michele Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I don't need to start world war three its enough on Chatter . AS I have been away so long I would like to ask a question.. What was the verdict re the sevel based Motorhomes and the rain getting inside . I ask because we are looking for the next M/h and dont want to buy a big nono. WE are looking at a Bessie E789.also at risk of starting the reversing up hill saga again ...In a nut shell do we buy ? or do we head for a Merc or something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 michele - 2012-01-05 10:12 PM I don't need to start world war three its enough on Chatter . AS I have been away so long I would like to ask a question.. What was the verdict re the sevel based Motorhomes and the rain getting inside . I ask because we are looking for the next M/h and dont want to buy a big nono. WE are looking at a Bessie E789.also at risk of starting the reversing up hill saga again ...In a nut shell do we buy ? or do we head for a Merc or something else. If you are thinking of water getting into the engine compartment this was sorted in early 2008 so anything later than this should be ok. The reverse gear, depends on the engine, only real problem was on the 2.3 but any out their that have not been fixed you can still get it done by Fiat but probably best to check before purchase, anything after 2009 will have the revised gearbox. Mercedes, some swear by them but the only plus to them is the badge, they are overpriced and in my opinion not as good as either Ford or Fiat. read Euroserve opinion on them and he is probably in the best position to give an overall picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Agreed. Talk to Uncle Nick, he knows more about Ducatos than is good for anyone, including him! I think you may find your best choice overall (I'm assuming the van will be over 3.5 tonnes) would be the 3.0 litre auto. However, plainly not the cheapest. Can't win, can yer! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Thank you guy s, Sorry I didn't see the replys .Both taken on board well, I should say relayed to hubby hes the one with the brains. Anyway thanks so much for answering Rupert & Brian. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Michelle, The 3Litre Auto's never suffered from the 'Reversing Judder' even from the start (2006/7) and as far as i'm aware are still going strong without common faults , so worth looking at. It isn't a 'Full' (torque converter) Auto but a 'Robotised' manual, so still gives reasonable MPG. Regards and good Hunting ! Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-01-05 10:23 PM michele - 2012-01-05 10:12 PM I don't need to start world war three its enough on Chatter . AS I have been away so long I would like to ask a question.. What was the verdict re the sevel based Motorhomes and the rain getting inside . I ask because we are looking for the next M/h and dont want to buy a big nono. WE are looking at a Bessie E789.also at risk of starting the reversing up hill saga again ...In a nut shell do we buy ? or do we head for a Merc or something else. Mercedes, some swear by them but the only plus to them is the badge, they are overpriced and in my opinion not as good as either Ford or Fiat. Ha ha ha, Very funny Rupert. (lol) (lol) What exacly do you base that on, especially in regard to the transit?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Taken from Fleet news..............blimey where's my Ducato ! ! Most reliable vans Mercedes-Benz Sprinter Ford Transit Connect Volkswagen Caddy Ford Transit Volkswagen Transporter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Well done One foot, nuff said I think. :D :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Best bet Michele is to make sure you check the VIN of any prospective purchase with Fiat to make sure that any ECU software updates, clutch, gearbox and/or engine mounting modifications and any other recall work has been done and if not get their agreement - or the dealers - to do it all FOC before you agree to buy it. Make sure that you give the van a really good test drive which should include slow reversing and manoeuvring on grass if you get the chance as well as reversing round a bend uphill. as well as all the usual things that you would check on a more normal car type test drive. These are, I believe, the most severe test of any suspect transmission and if it judders as well it might at times is it so bad that you can't either reduce it by a slightly different driving style or simply accept that it is a 'feature' of the vehicle and live with it for the sake of getting an otherwise ideal van? PS _ Told ya not to sell poor old Bessie the first didn't I !!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Yes you did . ;-) It was not being used though shame really. I will take on board your points. Thanks Rich . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tuckley Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Hello, All, At the start of this thread there is a mention of water getting into the engine compartment. My vehicle was built in Jan 2008 and yes I do get a persistent leak fro the joint in the centre of the black shield at the bottom of the windscreen. Was there a FIAT upgrade to eliminate this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Geoff Tuckley - 2012-01-15 8:29 PM Hello, All, At the start of this thread there is a mention of water getting into the engine compartment. My vehicle was built in Jan 2008 and yes I do get a persistent leak fro the joint in the centre of the black shield at the bottom of the windscreen. Was there a FIAT upgrade to eliminate this? Yes, a black plastic cover over the engine to stop water sitting on top of the engine in the injector holes and causing rust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carebear Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 We took our 2008 model to the local Fiat dealer regarding the water matter, we were just out of the 2 year warranty and stated we would not get the covers free of charge. I was then priced over £200 to buy the covers, like hell our van is garaged when not in use so when its out we keep a check on the matter ours is fine up to now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Have I misunderstood . If I buy a new one are you saying I will get water in the engine because of the design fault ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 michele - 2012-01-15 9:26 PM Have I misunderstood . If I buy a new one are you saying I will get water in the engine because of the design fault ? No certainly not. Fiat modified it in 2008, some early ones may have missed this but they modified the shuttle seal and put an engine cover on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 michele - 2012-01-15 9:26 PM Have I misunderstood . If I buy a new one are you saying I will get water in the engine because of the design fault ? You might want to read this if you are buying a Euro 5 engined vehicle, one step forward,two backwards. It seems this could be the new technology headache for some that's now emerging, only time will tell how much of an issue this will become, but it does not bode very well............... http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/diesel-particulate-filters.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-16 5:23 AM michele - 2012-01-15 9:26 PM Have I misunderstood . If I buy a new one are you saying I will get water in the engine because of the design fault ? You might want to read this if you are buying a Euro 5 engined vehicle, one step forward,two backwards. It seems this could be the new technology headache for some that's now emerging, only time will tell how much of an issue this will become, but it does not bode very well............... http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/diesel-particulate-filters.html Received wisdom is that DPFs were introduced by motor manufacturers as a 'quick and dirty' means of meeting increasingly tight mandatory diesel emissions standards. DPF problems most commonly relate to vehicles that are driven regularly for short distances, when the motor doesn't warm up fully and the DPF can't get hot enough to self-clean properly. For evidence of the extent of UK DPF-related problems, just GOOGLE on DPF. The following link is to a company that offers various ECU remapping options, including one that permits (where appropriate) a DPF to be removed without this impacting on the vehicle's diagnostic software: http://www.evolutionchips.co.uk/Vehicle_Remapping_Search.html The link's "Vehicle Search" data seem to suggest that a DPF is already fitted to Citroen/Fiat/Peugeot X/250 vehicles with Euro IV-compliant 2.3litre and 3.0litre motors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 All I can tell you is that our Fait based motorhome with a 2.3 engine will reverse slowly up our drive which is both steep and difficult with no problems at all. If you are looking at the 3l with auto the only negative comments I have heard are that they can be a bit problematical when driven up onto levelling blocks. The Merc will be more expensive and limit you choice of Motorhome. The other problem we found on a test drive in one was that it wallowed about like a stricken cruise liner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hello Michelle, I am not going to get into the 'who thinks what van is the best' because I know which one it is and I don't care what people who only have experience of 1 vehicle and a bunch of quotations from the van trade press to call on have to say about it. Statistics can be read in any number of ways and are pretty worthless when all the major fleets have got hold of cheap Merc vans and want to feel good about their decisions. When it comes down to the camper van market; for one reason or another the Fiat Ducato is the most commonly built, purchased and discussed. It's just a fact. Your choices are dictated by size, layout and funds (in whatever order these are important to you), but will almost inevitably lead you to a Fiat, and for the record... I don't think that is a bad thing. The normal rules regarding used vehicles will apply. Drive it. Reverse up a reasonable gradient and make sure that it does not judder excessively or need to be moving uncomfortably quickly in order to do so smoothly. If this test is passed and it meets your needs in every other way, have a look under the bonnet and make sure that it has a plastic cover fitted over the top of the engine. If it does not; ask for £200 off the price if you feel brave or walk away from it if you don't. The water ingress issue will have left it's mark already and you don't want any trouble like that. Make sure that everything electrical in the cab works properly, and as far as the base vehicle is concerned; I am done. Anything else that happens is not expensive to fix and is not going to be enough to get you worried. The 2.3 engine is more than adequate and the 3.0 is just lovely. The 3.0 Auto is best and is probably a better bet than the manual. I drive one a lot and (while I can choose any van that I want) this is where I enjoy driving most. Now. The latest ones are Euro5 engines and while they are based on proven designs and are probably ok, they all now have Diesel Particulate Filters which are renowned for being a pain in the behind. It's too early to say if they will be in the case of the Fiat but I would recommend a late Euro4 over a Euro5 any day. The prized 3.0 engine has now gone up from 157hp to 180 ish and it is over-kill. Especially as it now costs another £800 or so from the factory. I would not bother. Rumour has it that there is now an auto version of the 2.3 engine with 150hp and if this is true I would say it is most likely the pick of the bunch (if you must buy new). Before you sign an agreement to buy anything that has not been seen by you, or driven by you I recommend you include in the agreement that the vehicle must drive smoothly with no unpleasant transmission noise or judder present. If it does not meet your expectations you should stipulate that all funds that have changed hands must be returned. Warranties are all well and good but why should you be inconvenienced if the vehicle is faulty even before the convertor starts work on it? It is time for the supplying Fiat agent, the converter and the camper dealer to take responsibility to make sure that your vehicle is as perfect as it can be, and that you have a right to expect. Finally; Anyone that is considering a truly enormous camper (7m or more?) is truly barking up the wrong tree if they think that a front wheel drive base vehicle is anything but a terrible mistake. The laws of physics dictate that such a beast can only be rear wheel drive and cannot exist at 3500kg. Unfortunately this means that a Fiat cannot do the job, so you will probably end up looking at a second hand Mercedes. For goodness sake make sure that it has air suspension at the rear and a firm ride at the front or you will get sea sick. Iveco Daily chassis are out there but trust me, I have learned through bitter experience that anything they make at under 5000kg is garbage and the 6500kg; while tough has dreadful electrical issues and poor build quality in the cab. Don't do it. Good luck! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest machra Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Michele - in answer to part of your original question regarding water ingress I have a 2011 Ducato with all the updates on it including numerous covers within the engine compartment. I can say that water still finds its way under the seal at the bottom of the windscreen and into the engine compartment. Also the plastic drip tray panel under the windscreen is in two parts and leaks. I have sealed both the windscreen seal and the join in the tray and it is 100% better. Mine is a 2.3 120BHP, Euro 4 but with the updated Euro 5 dash and I have to say that I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Machra, That is fascinating! I was assured that there were no 2012 interior Euro4 vehicles built but yours would seem to disprove that! It used to happen all the time but when I was waiting for vehicles last year I was told that there had been a clean break. Lying gits. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Just read all of the above 8-)............ Progress eh? (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 pelmetman - 2012-01-17 6:59 PM Just read all of the above 8-)............ Progress eh? (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) I'm rapidly coming round to your opinion, DMF, DPF, reversing judder, ECU's, injectors at £300 a go, blown turbos, injectors rusting in to cylinder heads, mmmmmm :-S :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawki Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 michele - 2012-01-05 10:12 PM I don't need to start world war three its enough on Chatter . AS I have been away so long I would like to ask a question.. What was the verdict re the sevel based Motorhomes and the rain getting inside . I ask because we are looking for the next M/h and dont want to buy a big nono. WE are looking at a Bessie E789.also at risk of starting the reversing up hill saga again ...In a nut shell do we buy ? or do we head for a Merc or something else. Stalwart Posts: 950 Location: MOTORHOME IH Savannah Tio currently up for sale PROFILE PM Taken from Fleet news..............blimey where's my Ducato ! ! Most reliable vans Mercedes-Benz Sprinter Ford Transit Connect Volkswagen Caddy Ford Transit Volkswagen Transporter QUOTE Michele you wont go far wrong with a Merc these statistics will give you a good idea about what vans are reliable,even thou some will disagree regardless The Merc does have a softer ride which is not to everybody's taste but i much prefer a softer ride, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Well , thanks for the replies guys . Have to get hubby to read as per usual he makes the decisions and I know he will read all the above with interest . Progress, god I am wondering what I have got back into but we so miss it . *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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