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Winter fuel payments


nightrider

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Guest pelmetman

Good luck to em all I say.

 

Having never claimed any benefits whatsoever once I am entitled to the winter fuel payment I don't care where we are whether it be Spain or Portugal I fully intend claiming it.

 

SUE

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I've no problem with anyone claiming benefits that they have paid into over many years and especially the winter fuel allowence because it is damn cold over here in the winter.

Not quite happy with the allowence being paid to someone who ups stakes and moves to warmer climes though because they are not spending it on extra heating costs are they? perhaps the government should have said sorry but you can't have it if you live in a warmer climate, perhaps the government might look at this issue in order to save money? who knows.

PS dont drag me into any winter fuel spat.

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Having just read that I can't understand why it hasn't been picked up on before. Maybe it's because MPs bugger off to warmer climes once they've finished in Blighty. I ain't going to lose any sleep over it though.

I must thank BGD for providing the link and giving me the chance to ogle Miss Venezuela 8-)

I did smile at one of the comments regarding her ....

 

Those curves can make a man drool at 60 paces. Wish the women in the UK looked like that. All we have are foul mouthed ladettes with beer bellies and tatoos.

- Terry, Liverpool, 19/12/2011 11:36

 

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If you have ever spent any time in Spain in the winter you will know that whilst the days are certainly warmer than the UK the nights can be flippin cold and often just as cold as here.

 

Add to that the houses are not well insulated - if insulated at all - in Spain and you may come to realise that living in the sun can be chilly too and heating bills considerable.

 

Generalising, as most of those ex pats who choose to live in Spain do so because they can afford to, that suggests to me that most of them worked hard or achieved at least moderate success during their working time in the UK and thus contributed to the national wealth pot rather than to the national debt?

 

And on that basis good luck if you can get yourself an extra £200 that someone who has contributed nowt will now not get!

 

Cold is cold no matter where you live!

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Lord Braykewynde - 2011-12-19 11:59 AM

 

knight of the road - 2011-12-19 11:02 AM

 

Check out this mornings edition of the Daily Mail

 

 

Go wash your mouth out in holy water you naughty boy ;-) (lol)

Regarding the Daily Mail all I can say is this, if you do not get to my local paper shop early enough you will find that they have sold out of the Mail and all the other high falutin papers are still on the shelves, that must say something, yes?

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Guest pelmetman

You are so right Rich about the insulation or lack of it over in Spain.

 

Dave's father lives there and his house gets far colder of an evening than any house I've been into over here. The whole place is the usual tiles, tiles and tiles, Dave always calls it his "cell". The only heating he has is by portable electric heaters and one of those calor gas heaters that makes everywhere damp.

 

When we visited earlier in the year there was mould on the ceilings and the bedrooms smelt really musty.

 

I'm relieved that he can get a bit extra towards his heating costs!

 

Sue

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BGD - 2011-12-19 11:31 AM

 

Here's a link to the article:

 

 

 

Maybe the little pug dogs master could read the article out to it:

 

 

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2075917/Winter-fuel-payment-folly-As-UK-shivers-benefits-expats-warmer-climes-double-years.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

BGD - Put a coat on and stop taking all the money from the Uk !!!! After all Kathy & you only contributed millions over your careers !

 

Or your could get one of those little doggy jacket things - all the rage for doggies that cant afford anything. :-S

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On page 2 of todays Daily Mail there is another interesting article on what might happen if the Euro goes bottom up, it says a rescue deal is being sorted out to rescue stranded expats who might not be able to access money from banks, I also think that the government might start taking a closer look at where all our welfare benefits are going for example, winter fuel allowence, bus passes etc etc to well off people who dont really need them, millions of pounds could be saved and put to better use.
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Tracker - 2011-12-19 12:18 PM

 

If you have ever spent any time in Spain in the winter you will know that whilst the days are certainly warmer than the UK the nights can be flippin cold and often just as cold as here.

 

Add to that the houses are not well insulated - if insulated at all - in Spain and you may come to realise that living in the sun can be chilly too and heating bills considerable.

 

Generalising, as most of those ex pats who choose to live in Spain do so because they can afford to, that suggests to me that most of them worked hard or achieved at least moderate success during their working time in the UK and thus contributed to the national wealth pot rather than to the national debt?

 

And on that basis good luck if you can get yourself an extra £200 that someone who has contributed nowt will now not get!

 

Cold is cold no matter where you live!

Richard,

 

Yes cold is cold wherever you live, but when the winter fuel allowence was first mooted it was primaily for our old aged pensioners living here in the UK, no one ever thought that the fuel allowence would end up being spent abroad did they? if the fuel allowence is spent here a percentage of it would end up back in the governments coffers by way of VAT to be redistributed again as things are now that allowence is ending up in another countries coffers and they are benefitting, not us?

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So are you saying that we should reneage on the benefit to those who have contributed towards it all of their working lives whilst we hand out billions to wasters and illegals who have contributed nowt?

 

When - if - the benefits system gets made fair to ALL I will consider giving up my £200 but until that happens as a lifelong net contributer to this country's wealth pot I have no qualms whatsoever about myself or any one else regardless of where they live getting something for 'nothing'.

 

If you are a pensioner entitled to a pension that you have contributed to why should where you live affect your entitlement and just because some of us as individuals choose not to live abroad that does not in my view give us the right to exclude those who do from any benefit entitlement.

 

 

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Tracker - 2011-12-19 2:05 PM

 

So are you saying that we should reneage on the benefit to those who have contributed towards it all of their working lives whilst we hand out billions to wasters and illegals who have contributed nowt?

 

When - if - the benefits system gets made fair to ALL I will consider giving up my £200 but until that happens as a lifelong net contributer to this country's wealth pot I have no qualms whatsoever about myself or any one else regardless of where they live getting something for 'nothing'.

 

If you are a pensioner entitled to a pension that you have contributed to why should where you live affect your entitlement and just because some of us as individuals choose not to live abroad that does not in my view give us the right to exclude those who do from any benefit entitlement.

 

Richard,

Watch your spelling, I am not saying that we should renege on the winter fuel payments to expats, what I am saying is that it was badly thought out and a proviso should have been set that if you relocate to warmer climes where winter heating is not an issue it should be stopped but reinstated as and when you returned back to the UK, I honestly think that the government will cast a different light on various welfare payments at sometime in the future.

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No matter how much your perception may be otherwise Malcolm it is bloody cold at night in Spain in the winter - even in the South and if a pensioner in the UK is entitled to a payment I do not see why where he/she chooses to live should make any difference whatsoever.

 

As to whether the benefit was properly thought out in the first place - now that is a very different question and one that you did not ask initially!

 

Thanks for the spelling notification - I will offer the same courtesy to you when - if - the time comes that I think it matters!

 

 

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Tracker - 2011-12-19 3:23 PM

 

No matter how much your perception may be otherwise Malcolm it is bloody cold at night in Spain in the winter - even in the South and if a pensioner in the UK is entitled to a payment I do not see why where he/she chooses to live should make any difference whatsoever.

 

As to whether the benefit was properly thought out in the first place - now that is a very different question and one that you did not ask initially!

 

Thanks for the spelling notification - I will offer the same courtesy to you when - if - the time comes that I think it matters!

 

I added in the spelling mistake knowing that you can take a joke unlike some of our more sensitive members.

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knight of the road - 2011-12-19 3:36 PM

I added in the spelling mistake knowing that you can take a joke unlike some of our more sensitive members.

 

Who said I was less sensitive than other's member!

 

I am just as sensitive but don't always show it!

 

With apologies for the grammatickle error!

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I fail to see any problem here . if you have paid into the system and are entitled to ANY benefits under UK law irrespective of where you choose to spend your evening years ,why should you not get them, this smacks of jealousy to me, and that is the Worlds worst affliction to suffer from. (lol) (lol)
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vindiboy - 2011-12-19 4:52 PM

 

I fail to see any problem here . if you have paid into the system and are entitled to ANY benefits under UK law irrespective of where you choose to spend your evening years ,why should you not get them, this smacks of jealousy to me, and that is the Worlds worst affliction to suffer from. (lol) (lol)

There is no jealousy on my part seeing as we get the winter fuel allowence, whether or not you have paid into the system i still think it is wrong if you move to warmer climes and not using the allowence for what it was designed, cold in the UK.

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Guest pelmetman

Hi Malcom

 

I think you'll find that a lot of people who receive it in this country don't actually spend the money on fuel :-D

 

Sue

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knight of the road - 2011-12-19 4:57 PM

 

There is no jealousy on my part seeing as we get the winter fuel allowence, whether or not you have paid into the system i still think it is wrong if you move to warmer climes and not using the allowence for what it was designed, cold in the UK.

 

Correction: "There is no jealousy on my part considering we get the winter fuel allowance. Whether or not you have paid into the system, I still think it is wrong if you move to warmer climes and are not using the allowance for what it was designed; cold in the UK."

 

Sorry Malcolm, I could not resist! Hope you take it in good spirit.

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Colin Leake - 2011-12-19 4:34 PM

 

Just a thought but if one relocates to Australia should one expect ones Winter Fuel Payment to be made in June. Seems reasonable to me.

 

I have no knowledge of the winter fuel payment in Australia, but I know that they never receive any pension increases - it remains the same as when they left the UK. Pension increases are only paid if you relocate to countries in the EU.

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vindiboy - 2011-12-19 4:52 PM

 

I fail to see any problem here . if you have paid into the system and are entitled to ANY benefits under UK law irrespective of where you choose to spend your evening years ,why should you not get them ....

 

In practice some benefits, such as those connected to disability are not paid and some very sick people are having to fight for them. Also if you stay abroad for more than three months (it could be six now), your doctor is obliged to cross you off his list. Then when you return to the UK you have to ask him if he will still treat you, and if he agrees, you have to PAY no matter how long you paid NI and income tax for.

 

At the risk of repeating myself, many expats still have to pay income tax to the UK no matter how long they have lived abroad. Therefore, they are still contributing to the UK coffers.

 

I am sure there are also many benefit cheats of course as has been mentioned before.

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knight of the road - 2011-12-19 1:08 PM

 

Tracker - 2011-12-19 12:18 PM

 

If you have ever spent any time in Spain in the winter you will know that whilst the days are certainly warmer than the UK the nights can be flippin cold and often just as cold as here.

 

Add to that the houses are not well insulated - if insulated at all - in Spain and you may come to realise that living in the sun can be chilly too and heating bills considerable.

 

Generalising, as most of those ex pats who choose to live in Spain do so because they can afford to, that suggests to me that most of them worked hard or achieved at least moderate success during their working time in the UK and thus contributed to the national wealth pot rather than to the national debt?

 

And on that basis good luck if you can get yourself an extra £200 that someone who has contributed nowt will now not get!

 

Cold is cold no matter where you live!

Richard,

 

Yes cold is cold wherever you live, but when the winter fuel allowence was first mooted it was primaily for our old aged pensioners living here in the UK, no one ever thought that the fuel allowence would end up being spent abroad did they? if the fuel allowence is spent here a percentage of it would end up back in the governments coffers by way of VAT to be redistributed again as things are now that allowence is ending up in another countries coffers and they are benefitting, not us?

 

 

 

 

Soz Malcolm (and others), but memories on this seem to be short.

That really is not the real reason why the " Winter Fuel Allowance" was suddenly introduced at all.

 

It was announced in a massive rush, simply as a knee-jerk cynical sop and "grey-power" vote-winner by that congenital raving-idiot and squanderer of your money, Harriet Harman, in advance of the General Election.

That is why it was so ill-thought-through. It wasn't thought out or properly planned at all.

It was never stated that it would only be for UK OAP's living in the UK.

It was simply added as an extra, once a year bit of extra pension lump-sum to all in receipt of an Old Age State Pension (per household).

 

It was IMHO a very, very stupid idea.

It remains IMHO a very very stupid idea; but no Government has the balls to say so and change it into a means-tested additional benefit for the poorest pensioners.

So we are all stuck with it as it is - the poorest pensioner doesn't get any more because the millionaire is getting the same amount.....that's the Harman idea of "Equality" in spending your money, in practice.

 

 

 

But, and here's the big but, entitlement is not dependant upon wealth, or other income, or domicile, or where you spend it.

It's not a hypothicated State Benefit....you get it whether you paid a lot or a little on your heating bills; you get it simply as part of your entitlement to State Pension because you paid into the State coffers via National Insurance through your working life.

Indeed it was so ill-planned by the anti-male Harperson that at first it was only paid to men over 65 but to women at 60 - until a later European Court ruling that this was illegal.

 

It was and remains a frankly stupid benefit, and a stupidly un-targeted waste of taxpayers money.

But it exists.

I suggest that you don't blame those who receive it for receiving it. Blame the idiots in Government who set it up in the way that they did.

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