reversed their car and they very quickly made off - all laughing their socks off at the "stupid gringo in the middle of the road who obviously looked (and felt) like he was about to have a heart attack!! About half a dozen Spanish cars had passed us, all slowing down to look but none to help.

Later the Guardia Civil who police the Autopistas arrived, almost completely disinterested. I gave them the Reg. Nos of all three cars and the film (pre-digital) No attempt was made to call their control and pass on the vehicle info etc. Where they did help was to take me and my damaged tyre to a local tyre shop for a temp (illegal holed-sidewall repair - but I needed to get away from the area and wasnt arguing!). The tyre fitter told me the Bandidos were at it every day of the year and that their targets were always foreign plates. The Police told me in broken English stay off the Autopistas from the French/Spanish border all the way down to and beyond Valencia.

Since then I have been collecting BANDIDO stories - and there are MANY!!!!

As advised elswhere, dont stop for anyone - even a woman and a child standing by a car with its bonnet up! Bandidos operate in cars, trucks, vans and motorbikes/scooters and they use any ruse that they can to get you out of your van - be it stabbing your tyres, spray-painting your bodywork, or banging dents in your 'van etc., etc. Always keep your valuables hidden and lock your doors at ALL times. Carry a camera at the ready and a mobile phone.

If you think the area is safe just ask a Spanish Petrol Station attendant - "Bandidos?" - my experience is that the answer will usually be one of rolled eyes and the word "Mucho!"

MY SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM WAS : NEVER VISIT SPAIN (WHICH WE FIRST BEGAN TOURING IN 1971) AGAIN UNLESS IN CONVOY WITH ANOTHER PAL (watch the French/Dutch/Germans - they know) and be on total alert with rear-view camera continously on watching any cars that might lag behind on approaching any obstacle or toll booth. I always stop in such a way that I can move (forward/sideways) if I have to.

Sadly similar incidents are happening now on the Algarve and near some Portuguese cities so be vigilant.

[Guest Peter James]

knight of the road - 2011-12-22 10:12 AM

 

Peter James - 2011-12-22 8:12 AM

 

knight of the road - 2011-12-21 9:38 PM

I dont ask no man for anything, whatever I want I work for it.

 

So do I because I can :-D

But some people can't :-(

 

I don't think we know what we would do in their situation if we have never been in it ourselves.

In any event its a pretty desperate way of getting a living.

 

The smartest crooks stay on the right side of the law.

So what is your answer to the problem Peter? Government redistribution of peoples wealth or the have nots taking what they want from the haves?

 

We've already got Government redistribution of people's wealth, but from the poor to the rich. Appparently the gap between rich and poor has been widening throughout Europe, but most of all in Britain. Even the most right wing politicians can't deny that leads to more crime because the evidence is overwhelming.

Please no setting up a straw man saying I am advocating or defending robbery, because I'm not. Just stating a fact.

[nightrider]

Having read all these posts about the thieving bandidos in Spain, all I can say is up yours to Spain. No way am I going somewhere where you have to be alert and on the ball against potential thieves eye balling my every move,

[JamesFrance]

Don't blame Spain and the Spanish. Try blaming stupid politicians who encourage mass immigration. It is just the same all over the EU.

[enodreven]

The Spanish Jails are full of Spanish People the same as most other countries, so please don't blame immigration,

 

JamesFrance - 2011-12-23 5:47 PM

 

Don't blame Spain and the Spanish. Try blaming stupid politicians who encourage mass immigration. It is just the same all over the EU.

[nowtelse2do]

JamesFrance - 2011-12-23 5:47 PM

 

Don't blame Spain and the Spanish. Try blaming stupid politicians who encourage mass immigration. It is just the same all over the EU.

 

While there are problems in Spain, certain parts of Italy and France, I have never come across any kind of problems of what BG and others have encountered in Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Switzerland or the Sud Tirol and that is where I spend my main holiday time. I'm not saying there are no problems in those places but the police and the authorities are more on the ball and don't stand for any nonsense by anyone. My main holiday this year will be a first in Southern Ireland. Any problems there? I've never heard of any, only how friendly the Irish are, so looking forward to it.

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

[flicka]

If Bruce (BGD) is following this thread.

I seem to recall he posted on a previous thread regarding cars attempting to flag you down.

It included a message in English & Spanish saying that you would not stop on the Motorway.

 

Can you repeat it on this thread Bruce, as I can't find it using the search.

[Bulletguy]

nowtelse2do - 2011-12-23 8:45 PM

 

While there are problems in Spain, certain parts of Italy and France, I have never come across any kind of problems of what BG and others have encountered in Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Switzerland.......

Dave

 

Switzerland and the Swiss 'psyche' is pretty amazing. The Swiss pride themselves on self discipline and honesty.

 

Some years back with my ex-wife we had been to Zurich on the train from Bern. We arrived early for the departure so sat having a coffee. I had a Canon 10D which back then was a very expensive camera. We finished our coffee and left to board the train when at the platform I realised i'd forgotten my camera.

 

Heart racing like crazy I dashed back to the table where we had been sitting. My camera was still there......with a Swiss couple who had taken firm control over it. They told me had nobody returned it would have been handed in to the Station.

 

I'd like to think the same would happen in Spain.........but somehow I doubt it very much!

 

 

[Bulletguy]

Lot of interesting similarities in your post Betsy.

 

I think keeping a camera and mobile handy is certainly wise and would appear to be a good defensive tactic.

[Guest Peter James]

knight of the road - 2011-12-23 5:30 PM

 

Having read all these posts about the thieving bandidos in Spain, all I can say is up yours to Spain. No way am I going somewhere where you have to be alert and on the ball against potential thieves eye balling my every move,

 

Is there no thieves in Bury then Malcolm *-)

 

The thing is, the Costas are about 8 degrees warmer than here. Whilst I would not want that in the summer, its very welcome this time of year when you are touring in a van.

[Guest Peter James]

Bulletguy - 2011-12-23 11:34 PM

 

nowtelse2do - 2011-12-23 8:45 PM

 

While there are problems in Spain, certain parts of Italy and France, I have never come across any kind of problems of what BG and others have encountered in Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Switzerland.......

Dave

 

Switzerland and the Swiss 'psyche' is pretty amazing. The Swiss pride themselves on self discipline and honesty.

 

Some years back with my ex-wife we had been to Zurich on the train from Bern. We arrived early for the departure so sat having a coffee. I had a Canon 10D which back then was a very expensive camera. We finished our coffee and left to board the train when at the platform I realised i'd forgotten my camera.

 

Heart racing like crazy I dashed back to the table where we had been sitting. My camera was still there......with a Swiss couple who had taken firm control over it. They told me had nobody returned it would have been handed in to the Station.

 

I'd like to think the same would happen in Spain.........but somehow I doubt it very much!

 

 

The Swiss make vast amounts from legalised robbery, at least legal under swiss law, like tax avoiding secret bank accounts. Then they don't waste it on wars like Britain. They are so wealthy they have no interest in petty theft.

If you met Thatcher or Blair on the train they wouldn't nick your camera either. Why would they bother with that when they can help themselves to millions of pounds legally?

Its not that they are better people. They have got too much to lose by getting involved in petty theft and they don't need the money.

I guess those who robbed you had little to lose, and needed the money. :-(

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Funny really that you keep saying the same thing, they must be desperate, and needed the money. Perhaps you don't understand criminality is a lifestyle choice for some, and they may well see it as easier to nick stuff than do what the rest of us do,and go out and work for it. Please don't keep trying to justify thieving, it really is a wind up, especially given the trauma suffered by the original poster.

[Guest Peter James]

Peter James - 2011-12-23 5:08 PM

Please no setting up a straw man saying I am advocating or defending robbery, because I'm not. Just stating a fact.

 

I knew I was asking too much there *-)

[Brian Kirby]

1footinthegrave - 2011-12-24 10:58 AM

 

Funny really that you keep saying the same thing, they must be desperate, and needed the money. Perhaps you don't understand criminality is a lifestyle choice for some, and they may well see it as easier to nick stuff than do what the rest of us do,and go out and work for it. Please don't keep trying to justify thieving, it really is a wind up, especially given the trauma suffered by the original poster.

Bit OT, so apologies, but I doubt if any of us, truly "understands" criminality, we just understand its effects. I'm not convinced that it is a "lifestyle choice", any more then I'm convinced it is the product of desperation or deprivation.

 

However, what I do find interesting is that it seems to be a certain group of individuals who commit nearly all the crime across the country, that they spend a large amount of their time passing in and out of penal institutions, that they are well known to the police and the legal system generally, that they tend to come from families with a "certain reputation", and that few of them live in the better neighbourhoods of their towns. Few are well educated, many are of relatively low intelligence, and most seem to have weak to non-existent parental role models.

 

However it also seems that this pattern has existed for a very long time, although modern communications technology has enabled it to be recognised for what it is. Such "feral" families crop up throughout history, occasionally getting recorded in literature. They existed when prisons were quite as harsh and brutal as some still seem to think would cure them of their ways, apparently without doing so. Locking them up periodically removes them from the rest of us, so to that extent it works, but then they are released and the cycle runs again. They could, perhaps, be permanently locked up, which would stop their antics, but would present a very costly and difficult to control prison environment. If you deny all hope, what incentive to reform is there? What we have to try, that has never yet been tried, is to actively reform the individuals.

 

I think this may be what Cameron is after with his proposal to deal with problem families. It will undoubtedly be expensive at first but, if it works, the result would be a much reduced prison population, and lower demand on the police (and fire and ambulance) service, as well as the judiciary, the courts, the benefits system, the NHS, etc etc. So, the potential payoff is huge - if it could be made to work. It must be worth a try, if for no other reason than it has not been tried before. However, it is potentially difficult territory, because it requires the outlook of the individual to be changed, and that implies degrees of psychological manipulation. Anyone who thinks that will only be for the good, in a results-driven society, should perhaps read A Clockwork Orange (forget the film, it was a fair attempt, but the book is far darker and more revealing). Food for thought? :-S

[nightrider]

How about 3 strikes and you're out, then the death penalty, harsh but it would work methinks.

[Guest Peter James]

Brian Kirby - 2011-12-24 12:41 PM

However, what I do find interesting is that it seems to be a certain group of individuals who commit nearly all the crime across the country,

 

Since less than 1% of crime is detected, how do we know who is committing 'nearly all' of it?

[Guest Peter James]

knight of the road - 2011-12-24 12:53 PM

 

How about 3 strikes and you're out, then the death penalty, harsh but it would work methinks.

 

Got to catch them first Malcolm.

Unfortunately it takes brains to do that, anybody can just increase the sentences.

 

Incidentally, if you were to offer the death penalty for third time petty theft, whats the chances of a couple on the jury finding them not guilty?

 

Even then it doesn't always work. In the days when they used to hang pickpockets, there would be people picking the pockets of the crowds watching the hangings. Presumably because they did not expect to get caught. If they did get caught they wouldn't think twice about stabbing somebody to get away, or silence witnesses, because they had nothing to lose when theft carried the same sentence as murder.

The ones being hung were probably innocent, fitted up to claim a reward.