thirtle26 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Our leisure battery is ready for renewal and we wonder worth its worth going to the trouble of fitting two new ones. We have an Autocruise Sarasota and the battery fits nicely in its sunken container, If we have two, the second will have to be fitted next to the container but higher up. We were recenlty told about leisure batteries that were half the size of current ones, hence ligher, but don't know if these would do the job. The ultimate aim is to get a solar panel fitted (not sure who in Yorkshire will do this) to keep all batteries topped up. Advice needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 You just may have opened a BIG topic!! :-) However, for starters, do you know the size (capacity in Ah) of your existing battery, and what type it is? Second, do you find the existing battery limits how you use your van? Third, what leads you to conclude that you may need a solar panel? Fourth, roughly how many times per year do you use the van, for how long? Fifth, do you keep your van at home, or is it stored and, if stored, in the open or under cover? Sorry for all the questions, but the answers should help to inform the responses! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 If you use the van without hookup for more than a day or two at a time, especially when cold and dark, without moving on or running the engine for several hours two batteries will extend your off mains use by a bit less than double. They will also take longer to recharge by the engine which is where the solar panel comes into it's own. If you don't camp off site or away from a mains hookup I doubt you will ever need more capacity than the one leisure battery. It all depends when where and how you use the van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJP Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 There is not a definitive answer. It all depends what items you want to operate which are battery powered. If for example you are out in the middle of summer, no EHU and sit out in the warm sunny summer evenings and just use the van lights when going to bed, the pump to run water then 1 leisure battery is ample. BUT, if like us, we have just returned from 6 days away, no EHU, TV to watch the soaps *-) That's 2 hours a night, Breakfast and evening news TV, another hour, Dark nights and some days, so lights are on. Water pump for showers. Laptop to charge every other day. Bike batteries to charge etc. Then 1 battery will not suffice. We have a 85w solar panel (THE best accessory you will ever buy) and 4, yes four x 110 amp leisure batteries. You can never have too much reserve power. Got to be 2 and a solar panel if you don't want to use expensive sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankkia Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 We have three 140 ah batteries and 2 120w solar panels. Very rarely use a hook up as we are usually self sufficient even in winter in Portugal. Having said that, even if you don't bother with solar power. I would suggest 2 batteries are a sensible way to go if you spend much time off hook up. If your battery suddenly turns up its toes you should still have 1 as a back up until you can find a replacement. We had 1 pack in (only 7 years old poor thing) whilst we were in Germany but I merely disconnected the duff one and continued the rest of the hols on 2 - batteries are bloomin expensive in Germany . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 As Brian says, a big subject, and one that has 101 answers. You say your ultimate objective is to have a solar panel, in that case just fit one battery and a panel, if this still doesn't meet your needs add the second battery. As long term solar users we knew exactly what we wanted when getting the new van, one panel and one battery, but this may not suit you, but one big benifit is no worries of flat batteries if the van is not used for a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 As others have said it depends. To give the other side we have one battery no solar panels and have never had the battery run flat while away. However we nearly always use hookup so no need for two batteries. While the van is not being used in the winter I give it a run about once a month to turn things over but this does not charge the battery, it is usually completely flat when we go away. It is nearly four years old now and seems fine despite my lack of attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertandjean Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 As others have stated it depends on what you want to do. If, like us, you want to make best use of the French aires network then would suggest you fit two extra lesuire batteries (making three in all) plus a solar panel. With this, then certainly in the summer months, you should be able to stay as long as you want on the aires and make full use of sat T.V. etc. In the colder/darker months then seek out aires with hook-ups from time to time, and you should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrongpiper Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 There is another point about adding a second (or even third) battery, re its weight. Batteries weigh something around 30Kgs, and modern mass produced motohomes, in my experienced, have smaller user payload than the brochures claim. It is SO easy to exceed the MAM. Neil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrongpiper Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Also, forgot to include a Solar Panel in the excess weight consideration - another 30Kgs? Neil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 thirtle26 - 2012-01-02 5:26 PM ...We were recenlty told about leisure batteries that were half the size of current ones, hence ligher, but don't know if these would do the job... I'd like to know more about the half-size batteries that (presumably) can offer similar performance to standard size leisure batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I have often been told in the past that, size for size, and broadly speaking the heavier a battery the more lead that it contained and the more lead that it had the longer it lasted - but maybe 'modern' technology has overtaken that theory - in theory at least? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Tracker - 2012-01-04 11:47 AM I have often been told in the past that, size for size, and broadly speaking the heavier a battery the more lead that it contained and the more lead that it had the longer it lasted - but maybe 'modern' technology has overtaken that theory - in theory at least? There may be super-lightweight batteries for specialised applications (eg, hybrid cars), but, to the best of my knowledge, if one took a broad selection of, say, 110Ah batteries marketed for leisure-vehicle usage, there wouldn't be a huge variation in their 'volume' dimensions (ie. length x height x width), nor in their comparative weights. Some 110Ah batteries might be a bit more compact than others; some might be 2 or 3 kgs lighter than others; but nothing like a 50% difference either in dimensions or weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Agree with all the above, we really need more info as to the type of hols / weekends you do. To open another can of worms, and again depending on what you want to do and were you want to go there is allways the portable genny option.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWO Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 ips - 2012-01-04 3:29 PM To open another can of worms, and again depending on what you want to do and were you want to go there is allways the portable genny option.... Preferably a cheap East European 2 stroke one, Lots of smoke and noise. HWO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Yep thats the one .... :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neillking Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 If not sure just how much reserve power you'll need you might like to think about the simple rule of thumb we offer customers - for most people needing more independent power the total battery Ahrs should be at least twice the Solar wattage. So - if planning on adding an 80-90W panel aim to install 160-180Ahrs of batteries, more isn't a problem so 2x 110s would be fine, 2x 75s would be slightly marginal but probably still OK. Our own experience with adding twin leisure batteries was good but greatly enhanced when we added the Solar too. Our own solar controller has an overspill outlet to maintain the starter battery too - a handy feature. I have a personal preference for AGM batteries but there are many many different opinions on this topic! You can of course go on and on adding reserve but cost and weight/space usually limit how far it is sensible to go. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxfordMorgan Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Hi Thirtle26, fellow Autocruise Sarasota owner here! We have 100Ah Numax main leisure battery which, together with a 70W solar panel, has been fine for our Spring, Summer & Autumn touring. The issue you and I both have is the Eberspacher Heater which uses HUGE amounts of power to start up and during Winter with central heating and hot water etc. will chomp through a battery in a couple of days, so I have also bought a secondary battery to keep in the van for Winter touring. As well as the 100Ah Numax (good battery) I have bought a 135Ah Enduroline battery as this is the largest capacity battery I could find to (hopefully) fit in the floor compartment - I will let you know if it fits next week when it arrives 8-) We will not be wiring them up together as the cupboard space above the battery is FAR too useful for shoes and other items, so instead, I have screwed down a battery holder in the space under the Dinette seat near the water pump to hold the spare battery when not in use. When one runs out, I just swap them over. Also, definitely, definitely get yourself a decent battery charger conditioner ( we use Ctek mxs7) to charge and if necessary, condition the batteries before you go out touring l As far as Battery of half the size for the same power..its rubbish... don't waste your time and money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 OxfordMorgan - 2012-01-04 7:31 PM We will not be wiring them up together as the cupboard space above the battery is FAR too useful for shoes and other items, so instead, I have screwed down a battery holder in the space under the Dinette seat near the water pump to hold the spare battery when not in use. When one runs out, I just swap them over. I located the second battery in our Starlet by creating a secure 'locker' between the end of the seat/bed base and the n/s passenger seat as it is exactly the right size, is an otherwise dead space, and was simple to wire in with heavy duty cable. I'm not familiar with the Sarasota layout and it might not work for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buxton-arts Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I spend a number of months wildcamping every year in the UK and EU (VW T5 having all LED lights, laptop, tv and Waeco fridge and a 110 AH leisure battery). Over many years I have never had a flat leisure battery ! Why .... I am juditious with the fridge use (generally having it on and cooling when motoring but not when static) ... and ... either I travel every day (even if its just to the beach or shops) or, if I'm immobile for more than a day, I run the engine for 1/2 hr to charge the battery. Do the calculation ... diesel burn for 1/2 hr every day or two when you do not move the van (this circumstance is unusual for me - what about you ... how often are you totally static for days on end?) cost=? Calculate total extra diesel used/year on extra top up charging. Then work out how much diesel you can buy for the cost of a good, fitted solar panel (£400 ???) For my van and type of usage I calculate it would take me 15-20 years before the solar paid for itself !!! I'll stick to pottering down to the beach and shops every day or so thanx :-) This view is at variance with that expressed on page 186 of the Jan 2012 MMM magazine .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 OxfordMorgan - 2012-01-04 7:31 PM We will not be wiring them up together as the cupboard space above the battery is FAR too useful for shoes and other items, so instead, I have screwed down a battery holder in the space under the Dinette seat near the water pump to hold the spare battery when not in use. When one runs out, I just swap them over. All due respect, but this is one sure way to wreck your primary battery. When it runs out it needs to be recharged as soon as possible to prevent sulphation. Batteries also age just sitting there not being used. ( Wreck is a bad term fro me to use, lets say wear it out a lot quicker than need be) With out going into a long explanation, you will get longer service life and value from the batteries if you connect together and use as a pair. Then when you use say the equivalent capacity of battery number one it is only discharged half as much, giving about 4 times the life you would get if you discharged fully. It is not hard to wire together, I appreciate routing a cable might be difficult, but its not that hard as the cable probably runs near the seat anyway on way to 1st battery. Not ideal not having together side by side, but is better than swapping over when one is flat. Keeping separate also means how to you recharge and wire so they are connected for charging together and separate in use. If you have flattened each then you want to connect both to alternator. So you might as well simplify and run the two in parallel. I respect your reasoning though and maybe there is more you have not mentioned, like battrey No 1 is well used and do not want to link a new one with old because it might fail soon anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxfordMorgan Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 hmmm....some good feedback, but it does depend on your view of what is ideal or not, and what is simple or not... Admittedly, there is more info about batteries I left out, for example, after every trip I remove them from the van, the use my CTEK to either Charge or condition them, so they are kept in optimum condition. I also never let them completely discharge, swapping them before it all goes wrong. (I learned the hard way after killing a 100Ah battery by letting it fully discharge in the van..) The issue with the Sarasota is that the battery compartment is hidden away under the floor of a really useful cupboard, so to have 2 batteries next to each other, and lose the cupboard space is not (for me anyway), worth it. Thirtle26 may not use this cupboard so much, so a parallel set-up maybe perfect. The batteries are currently on opposite sides of the van with no real way of linking together, and trying to link together would mean re-wiring almost all of the electrics, so having a spare battery and manually swapping them is a far better solution for me. I know there are advantages to having them linked, as you discussed, from ease of charging to sharing out the load (but not 4x the lifetime..), however, for me, its too much of a compromise to lose the cupboard space, when it only takes me 2 mins to swap them around - they are also different Ah. As with most things motor home related, there is no right or wrong way, as everybody's needs are different, and I am just sharing a way that works for me to overcome a problem with the same van. BTW the 135Ah battery fits like a dream in the compartment! OM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Frankkia - 2012-01-02 8:36 PM We had 1 pack in (only 7 years old poor thing) whilst we were in Germany but I merely disconnected the duff one and continued the rest of the hols on 2 - batteries are bloomin expensive in Germany . How did you know which one was the duff one? (assuming they were connected in parallel?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 OxfordMorgan - 2012-01-05 2:16 PM - they are also different Ah. Is there a problem with connecting different Ah batteries in parallel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 OxfordMorgan - 2012-01-05 2:16 PM...............................The issue with the Sarasota is that the battery compartment is hidden away under the floor of a really useful cupboard, so to have 2 batteries next to each other, and lose the cupboard space is not (for me anyway), worth it. Thirtle26 may not use this cupboard so much, so a parallel set-up maybe perfect. The batteries are currently on opposite sides of the van with no real way of linking together, and trying to link together would mean re-wiring almost all of the electrics, so having a spare battery and manually swapping them is a far better solution for me...............................OM I hope I'm not misunderstanding, if I am my apologies, but I don't think there is any need to co-locate the batteries merely to connect them together so that they perform as one battery. Also, if I am still on the right wavelength, there is no need for them to be of the same capacity: age and type yes, but not (at least within reason) capacity. The batteries should be connected in parallel, and would then look to the charging system/s, and to each other, as though they are one. If they are on opposite sides of the van you would need heavy cables for the interlinks (to counter voltage drop), and I think I am right in saying you should cable link both terminals on both batteries (i.e. not just + linking, with each battery connected to a local earth point), with a suitable capacity fuse at both ends of the + interlink cable. Could the linking cables not be run under the van, rather than through it, so wiring disruption would be minimal, being only the cable links between battery posts? With that arrangement you would at least be free of the need to hump heavy batteries between two places and, as Brambles says, the working lives of both should be extended because neither would be discharged so deeply in use. Once you discharge a battery below about 60% of its nominal capacity, you are entering the injury zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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