Fiat Mobilvetta Euroyacht 100 weight limit

[Hilux]

Has anyone any experience of weight limits on these vehicles. The plated max on the V5 is 3850Kg. I have not yet looked at the vehicle plate for axle weights, but it should give the same max of 3850Kg.

 

Has anyone taken one of these vehicles to a weigh bridge when fully loaded?

 

H

 

 

 

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

Hilux - 2012-01-31 11:25 AM

 

....The plated max on the V5 is 3850Kg. I have not yet looked at the vehicle plate for axle weights, but it should give the same max of 3850Kg.

 

Sorry,no experience of the vehicle but(..and I'm probably stating the obvious here)the axle weights shown on the plate will(or should!) add up to more than your 3.85t,so as to allow for uneven loading...

[Guest ChrisB]

About 10 years ago I owned a Euroyacht 190.

It was on a Fiat Maxi (3850kg) chassis with the 2.8 engine - a very nice vehicle (some models were built on the Iveco chassis).

I think if you check under the bonnet you will find a plate listing the maximum front/rear axle loading. If you add them up it will almost certainly come to more than 3850kg.

 

Mine was in fact re-plated by Mobilvetta at 3500kg as I believe continental drivers find it more difficut to obtain licences for vehices over 3500kg. It would have just been a "paper exercise" to replate back to 3850kg but I didn't bother because even fully loaded I never exceeded 3500kg. I never carried a scooter or other heavy items in the garage.

[Brian Kirby]

I believe this was sold as a 6 berth van?

 

3,850 will be the legal maximum weight, or maximum allowable mass, (MAM) at which it is permitted to be driven.

 

What I think you need to know is its mass in running order (MIRO). MIRO is the weight of the van including all fixtures, but otherwise empty, plus the 90% full weights of its fresh water tank, fuel tank, and gas cylinders, plus 75kg for the weight of a driver. Then, MAM - MIRO = payload. For a workable payload on a 6 berth van, I think you will need in the region of 750kg, dictating a MIRO in the region of 3100kg, or less.

 

Be aware that you will need a Class C1 driving licence above 3,500kg MAM.

[Hilux]

Thank you for the replies and I am aware of what the plate should look like and how it sets out the max axle weights, MAM and max train weight.

 

My interest was whether anyone had experience of one of these Euroyachts fully laden and how it measures up to its rated MAM of 3850KG. My son is interested in buying one of these and we were talking about weight limits. He has a licence that will permit him to drive a vehicle that exceeds 3500kg.

 

We had a Pilote Galaxy some years back, on a Peugeot chassis, which had a MAM of 3300Kg and I had it re-plated to 3500kg and even at this higher rating it often exceeded both its max rear axle limit and MAM with two people and ready to go. We changed it for a Pilote on a Mercedes Sprinter 316 chassis with a MAM of 3800Kg. When this is ready to go on hols with two people, two bikes, 90% fuel, full fresh water, full gas tank, two folding bikes, sat dish, ladder, back box, chairs, awning, solar panel, and other stuff we generally carry it is just about on its max rear axle limit, but below Its MAM. However, the governing line is the rear axle limit which also matches the load carrying capacity of the rear Michelin Agilis tyres.

 

So keep the replies coming and thanks again.

 

H

 

 

 

 

 

[Hilux]

Thank you Brian for the info on MIRO and as you say a difference of 750Kg would be appropriate. However, with a 6 berth van and the potential for bodies to reach 450Kg it doesn't leave a lot of room for other things as I supect the MIRO might be higher than 3100Kg.

 

H

[Guest JudgeMental]

But what you consider fully laden and I consider fully laden can be a very different weight...

 

IMO best to take it to weight bridge empty but with gas, water tanks filled, and passengers. then you will know what spare capacity you have? you can always weigh yourstuff in boxes on bathroom scales before loading this should give you a rough idea .....,then best visit weigh bridge again fully loaded before travelling . You can always travel with just enough water for journey this often helps

 

I would think the van well over 3100kg *-)

[Derek Uzzell]

Euroyacht 100s are pretty rare in the UK, but I note that one is currently on sale at the Motorcaravan Centre at Whitchurch. This is LHD and the MAM is quoted as 3500kg. The EY 100 is not huge, but it won't be light either and I strongly suspect that a 3500kg MAM version would be tight weight-wise fully-loaded if the owner exploited the vehicle's full storage capacity.

 

I believe the maximum axle-loadings for the 3850kg MAM 'maxi' chassis are likely to be 1850kg(front axle) and 2120kg(rear axle), with maximum gross train-weight of 5200kg. Those figures would remain unchanged if the vehicle had been re-plated to 3500kg MAM.

 

At 3500kg MAM, you'd probably need to take care not to exceed the MAM. At 3850kg MAM, you'd possibly need to take care not to exceed the rear-axle limit.

[Hilux]

I have been to see this vehicle as my son showed an interest in buying it. It is in reasonable condition for its age. However, the underbonnet plate gives a MAM of 3500kg and the chassis is a Fiat I was told. However, the salesperson told me that the V5 shows the vehicle as 3850kg as a private HGV. Normally with an uprating above the base vehicle plate there is a tandem plate by the manufacturer of the motorhome or by some other chassis modification company. This has been my experience with two Pilote motorhomes that have been uprated from 3300 to 3500kg and from 3500 to 3800kg. However, for the vehicle that I viewed I could not find this plate. I looked under the bonnet, near the cab doors, and near the side entry to the van body. It might have dropped off of course.

[Guest JudgeMental]

unless it can be re plated to say 4200Kg it is not a practical camper ...certainly not for six!

 

My 3300kg panel van has amore then 400kg payload.....

[pepe63xnotuse]

Hilux..

I assume then,that other than what's shown on the V5(3850kg) the seller hasn't got any supporting documentation to verify any "re-plating"?..

 

We had a slightly different problem when we bought our current van,as although it had been re-plated(or reinstated?)to 3850kg and had both the 3500 Renault plate and the 3850 Trigano plate fitted,the V5 only showed it as 3500kg!

..and no amount of phone calls,emails,letters,photographs of the uprated plate or visits to the local dvla office,helped when it came to getting the V5 altered..

After months of being given loads of conflicting(..and just plain wrong!) info' from dvla and generally being messed about,it was only after I applied to Trigano's main office in France and obtained a certificate showing that it was "type approved"(their words)for 3850kg,that they finally corrected the V5..

 

IF your son does go for the van,get him make sure the dealer chases up some supporting documentation first,as it will save him a lot of messing about..

 

Playing devil's advocate,I suppose as there's no sign of any plate showing 3850,nor any documentation,I suppose there is even the chance that it is still actually 3500kg and that the 3850 on the V5 in just an error?...It's certainly worth getting it sorted out before he goes too far.. :-S

 

Having said that,there's only the two of us in a 4 berth(with no bikes or scooter etc)and sometimes we struggle,rear axle loading wise,with the 3850kg.... :-S

[flicka]

I would want to go a step further than previous posters.

I would insist the Dealer sort the Weight problem / discrepancy before even laying a deposit on the Van.

 

Due to the Van's age, it could turn into a long running saga for an individual to sort out, with DVLA.

From the info given, it could also create Insurance difficulties in a worst case scenario.

 

Is your son's Licence valid greater than 3500kg.

[Hilux]

To return to my own situation with a Pilote Galaxy on a Merc Sprinter chassis it is registered as PLG -3500kg. This is in line with the Merc plate which gives the weights as Front 1750Kg Rear 2240Kg MAM 3500Kg. The rear tyre limit matches the rear axle limit as each tyre has a maximum permitted load of 1120Kg. The pilote PTAC (MAM) plate gives a maximum of 3800kg but no specification on axle limits. So regardless of the PTAC Pilote chassis upgrade it makes no difference to the permitted weights that that the back axle can carry as the overarching safety limit comes from the tyres.

 

In running mode, when laden, I am within the axles limits and I do not exceed 3800kg total, but I am frequently marginally above 3500kg. Therefore, I am within the PTAC higher rating but actually above the 3500kg PLG taxation class which was taken from the original chassis registration.

 

If I upgrade to 3800 kg in line with the PTAC plate to re-classify as PHG (Private heavy goods) I will pay a lower road tax.

 

If I am stopped and weighed in a VOSA check I assume they will ignore the PTAC plate and go by the PLG limit and its relevant taxation class.

 

This situation is indeed confusing.

 

H

[Derek Uzzell]

Hilux - 2012-02-02 1:35 PM

 

To return to my own situation with a Pilote Galaxy on a Merc Sprinter chassis it is registered as PLG -3500kg. This is in line with the Merc plate which gives the weights as Front 1750Kg Rear 2240Kg MAM 3500Kg. The rear tyre limit matches the rear axle limit as each tyre has a maximum permitted load of 1120Kg. The pilote PTAC (MAM) plate gives a maximum of 3800kg but no specification on axle limits. So regardless of the PTAC Pilote chassis upgrade it makes no difference to the permitted weights that that the back axle can carry as the overarching safety limit comes from the tyres.

 

In running mode, when laden, I am within the axles limits and I do not exceed 3800kg total, but I am frequently marginally above 3500kg. Therefore, I am within the PTAC higher rating but actually above the 3500kg PLG taxation class which was taken from the original chassis registration.

 

If I upgrade to 3800 kg in line with the PTAC plate to re-classify as PHG (Private heavy goods) I will pay a lower road tax.

 

If I am stopped and weighed in a VOSA check I assume they will ignore the PTAC plate and go by the PLG limit and its relevant taxation class.

 

This situation is indeed confusing.

 

H

 

If you look at the Mercedes Benz EuroSprinter section on Page 22 of the Auto-Trail 2003 brochure on this link

 

http://www.auto-trail.co.uk/media//2/0/2003%20brochure.pdf

 

you'll see that the axle-loading maxima match your Galaxy's of 1750kg(front) and 2240kg(rear) and, also, like your Galaxy, the Auto-Trail models were being marketed with a MAM of 3800kg.

 

Although Mercedes Sprinter-based motorhomes were usually offered outside the UK with a 3500kg MAM (primarily for driving-licence reasons) this very often resulted in a low potential payload. Consequently, to best exploit the UK's less restrictive driving-licence rules and to provide an extra 300kg of payload potential, it was commonplace for UK motorhome converters to offer Sprinter-based designs with a 3800kg MAM - an option that was approved by Mercedes Benz. It was also pretty common for non-UK motorhome converters to offer, for Sprinter-based vehicles to be marketed in this country, either the choice of a 3500kg or 3800kg MAM, or just 3800kg MAM.

 

It seems from what you've said that your Galaxy was originally marketed by Pilote with the 3800kg PTAC option and, unless the vehicle has subsequently been officially 'down-plated' to 3500kg MAM, the Pilote PTAC weight will still be in force. That your Galaxy's MAM is recorded as 3500kg on its registration document may indicate that the vehicle has been down-plated but, just as likely, that it was originally wrongly registered using its Mercedes Benz documentation not Pilote's.

 

Unless there is another (ie. a 3rd) data-plate somewhere that clearly overrides Pilote's 3800kg PTAC plate, it's Pilote's plate that would 'count' if the vehicle were weighed during a VOSA check.

 

Similarly, if there's no sign of another data-plate and/or no documentation proving there has been a down-plating exercise after the vehicle was sold, your Galaxy needs to be correctly registered as Private HGV Tax Class 10 (£165 per annum), rather than its present Private or light goods vehicles (PLG) Tax Class 11 (£215 per annum).

[Hilux]

Thank you Derek. That reply is very interesting.

 

I have had the vehicle since almost new and I suspect the log book entry is an error as whoever registered it just looked at the Mercedes MAM 3500kg plate. There is no different "third" plate. Just the original Merc plate at 3500kg and two identical Pilote PTAC 3800 plates that appear under the bonnet and near the rear door.

 

Effectively, this uprating makes very little difference to the practical use of the vehicle as most of the carried weight is at the back. Under either the PTAC of 3800kg or the MAM of 3500kg it is the rear tyres that take the load and here the two rears have a max of 2240kg which aligns with the axle limit. The 3800kg PTAC does allow a bit extra in terms of distribution towards the front of the vehicle.

 

I accept that correcting the V5 would save money. However, apart from the Pilote PTAC 3800kg plates there is no other documentation to support the increase in MAM. What do DVLA normally require? I have never done this sort of thing.

 

H

[pepe63xnotuse]

Hilux - 2012-02-02 3:13 PM

 

I accept that correcting the V5 would save money. However, apart from the Pilote PTAC 3800kg plates there is no other documentation to support the increase in MAM. What do DVLA normally require? I have never done this sort of thing.

 

H

 

If you go direct to dvla before you get any documentation,you'll see from my earlier post,that it can be a real pain in the ar** to get this sorted....

We had months of "misinformation" from dvla..each time we contacted them,we we're told something different!

Ranging from...

"..just send the V5 in mate..and we'll correct just correct it.."

"..just send in photos of the new plate.."

"..go and get it weighed..and we'll enter that figure on the V5.."

 

None of which "worked"...

...and on taking the vehicle to my local dvla office(..with the hope they could just look at it!),after much head scratching,they told me I needed to..

"..take it to VOSA..to obtain a Design weight certificate.." ?!?

 

To which the guys at my Vosa office said "..a WOT?!?.." ??

 

The vosa guys then told me that dvla were just "fobbing me off" and said that I should just correct the V5 and send it off,along with photos and "..see what happens.." :-S

 

This I did(again),only for them to return my photos but this time,retain the V5!..Now saying that they needed confirmation from Renault!?

 

On contacting Renault..they,unsuprising were not to keen to get involved(saying that if the original plate says 3500,then that's what it is).

 

So after sending it off on 3 occasions(..with varying alterations/cover letters/photos),it was only after obtaining a certificate from Trigano in France and submitting a copy of that to Swansea,that they finally corrected the V5!...

 

SOoo..after all that, as it's got a "Pilote" plate showing 3800kg,I would advise to start with contacting them(quoting any VIN/build numbers)and seeing what they come back with,before you even think of getting dvla involved..

(..because to be quite honest,they were at best, ill informed and at worst just plain incompetent!)

 

Good luck.. ;-)

 

[Brian Kirby]

Simply stated, the converter's (Pilote's) plate rules. The vehicle is delivered to the converter only part finished, after which the converter finishes it, and re-plates it if, and as, necessary. He is responsible for ensuring that any change to the plated weight is suitable for the chassis supplied. There should be no need to go to great lengths with either DVLA or VOSA since clearly whoever originally registered the van made an error. The V5C should show 3,800kg. This assumes that the Pilote plate clearly shows the correct VIN (chassis number). PTAC (from memory) is Poids Total Authorisee en Charge: as you say equivalent to MAM.

 

If you can take the V5C back to the dealer who sold the van and show him his error, he should at least be prepared to write to DVLA, with a copy to you, explaining what has happened. Strictly, as it is his error, he should take on board the whole issue and you should not have to do anything.

 

If he prevaricates, at least get that letter from him, and then contact DVLA for further advice. If you look at section 7 of the V5C "Changes to Current Vehicle" you see that it says: "Only enter corrected or altered details". Look at the third line, box 22, "New revenue weight". Here, 3800 should be entered. As the original V5C carries an error, I'd guess the date that should be entered is the date of original registration - but it may need to be the date you make the application. DVLA should advise on this. Box 31, "Taxation class", needs to have "Private HGV" entered. (Go to the DfT website, and download "Notes About Taxation Classes", form V355/1, for details) You will need to return the existing tax disc for a refund, and pay for a new PHG tax disc to be issued with immediate effect, because the taxation class can only be changed when re-licencing. Watch out for the cut off dates for refunds. If whoever you speak to at DVLA gets lost with the process, just ask if you can talk to a supervisor, and keep working up until you get to the organ grinder! :-)

 

More important than getting the V5C sorted - and you should do this because you now know it is wrong and so is illegal - are the questions of your driving licence and insurance. Does you licence cover category C1: vehicles between 3,500kg and 7,500kg? If not, you are driving it illegally, because it is the plated weight (3800kg) that counts, and not the actual laden weight. If your licence is OK, then your use of the vehicle insofar as its plated MAM is concerned is fine: it is plated to be loaded legally to 3,800kg max.

 

However, do check that your insurer knows the vehicle is an HGV, because he is probably under the impression it is 3,500kg max MAM, and the failure to correctly declare its weight could render your insurance void.

 

Unfortunately, it seems you have a bit of administration to do! :-)

 

Providing your van is described at section D.3 "Body type", of the V5C as "Motor Caravan", I think your MoT, if over 3 years old, will remain extant. As I understand it, if the vehicle is so described at D.3, the test regime is as for a car - irrespective of its actual MAM.

[Hilux]

Thank you both for informative replies.

 

My licence does cover me for the higher rated vehicle for a few years yet. Also my insurance is for the PTAC weight at 3800 as I was particular about asking this question regarding breakdown cover which is often restricted to 3500kg.

 

H

[Brian Kirby]

Hilux - 2012-02-02 6:05 PM

 

Thank you both for informative replies.

 

My licence does cover me for the higher rated vehicle for a few years yet. Also my insurance is for the PTAC weight at 3800 as I was particular about asking this question regarding breakdown cover which is often restricted to 3500kg.

 

H

Good. Than it's just the V5C that needs changing. I note the van was not new when you got it. I'd still go back to the dealer, though (assuming you didn't buy privately), because he will have re-registered it in your name and, being a competent professional :-D, should have spotted the error made when the van was first registered. It's his day job, after all. :-(

[pepe63xnotuse]

I did actually start out by contacting the dealer...but they weren't all that interested and when pushed ,all they came up with was, "..bring it back and we'll get it weighed and issue you a weighbridge ticket..." ...Just how on earth that was going to help,I had no idea... :-S

 

The reason I contacted dvla was because that was the advice given to me from various forums..

(.."..I just gave 'em a call mate.." type of stuff *-) )

 

Thankfully the fact it had been plated as a 3850kg, was actually a bonus for us,as when we purchasd it we thought it was 3500kg...(..which we would've stuggled with,to be honest)..

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

Brian Kirby - 2012-02-02 6:36 PM

 

.... because he will have re-registered it in your name and, being a competent professional :-D, should have spotted the error made when the van was first registered. It's his day job, after all. :-(

 

8-) ...Good luck again,with that.. (lol) (lol)

[Hilux]

Well, yes I did buy privately in 2004 when the van was 14 months old and done just 3800miles. The first owners lost £14,000 on their purchase price and decided that they didn't like campervanning. It was bought by the first owners from Hayes Leisure at their Bath depot. So that will be my staring point.

 

It has been an interesting exchange and thank you all for your comments.

 

H

[pepe63xnotuse]

H..

 

Whilst you're chasing up the original dealer,I would certainly still be just firing off a well worded email to Pilote "HQ" on the continent...

 

After being messed around from this side of the channel(dvla,selling dealer,main UK dealer),I very was impressesd,when I had a response from Trigano's HQ in France,after just a couple of days..

 

..I think they'd sent out ( and I'd recieved) the certificate,within a week.. ;-)

[Brian Kirby]

Hilux - 2012-02-02 7:47 PM

 

Well, yes I did buy privately in 2004 when the van was 14 months old and done just 3800miles. The first owners lost £14,000 on their purchase price and decided that they didn't like campervanning. It was bought by the first owners from Hayes Leisure at their Bath depot. So that will be my staring point.

 

It has been an interesting exchange and thank you all for your comments.

 

H

Then I think you will probably have to DIY. You have no contract with Hayes, so they are not obligated to you, and the transfer of ownership will have been handled between you and the original owner with neither checking that the details were correct. However, there would be no harm asking Hayes if they would be prepared to write to you acknowledging their original error, as that should make matters a bit simpler with DVLA, and they have a reputation for their service.