the Union Jack

[Guest Tracker]

Lord Braykewynde - 2012-01-11 5:42 PM

I can't see how you think all of Lincolnshire is bland. Go to Boston, or maybe Peterborough, close your eyes and you could be in either Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland or Portugal

 

That really is a very unkind and quite uncalled for remark - Latvia etc are very nice countries to those who are unable to escape to Wisbech!

[big olga]

Hi, did you know that English people have German D.N.A. The Saxons and Angles invaded england in 410----- they took over when the romans went back to sunny Italy.

 

If your surname [german] ends in TON you have saxon ancestory; my name ends in TON English father Northern Irish Mother; See how Many towns in England end in TON.

 

More food for thought!

Dave.

[flicka]

Tracker

The Union Flag should remain the same - then when Scotland realise how wrong they were and want to come back we don't need to alter it again!

 

Would we want them back ????? (He, He)

IMO - it's up to the Scots who are LIVING in Scotland, but it's a ONE WAY Ticket.

 

Dave225

Secondly just because we decide, and only if we decide, to be independent then there is no reason why we cannot remain as part of a Federation with England and share common resources.

 

If Scotland has the right to vote for independence, surely England has a reciprocal right to vote IF or NOT they can remain as part of a “federation” ?????

 

Dave 225

As Labour had controlled Scotland for nearly 50 years they were the ones who were most humiliated by being tossed out, and with their new loopy leader up here, are unlikely to get back anytime soon.

 

At the time of the last election – wasn’t that leader SCOTTISH >:-(

[Dave225]

flicka - 2012-01-11 9:20 PM

 

Tracker

The Union Flag should remain the same - then when Scotland realise how wrong they were and want to come back we don't need to alter it again!

 

Would we want them back ????? (He, He)

IMO - it's up to the Scots who are LIVING in Scotland, but it's a ONE WAY Ticket.

 

Dave225

Secondly just because we decide, and only if we decide, to be independent then there is no reason why we cannot remain as part of a Federation with England and share common resources.

 

If Scotland has the right to vote for independence, surely England has a reciprocal right to vote IF or NOT they can remain as part of a “federation” ?????

 

Dave 225

As Labour had controlled Scotland for nearly 50 years they were the ones who were most humiliated by being tossed out, and with their new loopy leader up here, are unlikely to get back anytime soon.

 

At the time of the last election – wasn’t that leader SCOTTISH >:-(

 

I was referring to the Scottish Parties. Both the Conservatives and Labour now have women leaders, both Scots but that is no claim to fame. One is a confirmed lesbian and the other is......well, nothing I can say but both have probably made sure that their respective Parties have little impact . As also mentioned the Libby Demmies are in total hiding and are never seen anymore. Salmond has a clear field to play and he knows it. He is a smug little b.....d but he does know politics. He will keep rattling Cameron's cage until he gets what he wants.

[big olga]

Hi, If Scotland forms a republic will they adopt the Euro; as they would not want to keep Sterling as the money system for their new independent state?

 

Even more food for thought!

dave.

[pepe63xnotuse]

Yeah,good point Dave..

 

Having heard and watched umpteen interviews/features on this,although Salmond has made plenty of noises concerning how much of "his" North Sea oil he'll let us have(..and how little of the UK debt he'll take!?),I haven't heard one word about things like what currency they'd adopt (..as surely they can't keep a currency controlled by the Bank of England?)..or border controls of..or Defence(..who pays for what..and when?) etc etc

 

..Or maybe,as I suspect,he doesn't really want to be THAT independent?? ..But just independent enough to satisfy his smug,self-serving,egotistical nature... *-)

[Guest Peter James]

Dave225 - 2012-01-10 8:00 PM

 

We voted SNP because the others were such a diabolical shower and had screwed us for so long.

Are you referring to Blair, Brown, Darling, and Goodwin who were born and raised in SCOTLAND

Or the two banks which have broke us, the Bank of SCOTLAND, and the ROYAL Bank of SCOTLAND.

Just close the border in the Summer when I am out of there and your Royal Hangers On are in Balmoral ;-)

[Brian Kirby]

Dave225 - 2012-01-10 8:00 PM

 

Let us put a little realism into the discussion.............................

 

Secondly just because we decide, and only if we decide, to be independent then there is no reason why we cannot remain as part of a Federation with England and share common resources. .........................

I personally find this aspect of the debate very worrying. Scotland is a part of the United Kingdom, it is not the United Kingdom.

 

The present inhabitants of Scotland are being steered towards exit from the United Kingdom on the pretext that they are Scots. Some are, others are not. This is being largely presented as a move based on ethnicity, which it manifestly, after 300 years within a country (that United Kingdom bit again) of very mixed ethnicity, it is not. Ask yourselves this: what does Scotland lose by being a part of the United Kingdom, and what would it gain by leaving?

 

IMO, this is is a move based on one political grouping's desire for power, and they are playing the "ethnicity card" for all it is worth, to get it. If any country, even Scotland, were to delve back through 300 years of treaties and agreements they would find some unholy messes. Those are our collective history, and trying to cherry pick tit-bits of history to support this or that claim to unity or independence seems to me the resort of rogues.

 

If Scotland wishes to secede from the United Kingdom it will not be on conditions laid down by the Scottish parliament, it will be on conditions agreed, or in the absence of agreement, laid down by, the parliament of the United Kingdom. I shall expect the population of the entire UK to be heard in this debate, it is not a matter for the Scots alone to decide, because it has implications for us all. The problem with a negotiated independence is that terms cannot be laid down that would bind either party in perpetuity. No parliament can be bound as to its future actions, any treaty can be set aside at any point. Consequences follow, but those are implicit in the decision the parliaments may take. So, the concepts of limited, or partial independence are, for me, a complete non-starter. Independence, to me, implies sovereignty, and for Scotland to have sovereignty implies the secession must be total and irrevocable.

 

Salmond, IMO, is a glory-hunter. He is very clever, and he has far too many of the Scots by the nose because he is clever. As I see him he wants to be, in effect, King of Scotland, the ruler of his own country. He is avuncular, and he smiles a lot, but he calculates more. Just ask yourselves what is in it for him. Is this move to independence from the UK simply a welling-up in his breast of romantic pride, a love of the tartan and the pipes, is he just some latter day Walter Scott? If he is, I wouldn't hitch my waggon to his dewy-eyed horse, if he is not, then his true motives need exposing. He is very much a modern politician, saying what is popular, and going easy on what is not, and shamelessly playing a nationalist card to gain, and maintain, power.

 

Forget the promises: they are the promises of self-interested politicians. Given the facts as they appear to me, he will draw Scotland away from the UK to whatever extent he can persuade the Scots to follow. Then, if that break is less than complete, he will return again and again, issue by issue, until the break is complete. If the issues don't present, he will engineer them. So, I ask again, who wins? Oil revenues are forecast to last until 2050. Forecasts are notoriously unreliable but even so, 40 years will see Salmond out, but what of Scotland as "its" reserves begin to wane. Is this independence sustainable into an infinite future, or is it merely a 5 minute wonder for the glory of Salmond? I'm afraid I am greatly inclined to suspect the latter.

[malc d]

It does seem to me that Alex Salmond is a bit of a one man band, although , because he 'talks well ' he's no doubt attracted a bit of a following.

But, can any ( Englishmen ) name anyone else in the Scottish government ?

Or, do you know what they think ?

 

Sadly, the media is so besotted with Alex that we rarely get to hear what any other Scot thinks.

 

In the few interviews I've seen with real people in Scotland ( i.e. not politicians ) I don't hear much enthusiasm for independence.

 

 

 

;-)

[Dave225]

There is a lot of scaremongering going on at the moment based on almost no facts.

 

Firstly at the last count over 50% of people who are eligible to vote in Scotland stated they wished to remain part of the UK. Of course just because one is not born in a location does not mean that they may not wish to participate in actions relevant to where they live. The 400000 English up here did not vote for either Labour, Conservative or even Libbies did they, if so where are the MP’s? So the fact that the SNP achieved an overall majority at the last Poll does indicate that a very large proportion of the populace regardless of birth supported them, but as I have stated before my opinion is that this was as much to do with total contempt for the 3 other Parties as any real support for the SNP. They had also been in power as a minority government for 5 years and many people came to the view that they had 'not done too badly' and after a disastrous decade of Labour in Westminster, no one was going to support them anymore. So as is usual in many elections they won by being the lesser of all evils. Also the SNP can technically claim to have more experience than the Westminster Government having been in power far longer. I am not saying they are experts by any means but they have been round the block a bit more than Cameron and Osborne. Some of them actually have had day jobs. Many of them are quite well known up here as we see them a lot on the telly. Swinney, finace, Macskill, justice, Sturgeon, 'fixer in chief'. You can even walk up to the door of the First Minister's house in Charlotte Square and knock. No security, although I suspect there is a big 'heavy' behind the door.

 

That does not mean to say everybody who voted for them was an out and out independence radical. If you read the SNP manifesto you will find that it is not until page 28 that independence is raised and it states that a Bill will be put forward in the next Parliament. No statement anywhere that 'if we win we go independent'. It was basically a re-write of many previous manifestos. In fact that part of the manifesto has been very quiet until Westminster raised the temperature by demanding that they dictate the whole thing. The SNP are fully aware of the feeling in Scotland and were more than likely to use any Referendum as a means to negotiate some more powers from Westminster, rather than expect a victory, which would be no bad thing for us. We feel a bit like a working wife who hands over her paypacket to her husband and gets a housekeeping allowance back. As husbands know that does not lead to a happy marriage. That is why the SNP have put forward a 3rd question, which of course Westminster abhors as it means they lose. This would in fact resolve many issues without major heartache. Unfortunately, some at Westminster have now panicked and started making extremely childish comments about how 'if we do not play ball their way, they will take away the ball'. None of this does any good and merely forces the Scots into a corner. All Westminster had to do was wait until Salmond had his Referendum, if he ever did, see what sort of result he got and then decided what actions were necessary. The media have not helped either by making inflammatory comments and even today a political pundit, from London, insulted the Geordies by stating that they were 'almost Scots'. Maybe they will wish to join us like they tried to do last time round.

 

By the way, there was technically only 1 ‘Scottish’ bank bailed out. The Bank of Scotland merged with the Halifax Building Society but the Halifax remained the larger shareholder as they wanted the deal and appointed both Chairman and CEO. Therefore they were the bosses. Maybe I am wrong but I still think Halifax is part of England. The reason they chose Edinburgh as HQ was because the guys from Halifax really fancied sitting in the posh offices on the Mound looking down at everyone. Slightly more attractive than Halifax I suspect, plus they got to print their own banknotes. Yes, the investment part made mistakes, but under whose control one has to ask. Before Halifax became involved BoS was a very profitable organisation. So culpability lies on both sides of the border. As far as RBS is concerned I did not notice Westminster saying Boo when they were happily taking all the Tax they were getting. Up till 2008 this was averaging £2.6 billion per annum. They are actually paying off the taxpayer currently, so Osborne is getting some money back. By the way Virgin have just bought Northern Rock and Branson has opened the new HQ. Where? Edinburgh. Tesco have just opened their new banking HQ. Where? Edinburgh. They maybe know something the rest of us do not. The financial district of Edinburgh is not the size of the City of London, but it is no small deal either. Many thousands are working there and it is by no means a busted flush.

 

Evidently Osborne has now stated we are not to have the Pound, by the way, it is a Scottish Pound with different notes, or maybe they do not see too many in the Home Counties. So we are to be forced into the euro as punishment. I fully accept that I would not like to be part of that but if pushed to shove there could be worse. Yes, we swop masters in Whitehall for the ECB, but they are a bigger bank and the EU tends to smile on smaller members, just as long as you agree with them. Keeping tabs on us is probably not such a bad idea either as it would stop the SNP blowing the loot too much. Also, I have a suspicion that the EU would help us a lot just to cock a snoot at Cameron next door. The EU has problems but they will be solved eventually and then what happens. Who can say that Whitehall are experts at economics, just ask Brown and Blair. Who managed to run up the deficit?? Also it could be great fun to know that any money we may get from the EU would be part of England’s contribution Hee! Hee!.

 

Oh and the latest outpouring from down south is the best yet. Evidently, if we did decide to leave then we are not going to be allowed to keep the Pandas. Where do they think they will go? London? No chance. The Chinese would take them home and you lot would have to pay the indemnity clause. Talk about childish. By the way Sunshine is feeling poorly. He has a bit of what we used to call excessive wind and needs burping. Also known as ‘Panflu’. Ask any male with a cold. Any volunteers? He was told not to eat the deep fried Mars bar as well as the bamboo but he couldn't resist seeing he was in Scotland.

 

Before any decision was made in any direction an awful lot of questions need to be answered, some interesting and some as my American friends would say, are just ‘squirly’. One would be what about State Pensions. Would these be still paid by Westminster or would the money be transferred to Edinburgh to be paid. Or would we just get the assets to pay them ourselves. After all pensioners have paid for them through taxes and pensioners in Spain etc get them.

 

So, I still suggest that all rhetoric is ceased until if and when any actual Document is produced along with the relevant fact sheets. It is causing a lot of anxiety and even upset, especially amongst older people. There is a ridiculous idea that we may end up like the partition of India and Pakistan with 2 long columns of people trudging across the border. As for any idea that Westminster would decide the whole issue is like your wife divorcing you, even if you do not want the marriage to end. Just try stopping her. As with divorce the only winners in that one are the lawyers.

 

[Travelling Tyke]

Alex is a canny man, so much so that I am in full agreement with him...........If the Scotts vote to go then they should.......

 

 

Errr........Who said "You can fool some of the people, etc"

[Syd]

 

I'm mostly with our government on this

 

A simple yes/no vote and sooner rather than later.

 

I visited Scotland once in 1956 so does that visit entitle me to dual citizenship ? (lol)

[big olga]

Hi , I see the Sun Newspaper has picked up on my idea about the Union Jack! see page 14 of the red top.

 

I think it would be a very bad thing if Scotland left the Union ;it is just an idealistic dream which could turn in to a nightmare for Scotland.

Being from Northern Ireland the Scotts folk are our cousins and our friends [we know their language-- dae yee ken etc.] As part of Northern Ireland used to be part of Scotland "Dalriada"--- from Larne to Ballycastle ruled by the macdonnells. We have a big connection with the Scotts.

Dave.