starvin marvin Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I need some advice and direction. We have, depending on the advice we recieve from you guys, decided to bite the bullet and get a system installed. I've today started to research this whole can of worms. First problem is I'm a complete Sat TV novice, in fact I'm a TV novice preferring radio. I'm attracted to automatic dome systems due to a number of factors, not least their lower weight. The bulk of our time in the van is spent outside the UK, generally in France, usually passing thro'on route to Spain and Portugal.TV reception is NOT the main priority, useful to have but not a show stopper. My thoughts are with a budget of £2,000 I want to buy say a dome, Sat reciever, 16" LED TV, mounting bracket, including the fitting. Hopefully something in this price range would allow me to pick up BBC R4 etc. I don't need to be able to listen to the radio whilst on the move, we just play our i-Pod. The vehicle is a Hymer B584 with the TV cabinet immediately next to the wardrobe which currently houses a crank up aerial. I would want this removing and the "dome" fitted directly over the current roof penetration. Over to you guys, what or where would you recommend, as a starting point? I'm based in the East Mids. Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 From your post, you are not a Sky subsciber, and therefore you will be looking at a free-to-air system - this means a system not tied to any particular subscriber. The Freesat system you may have heard about is really a UK only system with tuners designed to match the service provision. A free to air (FTA) satellite tuner will allow you to receive signals from any of the main satellites. This subject can be complicated and baffling to the innocent but in essence you have...... Astra 1 at 19.2 deg east of south serving Europe with few UK channels Astra 2 at 28.2 deg east of south serving UK and Europe incl Sky and BBC/ITV etc Eurobird at 28.5 deg east of south serving UK europ with FTA and Sky channels With an automatic dome you can set it to access any of these satellites and receive all the channels that are non encrypted. The farther south you move, the more difficult it is to pick up the 'normal UK' type channels as they are directed specifically in beam covering the UK. Other UK channels can be picked up as you travel south. I am a sky subscriber and can still pick up the sports and movie channels much further south than the BBC/ITV etc. Radio channels may be different, i dont have much experience of FTA radio - sorry. There will be some more experienced users of FTA than me who can help but i think a dome would be the way to go as it is far simpler to lock onto the satellite not having used a dish before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Thanks for the reply Bolero Boy, you're dead right I'm not a Sky subsriber, however I'm open to suggestions over the type of satellite reciever I should buy/rent? I'm certainly not interested in anything other than having a system that with one or two pushes of a button that does the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 If you spend most of your time in Spain and Portugal why would you want a dome with a maximum dish diameter of about 40cms? A dome will be useless beyond Barcelona for most stations restricting your viewing mainly to Sky News and absolutely trash foreign TV from Astra 19 and Hotbird. I would get the biggest dish possible - say an 85cms which could be purchased within your budget. TV reception tends to drop off as you travel south beyond Barcelona but recovers again beyond the Costa Blanca. You might not get every channel but your chances of getting TV will markedly improve with a larger dish. Tell your satellite supplier where you will mainly use the dish so that he can skew the lnb in favour of that area. An indication of prices can be found here: http://www.adventure-motorhomes.co.uk/page52aa.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyg3nwl Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Hi, I beleive that for any UK TV reception in Spain (or presumably Portugal as well, a small dish of around 40 cms will be worthless unless you are extremely lucky. Can I suggest that you have a good look at the various offerings from Road Pro, who among other things publish a satellite coverage map and typical dish sizes required for reception that far south. BBC services are now more tightly focussed on UK so I doubt that you will get much once you cross into Spain, Sky services are carried on 2 different "beams", the "normal"one being the North beam, focussed on UK, but there is a South beam if you know how to alter the sky box settings. RoadPro have some relevant info. Freesat services seem to be more designed for UK beams and again a larger dish would certainly be required in deep south or portugal area. I hear that uk residents living in deepest darkest south of spain have to use dishes as big as 3 metres diameter to receive UK services, and there are some privately set up relay networks for some of the developments out there. Since you mention a preference for radio services I wonder about a shortwave receiving setup , but that doesn't seem a likely suitable option. In the past, we have carried an 80 cm freestanding dish to work with an old Sky box, and this has functioned well down to the south of France, but it requred careful alignment , and is not automatic of course. An AVTEK tv of suitable type will be capable of tuning to local terrestial TV services, but that means you will need to learn the local language, except of course if you are within range of Gibraltar TV Hope this might be of some help tonyg3nwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 As I said, if you are a Sky subscriber their sports and movies are aailable on a small dish in spain but there needs to be a little tuning of which beam to receive from - only the traditional UK channels are restricted to the UK beam. For non Sky subscribers looking to pick up something from the UK beam, a very large dish is required. The OP mentioned keeping weight down, and aligning one of these things would tax most people let alone a novice. For quick tuning you cant beat a dome - the question is, can the OP get his radio stations via satellite in Spain. I suspect a Sky subscriber could but FTA I am not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neillking Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I would't go for a dome unless needing the in-motion capability. Yes their benefits are well publicised but their downsides aren't - the rather small dish, and that permanent increase in height which can be a real pain. An auto dish will do everything a dome will do and more - as long as it isn't very windy, their own particular downside. The weight isn't that much different and the profile folded can be down in the 15-20cm range even on a decent 85cm dish. Roadpro do offer a good range but there are others too - I'm quite a fan of Oyster for example. Remember that the receiver can be changed easily and cheaply, it's the dish you need to get right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Just a thought really, if it is just English language radio,why not BBC world service either via shortwave or LW, or even FM, take a look here for more info if it's not something you have already considered. We have this set and it is excellent. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-ICFSW7600G-ICF-SW7600GR-World-Radio/dp/B00005ML49/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top And the radio guide info here http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmeguide/ We take a PVR away with us that I pre-record loads of stuff on, from the likes of the "yesterday" channels etc. £300 all in to do the job. ;-) P.S just read this but cannot vouch that it is accurate for all of Europe purely from personal experience of not having been to all of Europe ( yet ). If you are from the UK and you go abroad within continental Europe, you can tun into BBC Radio 4 on 198 khz Longwave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Lots of info here http://www.satelliteforcaravans.co.uk/ But not so much on radio reception. p.s.A quick check tells me most BBC radio stations are carried on Astra 2b south beam so should be able to picked up with same dish size as Sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Mike88 - 2012-01-04 2:33 PM If you spend most of your time in Spain and Portugal why would you want a dome with a maximum dish diameter of about 40cms? A dome will be useless beyond Barcelona for most stations restricting your viewing mainly to Sky News and absolutely trash foreign TV from Astra 19 and Hotbird. I would get the biggest dish possible - say an 85cms which could be purchased within your budget. TV reception tends to drop off as you travel south beyond Barcelona but recovers again beyond the Costa Blanca. You might not get every channel but your chances of getting TV will markedly improve with a larger dish. Tell your satellite supplier where you will mainly use the dish so that he can skew the lnb in favour of that area. An indication of prices can be found here: http://www.adventure-motorhomes.co.uk/page52aa.html Thanks Mike, as I've said I'm not really interested in receiving TV, its the Radio I'm interested in. TV reception would be a bonus. I'll try your link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 tonyg3nwl - 2012-01-04 3:20 PM Hi, I beleive that for any UK TV reception in Spain (or presumably Portugal as well, a small dish of around 40 cms will be worthless unless you are extremely lucky. Can I suggest that you have a good look at the various offerings from Road Pro, who among other things publish a satellite coverage map and typical dish sizes required for reception that far south. BBC services are now more tightly focussed on UK so I doubt that you will get much once you cross into Spain, Sky services are carried on 2 different "beams", the "normal"one being the North beam, focussed on UK, but there is a South beam if you know how to alter the sky box settings. RoadPro have some relevant info. Freesat services seem to be more designed for UK beams and again a larger dish would certainly be required in deep south or portugal area. I hear that uk residents living in deepest darkest south of spain have to use dishes as big as 3 metres diameter to receive UK services, and there are some privately set up relay networks for some of the developments out there. Since you mention a preference for radio services I wonder about a shortwave receiving setup , but that doesn't seem a likely suitable option. In the past, we have carried an 80 cm freestanding dish to work with an old Sky box, and this has functioned well down to the south of France, but it requred careful alignment , and is not automatic of course. An AVTEK tv of suitable type will be capable of tuning to local terrestial TV services, but that means you will need to learn the local language, except of course if you are within range of Gibraltar TV Hope this might be of some help tonyg3nwl Thanks, but not much help. I want to be able to listen to Radio in preference to watching TV, which not of much interest to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Perhaps you've missed my post, ( about 4 above this ) 1foot ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 neillking - 2012-01-04 4:07 PM I would't go for a dome unless needing the in-motion capability. Yes their benefits are well publicised but their downsides aren't - the rather small dish, and that permanent increase in height which can be a real pain. An auto dish will do everything a dome will do and more - as long as it isn't very windy, their own particular downside. The weight isn't that much different and the profile folded can be down in the 15-20cm range even on a decent 85cm dish. Roadpro do offer a good range but there are others too - I'm quite a fan of Oyster for example. Remember that the receiver can be changed easily and cheaply, it's the dish you need to get right. Thanks, I realise that the most important thing is the dish. The weight of an auto 65cm dish is 19kg, whilst the weight of a 40cm dome is 10.8kg which I think is significant. Height is not a problem as we have roof mounted air-con. So a dome won't add much in the way of height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neillking Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Many of us listen to radio through a satellite TV receiver and TV. There are many channels available on SKY, Freesat and FTA. I even do it at home. Once Satellite reception issues are sorted out (broadly the same for TV and radio) the change from TV to radio is seamless, just a different channel number. The good news though is that the radio channels are not on the same restricted beam as BBCTV/ITV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neillking Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 starvin marvin - 2012-01-04 4:39 PM Thanks, I realise that the most important thing is the dish. The weight of an auto 65cm dish is 19kg, whilst the weight of a 40cm dome is 10.8kg which I think is significant. Height is not a problem as we have roof mounted air-con. So a dome won't add much in the way of height. Still the small dish though - this is less of an issue for radio but will remove the BBC/ITV 'bonus' once you get far from blighty. 8kgs a lot? 6 bottles of wine, surely no big deal, what's your payload? That would be less than 1% of mine. Each to his own though I'm not pushing any agenda here, I just think it is wise (on major items) to cater for the world you don't yet know rather than shutting out options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-04 4:21 PM Just a thought really, if it is just English language radio,why not BBC world service either via shortwave or LW, or even FM, take a look here for more info if it's not something you have already considered. We have this set and it is excellent. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-ICFSW7600G-ICF-SW7600GR-World-Radio/dp/B00005ML49/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top And the radio guide info here http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmeguide/ We take a PVR away with us that I pre-record loads of stuff on, from the likes of the "yesterday" channels etc. £300 all in to do the job. ;-) P.S just read this but cannot vouch that it is accurate for all of Europe purely from personal experience of not having been to all of Europe ( yet ). If you are from the UK and you go abroad within continental Europe, you can tun into BBC Radio 4 on 198 khz Longwave Thanks for the info, I've never really been able to pick up radio via SW, LW or FM in any reliable way once south of Tours, with the odd exception being either early in the morning or late at night or at altitude. What I want is reliable radio reception and if and I repeat IF I recieve TV then that is a bonus. TV in pre-recorded format does not appeal much, it will be the same rubbish I'm trying to avoid on a daily basis. I assure you I've tried many times to tune into 198 LW with very little success, very hit and miss. As I've said its reliable reception that I require. I can remember being in another campers van, south of Valencia and briefly watched TV and listened to BBC Radio, all picked up on a dome. I'll check the links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Interesting stuff all this, but I do wonder if the radio you have is not up to the job, might be worth a £100 punt rather than a £2000 one. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Re short wave and BBC on WS, we tried that and in the end gave up! Short wave is a world of its own, and the transmitter frequency changes at different times of the day. It is also very interference prone. Additionally, for good reception it requires a specialised aerial. Once you get there, we found the BBC WS carries few "normal" UK programmes, and is a bit like a UK version of Voice of America. It is predominantly outward looking and propagandising. The programmes are all broadcast to GMT, so locally you can be up to a couple of hours out in summer (three if further east!), and the programme guides are only available monthly in advance from the BeeB. If going that route my recommendation would be to get a good SW set, which will be expensive, and avoid anything that is just a standard FM set with SW availability, as they lack the tuner sensitivity and the tuning accuracy to get good reception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 neillking - 2012-01-04 4:44 PM Many of us listen to radio through a satellite TV receiver and TV. There are many channels available on SKY, Freesat and FTA. I even do it at home. Once Satellite reception issues are sorted out (broadly the same for TV and radio) the change from TV to radio is seamless, just a different channel number. The good news though is that the radio channels are not on the same restricted beam as BBCTV/ITV. What do you mean "...once satellite reception issues are sorted out......etc" Don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neillking Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Reception issues in fringe locations are largely controlled by dish size and lnb skew. These issues will vary according to which satellite or beam your program is transmitted from/on and where you are in relation to the appropriate footprint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 We have a 40cm Dome, and are happy with the progs we can get in Spain/Portugal, Had ours for 4 years now. I would certainly have a word with Nick Stevens at Adventure motor homes as previous poster suggested The height does make us over 3mtrs, but like you we also have roof mounted Air Con, so not a real problem PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 neillking - 2012-01-04 4:52 PM starvin marvin - 2012-01-04 4:39 PM Thanks, I realise that the most important thing is the dish. The weight of an auto 65cm dish is 19kg, whilst the weight of a 40cm dome is 10.8kg which I think is significant. Height is not a problem as we have roof mounted air-con. So a dome won't add much in the way of height. Still the small dish though - this is less of an issue for radio but will remove the BBC/ITV 'bonus' once you get far from blighty. 8kgs a lot? 6 bottles of wine, surely no big deal, what's your payload? That would be less than 1% of mine. Each to his own though I'm not pushing any agenda here, I just think it is wise (on major items) to cater for the world you don't yet know rather than shutting out options. 6 bottles of wine to someone who doesn't drink is a lot to lug around. I'm not looking to "shut out" any options I'm simply looking to be able to recieve BBC Radio 4 etc with the bonus of TV on occasions. Let me worry about payload issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-04 4:56 PM Interesting stuff all this, but I do wonder if the radio you have is not up to the job, might be worth a £100 punt rather than a £2000 one. ;-) I'm sorry 1footinthegrave, but i've already taken a number of punts on radio recievers that don't deliver. World Space to name one at a good £100 plus which is now in my shed down the allotment. Generally they have all been a waste of time and money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 PJay - 2012-01-04 5:08 PM We have a 40cm Dome, and are happy with the progs we can get in Spain/Portugal, Had ours for 4 years now. I would certainly have a word with Nick Stevens at Adventure motor homes as previous poster suggested The height does make us over 3mtrs, but like you we also have roof mounted Air Con, so not a real problem PJay Ah, now thats interesting. However I've never heard of Adventure M/H's. where are they? who are they? Do you listen to BBC Radio recieved on your dome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Nick is quite close to us - he is at Bridgwater in somerset and specialises in satellite eqipment for motorhomes. Try his link posted earlier, he can also fit while you wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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