Burstner Solano Roof Window Failure

[Drransom]

I posted the other day regarding our 2007 Burstner Solano roof window being ripped off whilst driving at approx. 50-60mph. It is the big front window that curves over the low profile roof, is attached at the front and lifts up from the back only. I viewed the window lifting up from the front ( I was the passenger!) holding on by the rear catches then disappearing rapidly. My view is it is clearly a failure of the hinge at the front. Our main issue was whether this was a warranty issue (we have a one year warranty with a dealer having bought the van 2nd hand).

 

We have now had chance to speak to both our insurer and the garage. The insurance company says it would be covered upto £1500 (the damage is £3-4000) but in their opinion the item was not for purpose and the dealer should be liable. The dealer came back with the quote (also very poorly stating it would be higher if we went through insurance than paying ourselves, this is why our insurance premiums are getting higher). It was only after we went back to the garage with the insurers view that they suddenly came up with 'there is conclusive proof the safety catches were left open therefore it is user error'.We know full well this is not the case and they are trying ' to get out of it'. Their proof is that the catch retainers inside the van were not damaged and would definitely have been in this instance. Our view is the retainers inside the van are the strongest part of the assembly , the catches on the window being just plastic would be more liable to bend and break. Especially as I witnessed the front of the window lifting curling upwards and then going, who know what happened to it then, it could have broken taking the catches with it sliding them out of their retainers. As some one else pointed out, with the design of the window , even if it was open surely the forward force of the van and the wind pressure would actually force the window shut and not lift it from the front.

 

The problem now is it is our argument against theirs.

I am now of the opinion I do not want this dealer to fix my van and want my insurer to take it elsewhere(they are not happy that the dealer said it would cost more through insurance). We have history with them, before we bought the van there was an airbag issue which they agreed to fix, after picking it up it was still faulty and it then took 5 weeks to fix!

 

We are happy to then pursue it legally.

 

Just wondering if anyone else can give us any info/previous experience with these windows.

 

Beginning to wish we'd stayed with our apparently 'budget market' Chausson and not gone for the upgrade to a Burstner. Not a single problem with the good old 'Flash 03'!

 

Sorry for the ramble.

 

>:-)

[Dave Newell]

I'm somewhat amazed and not a little intrigued as to (a) why it would cost more to do via insurance (smacks of fraud to me) and (b) why it will cost £3000-£4000 to replace a roof window.

 

D.

[Drransom]

I agree about the insurance aspect. Plus they have actually put that fact in writing to us, seems a little foolish, at the very least we could take it to the insurance ombudsman!

 

The cost is not just for the roof window, as the window came off, it or bits of it must have gone across the roof , cracked our other two roof lights and caused damage to the paint work. But yes we will see when we take it elsewhere.

[Brian Kirby]

I'm putting in a link back to your original post to avoid a lot of repetition: http://tinyurl.com/6n55enx

 

First some thoughts. Is the dealer in question a Burstner dealer? If not, I would suggest you take your van to one for an alternative price. The dealer should be able to tell you the proportion of his quote that arises from just the cost of the replacement parts. You will then get a better idea of how much is for parts, and how much for labour.

 

Have you approached Burstner UK over this? It was implied by the owner of the Delphin that Burstner acknowledged a problem with the windows, and his was not the only one. Have you tried contacting him? If you left click his name on the post I linked to about his incident, you will find his full name and a hotmail address. He hasn't been back on here since, but the hotmail may still be in use, so worth a try? Under the circumstances, if Burstner acknowledge a problem with these windows, they will be likely to have passed the liability on to their supplier, so may have negotiated an arrangement for these units to be replaced free, or at cost. After all, your van is only around 4 1/2 years old, so should still be within its water ingress warranty term - providing the inspections have been kept up and recorded. Big hole in roof = water ingress? Arguable?

 

Is the insurer in question your motorhome insurer? If so, have they sent a loss adjuster to assess the damage. If they haven't, how can they possibly know whether it was fit for purpose? Some investigation is required to be able to reach that conclusion. Just sounds like a "not me mate" opening shot. Lean on them, they have a contractual obligation to you to to repair accidental (presumably) damage, if they want to argue fault, tell them to pursue it with the garage owners insurer. Also check that insurance for where the £1,500 limit is stated, and make sure it is applicable to your circumstances. I would just add that the window could as easily have been damaged to the same extent by flying debris. Would that too be a case of not fit for purpose. What is insured is the risk of damage, not its cause (so long as it is not fraudulent).

 

On a 4 1/2 year old van it is unrealistic to expect everything to be "as new". Equally, it is unreasonable to say that pieces that just fall off are due to user error, unless they can prove that. As you say, their reasoning is entirely conjectural and is a long way short of proof. Your explanation, IMO, has equal force. The question of cost is odd. It has been the case for years that there are two prices for accident repair to cars. One for doing the job as specified by the manufacturer/insurer, and the other for a "quick and dirty" fix, sometimes by cutting corners, and sometimes because the repairer can do an entirely satisfactory job by using non-approved methods. It is a bit difficult to see how this could be the case with three rooflights and some scratches.

 

You have not said if the rooflight frames are intact and undamaged. If they are, it should only be necessary to replace the transparent domes. This should be possible, depending on the makes used. In 2005 Burstner were using Remis rooflights. Were they in 2007? If so, the domes alone should be replaceable. If they are Remis units, see if you can find Remis UK (Burstner UK should be able to tell you in both cases). There was a very helpful UK Remis agent back in 2006, but I don't know if he is still there. What will be interesting is if Burstner can tell you whether just the transparent dome for the cab rooflight can be replaced, or whether both dome and frame have to be replaced. If the latter, find out why. If it is because the design has been changed, that may give a clue that the original design did cause trouble, and Burstner should then accept part liability. If they refuse to consider that line, you won't be able to do anything about it, because you have no contract with Burstner.

 

But, the above musings aside, and far more important, your contract is with the dealer, and here you have the law on your side. I would, to some extent, forget the insurance and concentrate on the dealer. He sold you the van, and it is expected it will be fit for purpose and of merchantable quality. Rooflights that fly off in the night are not of merchantable quality. That bit is simple.

 

The question is whether it was fully and properly closed, or whether it is possible that even one of the catches may have not have been fully in the locked position. If it was not fully locked shut, flexing due to air pressure could caused it to disengage, overwhelming the other catch. That should have left evidence, and the dealer appears to be saying that there is none, and reasoning that because there is none, both catches must have been left open. Consider, you were on a motorway, in snow, when the dome flew off. I assume you had already driven some miles before this happened? Is it credible that you could have driven however far under the prevailing circumstances without a) becoming aware of a huge cold draught, and b) without the rooflight having flown open almost as soon as you set of, or at the very least, as soon as you reached motorway cruising speed? Doesn't seem a very watertight argument to me! :-)

 

It does seem a bit rough on the dealer, because it amounts to him becoming liable for a (apparently) manufacturer's design defect. How you will respond to that thought, only you can decide. You didn't construct the law the way it is: you just appear to be the victims of a design defect, for which the law puts the dealer in the firing-line. The way things are, that is just part of his business risk. However, if he is a Burstner dealer, the issue of who pays how much for what, should be argued between the dealer and Burstner, with the dealer, in the meantime, carrying out the repairs in the most cost effective way for him, but - because the van is your property - to your reasonable satisfaction, and without undue delay. He is not entitled to just do whatever he thinks adequate on a "take it or leave it" basis, and he is not entitled to make you await the outcome of his deliberations with Burstner.

 

If unsure, contact Consumer Direct, and they will put you in touch with your local Trading Standards bods who will be able to give better advice on exactly where you stand legally. If you have not already done this, you should write to the dealer setting out what happened, stating that you hold them liable for the repairs, and asking them for their proposals for carrying out the work. If the dealer continues to be unreasonable over the repairs you may have to sue, so it is important to make sure you do things in the correct way, or you may prejudice your case if things get to that point. Hopefully not!

[Guest pelmetman]

I'm not surprised that the cost is more expensive if you went via the insurance *-)

 

When I bought my works van brand new 12 years ago, a learn driver reversed into it at my first job after I'd collected it 8-)...............the damage was slight, but it was only 2 hours old to me.........anyway I left to the main dealer to sort out with the learner drivers Father.........who phoned me up a few days later apocalyptic at what his insurance company was being charged for the repair 8-)

 

Needless to say the insurance company sent down a loss adjuster and the bill was halved *-)

 

Its abuse like this which pushes up the cost of all insurance >:-(

[Drransom]

Thanks again for all replies and to Brian who has taken the time to write the lengthy very helpful response.

So a few responses to those.

The dealer is not a Burstner dealer, our nearest is a good 100 miles away, in the vans current condition and weather its probably not practical. We are trying to contact Burstner but are having trouble contacting anyone, I may try through a dealer if I have no further luck there. Though I did wonder if they would necessarily tell the whole truth and thus make themselves liable. e.g, 'Is there a problem with burstner roof windows'? 'Oh yes they fly of all the time'. 'OK can you pay the 4 grand to fix my van then'!! Maybe I'm too cynical!

 

I maybe made out the insurer to be an ogre but they have actually been very helpful, they have said it would be insured and have opened a claim but realised we had a slight dispute with the garage and that we should resolve that issue. In fact I don't know the full story as my husband has done something today which has resulted in our insurance company getting the van moved to a different repair centre(i'm intrigued to know why but he is not back yet) . The £1500 is the window maximum claim and we haven't been able to look into whether resultant damage will also be covered as we were not aware of this damage initially, or if it is per window etc. We have never claimed on any insurance in 20 years of driving so it's all a bit new.

 

The two broken domes that were damaged by the large window can be replaced without the frames. The large front window I suspect though the frame is attached where it tore the fixings off will require replacement of the whole unit, the remis blind was also damaged due to having to continue driving initially..

 

Yes we had driven a fair distance and at faster speeds than we were at the time , the night before we had been 20-30 miles, camped overnight(and I can assure you at minus 5 that window was never opened), then another 80 motorway miles before the incident. And yes I would have noticed a draught, indeed the first instance of a fault was that I noticed a sudden draught which made me look up , within 2 seconds the front of the window had curled upwards and gone!

 

I agree it is harsh on the dealer but it seems strange they never came back with 'user error' until we said we were looking into whether they were liable under the sale of goods act. Then when they hadn't bothered to contact us initially for 3 days since they had the van, suddenly we had e-mails and photo's claiming this was the cause!! It all seems very convenient for them. Plus if they set themselves up to deal with expensive items like motorhomes they also have to deal with them when they go wrong.

 

Have taken your suggestion to e mail the other burstner owner , so await to see if he will reply.

 

Thanks again.

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

what cowboy insurance company is this please? So that we can all avoid it in the future!

 

not your argument at all? it is down to the insurance company to get van repaired and if they can claim money from dealer so be it.... last time I looked an insurance company has to put your vehicle back into the condition it was before the accident. that is your contract unless you have signed up for a max £1500 figure which would be pretty daft as motorhomes are not cheap to repair

 

edit: I wrote the above without reading your post .I see the £1500 figure is probably for windscreen. you should in this case be OK with the insurers, Hekis will be counted in with associated damage I would think.

 

I would get the window permanently fixed as this "flying off" seems to be a unique Burstner feature! *-)

[Brambles]

You really do need to speak to Burstner for any history re the windows, and if it is a polyplastic window possibly them as well. Historically polyplastic has had probems with the adhesive used on windows for Hymer, Burstner and some Rapidos now it seems. In sunlight the adhesive breaks down apparently. So my question would be did your window outer and inner skins delaminate and cause the failure of the hinge. If so then note there have been recalls for this in the past.

 

So do not listen to me or quote me, but contact Burstner UK or PolyplasticBV and see what they say.

 

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Julie

 

The potential downside to pursuing the repairs via the insurer, is the impact on your NCD - unless that is protected. This claim, if pursued, may also affect the premiums on any other vehicles you insure. If settled as being only windscreen/glass it will not, usually, affect your NCD, but will be limited to the sum stated by the insurer, probably to a maximum payable on any one incident, irrespective of how many windows that amounts to. If you argue these are not windscreen/glass items, but body damage, then the larger excess will apply, and your NCD, including on other vehicles, will be at risk. I think this may be a case of being careful what you wish for! :-)

 

I would still pursue the Burstner route to see what they say. I see that Camper UK are presenting themselves as Burstner UK, tel 01522 697070. However, when I had dealings with Burstner, they had a UK office in Bishop Auckland, Co Durham, on 01388 537960. The man to speak to was Ian Knowles. I just tried that number, and it answers as Burstner UK, and the voice sounds remarkably like Ian Knowles, so maybe he is still there!

 

In the meantime, do be aware that, if you want to recover costs against the dealer who sold you the van, you must give him the opportunity to carry out the repairs. If you deny him that opportunity, you substantially weaken any case you may have against him. As the fault appears primarily to lie at the door of Burstner, I think it would be desirable to get the van to a Burstner dealer, but ideally not until the dealer who sold it has refused, unequivocally, in writing, to carry out the repairs at his expense, and you have advised him of your intention to have the repairs carried out elsewhere and recover your costs from him. Ideally, you would then need to give him the time to reconsider his stance, before intervening further to place the repairs elsewhere.

 

This is not because only Burstner dealers can repair Burstners, but because they have a better chance of being able to bring Burstner into the frame and possibly benefit from an acceptance of at least part of the liability. Do you know who, originally, sold the van? It might be convenient if they were either a) the nearest dealer to you or b) had gone out of business so that there is no chance of them being involved. (Motorhome manufacturer's tend to write their warranties along the lines of car warranties, pan European, can take it anywhere for warranty repairs, whereas in practice it is only the selling dealer who will usually touch it, whatever the warranty says. There is little chance that this would be repaired under warranty (except that tenuous missing rooflight = water ingress argument!), but it would mean there could be no "why not take it back to the original seller" line from any other Burstner dealer. However, if it were taken back to the original seller, it may persuade them to be a little more attentive to pleas for assistance. Just a thought.

[Brian Kirby]

Brambles - 2012-02-10 5:56 PM

 

You really do need to speak to Burstner for any history re the windows, and if it is a polyplastic window possibly them as well. Historically polyplastic has had problems with the adhesive used on windows for Hymer, Burstner and some Rapidos now it seems. In sunlight the adhesive breaks down apparently. So my question would be did your window outer and inner skins delaminate and cause the failure of the hinge. If so then note there have been recalls for this in the past.

 

So do not listen to me or quote me, but contact Burstner UK or PolyplasticBV and see what they say.

Your suggestion makes good sense, Jon, because the hinge is apparently at the front of the rooflight, and the catches at the rear. So, had the catches failed (or been left open) all that should have happened would be the rooflight sucking open, a howling gale, and a load of snow blowing into the van. However, if the leading edge of the rooflight de-laminated, and the outer skin started peeling off, it would have exerted huge leverage on the inner skin, which is pretty well bound to be what the catches and hinges are attached to. That leverage would explain the flexing of the inner that was noticed, and also why the hinges failed, rather then merely holding the dome captive while it flapped up and down. Once the hinges go, the dome somersaults backwards in the slipstream, disengaging the rear mounted catches without damage. Excellent work Holmes! :-D

[johnnerontheroad]

May be worth joining the Burstner club they may know of others that have the same thing happen.

 

http://www.burstnerclub.org.uk/www.burstnerclub.org.uk/HOME_2.html

 

Dave

[Drransom]

Thanks again everyone and certainly some food for thought there.

 

Please don't think the insurers are at all being a problem, we go through a very well known motorhome insurer and they are so far very helpful. I think the confusion is our fault as we didn't even consider insurance at first(as I said no experience of any claims before) , our first thought was to take it back to the garage. In hindsight we maybe should have had an independent assessor first. This is why WE were having the argument with the garage and not the insurer.

 

Thanks Brian for making the insurance options a little clearer. I believe I haven't got protected no claims on the van ( an oversight on my part-whoops). However on the cars we have. I would wonder how much it does affect the premiums, after all its not actually an accident, we haven't hit anyone or caused an accident, its just damage to the living area of the motorhome, windows etc.

 

The de-lamination sounds interesting , unfortunately not being able to get the window back I assume we have no proof of this, though Brian's description pretty much describes exactly what happened!

 

Spoke to a well respected Burstner dealer today who claimed to know of no issue with the windows, however he could see how the window could potentially come off without causing any damage to the internal catches, though he felt this would be hard to prove.

 

Was thinking about the owners club, unfortunately it is mail based without any other contact details, so I would need to post off the membership form, so no possibility of a quick response. But will certainly get that started anyway. Plus will try the chap in Bishop Auckland too.

 

Not sure I agree our current dealer should repair it as I feel our relationship has broken down, plus with the seemingly endless repair of the airbag am concerned we may not get the van back any time soon. They have claimed in writing they do not believe they are liable and they may not be, but they also have never once said to us that they will contact Burstner to see if there was any issue leaving this all to us, surely the clout of a dealer asking them would be better than us.

 

I believe the van was originally bought from Timberland motorhomes in Lincoln ( not sure why, are the two companies linked?

 

Anyway we will see what tomorrow brings, just want it back, we use it a lot!!

[Guest JudgeMental]

They have told insurer about accident/incident so no claims is affected already *-)

[Drransom]

Don't agree. Neighbours crashed into my car twice ( 2 separate times- I know pretty bad drivers for neighbours, had to move house) Both incidents mentioned to insurer,both eventually settled by neighbour paying for damage. No affect on no claims or premiums.

[flicka]

Drransom - 2012-02-10 8:30 PM

 

I believe the van was originally bought from Timberland motorhomes in Lincoln ( not sure why, are the two companies linked?

 

Anyway we will see what tomorrow brings, just want it back, we use it a lot!!

 

 

For info

Timberland were indeed Burstner dealers , until about 2/ 3 years ago.

Alas they no longer hold that brand Dealership, since their financial change around.

[Brian Kirby]

Drransom - 2012-02-10 10:32 PM

 

Don't agree. Neighbours crashed into my car twice ( 2 separate times- I know pretty bad drivers for neighbours, had to move house) Both incidents mentioned to insurer,both eventually settled by neighbour paying for damage. No affect on no claims or premiums.

It's that old adage, I'm afraid, Julie. It is a "no claims discount", not a "no blame discount".

 

If you claim, and they pay out, and they do not subsequently recover their costs in full, you lose your NCD, unless it is protected (or unless the claim was for glass, which seems generally to be stated not to affect NCD). It may be possible to pay back to the insurer what the claim cost them to settle, and so expunge the claim and reinstate your NCD but, from memory, this has to be done before the next renewal date. I don't think this is a universal right, however.

 

A claim changes your driver risk profile. How/whether your particular claim would do this I know not, but when you claim, protected NCD or not, the insurer is likely to view you as a higher risk, and may put a premium loading on your policy. So, there is the possibility that you would lose NCD, gain a loading, and that loading may also be applied to other vehicles you drive (because you are obliged to declare the claim when you renew, even if it arose while driving a different vehicle insured with a different company) even if they have protected NCD. The ways of insurance companies are many and mysterious! :-) You would be wise, IMO, to explore the possible cost consequences with your insurer before you make any final commitment. Remember also that your premiums remain higher until you earn back the full rate of NCD, and gain back the claim free driver profile. It can add up.

[Brian Kirby]

Drransom - 2012-02-10 8:30 PM........................Not sure I agree our current dealer should repair it as I feel our relationship has broken down, plus with the seemingly endless repair of the airbag am concerned we may not get the van back any time soon. They have claimed in writing they do not believe they are liable and they may not be, but they also have never once said to us that they will contact Burstner to see if there was any issue leaving this all to us, surely the clout of a dealer asking them would be better than us.

 

I believe the van was originally bought from Timberland motorhomes in Lincoln ( not sure why, are the two companies linked?

 

Anyway we will see what tomorrow brings, just want it back, we use it a lot!!

Julie, my point about the dealer who sold you the van is only that he is legally liable for what he sells (Sale of Goods Act etc). So, if you want to recover costs against him, whatever your opinion of him, and whatever he has said so far about his opinion as to his liability, he has to be given the opportunity to carry out the repairs. That would require you to write to him, advising him formally that you consider the goods he sold you contained a latent defect for which he is legally liable under the various bits of consumer legislation, and asking him how he intends to make good all the resulting damage. If you don't do that, and you decide you want to recover your costs from him in court, it is probable that you will prejudice your case by giving him the defence that you denied him the opportunity to make the repairs at less cost to himself than you are claiming. This is where the Trading Standards advice would be valuable before you go too far. If you have already decided you will not be seeking recovery against him whatever happens, clearly this consideration will not arise.

 

One reason for going to a Burstner dealer for repair, is that they will source the parts directly off Burstner's parts database, identifying your van from its WBU, to be sure the parts, and the paint, correctly match those originally fitted. Independent repairers are unlikely to have this degree of access, so the parts may not be right when obtained, leading to delay, and their costs higher, because they seem likely to have to source at least the cab rooflight from a Burstner dealer, as it will probably be a Burstner special. These points are worth exploring with whoever presently has the van and, I would suggest, with a Burstner dealer, or Burstner UK.

 

If you have already decided you will bear the costs yourselves, and merely want to proceed with whoever offers the fastest repair, none of the above will apply. However, even under those circumstances, I would be inclined to find out the costs of the individual parts, and the labour charge for fitting them, plus the cost of paintwork repairs. The problem with a van with roof damage, especially in winter, is that is clearly a "distress repair", and that can encourage higher costs, on the basis that you appear the captive of whoever has the van. If you can at least nail down the parts costs, ideally from more than one source, you stand a better chance of being able to haggle over the labour element.

[Keith T]

HAving had our Burstner now for almost 5 years we have had one or two matters delat with under warranty, and I must say the our dealers plus Burstner in germany are excellent - even now there is an issue with paintwork which means a big job is being done under warranty and I cannot prasie them too highly!

I certainly would recommend you go through an authorized Burstner dealer. You don't state what part for the country you live, but for my puposes I still travel some 180 miles to get to my supplying dealer, and it has proved well worth while. All parts used in your motorhome are listed in details on the Burstner database, and as for another dealer supplying the needed parts, I would not go down that route at all - we have just had to replace the flyscreeen on the rooflight in the toilet,and my dealers were able immediately to find the part number required, but suggested i contaced a local caravan/motorhome dealer as it may have been 'standard', and therefore would save a long journey, or the cost of sending it to me. I took the van to one of the nearest (non Burstner) dealers, they had a look, and said 'no way,, its not standard UK and we can't get it! Go back to your own dealer' - which we did. They got it from Germany in two weeks, and as we happeend to be in that area a couple fo weeks ago, called in and they fitted it whilst we waited. Again excellent service.

 

On teh question of Burstner Owners club, yes a possible suggestion, but I have to say that some while back we had an issue which I wanted to explore via this route, and whilst I emailed the address given for the technical person, I got not reply, even though I chased it some weeks later - and to this day have not heard anything about my query.I wouldnt let this comment stop you trying that route though.

[Mel B]

JudgeMental - 2012-02-10 4:50 PM

 

edit: I wrote the above without reading your post .I see the £1500 figure is probably for windscreen. you should in this case be OK with the insurers, Hekis will be counted in with associated damage I would think.

 

I too think the insurance maximum of £1500 will be for a windscreen, not windows (I've never heard of an excess on the habitation windows/rooflight in all the years I've been getting insurance!), so I think the insurer's employee is confused as to what it is that needs replacing?

[Drransom]

Ok I agree about it going through Burstner, but if we go through insurance how do we insist on that.? A bit concerned today that Nationwide rang us ready to pick up the vehicle. you may all know Nationwide are a car repair company!! Unfortunately the brokers or insurers couldn't do anything over the weekend as no one is open! So we are now stuck in limbo, the van is at a garage we are in dispute with, the insurers seem set on sending it somewhere innappropriate. It is a £35000 motorhome and we want it fixed correctly!!

 

Thanks again Brian about contacting Don Kitson, he has replied. He said Burstner wouldn't admit any fault however replaced everything under warranty with no argument( a contradiction surely). The incident seems very similar to ours, he also suggests he felt there was maybe a faulty 2007 batch of windows. He has now fitted a fiamma wind deflector also.

 

Another laughable quote from our current dealer (which makes me not want them to fix it more) was that " We have driven this van on the motorway and the roof window did not fly off, therefore it is user error"!!! I would also like to reply to them " you told us the airbag was fixed and drove it out for us to pick up with the airbag warning light still on". Incompetence.

 

We are in south wales so the nearest Burstner dealer is Somerset or Gloucestershire.

[Keith T]

Drransom - 2012-02-12 2:57 AM

 

Ok I agree about it going through Burstner, but if we go through insurance how do we insist on that.? A bit concerned today that Nationwide rang us ready to pick up the vehicle. you may all know Nationwide are a car repair company!! Unfortunately the brokers or insurers couldn't do anything over the weekend as no one is open! So we are now stuck in limbo, the van is at a garage we are in dispute with, the insurers seem set on sending it somewhere innappropriate. It is a £35000 motorhome and we want it fixed correctly!!

 

Thanks again Brian about contacting Don Kitson, he has replied. He said Burstner wouldn't admit any fault however replaced everything under warranty with no argument( a contradiction surely). The incident seems very similar to ours, he also suggests he felt there was maybe a faulty 2007 batch of windows. He has now fitted a fiamma wind deflector also.

 

Another laughable quote from our current dealer (which makes me not want them to fix it more) was that " We have driven this van on the motorway and the roof window did not fly off, therefore it is user error"!!! I would also like to reply to them " you told us the airbag was fixed and drove it out for us to pick up with the airbag warning light still on". Incompetence.

 

We are in south wales so the nearest Burstner dealer is Somerset or Gloucestershire.

 

 

The Burstner dealer we have dealt with is the one in SOmerset and cannot recommend their warranty/service deparment too highly.

As to the insurance matters, depending who the ven is insured through, I would have thought they would accept your request that the whole work needed was dealt with by the Burstner dealers, as they will know exaclty what is needed.

Hope this helps, will send you a PM.

[Brian Kirby]

Drransom - 2012-02-12 2:57 AM

 

Ok I agree about it going through Burstner, but if we go through insurance how do we insist on that.? A bit concerned today that Nationwide rang us ready to pick up the vehicle. you may all know Nationwide are a car repair company!!

Basically, just talk to them. If they were going to send the van to Nationwide, I suspect either they aren't a motorhome specialist insurer, or whoever handled the query wasn't. You are right, a car/light van repairer would be unlikely to be able to handle the repairs and would probably struggle to source parts, leading to almost certain delay, and potentially unsatisfactory work. If that is explained to the insurer, at the right level, they should understand, and agree to let you be their guide.

 

Before heading for the Burstner dealer, I'd also talk to them, to ensure they would do the repairs themselves. They may not, but may sub-contract the work to a specialist with more extensive facilities. Nothing wrong with that if the dealer is in the ring, but it may be possible to take the van straight to the repair workshop instead of to the dealer, so may save a bit of time. All I will say, whoever does the actual work, is be prepared to manage the process yourselves, because if you don't, it is probable no-one else will! Then, you just may get an agreeable surprise!

 

Unfortunately the brokers or insurers couldn't do anything over the weekend as no one is open! So we are now stuck in limbo, the van is at a garage we are in dispute with, the insurers seem set on sending it somewhere innappropriate. It is a £35000 motorhome and we want it fixed correctly!!

 

Thanks again Brian about contacting Don Kitson, he has replied. He said Burstner wouldn't admit any fault however replaced everything under warranty with no argument( a contradiction surely). The incident seems very similar to ours, he also suggests he felt there was maybe a faulty 2007 batch of windows. He has now fitted a fiamma wind deflector also.

This repair is liable to take a while, because motorhome parts supply is very different to the supply of car parts. They will have to come from Germany and, although the Germans are very thorough, and Burstner has one of the better supply reputations, they aren't necessarily quick. Your van is likely to be off the road for several weeks.

 

Your van should still be within the overall Burstner warranty period. That is part of the reason for suggesting you refer it to a Burstner dealer. Only Burstner dealers are authorised to carry out warranty work, and only they can involve Burstner if they feel there is a latent defect to which the warranty should apply. Not very likely, I accept, but I still wonder how the integrity of the rooflight relates to the warranty on water ingress. This was not accidental damage, it just flew off and, as you have said, could so easily have caused an accident had it hit a following vehicle, or motorcyclist.

 

Another laughable quote from our current dealer (which makes me not want them to fix it more) was that " We have driven this van on the motorway and the roof window did not fly off, therefore it is user error"!!! I would also like to reply to them " you told us the airbag was fixed and drove it out for us to pick up with the airbag warning light still on". Incompetence.

Well, yes, but they are rattled (which is good) and are coming up with stupid excuses (which is also good, because it means they don't have any decent ones :-)). I wouldn't throw this at them in writing, but since they admit to driving the van on the motorway, I'd guess rather faster than you may have been driving, is it not possible the actual damage was done while they were driving it, but only materialised when you drove? It seems to me an equally fair point.

 

It may be that they know they are in the frame but are being leaned on by their insurer (I would assume they have some blanket insurance for such eventualities), or more probably their accountant, not to concede liability.

 

I would suggest taking a deep breath, steeling yourselves to be paragons of patience, and arranging a meet with their MD. Then, be prepared to explain very slowly and politely, that you expect them to take responsibility for rectifying the damage, and you can see no reason why this should involve you in any expense. However, since they are not authorised to carry out the repairs themselves, you wish the repairs carried out by an authorised repairer, who will guarantee their work (I believe backed by Burstner if Burstner parts are used - needs checking). Usefully, they have already stated how much they would charge, which seems to me to indicate they have already established the extent, as they see it, of their potential liability. Their quotation will, inevitably, have included an element of profit but, under the circumstances, one would expect that to be minimal for good-will purposes.

 

That seems to me to place them in a weak position. They have indicated £3,000 - 4,000. Take the lowest and assume, under the circumstances, as a goodwill gesture, they would do it at cost. They can't come up with a single good reason why they should not be liable. So, they seem to me be on the hook for at least £3,000, on their own assessment.

 

We are in south wales so the nearest Burstner dealer is Somerset or Gloucestershire.

Talk to them and see if they can give you a ball-park estimate of the repair cost. Parts cost should be easy if you give them to WBU, because it will take them to the build record of your van. Then, it is how many days (roughly) at how much per day for how many men. Stress that you aren't looking for a fixed price quote over the phone, but would be grateful for something rather better than a guess, pending inspection by them. However, in view of the distance it is not convenient to just pop over, and the dealer who originally sold the van no longer handles Burstner, so you can't go back there, but you want a proper job. You have been recommended to them because of their excellent reputation etc. Then see what they can give you.

[Drransom]

Thanks again we are nearly there! Keith and Brian have both been very helpful and we can only thank you both profusely.

 

The position we are in is we have contacted Ian at Burstner UK( yes he is still there in Bishop Auckland and still helpful) . He advised the Burstner dealer we would intend to use to contact the German factory. They have done this and though no longer under warranty they came back very swiftly with an offer as a goodwill gesture due to the nature of the incident. This doesnt cover near the full cost of repairs but makes a significant differnce. And bearing in mind we were not the original buyers and we have never even been to this dealer this I feel is beyond the call of duty. Even without the discount the estimate is far more competitive than the company we bought the van off which makes us think they were trying to rip us and the insurance company off even more!

 

We are now of the view we will definitely get Burstner to do the work and although we will have to take the van the 100 miles ourselves it will be worth the effort. We will then decide on what action to take regarding the company we bought the van off. So on Saturday we will be off to Somerset.

 

Maybe some companies just get customer service right. We are in our late 30's have had 4 motorhomes so far and are customers of the future for hopefully many years to come. Where are we likely to go when we finally change our lovely Solano or need anything fixed? Not the company 2 miles down the road, we'll make the effort and head off to Burstner. So maybe their goodwill gesture of the present will mean they get customers for life, not a bad business plan!

 

More hopeful of a good outcome now, just hoping it's ready for jubilee week our first definite thing booked!! But hoping to go away sooner. :-D :-D

[Keith T]

Glad to have been of some help, and hope it all works out OK foryou.

As to dealers, we've have some 5 motorhomes, all purchased from small 'main'dealers, but not 'muti outlet' ones. In all cases except one we have had excellent after sales service and built up a rapport with them. The only one we had a problem with was a total lack of customer service and went out of business shortly after anwyay!

We have had to travel some distance for after sales work, but have found this well worth while. OIn fact I would suggest a good aftersales service is almost more important than the sales side!!

Keep us poosted on your progress! Best of luck

Keith T

[Keith T]

Glad to have been of some help, and hope it all works out OK foryou.

As to dealers, we've have some 5 motorhomes, all purchased from small 'main'dealers, but not 'muti outlet' ones. In all cases except one we have had excellent after sales service and built up a rapport with them. The only one we had a problem with was a total lack of customer service and went out of business shortly after anwyay!

We have had to travel some distance for after sales work, but have found this well worth while. OIn fact I would suggest a good aftersales service is almost more important than the sales side!!

Keep us poosted on your progress! Best of luck

Keith T