Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 There you go then, don't EVER go to the assistance of someone being verbally abused, or acting in a threatening manner against someone trying to do his job, another victory for common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 This was to be expected - all part of the sad PC world we now live in. Best thing this chap should do is to go to trail - in fact INSIST on a trial by Jury and not accept a simple caution which is what the powers that be will pressure him into doing. Any Jury, based upon the support he has received will acquit him. And that is important because its sets a precedent that the PC powers that be really do not want. I wish him luck. What’s the betting an internet "tip-jar" will soon be set up to fund his defence? I will stick in a tenner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Sorry folks, I beg to disagree. What 1foot has failed to mention is that the student has also been reported to the procurator Fiscal for tresspass, so may have to face court proceedings as well -- and I hope that he does. However that should not countenance the 'Big Man's' 'citizen's arrest', which was quite unneccessary -- particularly on a train. Unusually for a public servant, a train guard/conductor surely has easy access to the railway's own police force who should have been summoned to give him assistance. Because of his stupid pig-headed impatience, Alan Bullock (the 'big man') risked much more serious charges if he had seriously damaged (perhaps even killed -- if the drunken(?) student had landed on a 'live' line or had a life-threatening heart condition -- one never knows in these 'spur-of the-moment situations). No, folks, it is NEVER advisable to take the law into your own hands and only sets a seriously bad precedent, in a country respected for its rule of law. Colin. P.S. Clive -- I really don't see what 'political correctness has to do with this -- 'Two wrongs don't make a right' C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I'm not defending any alledeged ticket cheats or anti social behaviour but I've got to be honest,of the youtube footage I've seen,that "student" didn't strike me as being overly abusive,in fact I think he was just using phrases like "..I've got an f***in' ticket"..you can hear far worse,just walking down the street...and as he remained seated,I can't see how he was really being threatening...? (...and if people think that he was being abusive,I can only assume that that haven't travelled on many city centre night buses lately...;-) ) ...To my mind the ticket colllector,instead of delaying the train for ten minutes,should've just radioed ahead and arranged for the transport police to be waiting at the next stop... ...Would,folk have been clapping and cheering if it had've been an older person being manhandled?...or a woman maybe?..or is it just students wearing "hoodies" that it's okay to throw off trains...I wonder...? The fact is,you can't just just start grabbing hold of folk and chucking 'em off trains... Having said all of that,I would've thought that the student would've wanted to be keeping a low profile...and hoping that the whole episode just went away as quick as possible...that last thing I'd be doing is prolonging it with possible police proceedings.... :-S Edit:Sorry Colin,I seem to just have echoed some of your post...I must learn to type faster... :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Thanks for the support Pepe -- our two posts seem complementary to me -- no apology needed ;-) Cheers, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Coincidently a couple of days later a ticket collector was stabbed in a similar situation, no one came to his aide, perhaps he too should have radioed ahead, mmmmmmmmm, and of course there'e always a copper round when you need one in a hurry isn't there, recently my brother phoned the police following an "incident", they came the next morning......... >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 That's the whole point, 1 foot -- there was much more likelihood of a police officer dedicated to railway protection being available/ contactable quickly than anywhere else/ in other situations. As for a knife wielding psychopath -- no-one can allow for those -- which is another reason for NOT 'having a go' ................methinks. At least the poor man's family is likely to receive insurance/compensation from his employer -- which a 'have a go hero' is unlikely to receive in the same circumstances. Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Braykewynde Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 CliveH - 2011-12-21 2:35 PM What’s the betting an internet "tip-jar" will soon be set up to fund his defence? I will stick in a tenner. Make it twenty Clive and I'll give you the tenner when I see you (lol) I'll also buy the Big Man a drink if I ever see him around ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 With respect, surely the whole point is more and more the complaint is "it's nothing to do with me" when people ignore someone being threatened by others in whatever situation. The reality is to wait for "official" assistance is unless you live on another planet to me is likely to take a very very long time, especially if a risk assessment is carried out first, oh well I doubt we'll see eye to eye................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I don't think anyone is suggesting that these passengers should've just turned away and ignored what was going on....but,and I can only go by what I've seen on youtube,apart from the odd F word,the situation didn't seem at all volatile...and at no point did it appear as if the ticket collector or anyone else for that matter,was threatened with physical harm ... ...and sorry but just quoting instances,where someone else,somewhere else, had got stabbed,doesn't really have any relevance to this case... :-S Sorry off topic here...but about 10-12 years back I grabbed hold of a bloke who had been robbing folk at an ATM..I wrestled him to the ground and held him there,with his face down,arms up behind his back,strugglong for a good 15mins.During which time there was much "F"ing and blinding..he was going kill me...burn my house down etc etc..(..and with each "comment",his arms got pushed that little bit further up his back... ;-) ),now when the cops turned up,having been filled in on what happened,they just told me to make myself scarce...because they knew that it would be easier if I was just an "unknown" member of the public...Luckily back then,filming stuff on mobiles wasn't the "default setting"..if it was,who knows how complicated it could've got...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Braykewynde Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 The conductor alleges that this kid, just before the incident, stuck his foot out into the aisle trying to trip him up. Apart from that, if I was sat opposite with my wife and young children, I would probably have done what the 'big man' did despite some who have posted that ALL he seemed to be doing was effin' it. I was brought up in a home where I was taught it was unacceptable and I did likewise with my own kids. Yes it's to be expected around city centres late at night but that doesn't make it right and people should be able to travel in peace with their families without listening to foul mouthed morons who don't give a monkey's for anyone or anything, especially when they have a misguided father like him. No doubt it is normal in their family home. Unsurprisingly the authorities are undecided on whether to charge the immature imbecile with trespass for not having a ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Lord Braykewynde - 2011-12-21 6:00 PM .....The conductor alleges that this kid, just before the incident, stuck his foot out into the aisle trying to trip him up.... Yeah,it does make reference to the alledged trip here...along with the fact that the student had been sold the wrong ticket..!. *-) http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/transport/investigations-reveal-student-was-sold-wrong-ticket.16216486 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Wrong ticket or not,surely a better option was to offer to pay the fare,and correct the mistake if there was one later on, and not be drunk and abusive to someone trying to do what at times can be a very difficult job. There is simply no excuse for his kind of behaviour end of, why not make the world a nicer place and send out the clear message that effin and blindin is not acceptable, especially where there were young children nearby. It used to be called respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Braykewynde Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 pepe63 - 2011-12-21 6:55 PM Lord Braykewynde - 2011-12-21 6:00 PM .....The conductor alleges that this kid, just before the incident, stuck his foot out into the aisle trying to trip him up.... Yeah,it does make reference to the alledged trip here...along with the fact that the student had been sold the wrong ticket..!. *-) Ah I see. So because he was sold the wrong ticket and was annoyed it was ok in your eyes for his foul mouthed tirade *-) I understand now ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Braykewynde Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-12-21 7:28 PM It used to be called respect. Some wouldn't recognise respect if it bit them on their ass *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 'It takes one to recognise one' Sir Wyndbagge :D Snce when was 'respect' part of your armory on this forum? Your very form of presentation would seem to militate against any suggestion of 'respect' for other posters -- and you can't hide behind 'humour' as a defence -- it just ain't funny, just rude and disrespectful. Colin. >:-) P.S. And -- you still can't spell the good old Anglo-Saxon word a$$se preferring the Yankee form --which usually means donkey in this country -- very apt! C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 ..Eh!?..where did I say that his supposed "foul mouthed tirade" was acceptable?..I didn't..especially nit in front of kids etc..it's just that it wasn't grounds for being physically thrown off for.. ..and if we're going to start manhandling everyone we come across that we find swearing,then we're going to be very busy indeed... (lol) ...and as for respect..shouldn't that work both ways..after all,as that news item seems to show,that student was a paying customer..;-) ..and besides,he didn't get thrown off for swearing,he got thrown off because the conductor said that he hadn't paid..and he had! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Seems to be a lot of speculation about. Might be best to postpone judgement until after the hearings (?) ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Lord Braykewynde - 2011-12-21 6:00 PM Unsurprisingly the authorities are undecided on whether to charge the immature imbecile with trespass for not having a ticket. .....on the contrary; if indeed they are undecided, then they are not very conversant with the law. Travelling without a ticket would not be subject to a trespass charge; it could be dealt with under separate railway by-laws, but in England at least, the CPS would normally charge as a summary offence under The Railways Regulation Act, though under certain circumstances (I suspect not in question here) they might suggest the use of the somewhat more substantial Fraud Act. (Normal practice, however, would be (as has already been noted here) to call BT Police to meet the train at the next station, and under most circumstances, an agreement to pay would then be "arrived at" with no need for legal action). If a charge of Trespass is to be brought (uncommon in Scotland, but not unknown), I suspect that it will be for reason of Trespass on the Railway, which could be dealt with under one of several railway-specific acts. A number of the more reputable Newspapers (and even some of the less reputable) appear to be somewhat changing their position on the story as more "facts" come out. Whilst at least some of the behaviour of the student appears to have been reprehensible, there appears to now be some doubt as to whether he was missold ticket(s) - he does not as yet appear to have been "referred" for fare evasion - and a certain amount of evidence that he was rather more roughly treated than was necessary. It is also reported that he entered the permanent way to retrieve items that had ended up there (which is consistent with the theory of Trespass on the Railway). If the reason given is true, then I suspect the Procurator Fiscal will decide not to proceed on that charge. I know that some posters on here will disagree, but in general I don't believe the law (especially in Scotland, and even more so in the face of a You Tube Video ;-) ) is as complete an ass as some may think. Whilst I have no doubt that the hang 'em/flog 'em brigade on here would like to don the black cap, I think it will be very interesting to see the actual results of the due process of justice, hopefully resulting in the reporting of the real background of the case. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 And Robin, if, as it seems from the photographs of the injuries (if not self-inflicted) and the testimony of the young man, there IS a serious charge of ABH ( under English Law anyway) to be tried, then, if the 'Big man' is found guilty, the court should exact an appropriate penalty/sentence.Otherwise, where's the justice? Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I feel you are all missing one rather important point, apart from the guard also being suspended and likely to be fired. The point is that if some lowlife had not waved his/her mobile phone around and decided to make a hero of himself/herself by putting this on Facebook then 3 people would not now be facing ruin. The disturbance would then never have become public and satisfied a lot of titillation from the 'mob'. . I do hope the owner of the mobile feels very proud of themselves as they have completed a really good and nasty piece of work. Of course the owner of the mobile could have intervened and calmed things down, but then again that would not have been as much fun would it????? I make no excuses for any of those involved but regret the rise of organisations such as facebook and twitter that allow mostly people with little sense or value to flaunt their fantasies. What is even more disturbing is that so many equally sad people wish to read their dross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Dave225 - 2011-12-21 9:41 PM I feel you are all missing one rather important point, apart from the guard also being suspended and likely to be fired. The point is that if some lowlife had not waved his/her mobile phone around and decided to make a hero of himself/herself by putting this on Facebook then 3 people would not now be facing ruin. The disturbance would then never have become public and satisfied a lot of titillation from the 'mob'. . I do hope the owner of the mobile feels very proud of themselves as they have completed a really good and nasty piece of work. Of course the owner of the mobile could have intervened and calmed things down, but then again that would not have been as much fun would it????? I make no excuses for any of those involved but regret the rise of organisations such as facebook and twitter that allow mostly people with little sense or value to flaunt their fantasies. What is even more disturbing is that so many equally sad people wish to read their dross. ....oh no! I quite welcome the arrival of trial by Youtube. Judge, Jury and Executioner, all in one neat social-networking package. We may get a lot more verdicts "wrong", but at least the entertainment factor and the viewing figures will be high. That's all that matters, isn't it? Well, isn't it.? :-S :-S ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Braykewynde Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Symbol Owner - 2011-12-21 8:02 PM P.S. And -- you still can't spell the good old Anglo-Saxon word a$$se preferring the Yankee form --which usually means donkey in this country -- very apt! C. Oh yes I can, it's arse, not as you spell it, arrse (lol) Back to the drawing board Symbol me ol' butty (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 That's better! Sorry about the typo :$ Where do you get "Old Butty" from chris? The last time that I heard it was when I lived in the Forest of Dean -- it brought back happy nostalgic memories -- thanks! Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Braykewynde Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Not a term I hear a lot of these days but back in the 60s it was in common use in this area especially among footplate men. I'm pretty sure it's a Welsh term and living on the borders with a lot of Welsh footplate men who moved here for promotion, to become a driver, I would think it came with them. The Wye Valley Brewery does have a beer called Butty Bach so I would think the word bach gives credence to what I said above. Oops, edited for spelling before the Grammar Monitors pick up on it. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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