2010 2.2 Swift Escape or stick with my 2003 2.8 Jtd PVC

[Guest JudgeMental]

"On the PVC front - look at the Globecar Globescout (standard and style versions) which are similar to Eddie's Adria but in my view, better"

 

And why I suggested he look at both....I went to Dusseldorf with the intention of buying a Globecar but a few things changed my mind. Styling is very Germanic, but more importantly to us, it has a small fridge and rear bed not as good and does not fold up easily, so not as adaptable for carrying stuff as you have to more or less disassemble the rear bed frame... little things, but the devil is in the detail...

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Perhaps I should have said the 2010 Swift I have short listed has 4000 miles on the clock and I have agreed in principle to pay a fiver short of 30k, so that's my budget, with an almost retail offer trade in for my IH. But have now also found an Adria that could well fit the bill as well.

 

I am going to test drive both hopefully this week before committing, and value everyone's input, ;-)

[aande83]

Hi all, I had an Elddis 120 with the 2.2 hdi engine AND we had to make up the bed before going to sleep (of course we always made up the bed before we went off for a night out!). Last year we travelled extensively throughout France, Italy and Greece (very mountainous) before making our way back up over the Bremmer Pass through Germany, Belgium and home to north Scotland. At no time did we find ourselves lagging behind any other vehicles on the hilly bits! Indeed on our return we went down to the NEC show and, after spending 2 days looking at all the vans (including the panel vans) have ordered a new Elddis 120 with the Euro 5 engine for delivery later this year. At least this choice of van leaves me with some money to actually enjoy future trips!

[dshague]

found the 2.2 under powered on long motorway hills ,drop down to forth .van was a 6.5 lunar moonstar .big van for that size engine ok in town ,had it for a year from new ,not for us .

went back to a pvc had four over the years and love it lots of space ,park any were ,if white van man can get down those lanes  then we can .pvc are not for every one .test drive then both .

[colin]

It seems your requirements of a van are the same as ours. Most of the time as a couple and then wanting to take a small(ish) girl along. Well IMO we've got the ideal solution (for us) the Globescout 636, a panel van that is only about a foot longer than yours but with 4 traveling seats, beds for 3 (have on couple of occasions had 4 sleeping) the important 'inner sanctum' with sliding door that a tired adult can take refuge in and a huge storage space for all the essencial items a little girl seems to need.

The only problem I can see is you'll proboly not get a RHD one secondhand.

[robertandjean]

Unlike all replies so far we, at present, run a Swift Escape, although a 624 (fixed rear bed) not the 664. The performance is very good, easily gets up to 130 kph on the French auto routes, and we are always well up to, if not over weight limit, so would not worry at all about performance. Also had no troubles at all with reversing, despite all the worries re "juddergate". Over our "long" time motorvanning we have had everything from tiny pop-up roof vans, through standard van conversions, to many coach builts. To be honest, we would not go back to van conversions as we find coach builts give much more space and both of us find them easy to drive (but as you know we do now spend most of our motorvanning time in France where parking, staying overnight etc is easy with a coach built).

We are changing again in March, this time to a Tribute Coachbuilt, mainly for "extra" bed space so grandchildren can come with us. This is on Ford Transit with Euro V engine, so will let you know how it goes, and again it is longer this time, 6.95 m, but as stated earlier both of us are happy driving coachbuilts at this length. So in summary we would say Escape is not sluggish and do not worry about driving a coachbuilt, particularly if heading for France!

[Guest JudgeMental]

1footinthegrave - 2012-01-22 7:19 PM

 

Perhaps I should have said the 2010 Swift I have short listed has 4000 miles on the clock and I have agreed in principle to pay a fiver short of 30k, so that's my budget, with an almost retail offer trade in for my IH. But have now also found an Adria that could well fit the bill as well.

 

I am going to test drive both hopefully this week before committing, and value everyone's input, ;-)

 

3 on ebay around the same price....Try 3 cheeky offers :-D

[Derek Uzzell]

For a power/torque comparison

 

Fiat 2.8litre JTD - 127bhp/300Nm

 

Fiat 2.2litre Multijet - 100bhp/250Nm

 

 

[T8LEY]

I think it's worth considering engine design has moved on, even since 2003. We have an X250 2.2 Multijet 100 BHP with 5 speed box in a 3.3 tonne coachbuilt. We previously had a 2.2 HDi 104 BHP 5 speed in a 3.3 tonne PVC. What a difference between the 2002 HDi and the 2009 Multijet. Although there's only about 10 NM more torque available from the Multijet it performs much better than the old HDi with improved acceleration and climbing capability, along with better fuel economy.

[flicka]

Just for comparison

 

We have the 2.2L 100bhp Peugeot with 5 speed box, 6metre Low Profile on a 3500kg chassis

 

The Swift Escape 664 is a 2.2L 100bhp Fiat with 5 speed box 6.7metre Low Profile on a 3500kg chassis.

(although I notice Swift's have now upped the 2012 model to the 2.3L 130bhp engine with 6 speed gearbox)

 

I think the torque figues are similar, so difference is basically overall length.

 

IMO there is very little, if any differance in performance between a 6m PVC & a Low Profile Coachbuilt (I can't comment on a Overcab Coachbuilt) We are now getting between 28 to 30mpg (@8K) & expect some improvement as mileage increases.

I would not expect the overall length to impact on performance as front profile & weight are the major factors.

I don't really notice our additional width versus a PVC.

 

nb Check the external locker space & accessability, on the Escape, you may be dissappointed when compared to your IH Savanah's boot.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Well the end of another day almost, and the forums have proved once again the diversity of opinion that exists. I'm far more confident in my options now thanks to all those that have taken their time to contribute with some valuable information from users, so many thanks. Off for some serious poking around this week, looking in nooks and crannies, and ignoring the salesman, ( just re-read that and I'm sure there's a joke in there, but resist ) Cheers again everyone ;-)

[tazdog6007]

having had five c/builds and two pvc vans,the lack of build quality in coachbuilds,leaks ect, a pvc was for us a no brainer.your ih will get you a trade in or private sale price far higher than any coachbuild of similar age.could not afford an ih, so went for a warwick duo which given its spec was great value for money.two months in france and spain,went like a charm and 35 to the gallon.also more secure.dont get the fuss about performance,they are all boxes on wheels.on site we would all like a slide out.the globestar is a good choice,and will always command a good resale figure.for dumping bundles,see coachbuilt! :-D

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Now the doubts set it.....but ignoring the coachbuilt v PVC debate, talking new prices, the equivalent to our current IH is £47000 way of the radar for us, the Swift Escape is £37000, not sure how that works considering mostly the same generic kit in both. But a test drive and first hand look tomorrow may enlighten me, and why someone would "dump" a van with only 3700 miles on it so soon. ;-)

[pepe63xnotuse]

Not sure if of any help..

..but our previous van,an '07 Peugeot(Compass 120 Suntor,low profile,3t,3mtr wheel base)had the 2.2,100hp,with 5 speed box..and as we swapped from an '03 Duetto(2.4 125hp Tranny pvc),I was expecting performancce to be quite lack luster but to be honest,apart from the odd steep and drawn out gradients or at "motorway speed overtakes",where it would run out of puff a little,it did actual zip along suprisingly well....

 

Having said that, the Compass 120 wasn't/isn't that big and I'm not sure I'd want be using it in anything much bigger....at the very least I'd want a lengthy test drive.... :-S

[Mel B]

JudgeMental - 2012-01-22 7:09 PM

 

"On the PVC front - look at the Globecar Globescout (standard and style versions) which are similar to Eddie's Adria but in my view, better"

 

And why I suggested he look at both....I went to Dusseldorf with the intention of buying a Globecar but a few things changed my mind. Styling is very Germanic, but more importantly to us, it has a small fridge and rear bed not as good and does not fold up easily, so not as adaptable for carrying stuff as you have to more or less disassemble the rear bed frame... little things, but the devil is in the detail...

 

Not wishing to be pedantic, but I was referring to a particular model of the Globecar, you just mentioned the name of the manufacturer ... :D ;-)

 

I had a good look at the 'Style' version for quite some time, and it is a very nice van, however I agree the fridge is a bit on the small side. The bed on the other hand was a plus for us - we liked the fact that you can totally remove the cushions and frame so when wanting to use it for other things, such as moving furniture or taking stuff to the tip, it can be cleared of as much stuff as possible. We found the interior styling very pleasing and the shower in the 'hall' in front of the bed was good too - it meant the rear bed was a bit bigger and the dinette also had a bit more room than vans which have the shower within the washroom itself - this is only something you get on the Style version though, not on the standard one.

[colin]

colin - 2012-01-22 8:23 PM

 

It seems your requirements of a van are the same as ours. Most of the time as a couple and then wanting to take a small(ish) girl along. Well IMO we've got the ideal solution (for us) the Globescout 636, a panel van that is only about a foot longer than yours but with 4 traveling seats, beds for 3 (have on couple of occasions had 4 sleeping) the important 'inner sanctum' with sliding door that a tired adult can take refuge in and a huge storage space for all the essencial items a little girl seems to need.

The only problem I can see is you'll proboly not get a RHD one secondhand.

 

Just realised I've named our van as Globescout when I should have said Globecar Campscout :$

[Guest JudgeMental]

colin - 2012-01-23 7:21 PM

 

colin - 2012-01-22 8:23 PM

 

It seems your requirements of a van are the same as ours. Most of the time as a couple and then wanting to take a small(ish) girl along. Well IMO we've got the ideal solution (for us) the Globescout 636, a panel van that is only about a foot longer than yours but with 4 travelling seats, beds for 3 (have on couple of occasions had 4 sleeping) the important 'inner sanctum' with sliding door that a tired adult can take refuge in and a huge storage space for all the essential items a little girl seems to need.

The only problem I can see is you'll probably not get a RHD one secondhand.

 

Just realised I've named our van as Globescout when I should have said Globecar Campscout :$

 

 

Just to give you an idea......German dealer has a LHD Campscout 636SB, November 2009, 38.000km 3 litre automatic... I would think you would easily get it for £30.000

 

http://www.duemo-duelmen.de/fahrzeuge-im-angebot/duelmen.html

 

he has a RHD Ford based trend scout (rear lounge) for £25800 before haggling. this is a NEW 2012 vehicle

 

http://www.duemo-duelmen.de/fahrzeuge-im-angebot/duelmen.html

 

But probably to small for you..but will give some an idea as how we are ripped of in the UK. I looked at some similar UK vans to this and I had to laugh...if that is a comfortable bed/ lounge arrangement, I simply dont get it... and paying 50k plus for a van with unhigenic carpet on the walls...well it simply beggars belief

 

new prices are not much more.....

 

EDIT: Links dont work properly.... you have to scroll through pages untill you get to Globecar.....

 

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Your a very brave man, I would be completely out of my comfort zone buying from Germany, I had hassle enough with a dealer 60 miles up the road once.

 

And to the other poster regarding the Campscout 636SB, it seems rarer than the proverbial rocking horse ****, and can only find new here in UK, so would be out of our price range in any event, but thanks anyway, maybe when our numbers come up, I might push the boat out and get two tickets this week ;-)

[Guest JudgeMental]

Mel B - 2012-01-23 7:15 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2012-01-22 7:09 PM

 

"On the PVC front - look at the Globecar Globescout (standard and style versions) which are similar to Eddie's Adria but in my view, better"

 

And why I suggested he look at both....I went to Dusseldorf with the intention of buying a Globecar but a few things changed my mind. Styling is very Germanic, but more importantly to us, it has a small fridge and rear bed not as good and does not fold up easily, so not as adaptable for carrying stuff as you have to more or less disassemble the rear bed frame... little things, but the devil is in the detail...

 

Not wishing to be pedantic, but I was referring to a particular model of the Globecar, you just mentioned the name of the manufacturer ... :D ;-)

 

I had a good look at the 'Style' version for quite some time, and it is a very nice van, however I agree the fridge is a bit on the small side. The bed on the other hand was a plus for us - we liked the fact that you can totally remove the cushions and frame so when wanting to use it for other things, such as moving furniture or taking stuff to the tip, it can be cleared of as much stuff as possible. We found the interior styling very pleasing and the shower in the 'hall' in front of the bed was good too - it meant the rear bed was a bit bigger and the dinette also had a bit more room than vans which have the shower within the washroom itself - this is only something you get on the Style version though, not on the standard one.

 

OK Sorry Mel but its the Germanic styling again...I could not live with a camper with portholes for windows :D Adria has large one way blacked out windows a real bonus....

 

also the small fridge would mean going shopping every day...out of the question. Adria kitchen area a bit better as well, as is standard ventilation. Bed MUCH nicer in the Adria...First van we have had with a domestic quality bed, and my back is ever so grateful. I lay on all of them for hours over 2 days at show with all the Germans laughing at me :-D

 

The distribution of tanks/boiler.... etc is very well thought out as well. does not sufffer the problem of eailky overloading front axle like some expensive UK vans*-)

 

at the end of the day what suits us is very individual decison, but I thought long and hard about this and happy with the van...except insulation not as good as Globecar, and main thing, kicking myself re not getting the 3L auto :-S

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

If this camper van, Motorhome malarky, was an exact science, there would only be one van on the market, now that's an interesting thought, think of the agonizing it would save us all from., me included. :-)

[Brian Kirby]

1footinthegrave - 2012-01-23 7:59 PM

 

Your a very brave man, I would be completely out of my comfort zone buying from Germany, I had hassle enough with a dealer 60 miles up the road once.

 

And to the other poster regarding the Campscout 636SB, it seems rarer than the proverbial rocking horse ****, and can only find new here in UK, so would be out of our price range in any event, but thanks anyway, maybe when our numbers come up, I might push the boat out and get two tickets this week ;-)

 

If the idea of LHD doesn't put you off, and you can see what you want in LHD form, why not talk to Bundesvan and see how much it would cost for them to bring one over for you. That eliminates the problem of dealing with a German dealer, and of having to arrange for currency, because they will arrange for you to visit to view it with them, fix the price with the dealer, then import it, register it, deliver it to your house, and you pay the whole cost in Sterling. At least, they did when we got ours. :-)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Dealers in any shape or form borne out of experience are enough to put me of Brian, but in any event need to be near enough for me to go and have a moan at in the event of a problem if there is nothing private I can source, the outfit with the Swift are quite nearby.

As for a left hooker, her indoors hates being on the wrong side once over the water and would be voting for it, but what I find is on the occasions I've hired a car abroad I find myself completely at odds with it, and always breath a sigh of relief when I get it back in one piece. Oddly I have never found being in a RHD in Europe a problem either, if anything quite the opposite is true for me, but thanks for the idea's. ;-)

[BGD]

OK - just a personal view Mike, but to help get your thinking clear, I would suggest:

 

Maybe consider fully why the enthusiasm/hangup (depending on your standpoint) about engine "performance" (by which I guess you mean acceleration and top speed) seems to be in danger of colouring all other judgements about your choice?

 

Some thoughts:

 

How many hours will you really actually spend driving it rather than living in it? My guess is that the habitation part of that time-equation is gonna be 100 times more than the driving bit.

3,000 miles a year? 4,000? In reality, that's very little driving. Certainly a tiny amount of time compared to all the time spent LIVING in/around it.

 

Roads in Britain are crowded.

Very crowded indeed. How often will you be able to thrash along at 70mph or more in your van, whichever one you choose? And why are you thrashing up and down boring motorways at those licence-points inducing speeds anyway, when tootling along on A roads/B roads is so much more interesting anyway?

 

In either case, what you are considering buying is a big, relatively heavy, box on wheels.

In my mind, if I'd wanted a high-performance, fast, and tight handling vehicle, I'd have bought a sports car. I didn't. I bought a wendy-house on wheels. Brilliant fun, but never designed or bought for adrenalin-generating speeds.

For me, motorhome driving is all about slow, gentle cruising and pootling, whilst enjoying the comfort and scenery of the trip.....that pootling, which is relaxing compared to the hassle and stress of trying to beat all the other Mondeo-rep boys to a heart attack up and down the M1, is exactly why I love driving our old-dog of a 1992 motorhome. It's a change in mind-set not to have to get to "B" from " A" 10 minutes than your previous best ever time.....I get that if I ever need it from riding my motorbikes.

 

Dunno how rich you are, but I'm not.

Driving fast, especially when driving a brick-like box, absolutely MURDERS your fuel economy.

If anyone next to you in the pub whines about the cost of road fuels, offer them an INSTANT 20% fuel cost saving, with NO upfront costs at all (maybe in exchange for them giving you half of that saving).

The answer?

Just cruise at 55mph instead of 70mph.

Up to about 50mph the biggest drag on fuel efficiency is rolling road resistance. But beyond that, air resistance takes over, and the engine has to work exponentially harder to gain/maintain each extra 1 mph.

Why give all that extra money voluntarily to the oil Companies/Chancellor?

Drive slower, and keep a LOT more of it. To spend on wine instead of course.

 

Dunno how much time you've got, but we've got lots.

Driving 100 miles at 55mph instead of thrashing along at 70mph is gonna take you maybe 15 mins longer. And save you maybe save you £5. A tax-free bonus of £5 for you personally, each and every 100 miles travelled.......for just 15 minutes of your time, whilst you arrive more relaxed, are safer, and enjoy the journey more. Driving more slowly and smoothly means that your MH will last longer, the engine, gearbox and clutch will last longer too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

For us, an analysis of the combination of these factors meant that comparing fuel economy/acceleration/top end performance between MH's was in the end essentially actually a really minor issue, compared to the features and benefits of the habitation side of the equation.

 

Cheers,

 

Bruce.

 

 

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

I think what Brian suggests a good idea. BUT only if your heart is set on the Globecar. Incidently Hymer now have a new near identical model in the Car 372

 

http://tinyurl.com/6va5u8q

 

I would use Bundesvan, and nearly did last time. At the time Nick offered a pretty good PX on my EuraMobil as well.

 

Its simply a question of if you have decided the 636 is for you, if you have, there are loads available, pretty sure you would get one delivered for approx £30,000. exchange rate good at the moment....I would not have a Swift if it was given to me.

 

Have a look at some on mobile.de, pick a couple and let Nick at Bundesvan give you a quote. you get a better van at a good price can even get a 3 litre for the money.....

 

http://tinyurl.com/73c7aa3

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Yes Judge,

I was going to see the Escape this very day, but I'm now going to pause and take stock and maybe contact the folk you suggest and see what they come up with, and more worrying is the outfit with the Escape seem to be over eager to see my van ! !

 

And to BDG....

 

Perhaps me using the expression " goes like stink" has created the wrong impression. We have a 700 mile round trip to Dover ( France being our preferred destination ) call me impatient but it's a journey that can never be enjoyed, we normally travel overnight to get there, and like to get it over and done with ASAP the fuel consumption hit is worth it to me.

 

We are extremely lucky to have access to a friends second home near Bordeaux that we make use of ( and do some gardening and a few odd jobs, no gain without pain), but when you've done that journey more than a few times, Peage or non Peage it is a case of lets make some progress.

 

We live in Snowdonia, hills are a fact of life here, and I don't want to be constantly up and down the box, or seeing an impatient line of traffic behind me, there's nothing relaxing about that, so here is another reason to enquire about the power of the Swift 2.2. Our current 2.8 PVC laughs at hills even fully loaded.

 

I'm not in any sense a boy racer, but don't want to feel like I've gone back to my first "old dog" which was a noisy and slow luton top non turbo 1.9. and felt more like driving a AEC Mandator from my youth and covered thousands upon thousands of miles on A and B roads in my HGV days, so in the UK at least they now hold little appeal, and for the most part we don't do UK anyway. ;-)