nowtelse2do Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-01-24 7:06 PM Is that the case? My understanding was that the building of French toll-autoroutes (like French toll-bridges) was financed by private companies who then collected toll-revenues for a fixed period (say 20 years) after which the autoroute/bridge passed into state ownership when tolls would be remove. If that is the case Derek then my assumption is wrong. The autoroutes that have been subsidised must be the non toll ones. I know that if they are subsidies by the EU then the EU flag has to be shown on the construction boards when being built. Still theft tho' so like Brian I avoid them as much has possible and prefer to spend my brass in Austria and Germany. And apologies for going off thread. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymerVan Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have looked at this post with reference to devices which warn of the existence of speed cameras. The French legislation APPEARS to say that it is unlawful to have in the vehicle equipment which can PASSIVELY warn (i.e. by using GPS to identify a location). Such equipment need not be in use. My Garmin allows me to turn warnings off but it looks as though the ability of the device to detect will cause the offence (whether in use and by extension whether the warning check box is off or not). If I am right then it would appear :- 1.That the advice given by Kent Police and the AA is wrong and 2 It may be neccessary to REMOVE the warnings from the Satnav. As I understand it TomTom and possibly Garmin have already brought in modifications for "safety zones" and I think there is a download available. I have not yet used my Garmin in Europe (bought last year with European Mapping included and recently updated) It does show camera zones in the UK. I don't particularly want to buy the French update so MY QUESTION IS :- By default and without buying any additional downloads does a Garmin display Speed Camera info in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 HymerVan - 2012-01-25 12:49 PM I have looked at this post with reference to devices which warn of the existence of speed cameras. The French legislation APPEARS to say that it is unlawful to have in the vehicle equipment which can PASSIVELY warn (i.e. by using GPS to identify a location). Such equipment need not be in use. My Garmin allows me to turn warnings off but it looks as though the ability of the device to detect will cause the offence (whether in use and by extension whether the warning check box is off or not). If I am right then it would appear :- 1.That the advice given by Kent Police and the AA is wrong and 2 It may be neccessary to REMOVE the warnings from the Satnav. As I understand it TomTom and possibly Garmin have already brought in modifications for "safety zones" and I think there is a download available. I have not yet used my Garmin in Europe (bought last year with European Mapping included and recently updated) It does show camera zones in the UK. I don't particularly want to buy the French update so MY QUESTION IS :- By default and without buying any additional downloads does a Garmin display Speed Camera info in Europe. This is a reasonable general question that, unfortunately, has one major flaw in terms of answer. These is, in reality, no such thing as "a Garmin". First Garmin produce, and have produced, many different models. Second, AFAIK, there is no general indication as to when a particular Garmin unit was made. Third, Garmin seem continually to modify the specification of their units, so that what is included within two otherwise identical units cannot be guaranteed the same. Fourth, you know when you bought your unit, but not how long the retailer had it before sale. So, if you want to know exactly what is included within the specification, and data, on your unit, the only safe way will be to e-mail Garmin technical the query from their website, ideally quoting date of purchase, and model and serial numbers from your unit. My experience is that they do respond, though seldom as quickly as their initial acknowledgement would have you believe! :-) If your query is more urgent, try ringing, with the above information to hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 HymerVan - 2012-01-25 12:49 PM I have looked at this post with reference to devices which warn of the existence of speed cameras. The French legislation APPEARS to say that it is unlawful to have in the vehicle equipment which can PASSIVELY warn (i.e. by using GPS to identify a location). Such equipment need not be in use. My Garmin allows me to turn warnings off but it looks as though the ability of the device to detect will cause the offence (whether in use and by extension whether the warning check box is off or not). If I am right then it would appear :- 1.That the advice given by Kent Police and the AA is wrong and 2 It may be neccessary to REMOVE the warnings from the Satnav. As I understand it TomTom and possibly Garmin have already brought in modifications for "safety zones" and I think there is a download available. I have not yet used my Garmin in Europe (bought last year with European Mapping included and recently updated) It does show camera zones in the UK. I don't particularly want to buy the French update so MY QUESTION IS :- By default and without buying any additional downloads does a Garmin display Speed Camera info in Europe. I'm guessing that the answer to your last-line question is that your Garmin sat-nav WILL display specific speed-camera warnings for France, as well as for other European countries (including the UK) where it's legal for a GPS-type device to do so. It's likely that VERY recent Garmin updates will have converted the previous specific France speed-camera warnings to France 'danger' warnings, but any updates carried out a while ago won't have done this. I presume there's a software-release reference number relating to the the 'danger' warnings conversion update and, if you knew what that was, you might be able to say whether or not your sat-nav's data for France has been 'legalised'. Can't help with that though, I'm afraid. I discussed Garmin's speed-camera stance in some depth on Page 1 of this thread and also on: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=26226&posts=7 Garmin stil say - unambiguously - that merely deselecting the safety-camera-warning option on their sat-navs makes the device fully-compliant with the revised French regulations. Like you, I think that's not the case, but I'd like to assume (as much as anything because it suits me to do so!) that Garmin has taken advice from the relevant French authorities and been told that 'deselection' is sufficient for legality. Allowing 'deselection' to make a sat-nav compliant to the revised regulations seems to be counter to the letter and spirit of those rules. It's like introducing a law prohibiting the carrying of a loaded gun, and then adding a rider that allows a loaded gun to be carried provided that the safety-catch is on. I don't intend to contact Garmin about this yet, as I suspect French motorists will do it 'on my behalf' between now and March when I next plan to visit France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesFrance Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have a cheap Garmin nuvi 1240 bought last year. When I connected it to the Garmin site it offered a free French danger zone update which I installed. It shows the installation date on the files under Cyclops France when you view the file list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymerVan Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 My Garmin Lifetime map update sattes that my mapping is up to date but I don't know how that squares with the Camera Alerts if they exist on the mapping I have. Like Derek for the moment I will await developments especially as I wont be able to go to France until I have a Van !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 plumbersvan - 2012-01-13 3:43 PM :-S In France its forbiden to drink drive AND ENFORCED ive seen many controls :-S :-D The Levels are similar to the UK maybe two small glasses of wine with a meal but certainly no more. the actual levels are given in this article. Where do you get your info from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have a Garmin Nuvii 650 FM and when I recently (1 week ago) rang garmin I was told that the 100 series were too old to use the download to remove camera points and replace them with safety zones.Only a 1000 series Satnav could be updated with the download. So where that leaves me other than to de-select camera information or buy a new 1000 series unit is at present any ones guess, unless the forum members know different ????? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Retread24800 - 2012-01-25 5:30 PMplumbersvan - 2012-01-13 3:43 PM :-S In France its forbiden to drink drive AND ENFORCED ive seen many controls :-S :-D The Levels are similar to the UK maybe two small glasses of wine with a meal but certainly no more. the actual levels are given in this article. Where do you get your info from?I was always under the impression that French alcohol levels were considerably lower than ours. In this article it quotes France as 0.05% and UK as 0.08%: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content. There are a great number of variables though so it is much safer, for everyone, to not drink at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 mike 202 - 2012-01-25 5:43 PM I have a Garmin Nuvii 650 FM and when I recently (1 week ago) rang garmin I was told that the 100 series were too old to use the download to remove camera points and replace them with safety zones.Only a 1000 series Satnav could be updated with the download. So where that leaves me other than to de-select camera information or buy a new 1000 series unit is at present any ones guess, unless the forum members know different ????? Mike Garmin's French website confirms what you were told - evidently only sat-navs from the 1000-series onwards can accept a download to convert 'camera' alerts to 'danger' alerts. The website advises owners of sat-navs that aren't technically capable of accepting the alerts conversion-download to contact Garmin's customer service department, BUT ONLY if they also have a current subscription to Garmin's speed-camera alerts scheme. Dunno what would happen then - perhaps there'd be a refund? As you rightly say, your choices are a) deselection of your 650's alerts option when driving in France, or b) replacing your 650 with a later device that has the revised-format alerts on it already or can be updated to contain them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Patricia - 2012-01-25 7:02 PM Retread24800 - 2012-01-25 5:30 PM plumbersvan - 2012-01-13 3:43 PM :-S In France its forbiden to drink drive AND ENFORCED ive seen many controls :-S :-D The Levels are similar to the UK maybe two small glasses of wine with a meal but certainly no more. the actual levels are given in this article. Where do you get your info from? I was always under the impression that French alcohol levels were considerably lower than ours. In this article it quotes France as 0.05% and UK as 0.08%: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content. There are a great number of variables though so it is much safer, for everyone, to not drink at all. I did say similar the OP stated that drinking and driving was forbidden a 0.05 level shows a sensible level allowing us to have our glass of wine with our meal and then after a two hour break continue. Its so tough over here, if I was me I wouldn't want the hassle, but I will struggle on .Last week I was in Monbazillac at a Vinyard owned by a Camping-cariste, he is a member of French -Passion, Sipping his finest and a few days later in Roussillon down south doing exactly the same, 'spect I'll manage tho':-) To save the shock horror replies I spent the night on each vinyard and the only thing that suffered was my load allowance............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 JamesFrance - 2012-01-25 5:11 PM I have a cheap Garmin nuvi 1240 bought last year. When I connected it to the Garmin site it offered a free French danger zone update which I installed. It shows the installation date on the files under Cyclops France when you view the file list. I'm assuming from you saying that the update from the Garmin website was free, that you didn't have any sort of subscription, or other entitlement, to free updating when you connected to Garmin's website. I've discussed this before, but my understanding has been that the 'free' update offered to Garmin sat-nav owners who haven't an updatiing subscription/entitlement has only a 30-day lifespan. If you were not otherwise entitled to free updating, I'd be keen to learn if your new 'danger zone' alerts option remains operational beyond 30 days from the installation date. If it does not remain operational, I'd be interested to know what happens. If the France danger-zone alerts option just ceases to function and one is encouraged to buy a 'permanent' one-off download or an on-going updating subscription, will that have any effect on speed-camera alerts for other countries? Basically, would the sat-nav shut off 'danger' alerts for France but leave speed-camera alerts for, say, the UK still functioning? Presumably, as the Cyclops files are country-specific, it should be OK, but it might be useful to be forewarned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesFrance Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Derek I have not had any subscription and the original French Cyclops has been replaced by the new file. I assumed that a subscription would just allow you to update the info regularly and that it would continue to work with the old data. I won't be back in France until sometime in March, so it will be a while before I can see if it no longer works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Update on Speeding Camera info on Sat Nav, from www.pocketgpsworld,com "One French company that provides speed camera POIs has taken to the courts arguing that the ban is in breach of Article 10 of the Human Rights Act. There have also been claims by lawyers in France that police officers would need a search warrant to inspect a satnav or phone for GPS data." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I agree, this information is ALREADY in the public domain. HOW can they 'put the genie back into the bottle' They can't. 'Anything that isn't specifically 'Allowed' is Illegal.' Bloody Napoleon ! I dislike his 'Metrification' of everthing as well. *-) Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Just updated my European maps on my Garmin and the Garmin site states if you just turn off 'Speed Cameras' in your proximity alerts before you land in France this is all that is required legally. Re the post regarding free upload of 'Danger Zones' I can't find this-is it because I have Lifetime free updates or have I just missed it? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 If you are caught by the police, just point out that a country recently occupied by a foreign power, should not allow such an infringement of individual liberty. Probably wont get you off but should go down well :-D Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Welcome to the forum, Billy23, I have 'bumped' this thread specially for you to look at! Cheers, colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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