breathylizers

[derek pringle]

Hi,

It was on the BBC Breakfast show this morning stating that France ARE introducing compulsory breathylizers and the confiscation of sat-navs that detect safety/speed cameras [i assume this means if the option is activated]. Did anybody else see this or have any further news update?

Something else to buy I suppose.

cheers

derek

[Guest JudgeMental]

mandatory breathaliser I dont get...what if you are tea total *-)

[derek pringle]

It means I think that ifyou have a drink you are responsible for checking yourself with a kit or machine.These things will be sold at ferry terminals and the like. You obviously would not need to check for alcohol if you do not drink, just you could not plead you did not know you were over the limit.

Try bbc i player it may be on there.

cheers

derek

[whisturx]

With reference to turning off your sat nav speed camera warning, does that mean the French are going to remove all the roadside warning signs telling you that there is a speed camera ahead ?

 

I don't think so !!! My TomTom only picks up the cameras with a great big sign warning they are there !!

 

Daft !!

[hallii]

I couldn't believe that they would be so stupid, but they are, not only can you not have the sat nav speed camera warnings turned on but you cannot even have them in the sat nav.

 

The new law bans ‘driver aids’ which incorporate data giving a warning of where speed cameras are located. So just having the data in memory must mean that the data is so incorporated?

 

If you have a data base that contains warnings of dangerous conditions, that may or may not incorporate camera warnings then that is apparantly OK.

 

The Policeman is not allowed to enter you vehicle just to check your sat nav.

 

What a load of codswallop!

 

I bet the breathalysers are made in France? I hope they are better than the breast implants:-)

 

H

 

 

:-) :-)

[hallii]

hallii - 2012-01-05 4:46 PM

 

I couldn't believe that they would be so stupid, but they are, not only can you not have the sat nav speed camera warnings turned on but you cannot even have them in the sat nav.

 

The new law bans ‘driver aids’ which incorporate data giving a warning of where speed cameras are located. So just having the data in memory must mean that the data is so incorporated?

 

If you have a data base that contains warnings of dangerous conditions, that may or may not incorporate camera warnings then that is apparantly OK.

 

The Policeman is not allowed to enter you vehicle just to check your sat nav.

 

What a load of codswallop!

 

I bet the breathalysers are made in France? I hope they are better than the breast implants:-)

 

H

 

 

:-) :-)

 

Tomtom are on the ball, the website says

"We are working on a new service for France that warns you about danger zones instead of speed cameras."

 

So low volume warning for everthing that is not a speed camera and it's legal.

H

[eljay]

The latest information as I understand it on some / all the "safety related" changes.

 

>> Motorists in France will be required by law to carry an ethylotest (breath test kit) from around Easter time. This would be a simple device costing, in France €1 to €2 each. Failure to have such a device could mean a fine of €11.

 

>> There will be the installation of some 400 new speed cameras with the introduction of next generation radar units which will have the capability to determine the relevant maximum speed limit for a particular (type of ??)vehicle.

 

>> The present signs which indicate fixed radar devices will be progressively changed to signs warning of "accident danger area"

 

>> There will be sharply increased fines for use of mobile phones whilst driving.

 

I find it very difficult to see the reasoning behind the banning of radar site warning devices when the international map and guide publisher, Michelin, includes fixed radar installation sites within its information pages in the front of the map book I have.

 

J

[Rayjsj]

I don't get It, I don't drink......why should i have to carry a Breathalyser kit ???

It's like telling me I have to carry an Ashtray, even though I don't smoke ? Weird.

 

And I can just see the Gendarme waiting patiently while i scroll through the options on my Tom Tom to prove that I don't have a 'Camera locations' POI, added.!!!! what a waste of time and money. (of course the 'spot fines' will pay for HIS wasted time). *-) Ray

 

I've heard of some stupid laws before, but these take the biscuit. talk about bringing the law into disrepute.

[Basil]

This has been done to death on a previous thread, however as I understood it partly from the previous thread Sat Nav's containing speed camera data are NOT going to be illegal at all only devices that DETECT speed cameras. This is also borne out by the French Embassy interperated on the AA website see

 

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/radar-detectors-in-france.html

 

As regards the breathalisers, I cannot see what possible use having a 'DIY' kit in the car is going to make. If you have one in your car and have been drinking would you use it? Anyone who is drunk probably wouldn't anyway, so just what is the point, as I see it just another stupid law along with some of the others the French have.

 

Bas

[Brian Kirby]

whisturx - 2012-01-05 12:59 PM.............................does that mean the French are going to remove all the roadside warning signs telling you that there is a speed camera ahead ?

 

I don't think so !!! My TomTom only picks up the cameras with a great big sign warning they are there !!

 

Daft !!

According to reports, that is exactly what it means. You will still get a speed limit sign, but that is all. If you are exceeding the limit, and get caught, you will be fined, points etc. It is to reduce the temptation to slow before the cameras, and then speed up. Since French police have for years used unannounced concealed radar traps as well as pre-notified fixed cameras, I can't really see what difference it makes. Apparently the future tendency will be to warn of accident zones, rather than of the radars. That seems to me far more sensible.

[Brian Kirby]

Basil - 2012-01-07 12:48 PM........................As regards the breathalisers, I cannot see what possible use having a 'DIY' kit in the car is going to make. If you have one in your car and have been drinking would you use it? Anyone who is drunk probably wouldn't anyway, so just what is the point, as I see it just another stupid law along with some of the others the French have. Bas

I'm guessing, but simply to remove any possibility of drivers who have been stopped and tested and found to be over the limit, claiming any extenuating circumstances. My drink was laced etc. They will now simply throw the book at you, on the basis you should have had the tester in your vehicle, and should have used it before driving. It is still the case that a high proportion of accidents in France are alcohol related. I think they just want to get the drunks off the road (and into those cute little Aixam cars for which no licence is required, and so no ban (presently) effective). Boozers cars, or equivalent, I think the French call them! :-)

 

But hey, why go abroad of you don't enjoy the differences? The whole world can't be like the UK, just think how boring that would be. (lol)

[Basil]

Brian Kirby - 2012-01-07 1:14 PM

 

.................I'm guessing, but simply to remove any possibility of drivers who have been stopped and tested and found to be over the limit, claiming any extenuating circumstances. My drink was laced etc. But hey, why go abroad of you don't enjoy the differences? The whole world can't be like the UK, just think how boring that would be.................... (lol)

 

Ok yes, I can see that possibility. I go abroad because there are differences I like and certainly wouldn't want it to be like the UK, I just don't see the point of ludicrous laws.

In my opinion there should be a zero alcahol allowance i.e. if you drink you don't drive or if you are driving you don't drink, that is what I do myself so I have no 'beef' with laws against drink driving, I just failed to see any reason or purpose for having a personal breatherliser kit until your response.

 

I do have to say though presumably someone who has had their drink 'laced' wouldn't know they need to test themselves, so again how does the kit help the situation or are you guessing that someone should breath test themselves before every car journey?

 

Bas

[Derek Uzzell]

Basil - 2012-01-07 12:48 PM

 

This has been done to death on a previous thread, however as I understood it partly from the previous thread Sat Nav's containing speed camera data are NOT going to be illegal at all only devices that DETECT speed cameras. This is also borne out by the French Embassy interperated on the AA website see

 

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/radar-detectors-in-france.html

 

As regards the breathalisers, I cannot see what possible use having a 'DIY' kit in the car is going to make. If you have one in your car and have been drinking would you use it? Anyone who is drunk probably wouldn't anyway, so just what is the point, as I see it just another stupid law along with some of the others the French have.

 

Bas

 

The information on the AA link you've provided does not cover forthcoming changes in French motoring regulations.

 

For many years it has been illegal to CARRY (never mind use) an ACTIVE radar-detecting device in a vehicle being driven in France.

 

However, it has been (and at the moment still is) legally permissible to carry and use in France in-vehicle devices able to provide information PASSIVELY about safety cameras and zones where speed-checkiing is often carried out. Such devices include sat-navs that have 'safety-camera alerts' as part of their standard (or optional) GPS-exploiting software. That's what's going to change, with PASSIVE devices that provide information SPECIFICALLY about safety-camera/speed-check zones also being outlawed.

 

I don't care about the compulsory breathalyser. It will only cost a couple of euros at most, so it will hardly tear a hole in a driver's wallet. French motoring law demands that a high-visibilty vest and warning-triangle be carried in each vehicle being driven in France and that makes considerable sense to me. It would (in my view) be sensible for French vehicles to also have to carry a first-aid kit , as is already mandatory in certain other EU countries. When I drive in France I carry two high-viz vests, a triangle, a first-aid kit and a (non-mandatory) set of spare bulbs and I hope never to use any of these items. If France wants me to add a tuppenny ha'penny breathalyser kit to this 'emergency' equipment then I'll just do it, and I don't give a fig about the rationale behind the French law or the law's practical value.

 

 

[Basil]

Thank you Derek, of course we will comply with the French laws along with all the others as we do with the ones you have mentioned which I can see the point of, I just cannot see, with the exception of Brians point what possible use they are.

As you say they are only cheap presumably you can you point me in the direction of where you have seen them for that price as I have been unable to find anywhere that is selling, firstly French compliant ones or for that price (cheapest being £6.99) as I wish to be able to comply before I enter France?

 

Bas

[Derek Uzzell]

Basil - 2012-01-07 2:52 PM

 

Thank you Derek, of course we will comply with the French laws along with all the others as we do with the ones you have mentioned which I can see the point of, I just cannot see, with the exception of Brians point what possible use they are.

As you say they are only cheap presumably you can you point me in the direction of where you have seen them for that price as I have been unable to find anywhere that is selling, firstly French compliant ones or for that price (cheapest being £6.99) as I wish to be able to comply before I enter France?

 

Bas

 

I can't tell you where in the UK you can buy 'France-compliant' breathalysers. As It's not the law yet in France, I would suggest that you wait until it is, at which point it will undoubtedly be easy to obtain them at ferry ports or on the ferries, and I would anticipate that they'll also be sold via UK on-line traders and retail outlets like Halfords.

 

Here's a link that provides prices of a range of French-standard breathalysers and it will be seen how cheap some are:

 

http://www.leguide.com/ethylotests.htm

 

This product seems to widely advertised in France

 

http://www.para-prixlight.com/contralco-soufflez-vous-saurez-ethylotests-usage-unique-p-1589.html?language=fr

 

but (as far as I'm aware) the French authorities have not yet defined which makes/models of breathalyser will be acceptable, nor what norms they will need to comply with.

[Rayjsj]

I read in a paper (can't remember which) that the compulsary 'Breath test kits' are only for French registered Vehicles, is that correct ? and that all this started on January 1st ?? seems a bit 'pre-emptive' and a Very strange way to target 'Drunken drivers' , I would have thought banning ALL drink driving, and throwing the book (at least a 12 Month ban) at anyone caught would be more 'productive' even in France.Ray *-)

[Derek Uzzell]

Rayjsj - 2012-01-07 10:48 PM

 

I read in a paper (can't remember which) that the compulsary 'Breath test kits' are only for French registered Vehicles, is that correct ? and that all this started on January 1st ?? seems a bit 'pre-emptive' and a Very strange way to target 'Drunken drivers' , I would have thought banning ALL drink driving, and throwing the book (at least a 12 Month ban) at anyone caught would be more 'productive' even in France.Ray *-)

 

See

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25790&posts=21

 

There is nothing to indicate (and no reason to assume) that the introduction of the French breathalyzer-related regulations planned for Spring 2012 will apply only to French-registered vehicles.

 

EU countries' 'safety-related' motoring regulations are not normally selective, and the French regulations introduced reasonably recently regarding mandatory carriage of a high-visibility vest and warning triangle apply to ALL vehicles being driven in France. There are exceptions (I believe the Spanish mandatory carriage of 2 warning triangles regulation only applies to Spanish nationals, with only 1 triangle being mandatory for 'foreign' drivers to carry) but such instances are very rare.

 

Nicolas Sarkozy rationalises the implementation of the forthcoming breathalyser regulations on the basis that the presence of a breathalyzer in vehicles will allow individuals to assess whether they are legally fit to drive after drinking.

 

While it would be possible to introduce a motoring zero-achohol limit in France (or, for that matter, in any other country that hasn't got one already), it would be tantamount to political suicide. Mandatory carriage of a cheap breathalyser in every vehicle being driven in France is politically uncontroversial. People who would prefer a zero-achohol limit will see it as a step in the right direction and people who don't will find it difficult to argue against Sarkozy's logic. What are they going to say? "I drink and drive, but I don't want to able to know whether I'm over the limit."

 

Whether mandatory carriage of a breathalyzer in vehicles will do much to reduce French road accidents is anybody's guess, but it's hard to argue against a regulation that will cost drivers very little financially and just MIGHT prevent a few accidents.

 

[derek pringle]

Hi Derek,

I thoroughly agree with your comments and will just obey any law or not go- my choice.

What I may question however is if the kits are cheap as you say I would be concerned of their accuracy.

If you look at kits for sale the ones that profess to be really accurate are expensive. Mind you they are re-usable,that could be the cost difference.

cheers

derek

[Derek Uzzell]

derek pringle - 2012-01-08 9:30 AM

 

...What I may question however is if the kits are cheap as you say I would be concerned of their accuracy...

 

Probably accurate enough for drivers to tell if they will be risking prosecution.

 

'Norms' information is provided on

 

http://www.lne.fr/fr/certification/fiches_nf/nf-ethylotests.pdf

[trooper]

I bought a proper breatherliser, cost around £45 after discount so I can check after having a glass or two of wine if I am below the limit, I would not drive if I was anywhere near the limit, just a bit of peace of mind.

I have 2small glasses of wine in the evening with a meal, half an hour later as it requested I was .004,

Limit in Britain ,.008, in France.005, I think it's good as a rough guide.

[thebishbus]

Speaking for us normal types, that do enjoy the pleasure of the odd drink now and then, I think a Breathalyser is a good tool to have. The best ones are the ones that you can keep using, to show the amount of alcohol in your system. Not only do they show whether you are over the limit or not, but more importantly, if you use them two or three times, you can tell if your alcohol level is increasing or decreasing, I think an important thing to know before you decide to drive or not.

Brian B.

[Derek Uzzell]

thebishbus - 2012-01-08 4:33 PM

 

Speaking for us normal types, that do enjoy the pleasure of the odd drink now and then, I think a Breathalyser is a good tool to have. The best ones are the ones that you can keep using, to show the amount of alcohol in your system. Not only do they show whether you are over the limit or not, but more importantly, if you use them two or three times, you can tell if your alcohol level is increasing or decreasing, I think an important thing to know before you decide to drive or not.

Brian B.

 

I wouldn't disagree with you about the more usefulness of multiple-usage breathalysers but, until the French authorities provide more information about what types/makes/models of equipment will be legally acceptable, I'd suggest that UK drivers don't buy any breathalyser yet on the assumption that it will conform to French regulations.

 

It's probable that any breathalyser that conforms to Norme NFX 20-702 (Juin 2007) will be acceptable - single usage, Yes-or-No result, maintenance-free and cheap as chips.

 

It may be that electronic breathalysers to Norme NFX 20-704 (Avril 2007) will also be acceptable, but that remains to be seen. As has been said before, it would almost certainly be the case that any legally acceptable electronic breathalyser would need to provide a specific warning of 'failure' when the French alcohol/exhalation limit of 0.25 mg/l had been exceeded.

[Brian Kirby]

Basil - 2012-01-07 2:02 PM.........................In my opinion there should be a zero alcahol allowance i.e. if you drink you don't drive or if you are driving you don't drink, that is what I do myself so I have no 'beef' with laws against drink driving, I just failed to see any reason or purpose for having a personal breatherliser kit until your response.

 

I do have to say though presumably someone who has had their drink 'laced' wouldn't know they need to test themselves, so again how does the kit help the situation or are you guessing that someone should breath test themselves before every car journey? Bas

Hi Bas

 

The argument against zero tolerance has always surrounded how one can know one has zero alcohol in one's system. The only person who could reasonably rely on that would be a tee-totaller (though I believe some mouth-washes contain alcohol), or someone driving at least 48 hours after they had consumed anything containing alcohol. The problem being the varying rates at which different people metabolise alcohol, and the varying rate at which even the same person metabolises alcohol under differing circumstances.

 

Well, the "Mickey Finn" has a long and ignoble tradition, and I have no idea whether the defence would hold any water. However, it would be reasonable to assume that the victim would already have consumed some alcohol, but would, due the the Mickey, be unaware how much. That might lead them to drive thinking themselves comfortably within the limit, when in fact they were over. Having the tester in their vehicle would at least give them the chance to test themselves if they thought they felt unexpectedly affected. However, all a bit theoretical, really. New generations of cars seem likely to have the device built in, and won't start until the driver provides a compliant sample. Drink driving remains a stubbornly high cause of accidents in France, so I think anything that might reduce it is to be welcomed overall.