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Guys help me out here please


michele

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This is on a swift Escape696 . I just cannot for the life of me see what they are saying re converting the DD into a L shaped lounge . I know I am silly at the best of times , I would of uploaded a picture but I can't seem top get on with that anymore .

 

I need a DD as most of you know we have 4 Disabled children so I need to strap them in whilst on our travels.

When the children are not with us which I admit is rare I was looking to convert the DD after eating into a more comfy lounge . I was looking at the picture (sorry I can't add ) and figuring out that the TV could go at the back of the passengers head and one of us could sprawl out on the sofa part and the other would have to sit at the DD . Then I saw the specs below .

 

Please can someone explain how it goes from DD into L shaped . Must be real simple but then so is my brain

 

 

Below taken from internet.

 

 

While we're on the subject of the dinette, the seats are very comfortable, and the inclusion of a facing sofa and clever seat extension mean it can be converted into an L-shaped lounge that will easily accommodate six people. The lounge table has a swing-out attachment to provide sufficient space. We were very impressed with the sturdy table, which can even be bolted into the floor to stop it moving while in transit.

 

 

The seat extension does obstruct access to the cab, but movement between kitchen and lounge is not affected.

 

 

Thank you in advance

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Hi Michele,

 

If you give us a clue where your quote cam from we'll see if we can help.

 

Can you post the link to the website?

If not then when you are on the page click in the address bar at the top of your browser window and the address will turn blue, then right click and a menu will appear, click 'copy'.

Now start a reply to this post and in that right click and select 'paste'.

Simple :-D

 

Keith.

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Hi Michele. It is actually fairly straight forward and maybe you are thinking U shape instead.

 

Anyway, the front diner seat gets pulled out to meet the couch across the passage way to cab blocking it off. You will ( should/would) probably have be supplied with a square cushion to fil in the gap. The back rest for the seat again wil be made from using an extra cushion supplied although in some arrangements you use the coach/settee back, swing it round and use the cushion removed (back rest of front dining seat) and spare cushion as backs for the settee. You end up with an L shape at front and rear dining seat does not change and table remains. The table should have an extension fill in piece so you can extend across the passage area so you can sit on settee and reach it comfortably to eat and provide table for the person sitting in what was passage to cab. Does all this make sense.

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Brambles - 2012-02-03 5:25 PM

 

Hi Michele. It is actually fairly straight forward and maybe you are thinking U shape instead.

 

Anyway, the front diner seat gets pulled out to meet the couch across the passage way to cab blocking it off. You will ( should/would) probably have be supplied with a square cushion to fil in the gap. The back rest for the seat again wil be made from using an extra cushion supplied although in some arrangements you use the coach/settee back, swing it round and use the cushion removed (back rest of front dining seat) and spare cushion as backs for the settee. You end up with an L shape at front and rear dining seat does not change and table remains. The table should have an extension fill in piece so you can extend across the passage area so you can sit on settee and reach it comfortably to eat and provide table for the person sitting in what was passage to cab. Does all this make sense.

 

I closed my eyes and tried to imagine it and YES by jove I think I have it hahahaha.

 

Do you think this van is any good or maybe just to cheap . I being honest do not like the bunk bed bits anyway and even when we had small kids I wouldnt entertain it but in saying that, I assume they could (the bunks ) take an adult .

The boy is only 12 BUT he can manage the top bunk and that way we could use the bottom bunk as storage for two wheelchairs .

Am I talking nonsence, will this van take it, is it worth the money ? maybe, I think its cheaper than our normal van so slightly worried that it wouldnt be around in 10 years .

Just cannot for the life of us find anything other than Bessie 799 which is the best option we have seen so far . Does anyone else know of anything else . Flicka has helped me alot .

 

I guess I am looking for something made of good quality not tacky and 6 berth that makes up like our old bessie but instead of it having the fixed bed down on the floor I want a garage model for the(wheelchairs) and a high back bed . Idont want much do I ..

 

 

P when I say makes up like our old Bessie what I mean is no silly cushions all over the place that you are having to fit into holes and then when the bedsa re made up you end up with this bit digging in your back all night ..Bessacarr was ever so good at having no lumps and bumps when pulled together the lounge seats

 

I cannot see any other way of carrying two wheelchairs without a garage , we have thought of towing but ..... thats another story and its not us really .

 

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The 3rd photo from the bottom of the following webpage

 

http://motorhome-hire.uk.com/motorhome%20details.htm

 

shows the Escape 696's seating in 'L-shaped' format.

 

It arrangement seems to comprise just an in-fill base-cushion that sits on a platform with support-legs. There's no sign of a matching back-rest in the photo and - looking at the 696's floor-plan - it might be impracticable (or unpleasantly expensive) to provide one. OK if you need to feed (or seat) a lot of people, but the person perched on the in-fill cushion had better remember not to lean back too far!

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Thanks Derek,

 

I am not sure and will have to look into it more but, from looking at it the idea was to fix a TV to the panel behind the passenger seat and lounge (both of us ) without using the DD but that don't look like its going to happen . Silly me I thought that they were saying that the DD turned into a L shaped lounge .

enabling us to put the tv there and both relax . I cant see where else the TV could go as on the other wall the cupboard would stop it .

 

Might sound pathetic this worry re a TV but until you are locked in the van for various reasons ie kids are ill today you can't appreciate it .

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Hi Michele

 

I think your problem with the Escape 696 will be the width of the Garage Doors for the Fixed Wheelchairs.

The Rear Bunks are singles

"Rear Bunk (Upper) Length 1.96m, Width 0.75m

 

Rear Bunk (Lower) Length 1.93m, Width 0.73m"

 

But the Escape 696 should be on the Swift stand at Excel

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The Chausson Flash 25 has a somewhat similar layout to the Escape 696 and (according to my French 2012 Chausson brochure) can also be obtained on a 3650kg MAM chassis like the 696's. I note though that not all of the Flash 25's seats have 3-point safety-belts.

 

These rear bunk-bed designs normally incorporate an arrangement where the lower bunk can be displaced to gain extra vertical space in the garage. The choice is either two bunks and a narrow low garage, or one bunk and a narrow high garage. As flicka warns, the width of such a garage may well inhibit storage of bulky wheelchairs.

 

It's stating the obvious I'm afraid, but accommodating two adults and four children comfortably in a lightish, smallish (under 7m long) motorhome is never going to be easy, and disability requirements are going to make that challenge harder.

 

Browsing through the "Buyers'Guide" pages at the back of MMM magazine reveals a small number of 6-berth/6 safety-belted passenger-seats/garage models, but they are usually neither small nor inexpensive. For example, Burstner's Argos 747-2 G

 

http://www.buerstner.com/uk/motorhomes/alcove_models/argos/floor_plans.html

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Some models that look to have the sort of load capacity/layouts that may be suitable.

 

Two a A type, the rest are large luton bodied vans.

 

All claim 6 belted seats and six berths, some with bunk beds, some with variants on rear bed to give either a transverse bed over a garage or longitudinal singles over a garage.

 

All luton models are over 3M tall, so will cost extra on toll motorways, all vans are over 3,500kg MAM, one or two are "tag axle". None are cheap!

 

My assumption re payload is that you would need about 500kg for occupants and about another 500kg for the rest, so anything with less than 900kg won't be practical.

 

First up, Derek's Burstner Argos 747-2 G. 5,000kg MAM, 700kg payload - unworkable! Fiat.

Dethleffs Globetrotter XL-I 1780-2. 5,000kg MAM, 598kg payload - unworkable! Fiat.

Dethleffs Globetrotter XXL-A 9000-2 6,700kg MAM, 1,490kg payload - OK. Iveco.

Dethleffs Globetrotter XXL-A 9800-2 6,700kg MAM, 1,490kg payload - OK. Iveco.

Eura Mobil Activa Style 770 EB. 5,000kg MAM, no payload data, presumed tight! Fiat.

Hobby Sphinx A77 EM. 5,200kg MAM, 980kg payload - workable. Iveco.

ITINEO SB 720 heavy. 4,250kg MAM, 1160kg payload - workable. Fiat. A-class.

Laika Kreos 5001 SL. 5,200kg MAM, 788 payload - tight. Iveco.

Rapido Serie 10 (any) 5,000kg MAM, payload 640kg - unworkable! A-class. Fiat.

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Derek & Brian , Thanks as per usual. I tried the burstner website but for some reason it won't load the 360 maybe the weather so off to look.

Brian thanks for all them can I push it one more time. Do you think any of these will be at Excel? we can't travel allover due to the kids and babysitters .

 

So Excel or Eof E ?...

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Brian Kirby - 2012-02-04 1:19 PM

 

...My assumption re payload is that you would need about 500kg for occupants and about another 500kg for the rest, so anything with less than 900kg won't be practical...

 

All Continental-built motorhome payload data will have factored in allowances for the weight of a driver, fuel, water and gas, so a 900kg payload requirement would surely be overkill for 4 children and 1 adult as passengers, plus their luggage/wheelchairs? If 50kg was allowed for the driver's 'stuff, that would stiill leave 170kg of 'payload' per passenger.

 

I accept that there needs to be a realistic payload limit below which a motorhome would become 'unworkable' for Michele's purposes, but 900kg seems an excessive requirement to me.

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Guest JudgeMental
Mel B - 2012-02-03 6:56 PM

 

Hi Michele

 

Euramobil have been doing this sort of lounge conversion for years:

 

Euramobil lounge

 

Yep...In our van you could remove the L shaped bit. It was just a matter of removing cushion and wood base and slide out lower wall...we removed the wall anyway and used space underneath for shoe storage...

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Derek Uzzell - 2012-02-05 10:03 AM

 

Brian Kirby - 2012-02-04 1:19 PM

 

...My assumption re payload is that you would need about 500kg for occupants and about another 500kg for the rest, so anything with less than 900kg won't be practical...

 

All Continental-built motorhome payload data will have factored in allowances for the weight of a driver, fuel, water and gas, so a 900kg payload requirement would surely be overkill for 4 children and 1 adult as passengers, plus their luggage/wheelchairs? If 50kg was allowed for the driver's 'stuff, that would still leave 170kg of 'payload' per passenger.

 

I accept that there needs to be a realistic payload limit below which a motorhome would become 'unworkable' for Michele's purposes, but 900kg seems an excessive requirement to me.

Sorry if that "unworkable" seemed a bit perfunctory! I think I should perhaps have said tight, not unworkable. Michele said she was looking for a van as a long term solution, so I took all occupants at 75kg, (12 stone approx) since the children will obviously grow, and due to their disabilities, may tend to become heavy.

 

I have no idea what their support appliances etc weigh, but imagined they might be quite heavy. Michele had been concerned about getting the wheelchairs through the boot door, so I assumed they may also be quite heavy.

 

I haven't checked how each manufacturer I listed has done their EN 1646-2 payload calc but, from past experience, I know that some take fuel, water, and gas at 90% capacity, while others use 100% for some, or all. German made vans tend to quote gas on 11kg aluminium cylinders, some only on one cylinder even when the locker will tale two, whereas we more commonly use steel cylinders of 13kg capacity. So, even for the EN 1646-2 compliance the differences between the most "honest" presentation and the most "optimistic" can reduce payload by 50kg, or more if fresh water capacity is greater than 100 litres.

 

I know Michele has a penchant for the Alps in winter, so was also thinking of additional clothing and maybe snow toys etc, all of which add weight.

 

So, taking the above, and looking at the Burstner Argos (£80K new UK) with a published 700kg payload, removing the uncertainties as above would potentially reduce this to 650kg. Then deduct 5 passengers @ 75kg = 375kg, leaves 275kg for food, liquids, cooking utensils, clothing, wheelchairs, books, guides, toys, levelling ramps, toilet cassette contents, etc etc, which I thought was too tight to cater for Michele's circumstances as I was imagining them.

 

So, on the basis that the van will be huge whatever its payload, and will inevitably cost a bucketload of cash, and that one can seldom have too much payload :-) (especially when residual axle limits are unknown!), my very rough rule of thumb conclusion was they somewhere around 900kg was a comfortable starting point, and much less needed to be treated with great care. So, of the luton bodied vans, that really leaves only the two Dethleffs XXL models or the Hobby Sphinx with reckonably adequate payloads, and the ITINEO SB 720 A-class as the other possible runner, providing it is on the "heavy" chassis (but I don't entirely trust their claimed payload, as it seems to imply an improbably light body on so large a van). On this basis either the Burstner Argos or Laika Kreos might work but, IMO, would need careful evaluation against known loads and working axle limits (and possibly chassis options) to be sure.

 

Since (if I remember) Michele has driven double decker buses, I don't think the size of any of these vans will daunt her, and I assume she still has a licence to drive vehicles over 3,500kg MAM, so none of them should present her with problems on that score.

 

Don't expect it will help her that much, but Southdowns currently have a used Dethleffs Globetrotter XXL in stock at about £65K. It is on the earlier Iveco base, and I couldn't see what its MAM or payload were.

 

Michele, you asked about EXCEL. I doubt if these very large vans would be there, since they are some way from the most popular options. The only way to find out will be to contact Dethleffs UK, or Hobby UK, to ask if they know of any presently with UK dealers, or if they propose having one at EXCEL themselves. I think you'd have to go to Germany to view. Even then, if you have a look on mobile-de for new vans, you'll only get two Sphinxes and six Globetrotter XXL A9* models. Prices about €80K for the Sphinx and from €85K for the Globetrotters.

 

Not excluding UK made vans, but haven't found any that look viable on above basis.

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