French Safety Cameras: New Legislation for 2012

[Billy23]

I am a new motorhome owner and very new to this site, I do hope this has not already been posted (forgive me if it has) but I thought you guys might be interested in this new French law as the fine is very big like 1500 Euros. This is the Garmin link : http://www.garmin.com/uk/extras-camera-alerts/#france and I understand that TomTom have one as well.

 

Billy23

[nowtelse2do]

Welcome to the forum Bill. The camera issue has been discussed on here (Page 2 at the moment) but thanks anyway and keep posting :-D

 

Dave

[Rayjsj]

Welcome Billy,

Yes , this subject has been 'done to death' on here, as well as the other stupid French 'brainwave' of compulsory 'Breath testing Kits' in EVERY vehicle. The French police must have been very 'Bored' for someone to dream that one up. Evidently the 'kits' will be very cheap ?? and must be carried as well ALL the usual stuff, Flourescent Vests,Red triangle, spare bulb kit, First aid kit (all of which I find very sensible), the Breathalyser kit however, I consider 'Bloody stupid' and re-enforces my Grandads opinion of the French !! (not repeatable on a public forum ). ;-) Ray

[Symbol Owner]

See the other 'thread' Billy, keep posting!

 

Colin.

[Derek Uzzell]

Hi Billy

 

These are links to the two earlier forum threads that have touched on this matter:

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=26226&posts=7

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=26144&start=1

 

Despite Ray's confidence, I'm far from convinced that this subject has been "done to death" on this forum. Garmin's advice (as given on the link you provided) to users of Garmin sat-navs that merely deselecting the sat-nav's safety-camera alert option causes the device to become compliant with the revised French regulations seems to contradict the wording of the regulations themselves.

 

I'm going to contact Garmin to try to obtain a 100% iron-clad statement that their 'deselection' advice has been checked with the French authorities and given the seal of approval.

 

 

 

 

[Billy23]

Sorry I should have looked more before I placed it.

 

The yellow vests and all that stuff I am used to as I spend most of my time in Spain and my MH is Spanish reg.

 

Regards

Bill

[Brian Kirby]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-02-03 6:52 PM...........................Despite Ray's confidence, I'm far from convinced that this subject has been "done to death" on this forum. Garmin's advice (as given on the link you provided) to users of Garmin sat-navs that merely deselecting the sat-nav's safety-camera alert option causes the device to become compliant with the revised French regulations seems to contradict the wording of the regulations themselves.

 

I'm going to contact Garmin to try to obtain a 100% iron-clad statement that their 'deselection' advice has been checked with the French authorities and given the seal of approval..........................

I had a recent promotional e-mail from Garmin that prompted me to follow Derek's lead, as above, and contact them for further guidance on this. My e-mail to them was as follows:

 

"Your recent communication states that merely disabling the above data renders your devices "street legal" in France. However, you quote the French law as follows: "On 3 January 2012 the French government issued a new law that effectively bans all systems that are able to provide warnings of safety cameras (aka speed cameras)." Since a sat nav on which this data is merely disabled clearly remains "able to provide warnings of safety cameras" (that is to say the data can just as readily be re-enabled), can you confirm that you have verified with the French authorities that your advice, as above, fully meets their requirements? Many thanks and regards."

 

Their reply is as follows. Please note that this is not as the advice previously given:

 

"If you have previously downloaded a Cyclops Safety Camera subscription, onetime download, or free trial that covers France to your Garmin device, you can maintain compliance with French law by following the steps below:

 

Update your Garmin device's operating software using myDashboard

 

Download the updated Cyclops database, which now covers Dangerous Zones in France, rather than specific safety camera locations

 

If you are unable to update your device using myDashboard as directed above, you may also update it using the free WebUpdater application. If you update your device using WebUpdater, you must select the option to check for additional updates. On the list of additional updates, you will need to download and install any updates that mention translation files and proximity alerts.

 

The following subscriptions will include coverage of Dangerous Zones within France and will be compliant with French law, provided that the above updates have already been implemented on the compatible device being used:

 

Cyclops Dangerous Zones ? France

Cyclops Dangerous Zones ? France and BeNeLux Cyclops Safety Cameras ? Europe

 

Please note that some older devices will refer to individual Dangerous Zones as being ?Mobile Safety Camera Zones? after updating the device and downloading the new Cyclops database. This is still in compliance with French law since specific safety cameras will no longer be displayed in France and will instead be replaced with Dangerous Zone data."

 

I'm not 100% convinced by the last paragraph, but since UK drivers' devises are likely to be set to work in English, and it is not a pre-requisite for French police to speak English, I guess the subtlety of what these "older devices" call the zones should not cause problems. The rest sounds much more convincing than their earlier advice to just turn off the safety camera warnings.

 

However, it seems it would be wise to make the proposed updates before next visiting France.

[Mickt]

Does anybody know if TomTom have a similar update

[Patricia]

Mickt - 2012-02-08 10:26 AM

 

Does anybody know if TomTom have a similar update

 

When I updated my TomTom before leaving the UK mid-January all the camera locations in France and Spain disappeared, or so I thought. TomTom said I would be informed when the new safety zones were available. No email as yet but as I was travelling through France I was amazed to find that the camera positions were still being alarmed.

[kelly58]

Patricia - 2012-02-08 11:47 AM

Mickt - 2012-02-08 10:26 AMDoes anybody know if TomTom have a similar update

When I updated my TomTom before leaving the UK mid-January all the camera locations in France and Spain disappeared, or so I thought. TomTom said I would be informed when the new safety zones were available. No email as yet but as I was travelling through France I was amazed to find that the camera positions were still being alarmed.

I logged my tomtom onto the laptop and opened the system folder and deleted the FR poi's for camera alerts yesterday on a trip to Belgium I saw the radar signs in France  but never got a beep  , but I did for the Belgium ones , still waiting for the tomtom update e-mail,

[Keith T]

Patricia - 2012-02-08 11:47 AM

 

Mickt - 2012-02-08 10:26 AM

 

Does anybody know if TomTom have a similar update

 

When I updated my TomTom before leaving the UK mid-January all the camera locations in France and Spain disappeared, or so I thought. TomTom said I would be informed when the new safety zones were available. No email as yet but as I was travelling through France I was amazed to find that the camera positions were still being alarmed.

 

 

 

I have done the usual regular updates on my Tomtom for speed cameras, and for France it gives an option (or so I thought) to delete any exisitng locations. I wasnt sure about that as it keeps showing on updates,so e-mailed them to ask. They replied within a matter of hours stating the following aciton needs to be taken.....

 

'Open Tom Tom Home

Log on to your account

Connect the device to the computer and switch on

Click 'Manage my Account' in HOME then select the items on the device tab

Click on teh 'plus' icon next to speed cameras

Select thespeed cameras you wish to delete, then click 'remove'

 

The selected speed cameras are now completely removed from your Tomtom device.'

 

I havent done this yet, but will do so in the next few days, but what I still cannot fathom is how you can demonstrate if need be to the 'authorities' (ie Gendarmerie!) that you don't have the speed cameras on the SatNav - I am not aware on any 'menu' for this on the unit itself,so am I missing something?

 

Whilst I have always found the replies to e-mails are quick and sort of helpful, I think the information on line, or even when the manua lis printed out, is somewhat lacking in clarity and detail. For instance, I have found that there is a Micro SD slot on my unit (?),but can find no info on what to do with this, or what can be put onto a Micros SD card, or how to use it, how it would show on teh unit etc. Any assistance with this would be welcomed, as long as it is in laymans terms,,,,,,,!

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian Kirby - 2012-02-07 7:34 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2012-02-03 6:52 PM...........................Despite Ray's confidence, I'm far from convinced that this subject has been "done to death" on this forum. Garmin's advice (as given on the link you provided) to users of Garmin sat-navs that merely deselecting the sat-nav's safety-camera alert option causes the device to become compliant with the revised French regulations seems to contradict the wording of the regulations themselves.

 

I'm going to contact Garmin to try to obtain a 100% iron-clad statement that their 'deselection' advice has been checked with the French authorities and given the seal of approval..........................

I had a recent promotional e-mail from Garmin that prompted me to follow Derek's lead, as above, and contact them for further guidance on this. My e-mail to them was as follows:

 

"Your recent communication states that merely disabling the above data renders your devices "street legal" in France. However, you quote the French law as follows: "On 3 January 2012 the French government issued a new law that effectively bans all systems that are able to provide warnings of safety cameras (aka speed cameras)." Since a sat nav on which this data is merely disabled clearly remains "able to provide warnings of safety cameras" (that is to say the data can just as readily be re-enabled), can you confirm that you have verified with the French authorities that your advice, as above, fully meets their requirements? Many thanks and regards."

 

Their reply is as follows. Please note that this is not as the advice previously given:

 

"If you have previously downloaded a Cyclops Safety Camera subscription, onetime download, or free trial that covers France to your Garmin device, you can maintain compliance with French law by following the steps below:

 

Update your Garmin device's operating software using myDashboard

 

Download the updated Cyclops database, which now covers Dangerous Zones in France, rather than specific safety camera locations

 

If you are unable to update your device using myDashboard as directed above, you may also update it using the free WebUpdater application. If you update your device using WebUpdater, you must select the option to check for additional updates. On the list of additional updates, you will need to download and install any updates that mention translation files and proximity alerts.

 

The following subscriptions will include coverage of Dangerous Zones within France and will be compliant with French law, provided that the above updates have already been implemented on the compatible device being used:

 

Cyclops Dangerous Zones ? France

Cyclops Dangerous Zones ? France and BeNeLux Cyclops Safety Cameras ? Europe

 

Please note that some older devices will refer to individual Dangerous Zones as being ?Mobile Safety Camera Zones? after updating the device and downloading the new Cyclops database. This is still in compliance with French law since specific safety cameras will no longer be displayed in France and will instead be replaced with Dangerous Zone data."

 

I'm not 100% convinced by the last paragraph, but since UK drivers' devises are likely to be set to work in English, and it is not a pre-requisite for French police to speak English, I guess the subtlety of what these "older devices" call the zones should not cause problems. The rest sounds much more convincing than their earlier advice to just turn off the safety camera warnings.

 

However, it seems it would be wise to make the proposed updates before next visiting France.

 

Brian

 

Thanks for contacting Garmin.

 

I had hoped that the reply you received was a definitive answer, but I'm still not 100% sure. Garmin's reply repeats the advice on the Garmin's main English-language website, but the 'deselect' option is still shown on the French section of Garmin's website

 

http://fr.support.tomtom.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5565/?locale=fr_FR

 

and, being logical, it's French drivers who will most need accurate advice.

 

Similarly, on TomTom's website , it appears to be suggested that 'deselection' produces compliancy.

 

http://fr.support.tomtom.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5565/?locale=fr_FR

[Losos]

Patricia - 2012-02-08 12:47 PMNo email as yet but as I was travelling through France I was amazed to find that the camera positions were still being alarmed.

 

Oh Patricia, that must have been a worry, still I know you drive so well that no Police would ever think of stopping you ;-)

 

I did manage (eventually) to update my Garmin maps and I'm hoping the camera positions will be removed.

 

I only drive from the Chunnel up to the Belgium border on the A16 (E40) so I don't need camera or danger zone information thankfully.

 

ETA:-

I have in the past considered turning right at Dunkerque and heading down past Lille but I'm not going to even think about that now!!!

 

 

 

[Patricia]

Keith T - 2012-02-08 5:38 PM

 

Patricia - 2012-02-08 11:47 AM

 

Mickt - 2012-02-08 10:26 AM

 

Does anybody know if TomTom have a similar update

 

When I updated my TomTom before leaving the UK mid-January all the camera locations in France and Spain disappeared, or so I thought. TomTom said I would be informed when the new safety zones were available. No email as yet but as I was travelling through France I was amazed to find that the camera positions were still being alarmed.

 

 

 

I have done the usual regular updates on my Tomtom for speed cameras, and for France it gives an option (or so I thought) to delete any exisitng locations. I wasnt sure about that as it keeps showing on updates,so e-mailed them to ask. They replied within a matter of hours stating the following aciton needs to be taken.....

 

'Open Tom Tom Home

Log on to your account

Connect the device to the computer and switch on

Click 'Manage my Account' in HOME then select the items on the device tab

Click on teh 'plus' icon next to speed cameras

Select thespeed cameras you wish to delete, then click 'remove'

 

The selected speed cameras are now completely removed from your Tomtom device.'

 

I havent done this yet, but will do so in the next few days, but what I still cannot fathom is how you can demonstrate if need be to the 'authorities' (ie Gendarmerie!) that you don't have the speed cameras on the SatNav - I am not aware on any 'menu' for this on the unit itself,so am I missing something?

 

Whilst I have always found the replies to e-mails are quick and sort of helpful, I think the information on line, or even when the manua lis printed out, is somewhat lacking in clarity and detail. For instance, I have found that there is a Micro SD slot on my unit (?),but can find no info on what to do with this, or what can be put onto a Micros SD card, or how to use it, how it would show on teh unit etc. Any assistance with this would be welcomed, as long as it is in laymans terms,,,,,,,!

 

I updated my TomTom (GO 720) yesterday and followed the instructions as per your post (note that the instructions differ according to the model) . Hopefully all are deleted now but I will not know until next week's trip to the local town. TomTom's update to "danger zones" is still not ready although they are encouraging me to renew my subscription to speed cameras. Not sure I will bother with this now as I usually only drive in the UK and France.

 

Re their emails - I had a problem with the battery on my model which meant that unless plugged into power the device closed down within minutes. I sometimes forgot this when driving and lost all help, usually at critical junctions! Email to TomTom produced the answer that the battery could not be changed so necessary to buy a new model. I was not impressed. With son-in-law's advice and know-how bought replacement battery on Ebay for under £10! Now works perfectly.

 

Re the micro card - I thought mine had all the maps and information on it (??) Not much space left so not sure if I could replace with one of more capacity. Does anyone know the answer?

 

Finally, thank you Losos for your confidence!!!! It would have been S...'s Law though wouldn't it?

[Derek Uzzell]

Losos - 2012-02-12 11:31 AM

Patricia - 2012-02-08 12:47 PMNo email as yet but as I was travelling through France I was amazed to find that the camera positions were still being alarmed.

 

Oh Patricia, that must have been a worry, still I know you drive so well that no Police would ever think of stopping you ;-)

 

I did manage (eventually) to update my Garmin maps and I'm hoping the camera positions will be removed.

 

I only drive from the Chunnel up to the Belgium border on the A16 (E40) so I don't need camera or danger zone information thankfully.

 

ETA:-

I have in the past considered turning right at Dunkerque and heading down past Lille but I'm not going to even think about that now!!!

 

 

I'm not sure that simply updating the mapping on a Garmin device will automatically bring the safety-camera alerts into line with the latest French regulations - you may need to have a Cyclops subscription as well.Garmin's UK advice seems to be unchanged - update to 'Danger Zones' or disable the alerts option before/while driving in France. See:http://www.garmin.com/uk/extras-camera-alerts/http://www.garmin.com/uk/extras-camera-alerts/#franceI note that there's a CyclopsFranceData file on my nuvi 1340 and I'm tempted to delete or rename it to see if that kills French camera alerts. However, it's a .gpi file and I'm wary that doing this would mess up the system. I'll try to ask Garmin, though their inquiry form and my iMac don't seem to get on very well.

[Derek Uzzell]

Losos

 

Assuming your Garmin sat-nav is similar in principle to my nuvi 1340, you may be able to detect whether or not the French safety-camera infomation was updated when your maps were.

 

When I select Tools - Settings - System - About - Extras and Safety Cameras, I end up with a number of Cyclops-related entries, one of which is headed "Cyclops France Data". In my case, this has a date of Dec-20-2010 (in fact all seven of the Cyclops-related entries on my device have that date). I updated the mapping on my sat-nav in July 2011, but the Cyclops files show no date indications of being altered after December 2010.

 

If you check the dates of your sat-nav's Cyclops entries and the date of the Cyclops France Data entry is pretty recent (ie. late-2011), then there's a strong likelihood that you've now got the 'Danger Zones' update. If the date on your Cyclops France Data entry is prior to, say, mid-2011, then you've probably still got the original 'safety-camera' file.

[Brian Kirby]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-02-12 12:21 PM........................I'm not sure that simply updating the mapping on a Garmin device will automatically bring the safety-camera alerts into line with the latest French regulations - you may need to have a Cyclops subscription as well..................

I'm pretty sure this is correct, Derek. The implication of the Garmin advice I reproduced refers to the Cyclops database as being what carries the camera information. I can't confirm, because my Nuvi has no such database. I just have to rely on the eyeball, windscreen, and luck (plus avoidance of main roads) speed camera avoidance technique! :-)

 

If I'm correct, the camera databse will not be "embedded" in the map information, but will function like a POI set, with a default proximity alert for each camera, so it becomes a kind of floating overlay on top of the mapping. That would allow the cameras database to be updated independently of the mapping, which seems to me to make sense, as it probably changes with much greater rapidity. Otherwise, one would have to update the whole map set every time they moved, removed, or installed a camera. Updating the maps takes FAR too long to play that game! :-)

[Guest ChrisB]

The Cyclops Speed/Safety POIs are a separate subscription. If your subscription ended before December 2011 then you will have been left with the old French and other speed camera POIs (which will never be updated unless you take out a new subscription) and not the latest "Danger Zone" offering.

The Cyclops camera POIs reside in the same folder as the custom POIs - I should know as I accidentally deleted them (or rather Garmin's POIloader software did).

[Derek Uzzell]

ChrisB - 2012-02-12 5:09 PM

 

The Cyclops Speed/Safety POIs are a separate subscription. If your subscription ended before December 2011 then you will have been left with the old French and other speed camera POIs (which will never be updated unless you take out a new subscription) and not the latest "Danger Zone" offering.

The Cyclops camera POIs reside in the same folder as the custom POIs - I should know as I accidentally deleted them (or rather Garmin's POIloader software did).

 

Assuming that you had the safety-camera alerts feature turned on, did you use your Garmin sat-nav with the Cyclops files deleted and, if so, what was the effect., please?

 

I've sent an inquiry message to Garmin asking if deleting the FranceCyclopSample.gpi file in my nuvi 1340's POI folder might cause software problems, but it would be helpful to know from someone with deleted Cyclops files what effect this produced.

 

I suppose I could remove the UK Cyclops file and check the effect while driving in this country. At least then I could replace the file if it caused problems. For now, I'll wait to see what Garmin says.

[Keith T]

Patricia

Have now done the 'removel' as per Tomtom e-mail, and gone back into the computer after doing so, and the French camera list no longer exists - though how to prove this on the unit itself I still don't know

.

As to the Micro SD card, I have not put one in, so everything is on the hard disc within the unit, and like yours is almost full. I am still unsure of how/what the Micro card will do!

 

[Losos]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-02-12 2:22 PMLososAssuming your Garmin sat-nav is similar in principle to my nuvi 1340, you may be able to detect whether or not the French safety-camera infomation was updated when your maps were.When I select Tools - Settings - System - About - Extras and Safety Cameras, I end up with a number of Cyclops-related entries, one of which is headed "Cyclops France Data". In my case, this has a date of Dec-20-2010 (in fact all seven of the Cyclops-related entries on my device have that date). I updated the mapping on my sat-nav in July 2011, but the Cyclops files show no date indications of being altered after December 2010.If you check the dates of your sat-nav's Cyclops entries and the date of the Cyclops France Data entry is pretty recent (ie. late-2011), then there's a strong likelihood that you've now got the 'Danger Zones' update. If the date on your Cyclops France Data entry is prior to, say, mid-2011, then you've probably still got the original 'safety-camera' file.

 

Derek, a big thank you for the above, I will print off you rpost and try to check my 'Cyclops' data - prior to reading this thread I had no idea about Cyclops and still not totally 'with it' but as I say I'll follow instructions and check my device.

 

Unlike many of you wide ranging French travellers my French route is just from Belgium past Dunker que to the tunnel. I know it pretty well now and if push comes to shuve I'll just switch off and hide the device where the Police can't find it.

 

The French law seems to be flawed, I mean what would happen if you had just bought a SatNav, it was still in it's box, unopened, but with the speed camera POI's in it, if it was in your vehicle would you be guilty??????

 

I appreciate the time you've spent on this Derek.

 

[Guest ChrisB]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-02-13 10:19 AM

 

 

Assuming that you had the safety-camera alerts feature turned on, did you use your Garmin sat-nav with the Cyclops files deleted and, if so, what was the effect., please?

 

I've sent an inquiry message to Garmin asking if deleting the FranceCyclopSample.gpi file in my nuvi 1340's POI folder might cause software problems, but it would be helpful to know from someone with deleted Cyclops files what effect this produced.

 

I suppose I could remove the UK Cyclops file and check the effect while driving in this country. At least then I could replace the file if it caused problems. For now, I'll wait to see what Garmin says.

 

I was new to the way Garmin handled POIs (including safety cameras) so have learned the hard way.

I'm pretty sure there would be no problem in deleting any of the Cyclops safety POIs (after all I deleted the lot), but now always copy files to the laptop before deleting them.

Apart from their "proximity" settings (which you can include with any POI file or individual entry - there are instructions on the FAQs on the Garmin website) I don't think there is anything special about the Cyclops POIs.

You can download a trial version of the new French Danger Zones offering - which in theory could be used in addition to the earlier Speed Camera variation.

[donna miller]

Slightly off topic, but where do you stand if you use one of the many atlas's and maps that now show fixed and mobile camera locations? :-S

[Patricia]

Keith T - 2012-02-13 10:53 AM

 

Patricia

Have now done the 'removel' as per Tomtom e-mail, and gone back into the computer after doing so, and the French camera list no longer exists - though how to prove this on the unit itself I still don't know

.

As to the Micro SD card, I have not put one in, so everything is on the hard disc within the unit, and like yours is almost full. I am still unsure of how/what the Micro card will do!

 

Gosh, how thick can I be? I have just investigated the card slot only to find a dummy card in it - cannot believe that I have never looked before. I thought all the map etc. information was on it - obviously not! I have done a bit of research on the TomTom site and found that you can use several types of card which it says is for downloading further maps. Maybe POI's can be put on it? Thanks Keith for bringing this to my attention.

[Losos]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-02-12 1:21 PMI'm tempted to delete or rename it to see if that kills French camera alerts. However, it's a .gpi file and I'm wary that doing this would mess up the system. I'll try to ask Garmin, though their inquiry form and my iMac don't seem to get on very well.

 

Derek, in case you iMac and their enquiry form are still not co-operating I thought you might like to see a response I got from Garmin this afternoon:-

Quote "It is true that a new law has passed in France banning use of safety
camera alerts. The map update would not have removed this data. You can
however remove this data from your device using the steps below:
1.      Connect the device to the PC
2.      Click Start/ Windows (Ignore on Mac)
3.      Click Computer/ MyComputer (Ignore on Mac)
4.      Open the Garmin Disk Drive
5.      Open the Garmin Folder
6.      Open the POI Folder
7.      Delete the France Cyclops File." Unquote

 

Right now I'm still so happy at getting my maps updated I don't want to play around with the device anymore!!! I'll keep an eye on your posts (here and on other threads) and maybe do it latter.